Vlade Divac - Kings GM AKA 21

[fansinceday1]

I have to go back to my reference point, the 49ers.
They also hired a guy with zero experience as GM. John Lynch was a tv analyst. A lot of the same angst kings fans had for the vlade hire was thrown at the 49ers brass for hiring lynch. The 49ers however struck gold. Lynch is a born GM. He can wheel and deal and has fleeced more experienced Gm's out of draft picks. His NFL connections also resulted in the 49ers getting their #1 need, a franchise QB.
I realize that when you hire someone with no experience you need an awful lot of luck. IMO the kings have damn near zero of that valuable commodity. Again, my opinion, I think in totality vlade is way in over his head. He won't be here in 2 years if he sticks to his word of quitting if the kings don't make the playoffs next year.

 

[Iced Espresso]

If we do move on from Vlade, hope Hinkie comes. He was here out of the blue earlier in the season.

Icing on the cake would be to read about the process if that were to happen.

 

[KingsFan5]

Whats up everyone

Felt like the Papa thing has been over and done with long enough that we should move on and focus more on the actual topic of Mr 21.

This board is hilarious. Vlade has managed two straight drafts to absolutely kill it and the one before was solid. 2015 WCS is now looking better and better. (no not an all-star but to this day intriguing, more you could say for some of the others)

He is a revolutionary GM. In that he loves getting lots of 1st rd picks.

Look at Mitchell in Utah this year. 13th pick. How about Fultz? the #1 pick? haha Go back and look over a few drafts. Vlade may actual realize his own weakness. He's not an amazing GM. So instead of wasting our only pick, he's created the opportunity to have a bunch of picks. Look at this team! Is overloaded with youth. We had to cut some dead weight. Papa and Malachi were not working out.

But seriously he's been manufacturing more and more picks each year. Mason, Jackson, Giles, Bogi, Skal, Fox, and Bruno Caboclo (was the 20th pick), WCS. We have a 1st and two 2nds coming up this next draft.

Also we in theory could have 40+ mil in cap space.

Remember that summer where teams threw out some of the worst FA money of all time. We stayed out of that! We have no poison pill contracts plus all kinds of picks and talent.

Vlade gets a horrible rep due to #1 when he came into office remember Pete? #2 Kings were a rolling punch line #3 his first trade.. he had no assistants at that time and didn't actually know what he was doing, Its well documented by basketball insiders. BTW those same insiders give him positive reviews since acknowleding how difficult it was to just jump in here at that time and how he's grown.

Instead of a sniper GM he's been a Shotgun... spraying bullets everywhere in search of talent. Which takes me back to Mitchell this year. Sometimes its better to have more chances. Good news is Fox and company could be pretty good.

How exactly has he "killed it" in two straight drafts? IMHO it is too early to know either way

 

[AleksandarN]

How exactly has he "killed it" in two straight drafts? IMHO it is too early to know either way

Funny you say that as the other side claims the opposite.

 

[gunks]

I like Vlade's drafting, even if he doesn't seem to bring anything else to the table. We could have a better GM, but aside from the Philly trade, he isn't making PDA level blunders at every turn.

However, I'm of the fatalistic opinion that it doesn't matter if we fire Vlade, because Vivek is the one who's going to decide on a replacement, and as long as he's the majority owner we are doomed anyways.

 

[OffTheWallJamal]

Just because the Kings have been a dysfunctional franchise doesn't automatically invalidate the claim that Woj has a grudge or something against the Kings.

Ever since the claim 'first and goal at the one' he has seemed to have a negative bias against the Kings.

Can someone please explain this to me?

 

[Livinthedream]

Woj will always throw Back hands and imply undertones of dysfunction when he writes about us. Vlade's English is rough around the edges and even as a card holding in Vlade we trust member I still sleep better at night knowing that Williams has Vlades ear and goes home with the company phone.

Kings have to stop giving Woj ammunition.

 

[ESP47]

It looks like we just raised our price for Hill a bit by adding PapaG, don't see anything wrong about this. WOJ wrote the article in Altman's POV and phrase it like we are the one who broke the deal

The not talking on the phone thing just seems like an absolute joke to me. I thought maybe it was just a dumb rumor from last year but it sounds like it has feet. How the hell can you manage a franchise and work out trades without getting on the phone? It's like applying to be a truck driver and then telling your boss you don't like to drive. Just seems to bush league in a never ending string of bush league moves this franchise has made.

