Vlade Divac - Kings GM AKA 21

[Suicide King]

Vlade turned the 8th into a better player than Chriss in Bogdan. Successful trade period. The 8th pick was split into 3 players. 1/3rd ( Bogdan) looks like the better player. 1/3rd ( Skal ) still looks to have a potential as a decent to great selection. 1/3rd ( Papa) was cut. IMHO due to personality/disciplinary issues but I digress.

So basically a big hit, a neutral, and a negative. This point of contention between the Vlade supporters, the anti-Vlade's and those in between seems pedantic at best.

 

[CelticsFan]

If next to Papa instead of “gone” it said “high risk high reward project big. Very young and probably a contributor next year - potentially an all star some day” .... you would be happy?

Yes if that was the case I would be. The truth is he's gone. I'm not killing Vlade about the draft, my point is I don't think the 2016 draft was weak.

 

[Larry David]

Look some of you just don't get how things work around here:

(1) When things look objectively bad at the time, you tell people they are being too negative and "Time will tell."
(2) Then, when things are later confirmed as bad. "That's in the past. Whatever. We're not dwelling on that."

 

[Kingsfan23]

Again, I just think that's part of his MO. He's never been a guy that hunts his own shot in the NBA. One season he led his team in shot attempts but that was a fairly modest 12.4 per game. If you take a guy who's always been on playoff teams where he was instructed to move the ball and take open shots and put him on a team of mostly rookies with no go-to scoring options outside of Slo-Bo and expect him to create shots off the dribble and lead the team in scoring you're setting him up to fail. He certainly could have performed better but he was not a bad player when he was here, just a mediocre one with an inflated contract.

There's also the issue of playing time. We're 2/3 of the way through the season and not a single player on the team is averaging what most would consider to be "starter's minutes". Look at Jimmy Butler in Minnesota -- an All-Star this year averaging 22, 5, and 5. He's getting those numbers in 37 minutes per game on a very good 59.3 TS%. George Hill's was an even higher 59.7%. Who's to say in 10 more minutes per game George Hill wouldn't have averaged in the 15-20 ppg range? If he was able to maintain that TS% it would have been hard for him not to. And then you had other fans demanding Joerger play Fox even more right from the start of the season. He can't win either way.

The thing that bothers me the most is when it's been suggested that he was a negative influence on the team and in the locker room because he wasn't smiling all the time and waving a towel on the bench. There are reports that he was a great influence in the locker room and all of our young guards went to him constantly for advice about match ups. Not everyone has a "big" personality. I might be wrong but this just seems like a classic case of perception "creating" reality for a lot of people. Hill had a target on his back from the beginning because Fox was hyped up as our new franchise guy and Hill was in the way. Then on top of that you give him a huge paycheck and saddle the team with the inevitable grossly optimistic pre-season projections (playoffs?!) and it's no surprise he's getting a disproportionate percentage of the blame for our poor record.

My attitude all season has been -- the team is bad. That was the plan. We'll hopefully get a top 5 pick and be less bad next year. Why are we stressing out over wins and losses in the meantime? There's nothing to stress about anymore. Some of these game threads this season are just unreadable. The way Dave Joerger has been treated has been equally shameful IMO. The guy is just doing his job.

Again, I thought he was a guy shooting well just going through the motions here, and I will always perceive him as a “quitter” or a guy who took the money and ran here because of that, but I guess it’s subjective. I saw a guy who didn’t make the proper effort to get those points

I don’t think other players disliked him, but those articles that may have been linked to his camp that came out of Utah about the team making false promises of playoffs made the team look stupid if indeed his camp was the source and he just wanted out.

Whether or not you have a negative taste in your mouth regarding him, his legacy on paper is now the bad contract of Iman Shumpert making 11 mil next year when the team signed him to be a positive asset

 

[whozit]

Look some of you just don't get how things work around here:

(1) When things look objectively bad at the time, you tell people they are being too negative and "Time will tell."
(2) Then, when things are later confirmed as bad. "That's in the past. Whatever. We're not dwelling on that."

Since I believe I was the last one to say"time will tell," I will respond.

Time will tell is on validity of LEGITIMATE concerns. Meaning those concerns may be proven to be true. That is not dismissing them. Even though I think the team is in a better place than when he took over, if those concerns become"fact" then the team will end right back where they began.

