Vlade Divac
- Thread starter VF21
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Heuge
Starter
No. Just reading from the link reported. It's been hard to forget that awful trade since we have been reminded every year for the last 5.
King Baller
All-Star
I like the trade with Hinkie's 76er's. Vlade in one fell swoop moved Landry and JT who for all intents and purposes were impossible to trade unless you paid the other team with assets. The assets were Stauskas, the first round pick and the pick swaps. If the Kings get out of the lottery none of those assets are of much value. That is the BET. The BET that the moves Vlade makes will put the Kings in the Playoffs.
Yes, but Embiid is out next year and Saric isn't coming over either. Those pick swaps won't end up being signficant.
Yes but I understand some of the criticism if we don't make the playofffs.
The problem with that is even if Philly is worse than us, we could still have to swap if we don't make the playoffs and get lucky in the lottery. Of course, this is the Kings we are talking about so luck is kind of irrelevant.
Even if the stars align and the Kings pick in the top 3, the Sixers will stink next year and their pick won't be too shabby either.
True
macadocious
Starter
Well, technically, that would be; unlucky.
King Baller
All-Star
Well technically it is only a Lottery pick if the Kings don't make the Playoffs. The other thing to keep in mind is what are the odds that Staukas and the player the pick brings would be better than Rondo and Bellinelli? Actually what matters is how good are they when the season begins? Vlade made this move for NOW when DeMarcus Cousins is in his prime.
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Livinthedream
All-Star
Check out @TonyXypteras's Tweet:
Vlade just said he got a lot of calls from teams trying to trade for Ben McLemore, but he didn’t want to trade him.
Vlade wouldn't trade Ben even though he was getting calls. I knew there was something about Vlade that I liked. The man recognizes talent.
Vlade just said he got a lot of calls from teams trying to trade for Ben McLemore, but he didn’t want to trade him.
Vlade wouldn't trade Ben even though he was getting calls. I knew there was something about Vlade that I liked. The man recognizes talent.
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S
sactownfan
Guest
Bill like everyone else is jumping the gun. Koufos is better than JT in my book. Marco is better than stauskas. Landry was totally useless. Rondo is a massive upgrade if hes a backup. Or if he regains his form is a total steal.
At the end of the day... while our moves weren't so flashy we didn't need them to be.... this team improved massively overall and became a playoff caliber team.... because the pieces are all addressing needs and should fit better.
Without our moves this team was dead in the water again.
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Gary
All-Star
Agree.. We couldn't go into the season with the same lineup we had last year (+ WCS) and expect to win. Wasn't going to happen. We needed big man help, PG help, defense and shooting. I believe we addressed everything we needed to address.
Koufos / WCS = defense and big man help
Belinelli / Butler = Shooting help
Rondo = PG help
Siranthony
Starter
Yes. Building through the draft is great. But at some point you have to jettison what's not working and build on what is. The timing is right to make that move. Also it takes away any temptation to tank this year for the draft. We are all in for the next few years.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Try this one on for size:
Congratulations to the Kings for trading a rookie bust, no picks that will ever have to be swapped, and a future pick in the 20s.
Because that's the outcome if the Vlade gambit works.
Padrino
All-Star
the internet has become such a deleterious and toxic breeding ground of one-upmanship that even great long form writers like bill simmons must resort to quippy nonsense in order to meet the zeitgeist's requirement for snark; the kings have been the butt of bad jokes for the better part of a decade now, and i'm regularly amazed at the pride so many "journalists" seem to take in sniping at such an easy target. that said, i'm not terribly bothered by the shallow observations of the national media in the immediate sense. but if the kings actually manage to make a serious playoff push this season with this reconfigured roster, i will be bothered by the inevitable rain of bullcrap about how the kings have sacrificed their "future flexibility" for a first round exit at the hands of the warriors or the spurs or the grizzlies. at what point did trying to win become so worthy of ridicule? at what point did selling fans a competitive roster become so without virtue?
every season, bust after bust after bust reveal themselves to us. every season, former lottery picks are traded or flat-out waived for failing to meet their potential. the knicks just signed ex-#2 overall pick derrick williams, a player who has been a perpetual disappointment at every stop. the nets just "outbid" the kings for the services of ex-#1 pick andrea bargnani, a player who has never even cared enough to try. and we've literally just discovered that joel embiid will miss his second straight year with foot problems, having not played a single career game of nba basketball. where are all the snarky think pieces about how "trusting the process" in philadelphia is as likely to leave that franchise mired in unfulfilled potential as the kings have been for years on end? i'm continually stunned by the value that franchises, fans, and sports writers place on hope, because hope is what most draft picks boil down to. yes, rookie scale contracts are very useful commodities in the contemporary nba, but that's not really what motivates a franchise attempting to sell tickets despite its losing roster. at that point, you're not selling a team that figures to have a chance at winning on any given night; you're selling the idea of your team winning someday, and for whatever reason, that is an extremely powerful idea to sell...
