VLADE GONE
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Vlade
"But for Buddy Hield, he has to look in the mirror and see what he does right and what he does wrong."
"But for Buddy Hield, he has to look in the mirror and see what he does right and what he does wrong."
I don’t argue that’s the type of team they have. I’m simply saying I don’t like watching that type of basketball. Period. So it should go without saying that I would be against hiring a GM that wants to assemble a team like that. Or play like that.
As for the way the game is played, really only the Warriors have been overly successful with it. And they are an anomaly that has two of the best shooters (three when KD was there) and also played top level defense.
When the Warriors did it, they were bucking the big man trend because they couldn’t match. And they happened to benefit from fortuitous timing when some HOF bigs were exiting or had recently exited the league with nobody close to them to replace.
But that doesn’t mean someone can’t buck the current trend by playing a skilled big that can dominante smaller players down low to the point of forcing them out of small ball.
Philly’s clearly got a player in Embiid (when healthy) that can do just that. If they commit to keeping him in the post.
The KINGS could try to build a team around a player like him. Clearly they had that same opportunity with Boogie Cousins but blew it with a myriad of blown draft picks and other player acquisitions. But who is to say it can’t be attempted again?
Like Bricklayer, I prefer to see a GM build a team in a more conventional manner rather than follow suit with the current trend. They can still shoot three’s like they’re doing now, but also punish teams that use 6’5” centers. Basically use a hybrid system.
And I don’t want to see them field g-league lineups for 3 consecutive years or more in an attempt to find capable players. Good GM’s and scouting departments can find players all over the draft and don’t have to reply upon having a top 3 pick for multiple years.
No Hinkie, no Morey! Find me a Sam Presti clone. I’d be far more ok with someone like him. He does things more conventionally while also understanding current day tactics.
As for the way the game is played, really only the Warriors have been overly successful with it. And they are an anomaly that has two of the best shooters (three when KD was there) and also played top level defense.
When the Warriors did it, they were bucking the big man trend because they couldn’t match. And they happened to benefit from fortuitous timing when some HOF bigs were exiting or had recently exited the league with nobody close to them to replace.
But that doesn’t mean someone can’t buck the current trend by playing a skilled big that can dominante smaller players down low to the point of forcing them out of small ball.
Philly’s clearly got a player in Embiid (when healthy) that can do just that. If they commit to keeping him in the post.
The KINGS could try to build a team around a player like him. Clearly they had that same opportunity with Boogie Cousins but blew it with a myriad of blown draft picks and other player acquisitions. But who is to say it can’t be attempted again?
Like Bricklayer, I prefer to see a GM build a team in a more conventional manner rather than follow suit with the current trend. They can still shoot three’s like they’re doing now, but also punish teams that use 6’5” centers. Basically use a hybrid system.
And I don’t want to see them field g-league lineups for 3 consecutive years or more in an attempt to find capable players. Good GM’s and scouting departments can find players all over the draft and don’t have to reply upon having a top 3 pick for multiple years.
No Hinkie, no Morey! Find me a Sam Presti clone. I’d be far more ok with someone like him. He does things more conventionally while also understanding current day tactics.
Agreed that his approach has changed and used to be different. I don’t align with where he is now.
But I disagree that he’s proven to be a good executive. His team has won nothing. Even with supposed super star players and former MVP’s. They should be winning 50+ games with players like that. And guess who drafted those players? Sam Presti!
Anybody could have won games with Yao, who he inherited and didn’t draft.
Take a look at HOU’s draft history since 2007. While it may be better than the KINGS (nearly every team can say that) it’s not exactly impressive either.
The Rockets have been largely built via free agency and trades. Tactics that are much harder to accomplish in SAC.
Not only do I not want to see a Rockets type team built, I don’t believe Morey has proven to be that great in the draft.
Sorry, I’ll just never be convinced of the money ball analytic method. It has some merit, but is replied upon far too heavily and Morey is the poster child of that.