I'm counting on that not to be the case. As a fan that's all I can do. The little I spend on league pass doesn't amount to much in the big picture. When the stress becomes more than the enjoyment, I'll walk away and spend my time elsewhere.

 

[VF21]

Look some of you just don't get how things work around here:

(1) When things look objectively bad at the time, you tell people they are being too negative and "Time will tell."
(2) Then, when things are later confirmed as bad. "That's in the past. Whatever. We're not dwelling on that."

Ah, nothing I love more than a good straw man.

 

[kingdivac]

As far as Free Agency goes, I wouldn't mind the Kings going for Trevor Ariza as hopefully a value pick-up as long as they don't overpay too much like they did Hill. Obviously if the Kings could pick up a marquee player then green-light, but thats doubtful. I wonder how much slack Vlade has if the team turns in a dud again next season. Probably it will be somewhat dependant on how Free Agency and the draft pick turn out next year.

 

[Larry David]

Straw man??? Those are your go to moves 8 years running!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

As far as Free Agency goes, I wouldn't mind the Kings going for Trevor Ariza as hopefully a value pick-up as long as they don't overpay too much like they did Hill. Obviously if the Kings could pick up a marquee player then green-light, but thats doubtful. I wonder how much slack Vlade has if the team turns in a dud again next season. Probably it will be somewhat dependant on how Free Agency and the draft pick turn out next year.

I don't know about Ariza. He's a great player as long as he has other great players around him. It's no surprise his best stints in the NBA have come from the Lakers with Kobe and Gasol, his last year with the Wizards with Wall, Beal, and Porter, and his current time with the Rockets. Every time he's been a go to guy on a team he has failed miserably. I could just see him putting up 38% shooting on 20 shots a game and somehow getting 30+ minutes a night on the Kings.

 

[kingdivac]

I don't know about Ariza. He's a great player as long as he has other great players around him. It's no surprise his best stints in the NBA have come from the Lakers with Kobe and Gasol, his last year with the Wizards with Wall, Beal, and Porter, and his current time with the Rockets. Every time he's been a go to guy on a team he has failed miserably. I could just see him putting up 38% shooting on 20 shots a game and somehow getting 30+ minutes a night on the Kings.

I dont think he'd be picked up to be a offensive focal point, and he doesn't need to be. He can be brought in as a perimeter defender. As long as he's not paid obscenely, he seems like a fair pick-up.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Ariza will re-sign with the Rockets for the vet minimum to backup LeBron

 

[The_Jamal]

I don't know about Ariza. He's a great player as long as he has other great players around him. It's no surprise his best stints in the NBA have come from the Lakers with Kobe and Gasol, his last year with the Wizards with Wall, Beal, and Porter, and his current time with the Rockets. Every time he's been a go to guy on a team he has failed miserably. I could just see him putting up 38% shooting on 20 shots a game and somehow getting 30+ minutes a night on the Kings.

I'm out on guys like Ariza until we establish a real core with the young guys. You find your Harden/CP3/Capela core and THEN you go sign the P.J Tucker/Mbah a Moute/Eric Gordon types.

 

[24 rick barry]

What continues to baffle me...if you know you were not going to make a playoff run, and you are in a rebuilding phase and you draft 2 point guards, why would you go out and pay 19mil a year for a over 30 point guard, when you know he's not part of the rebuild? btw you are stuck with a 11 million contract for next year. Why not trade for players with bad contracts who can add assets-like additional draft picks that we can add together to get a really good draft pick.
I've already stated that the Stauskus landry Thompson trade was probably the worst trade ever. For some reason, Valde decided that that although we had historical evidence of being unable to put the correct pieces around Cousins, he was the man who could change all that. Well, he failed.
Karl gets chastised for telling the world that Boogie should get trade, this poisins relationship between and Valde tells Boogie that Karl is all wrong, you are not going to be traded

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What continues to baffle me...if you know you were not going to make a playoff run, and you are in a rebuilding phase and you draft 2 point guards, why would you go out and pay 19mil a year for a over 30 point guard, when you know he's not part of the rebuild?