here's a though experiment: which is likely to cost a team more assets? trading for the #2 pick in advance of the 2011 draft, without knowing which player you will select in that draft? or trading for derrick williams, the actual player that draft position represents, a year or two after he was drafted (but before he was officially labeled a "bust")? in general, 2011 was a sh*tty draft year, but even in a sh*tty draft year, it's intoxicatingly easy to sell the ideas of "hope" and "potential." i don't know why it should be so much more difficult to sell the idea that a team with a superstar entering his prime and a poor roster around him should want to improve that roster with veteran talent, rather than the lollipops and rainbows of once-a-year lottery hopes-and-dreams...
now, none of this is to say that there's no value in rebuilding through the draft. there absolutely is value in it, but only up to a point. the kings, for example, snagged their superstar in the 2010 draft. but then they f***ed up four subsequent lottery picks, and their rebuild-through-the-draft strategy was completely shot. the mistake was not in clearing capspace to sign rajon rondo, marco belinelli, kosto koufos, and omri casspi this offseason. the mistake was in drafting jimmer fredette, thomas robinson, ben mclemore, and nik stauskas. however, vlade divac can do nothing about the mistakes of his predecessors. all he can do is attempt to put a competitive roster around demarcus cousins as quickly as possible in order to a) take advantage of demarcus' prime, and b) give demarcus a reason to stay...
every season, bust after bust after bust reveal themselves to us. every season, former lottery picks are traded or flat-out waived for failing to meet their potential. the knicks just signed ex-#2 overall pick derrick williams, a player who has been a perpetual disappointment at every stop. the nets just "outbid" the kings for the services of ex-#1 pick andrea bargnani, a player who has never even cared enough to try. and we've literally just discovered that joel embiid will miss his second straight year with foot problems, having not played a single career game of nba basketball. where are all the snarky think pieces about how "trusting the process" in philadelphia is as likely to leave that franchise mired in unfulfilled potential as the kings have been for years on end? i'm continually stunned by the value that franchises, fans, and sports writers place on hope, because hope is what most draft picks boil down to. yes, rookie scale contracts are very useful commodities in the contemporary nba, but that's not really what motivates a franchise attempting to sell tickets despite its losing roster. at that point, you're not selling a team that figures to have a chance at winning on any given night; you're selling the idea of your team winning someday, and for whatever reason, that is an extremely powerful idea to sell...
here's a though experiment: which is likely to cost a team more assets? trading for the #2 pick in advance of the 2011 draft, without knowing which player you will select in that draft? or trading for derrick williams, the actual player that draft position represents, a year or two after he was drafted (but before he was officially labeled a "bust")? in general, 2011 was a sh*tty draft year, but even in a sh*tty draft year, it's intoxicatingly easy to sell the ideas of "hope" and "potential." i don't know why it should be so much more difficult to sell the idea that a team with a superstar entering his prime and a poor roster around him should want to improve that roster with veteran talent, rather than the lollipops and rainbows of once-a-year lottery hopes-and-dreams...
now, none of this is to say that there's no value in rebuilding through the draft. there absolutely is value in it, but only up to a point. the kings, for example, snagged their superstar in the 2010 draft. but then they f***ed up four subsequent lottery picks, and their rebuild-through-the-draft strategy was completely shot. the mistake was not in clearing capspace to sign rajon rondo, marco belinelli, kosto koufos, and omri casspi this offseason. the mistake was in drafting jimmer fredette, thomas robinson, ben mclemore, and nik stauskas. however, vlade divac can do nothing about the mistakes of his predecessors. all he can do is attempt to put a competitive roster around demarcus cousins as quickly as possible in order to a) take advantage of demarcus' prime, and b) give demarcus a reason to stay...
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CuzistanKing
G-League
It is mystifying how everyone the Kings trade away is suddenly a "promising prospect" or a "valuable vet" yet everyone they take on is a "washed-out overpaid bust", isn't it?