But I disagree that he’s proven to be a good executive. His team has won nothing. Even with supposed super star players and former MVP’s. They should be winning 50+ games with players like that. And guess who drafted those players? Sam Presti!
Anybody could have won games with Yao, who he inherited and didn’t draft.
Take a look at HOU’s draft history since 2007. While it may be better than the KINGS (nearly every team can say that) it’s not exactly impressive either.
The Rockets have been largely built via free agency and trades. Tactics that are much harder to accomplish in SAC.
Not only do I not want to see a Rockets type team built, I don’t believe Morey has proven to be that great in the draft.
Sorry, I’ll just never be convinced of the money ball analytic method. It has some merit, but is replied upon far too heavily and Morey is the poster child of that.
Amen.
This is the only post anyone needs to read regarding Sam freaking Hinkie. You clearly get it.
From this point on I’m gonna ignore anybody that seriously considers that dude a competent GM, buys into his ridiculous g-league tanking tactic, or lobbies for him to land the position with the KINGS. I’ve read enough of that nonsesne.
This is the only post anyone needs to read regarding Sam freaking Hinkie. You clearly get it.
From this point on I’m gonna ignore anybody that seriously considers that dude a competent GM, buys into his ridiculous g-league tanking tactic, or lobbies for him to land the position with the KINGS. I’ve read enough of that nonsesne.
I think not selecting Donic is a mistake obviously. I have no doubt Divac regretted it inside but I think that the thing that makes it sad is that Luka is from Europe and Divac being from Europe where everyone thought that he know the talents there better than anyone and therefore would favor in selecting a European prospect more than Americans...but ended up picking Bagley was a surprise. Although he can justify his pick by claiming that that's what the Kings need and that they don't need another ballhandler. So on the one hand, you can't blame or fault the guy because who knew Doncic would turn out to be a superstar? But on the other hand, one can argue that you should pick the best talent on the board regardless of position. For that, i think Divac failed. I really thought he would select Doncic when it's time for the Kings to make a pick.
I agree with this. For years, this organization has thought they were just one player away from the playoffs. One player to fill a weak spot. First it was a SF. Then SG. Then a PF. The focus should have been on collecting talent, because they have been weak at every position. A lot of really good 2nd team players playing as low level starters.
I feel bad that not selecting Doncic will be Vlade's new legacy in Sacramento. All the goodwill he had as a player and as a Sacramento ambassador is still partially there, but this was such a big misfire for all the reasons you stated that it will follow him in any discussion for a long time regarding his time here.
If you are rating success by championship and nothing else maybe, but the league is littered with teams better than the Kings doing just that. Right now the Kings need to look at a) just not sucking and b) just not sucking quick enough to make sure this situation doesn't become as toxic as it's on the cusp of being right now. The answer is to look at what your players are good at and right, wrong, or indifferent it is that. Having to blow up a team including young top draft picks in years 2, 3, and 4 is ridiculous. Even for the Kings franchise. Build a foundation then start tweaking.
Until Bagley proves himself to be a core piece, we are actually in a really bad position. Look at Memphis, Phoenix, they are younger and probably better. I am pessimistic for this squad to go on. Without assets and picks, no free agents coming, we should look for talents in the draft. I don't think we have other choice.
I like those things too, but I'm tired of being content with just liking those things. I want a winner, not just likeable things. I don't have any faith that they will choose good replacements either. Why would I? What track record does the team have in making good decisions?
I'm frustrated, but that's life as a King's fan. As always, I'll still keep hope.
I'm frustrated, but that's life as a King's fan. As always, I'll still keep hope.
I read it more as he’s taking shots. Think its clear as day that Dumars is the new GM/main decision maker. And if the Kings brought on a new person, that dude would be younger than Dumars. Translation, there is no role for Karl to be angling for.