They thought he could provide leadership and mentor the kids as they were groomed into the role. Aside from the fact that he failed at doing both and was a malcontent, it seemed like a pretty smart move at the time and was widely hailed by the non-Kings friendly national press as a smart thing to do. So it's funny to see Kings fans blast him for this.

 

[John Galt]

What continues to baffle me...if you know you were not going to make a playoff run, and you are in a rebuilding phase and you draft 2 point guards, why would you go out and pay 19mil a year for a over 30 point guard, when you know he's not part of the rebuild? btw you are stuck with a 11 million contract for next year. Why not trade for players with bad contracts who can add assets-like additional draft picks that we can add together to get a really good draft pick.
I've already stated that the Stauskus landry Thompson trade was probably the worst trade ever. For some reason, Valde decided that that although we had historical evidence of being unable to put the correct pieces around Cousins, he was the man who could change all that. Well, he failed.
Karl gets chastised for telling the world that Boogie should get trade, this poisins relationship between and Valde tells Boogie that Karl is all wrong, you are not going to be traded

wait what? are you saying that the trade Vlade made with the Sixers wasn't good? now there's a discussion topic...

 

[pdizo916]

What continues to baffle me...if you know you were not going to make a playoff run, and you are in a rebuilding phase and you draft 2 point guards, why would you go out and pay 19mil a year for a over 30 point guard, when you know he's not part of the rebuild? btw you are stuck with a 11 million contract for next year. Why not trade for players with bad contracts who can add assets-like additional draft picks that we can add together to get a really good draft pick.
I've already stated that the Stauskus landry Thompson trade was probably the worst trade ever. For some reason, Valde decided that that although we had historical evidence of being unable to put the correct pieces around Cousins, he was the man who could change all that. Well, he failed.
Karl gets chastised for telling the world that Boogie should get trade, this poisins relationship between and Valde tells Boogie that Karl is all wrong, you are not going to be traded

I see that you got two snarky comments about your post but both of them failed to mention the bolded...which is the best point that you have brought up. For the life of me, I don't know why Vlade doesn't use his most valuable asset, cap space, to improve this team currently and for the long-term. I would hope he would tried to trade for Brook Lopez or Amare Carroll or will try to trade for Ryan Anderson. He's a vet that would be very useful right about now.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm firmly of the belief that one of the best things Vlade did is not take on any of the horrendous contracts that teams doled out in the past two years.

We got picks and young talent. He was smart to take on vets he thought could help us and sign them to ~2 year deals rather than sign average players to 4 year mega deals. I would actually think that's one of the things most of us could agree on.

 

[burekijogurt]

They thought he could provide leadership and mentor the kids as they were groomed into the role. Aside from the fact that he failed at doing both and was a malcontent, it seemed like a pretty smart move at the time and was widely hailed by the non-Kings friendly national press as a smart thing to do. So it's funny to see Kings fans blast him for this.

In addition to mentoring, I really believe Vlade signed him so that he has something of value to trade. Now, he got a second round draft pick and an expiring contract for him which is not what I was hoping for (first round draft pick somehow), but its still more than what we had BEFORE Hill was signed. Now we use our second round pick to get Ginobili at 54

 

[pdxKingsFan]

In addition to mentoring, I really believe Vlade signed him so that he has something of value to trade. Now, he got a second round draft pick and an expiring contract for him which is not what I was hoping for (first round draft pick somehow), but its still more than what we had BEFORE Hill was signed. Now we use our second round pick to get Ginobili at 54

I thought we could do better for Hill in the offseason but it appears he was a complete toxic mess.

Shumpert should be movable for a 2019 pick at some point, if that's how we want to play. Honestly, we've done a great job stockpiling picks and we really don't need another young guy in 2019 (barring us somehow being the worst team or passing the #1 pick in the draft to whoever holds our pick).

 

[Gguod]

I'm firmly of the belief that one of the best things Vlade did is not take on any of the horrendous contracts that teams doled out in the past two years.

We got picks and young talent. He was smart to take on vets he thought could help us and sign them to ~2 year deals rather than sign average players to 4 year mega deals. I would actually think that's one of the things most of us could agree on.

Yeah instead of taking bad contracts for 2 years and get 1st rounders, he decided to sign those bad contracts himself without getting draft picks. If this is the best thing Vlade has done, I would be worried.