What national "analysts" are missing is that suddenly our team has a) complementary pieces for our superstar; b) more talent than it had in a decade; and c) zero bad contracts (addition by subtraction). What Vlade did in one short week is amazing, yet everyone wants to spout how inexperienced he is, and how he needs help with understanding salary cap and trades. I'll take a grizzled vet that's been there, done that being in charge of my team over a weasely lawyer that's "in" with all the agents and GM's in the league. I mean, thanks to Vlade's genius DeMarcus went from "snake in the grass" to "hyped for the next season" in less than two weeks! That's worth 1000x more to me than all of the analysts' opinions combined.
spok22s
G-League
Don't agree with the rookie bust part, but yea. I hope the Kings make the playoffs this year and make the media eat some major crow.
Definitely agree with the vast majority of your points and quite frankly the Kings were in a position to either blow things up and be that rebuilding team for the umpteenth time or they had to make a somewhat painful move to allow them more ability to retool. But dealing a first round pick is painful regardless. If Vlade's gambit doesn't work and the Kings are bad then obviously it eliminates one avenue of improvement. But even if it does (and that's where I'd put my money were I a betting man) then it hurts because as a playoff team with a pick in the 20's those are the easy opportunities to grab the NBA version of a rent controlled apartment. A guy like Bobby Portis for example will likely never be a star but he can be a very solid player on a very cheap deal for four years.
Still, in the scheme of things, the Kings making the playoffs for a few years would be amazing. And considering George Karl coached teams are a virtual lock to make the playoffs and the Kings have a greatly improved roster from the one that started last year in such promising fashion and had a top ranked starting 5, I think I'll actually be disappointed if they don't make the postseason, even if they win 40+ games.
I want to enjoy rooting for my team. If all that requires is putting up with some snark from national writers and a 1st round pick in three years then I consider that a small price to pay.
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I think that is the thing most national writers disagree with.
A lot of people here claim that Vlade turned Nik, JT, Landry a pick and pick swaps into Rondo, Koufos, Bellineli, Butler and Casspi (some will add WCS which is beyond absurd).
We signed Casspi to the room exception (that's at least the assumption around here, otherwise we don't have cap space now) and Butler was signed at vet minimum that doesn't require cap space.
With the cap higher than his projection we would have had a little over 13 million cap space, making the moves that were made on Ray and stretching Landry would have given you enough money to sign Rondo and Koufos or any other combination of 2 of the Rondo-Koufos-Bellineli trio without giving up on anything (except a very small cap hit on Landry that will get even smaller in relation as the cap rises).
We could've rolled out the same exact roster we have now, only with JT and Nik instead of Bellineli (or a different comination). and if you really like Bellineli you possibly could have traded away JT and some very small assets for cap relief to sign Bellineli...
if you look at this from that perspective (which is how many writers around the league look at) you basically traded:
JT, Nik, pick swaps and a future first rounder that becomes unprotected it's 2nd year for Bellineli and the extra 3 million in cap we have now (or Koufos without the said cap).
Chupacabra
Starter
We traded away Thompson, Landry and Stauskas for capspace.
ockingsfan
Starter
The way I see the trade is this:
Traded away Nik Stauskas for the 2 second round picks, which I believe he chose the players, so these are players that Vlade thought had a bright future in the NBA.
Traded away the future 1st round pick for the salary dump. JT, Landry and Stauskas were due to make $16 mil this year and $30mil over the next 2 years. A salary dump trade is equivalent to what Houston paid to Lakers to take Jeremy Lin off the books and they whiffed on Chris Bosh.
Pick swaps, he made the pick swaps for the years that DMC is still under contract, so highly unlikely we wind up picking higher than Philly. If we do, Philly won't be far behind in the pick swap.
The gamble is simple, we make moves now and try to get better now and move into playoff contention and to keep a top 10 player (DMC) happy and staying in Sacto long term. Or wait out another terrible year hoping for lotto luck and that your franchise players doesn't demand to be traded at the same time next year.
I think it would be a bigger gamble to sit on our hands for yet another year of DMC's prime and not make any major moves.
That only works if you're viewing things after the fact. The reality is that Divac made a deal to give the Kings more breathing room and more options.
Rondo and either Monta Ellis or Wes Matthews was likely plan A and the Kings opened up the caproom to pursue it. While they may have struck out on those two SGs, I think Vlade recovered nicely in assembling the team that's now in place.
In hindsight we can say that all of those moves could've been accomplished without the Philly trade but considering they weren't the first plan of attack it's a bit disingenuous to pick them apart after the fact. Vlade gave the Kings the freedom to pursue a few different things while revamping the team. I don't like that it is going to cost a future first but again, if Vlade continues to have success as a GM who knows how valuable that pick is in three years.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Pfffft..... Writers.