Reading btn the lines:
1. Dude thinks Vlade/Peja/Vivek weren’t focused on winning and there was no accountability. Grant used to say Vlade’s outside interests were varied and huge. There were also plenty stories of Vlade being MIA—preferring to have a COO run the Kings while he acted as a CEO for the big decisions. Plus the Boogie behavioral issues n the Kings refusing to allow Karl to trade him.
2. Karl obviously has axes to grind. N feels that Vlade/Peja were in over their heads—hence the indirect, but overt celebrations.
Reading btn the lines:
1. Dude thinks Vlade/Peja/Vivek weren’t focused on winning and there was no accountability. Grant used to say Vlade’s outside interests were varied and huge. There were also plenty stories of Vlade being MIA—preferring to have a COO run the Kings while he acted as a CEO for the big decisions. Plus the Boogie behavioral issues n the Kings refusing to allow Karl to trade him.
2. Karl obviously has axes to grind. N feels that Vlade/Peja were in over their heads—hence the indirect, but overt celebrations.
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I think a lot of folks in philly are happy now to have a seriously competitive team. Also a lot of folks in Sacramento are pretty unhappy to be out of playoffs for 14 years
Tanking guarantees nothing but it gives you the best odds to land a star level player. Odds say its significantly more likely to draft a star with a top 3 pick compared to lets say 8th pick. In order to draft top 3 you should enter the lottery as a bottom 3 team. Its just math and nothing more complicated.
It could've but when you give yourself the best possible odds for three years you usually get better results even if one year you happen to be unlucky
Vlade gets trashed because he made horrible decisions (for example the philly trade where Hinkie straight up embarrased Vlade) and he had a horrible strategy that didnt work (paying below average vets big money to desperately chase the 8th seed.)
You talk about luck a lot but we had huge luck to even be in a position to draft Luka. It was obvious then that Luka should've been the pick. If someone was stupid enough to think Bagley was the right pick over him, they shouldnt get paid to evaluate talent in this league. But basing your strategy to getting extremely lucky in a lottery when there is a generational talent available is not a viable startegy to me. If you want those type of players you need to give yourself the best possible odds for several drafts to get one.
If Hinkie does here what he did in Philly, we'll have extremely flexible cap situation that will allow us to get additional future assets and gives us a huge opportunity to sign good players once we are good enough to compete. We will find good players on team friendly contracts that are very valuable on the court and in trades. We would also have a lot added draft capital to keep improving the team even when the cap space is getting smaller. The idea isnt only just to lose games. Its about gathering future assets, remaining flexible and making sure you are competitive in the future.
I said it in here three years a go, our strategy to pay for vets and not getting any additional future picks was extremely stupid. Hinkie executed his strategy for three years, how is Philly now even when other GM's did horrible job after him? How good are we now after three years? Just as bad as we've always been and we have zero cap flexibility and zero additional future 1st round picks. I said that our strategy was short sighted. It might be funnier for an impatient fan to win 30 games vs winning 20 games for couple of years but in the long run there is no question which strategy is smarter.
Morey evaluated talent well by for example recognizing Hardens ability and thus getting a franchise player. He studied statistics and found a new way to gain a competitive edge. Ever since that Rockets have been serious contenders. I would be extremely happy if our GM did that type of stuff.
Also I'm not sure what your point is about defense but Hinkie drafted Embiid and hes a top 3 defender in this league and found Covington who is/was one of the best 3D wings in the league.
Tanking guarantees nothing but it gives you the best odds to land a star level player. Odds say its significantly more likely to draft a star with a top 3 pick compared to lets say 8th pick. In order to draft top 3 you should enter the lottery as a bottom 3 team. Its just math and nothing more complicated.
It could've but when you give yourself the best possible odds for three years you usually get better results even if one year you happen to be unlucky
Vlade gets trashed because he made horrible decisions (for example the philly trade where Hinkie straight up embarrased Vlade) and he had a horrible strategy that didnt work (paying below average vets big money to desperately chase the 8th seed.)