If you rebuild for lets say 3 years, you dont need all your cap space for that time so during that 3 years you should rent out your cap space and get compensated for it. Its really a no brainer and if you fail to do that, you have failed in one big part of rebuilding

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah instead of taking bad contracts for 2 years and get 1st rounders, he decided to sign those bad contracts himself without getting draft picks. If this is the best thing Vlade has done, I would be worried.

If you rebuild for lets say 3 years, you dont need all your cap space for that time so during that 3 years you should rent out your cap space and get compensated for it. Its really a no brainer and if you fail to do that, you have failed in one big part of rebuilding

I will not be surprised if when all is said and done we somehow get a second first rounder this year and we get one in 2019.

That said - when 3/4s of your roster is in their first contract, it is not the time to just be taking on as many bad contracts as possible just for more picks. We do need to try and be a player in FA this summer, even if FA is not always kind to us. That's what the Hill trade was about - getting us back in position to make an impact signing in a year we need to move the needle. Hopefully with the PG position solidified for the near future and a good look this year at the kids we are planning to make a part of our future, we can make a signing in an impact position this season.

The other important part of this - is if Vlade, et al. are to be believed, and everything is about a culture shift, then taking on overpaid/malcontented/unusable players is not a way to raise morale and build a winning culture. I think we do see kids that really want to win here. That is why more than anything Hill wasn't kept around until he was more valuable a trade piece.

That's just how I see it.

 

[Gguod]

I will not be surprised if when all is said and done we somehow get a second first rounder this year and we get one in 2019.

That said - when 3/4s of your roster is in their first contract, it is not the time to just be taking on as many bad contracts as possible just for more picks. We do need to try and be a player in FA this summer, even if FA is not always kind to us. That's what the Hill trade was about - getting us back in position to make an impact signing in a year we need to move the needle. Hopefully with the PG position solidified for the near future and a good look this year at the kids we are planning to make a part of our future, we can make a signing in an impact position this season.

The other important part of this - is if Vlade, et al. are to be believed, and everything is about a culture shift, then taking on overpaid/malcontented/unusable players is not a way to raise morale and build a winning culture. I think we do see kids that really want to win here. That is why more than anything Hill wasn't kept around until he was more valuable a trade piece.

That's just how I see it.

You see it how you want to see it. No matter what you say or how you see it, we are exactly in a position where we need to use cap space to gather draft picks, even if 3/4 of our roster is young guys. Rebuilding teem needs as much assets they can ever acquire.

And its funny you say we need to be a player in fa next year when the last years free agency is the thing that is preventing us to do that. 33million of useless salary just because of last year.

I also think we need to be a player when free agency comes. But not in a way you want us to be. Instead of overpaying for these "mentors" or throwing huge money to second tier free agents, I wanted us to be one of the few teams with a lot of cap space who could take in other teams salary and get very well compensated for it. Its even more crucial now since we dont have our pick in '19.

Again, good example is that Carrol trade. The same guys here that were in on those "mentor" signings last year that turned out to be bad, were against of us doing that trade. Turns out the trade was brilliant. They rehabed his value AND got a nice haul from taking him. Even if the players other teams would like to dump were useless, you could just waive them if they really have no value.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We're supposed to have 20 million or so free, enough for one signing. Because we're getting half of Hill's contract back. The remaining on Shumpert's deal we should be able to move for a pick in 2019. If that's what they want to do.

 

[Kingsfan23]

You see it how you want to see it. No matter what you say or how you see it, we are exactly in a position where we need to use cap space to gather draft picks, even if 3/4 of our roster is young guys. Rebuilding teem needs as much assets they can ever acquire.

And its funny you say we need to be a player in fa next year when the last years free agency is the thing that is preventing us to do that. 33million of useless salary just because of last year.

I also think we need to be a player when free agency comes. But not in a way you want us to be. Instead of overpaying for these "mentors" or throwing huge money to second tier free agents, I wanted us to be one of the few teams with a lot of cap space who could take in other teams salary and get very well compensated for it. Its even more crucial now since we dont have our pick in '19.

Again, good example is that Carrol trade. The same guys here that were in on those "mentor" signings last year that turned out to be bad, were against of us doing that trade. Turns out the trade was brilliant. They rehabed his value AND got a nice haul from taking him. Even if the players other teams would like to dump were useless, you could just waive them if they really have no value.