What do they know? Grammar, punctuation, vocabulary?
They're obviously lacking in sports knowledge. Can't even muster up an opinion that goes against the grain.
If y'all think that one by Simmons was bad, just check out Dwyer's latest hit piece over on Yahoo.
The only risky move we made was signing Rondo. And honestly, that isn't even really risky. It's a one year deal and we still have DC.
All of our other additions are solid as hell, and actually address needs (wow! Imagine that!). Our roster is as deep and talented as it's ever been in the Cousins era.
As far as the Philly trade? We jettisoned JT (who was basically a poor man's Haslem), Landry (overpaid garbage), and Nik (another draft mispick).
Everyone is making a big deal about the picks. **** The picks. **** the draft. Ever since OKC had their amazing draft run, people think a team needs to be in the lotto for half a decade in order to rebuild. **** that. You get your star and you get the **** out. We have our star. We've been in the lotto every year since drafting Cuz with nothing to show for it but a crappy record and a series of busts.
And this is all coming from someone who hated the Philly trade (when it first went down).
But whatever, let em hate. It'll be amusing when all of a sudden we have a bunch of bandwagoners and media jock riders.
End rant.
What do they know? Grammar, punctuation, vocabulary?
They're obviously lacking in sports knowledge. Can't even muster up an opinion that goes against the grain.
If y'all think that one by Simmons was bad, just check out Dwyer's latest hit piece over on Yahoo.
The only risky move we made was signing Rondo. And honestly, that isn't even really risky. It's a one year deal and we still have DC.
All of our other additions are solid as hell, and actually address needs (wow! Imagine that!). Our roster is as deep and talented as it's ever been in the Cousins era.
As far as the Philly trade? We jettisoned JT (who was basically a poor man's Haslem), Landry (overpaid garbage), and Nik (another draft mispick).
Everyone is making a big deal about the picks. **** The picks. **** the draft. Ever since OKC had their amazing draft run, people think a team needs to be in the lotto for half a decade in order to rebuild. **** that. You get your star and you get the **** out. We have our star. We've been in the lotto every year since drafting Cuz with nothing to show for it but a crappy record and a series of busts.
And this is all coming from someone who hated the Philly trade (when it first went down).
But whatever, let em hate. It'll be amusing when all of a sudden we have a bunch of bandwagoners and media jock riders.
End rant.
ockingsfan
Starter
Also, Rondo requested a shooter on the team before he signed. If Vlade did not do the salary dump and get Bellini in FA, there may have not been a Rondo signing.
Vlade basically turned two marginal players (Nik and JT) and one black hole (Landry) and one future 1st rounder (hopefully late teen or later pick) into Rondo, Bellini, Kofous, Casspi and possibly Mhute.
We went from a very, very marginal depth to one of the deepest teams in the NBA. Almost 2 deep at every position.
ninjabiscuit
Bench
That's very well said. I feel the same.
S
sactownfan
Guest
Bam!!! exactly this teams dead weight for players that will provide exactly what we needed to breakout. We didn't need to sign LA or Lebron... we needed depth and guys that fit... now our bench will rival any other bench in the league and our starting 5 was one of the top 5 units in all of the NBA. Drama aside we are gonna win more and we could make last years start looks just ok.
Pretty much. I'm guessing Rondo starts but just for the sake of argument let's say the starting lineup is Collison, McLemore, Gay, Koufos and Cousins. Kosta is an upgrade on Jason Thompson, McLemore and Cousins should be a year better and overall the starting lineup should be as good or better than last year when it ranked at the top of the league.
But now instead of Sessions, McCallum Stauskas, Casspi, Derrick Williams, Landry and Hollins who were historically bad the Kings would have Rondo, Bellinelli, Casspi, Butler, WCS and possibly Miller, Mbah a Moute and one more player.
And of course they'll be coached by the sixth winningest NBA head coach in history whose teams have made the playoffs in all but 2 of the last 20 seasons. One of those was last year's Kings where he was only in place for 30 games and the other was when the Bucks went .500 and still had a chance at the postseason going into the last day of the season.
I've been trying to figure out if we as a fan base are just being overly optimistic or if the national media is just severely underrating this Kings team. As usual the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and my homerism is clouding my judgement a bit. But honestly I think the truth is that it's MUCH closer to the media underrating this team. Which is exactly the time to sneak up on opponents, collect some wins right out of the gate and be everyone's "surprise" team next season. Then gear up for taking the next step the following season in a beautiful new building.
I'm not even trying to temper my enthusiasm right now. I am excited for this Kings team and for this season.
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