You talk about luck a lot but we had huge luck to even be in a position to draft Luka. It was obvious then that Luka should've been the pick. If someone was stupid enough to think Bagley was the right pick over him, they shouldnt get paid to evaluate talent in this league. But basing your strategy to getting extremely lucky in a lottery when there is a generational talent available is not a viable startegy to me. If you want those type of players you need to give yourself the best possible odds for several drafts to get one.
If Hinkie does here what he did in Philly, we'll have extremely flexible cap situation that will allow us to get additional future assets and gives us a huge opportunity to sign good players once we are good enough to compete. We will find good players on team friendly contracts that are very valuable on the court and in trades. We would also have a lot added draft capital to keep improving the team even when the cap space is getting smaller. The idea isnt only just to lose games. Its about gathering future assets, remaining flexible and making sure you are competitive in the future.
I said it in here three years a go, our strategy to pay for vets and not getting any additional future picks was extremely stupid. Hinkie executed his strategy for three years, how is Philly now even when other GM's did horrible job after him? How good are we now after three years? Just as bad as we've always been and we have zero cap flexibility and zero additional future 1st round picks. I said that our strategy was short sighted. It might be funnier for an impatient fan to win 30 games vs winning 20 games for couple of years but in the long run there is no question which strategy is smarter.
Morey evaluated talent well by for example recognizing Hardens ability and thus getting a franchise player. He studied statistics and found a new way to gain a competitive edge. Ever since that Rockets have been serious contenders. I would be extremely happy if our GM did that type of stuff.
Also I'm not sure what your point is about defense but Hinkie drafted Embiid and hes a top 3 defender in this league and found Covington who is/was one of the best 3D wings in the league.
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The fact that Vlade netted zero extra first round pick in 3 years is mind boggling. Memphis and Oklahoma show how a rebuilding job should be done. You don't use cap for useless free agents. You take advantage of a time that you don't need to chase for results to get more assets. Then when you want to hit a home run, you have the bullets.
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In retrospect, yes. And this is coming from someone who wanted the Kings to draft him. But Luka was also such the "consensus pick" that he was immediately traded for the guy selected at #5 and a conditional future pick. If anyone seriously thought he would be THIS good he wouldn't have been passed up by the first two teams (and immediately traded by the third, who selected him). Look, that pick (in retrospect, given the way things stand today) was blown. And it apparently cost Vlade his job.
(Who knows, maybe the Luke coaching selection did as well. I certainly didn't like that hiring process or it's result.)
But let's not go all revisionist history here about the draft.
And this isn't the spot to go into a deep dive about a player who was never on the Kings roster. There is a dedicated thread for that and you know where it is. Bleeding over of that topic into other threads (other than this one to a certain extent for obvious reasons) is going to be parsed quickly as it has been.
Luka isn't here and the guy who didn't select him in the draft isn't either any more. We are going to have to focus on the current team and where to go from here instead of constantly wallowing in the past. We do enough of that crap already with this team.
(Who knows, maybe the Luke coaching selection did as well. I certainly didn't like that hiring process or it's result.)
But let's not go all revisionist history here about the draft.
And this isn't the spot to go into a deep dive about a player who was never on the Kings roster. There is a dedicated thread for that and you know where it is. Bleeding over of that topic into other threads (other than this one to a certain extent for obvious reasons) is going to be parsed quickly as it has been.
Luka isn't here and the guy who didn't select him in the draft isn't either any more. We are going to have to focus on the current team and where to go from here instead of constantly wallowing in the past. We do enough of that crap already with this team.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...tisfaction-Will-Come-When-Kings-Start-Winning
Anybody hating on this guy should be punished Class act and will forever be loved. Than you got clowns like Boogie taking shots whenever possible
Anybody hating on this guy should be punished Class act and will forever be loved. Than you got clowns like Boogie taking shots whenever possible
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