I can see Hill, as he was thought to actually be an asset before turning into a negative with Shumpert.. Randolph, just, why the 2nd year? Just why? Vince was a 1 year deal that kicked the can down just a year. But a 2nd year for Zach? Just a noose around our space and bad management from whoever the notion came from

 

[kingjatt]

First of all Vlade was a great player for us, he was a part of some of the best memories of this franchise. He will be beloved in Sacramento forever for what he and the rest of that early 2K squad did. Its really a shame that Vivek used him as a PR shield, anybody and everybody knew he was not qualified to run a team in this modern NBA with zero experience.

Having said that he has been nothing short of a horrible GM who has put us back further since the time Pete D was fired. He has made bad draft choices and even worse free agent signings. In a time when every team is scrambling to be more versatile with athletic wings that can switch and hit open shots he really came into the season with 5 centers. FIVE. On top of that our best wing is a 40 year old who really has no business getting minutes right now along with ZBO, Temple, KK. But we are too afraid to bench them. MESS.

This team is way off of what the rest of the league is doing, the roster construction and style of play is all out of whack. It seems ok if you watch just the kings but if you take the time to watch some of the best teams in the league you can see how far behind we truely are.

The team is not even fun to watch anymore, I catch a game here and there but Ill be back when Vivek finally decides to bring in a real GM with real power and time to construct a modern roster.

 

[AleksandarN]

First of all Vlade was a great player for us, he was a part of some of the best memories of this franchise. He will be beloved in Sacramento forever for what he and the rest of that early 2K squad did. Its really a shame that Vivek used him as a PR shield, anybody and everybody knew he was not qualified to run a team in this modern NBA with zero experience.

Having said that he has been nothing short of a horrible GM who has put us back further since the time Pete D was fired. He has made bad draft choices and even worse free agent signings. In a time when every team is scrambling to be more versatile with athletic wings that can switch and hit open shots he really came into the season with 5 centers. FIVE. On top of that our best wing is a 40 year old who really has no business getting minutes right now along with ZBO, Temple, KK. But we are too afraid to bench them. MESS.

This team is way off of what the rest of the league is doing, the roster construction and style of play is all out of whack. It seems ok if you watch just the kings but if you take the time to watch some of the best teams in the league you can see how far behind we truely are.

The team is not even fun to watch anymore, I catch a game here and there but Ill be back when Vivek finally decides to bring in a real GM with real power and time to construct a modern roster.

What was his bad draft choices?

 

[VF21]

...The team is not even fun to watch anymore, I catch a game here and there but Ill be back when Vivek finally decides to bring in a real GM with real power and time to construct a modern roster.

Your loss.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What was his bad draft choices?

Don't you want to hear about Papa and Skal some more? I know I do...

 

[King Baller]

First of all Vlade was a great player for us, he was a part of some of the best memories of this franchise. He will be beloved in Sacramento forever for what he and the rest of that early 2K squad did. Its really a shame that Vivek used him as a PR shield, anybody and everybody knew he was not qualified to run a team in this modern NBA with zero experience.

Having said that he has been nothing short of a horrible GM who has put us back further since the time Pete D was fired. He has made bad draft choices and even worse free agent signings. In a time when every team is scrambling to be more versatile with athletic wings that can switch and hit open shots he really came into the season with 5 centers. FIVE. On top of that our best wing is a 40 year old who really has no business getting minutes right now along with ZBO, Temple, KK. But we are too afraid to bench them. MESS.

This team is way off of what the rest of the league is doing, the roster construction and style of play is all out of whack. It seems ok if you watch just the kings but if you take the time to watch some of the best teams in the league you can see how far behind we truely are.

The team is not even fun to watch anymore, I catch a game here and there but Ill be back when Vivek finally decides to bring in a real GM with real power and time to construct a modern roster.

Well, I think our best wing is Bogdan followed by Buddy. There are also two very promising PG's on the Kings in Fox and FM III. JJ has looked good as of late. Willie and Skal can play. Then there is Giles and an early pick in the upcoming draft. The Kings have no long dead weight contracts. Joerger is a good young coach. Vlade has done pretty well IMO.

Honestly what were you expecting?