Making a bad draft pick is one thing but there are so many goofy ass things that have come out of this front office, it's a joke. Just when you think the smoke has cleared, the Kings are like "But wait!!! There's more!"

 

[VF21]

Can someone please explain this to me?

When word first leaked that the Maloofs were selling the team and it would be moved to Seattle, that was among the most infamous phrases used to indicate that it was pretty much a done deal.

 

[OffTheWallJamal]

When word first leaked that the Maloofs were selling the team and it would be moved to Seattle, that was among the most infamous phrases used to indicate that it was pretty much a done deal.

Oh yeah now I remember, I was confused at the beginning because I thought they described that situation in another phrase not ''first and goal at the one.''

 

[sactowndog]

I like Vlade's drafting, even if he doesn't seem to bring anything else to the table. We could have a better GM, but aside from the Philly trade, he isn't making PDA level blunders at every turn.

However, I'm of the fatalistic opinion that it doesn't matter if we fire Vlade, because Vivek is the one who's going to decide on a replacement, and as long as he's the majority owner we are doomed anyways.

So I was highly critical of Vlade because the abrupt shift of strategy and throwing away Hill early and giving up on Pappa after 18 months.

But someone mentioned something on the trade board I hadn’t considered. Orlando declined to pick up the option on Hezonja. That was unknown data at the time of the Hill signing. I think Hezonja suffered because he joined a team young with no European support system. Bogdan had much more people who could guide him and with whom he could relate.

Hezonja could be a key free agent signing for the Kings and one Vlade can get. The Kings can offer money and a more supportive environment and people with whom he can relate. I can see Bogdan recruiting him. If they can sign Hezonja that frees them up to draft Bagley/Jackson. But to sign Hezonja they needed to free up cap space. Hence the trade of Hill and dumping Malachi and Pappa.

So for now the moves make sense if they can sign Hezonja. I think we need to see how this plays out.

 

[kingsfan101]

I'm a bit worried about cap space. The rumor is that Vlade wants to make a splash in free agency but after looking at the cap space, he's not going to be able to do much.

The veterans are going to opt in. The only one who has even the slightest inkling of a chance of not opting in is Koufos but I'm still putting him at a 98% chance of opting in with the lack of money to go around in the league. I guess it depends on whether he wants to go to a contender or make more money here. It's not like he's a guy who has already made a ton of money by NBA standards so I can easily see him staying here for the payday.

About $28mil is going to be wrapped up in Shumpert, Koufos and Temple next year. Plus ZBo is set to make almost $12mil.

I guess I'll just take solace in the fact that it may be able to save the Kings from making a bad move in giving Aaron Gordon a max deal.

Those are a lot of expiring contracts, for useful vets (except probably Shumpert, who too may attract interest). We may be able to turn some of them into assets.

 

[King Baller]

The narrative that Woj is out to get Sacramento is false. We're a dysfunctional franchise... this should come as no surprise for anyone.

Papagiannis was a horrible draft pick and in turns out, nobody else in the league wants him. This is the guy who Vlade said would be a future All-Star a year ago...

Why are you so sure of this?

 

[King Baller]

The team I just watched battle the Rockets is a good young team building something. With Giles, another first rounder and perhaps a Vet added to the current cast who will have had a season to develop things are looking up.

Why do some of you want to blow it up already? The Kings are just starting to come around.

 

[hrdboild]

Why are you so sure of this?

Occam's Razor?

 

[Suicide King]

So I was highly critical of Vlade because the abrupt shift of strategy and throwing away Hill early and giving up on Pappa after 18 months.

But someone mentioned something on the trade board I hadn’t considered. Orlando declined to pick up the option on Hezonja. That was unknown data at the time of the Hill signing. I think Hezonja suffered because he joined a team young with no European support system. Bogdan had much more people who could guide him and with whom he could relate.

Hezonja could be a key free agent signing for the Kings and one Vlade can get. The Kings can offer money and a more supportive environment and people with whom he can relate. I can see Bogdan recruiting him. If they can sign Hezonja that frees them up to draft Bagley/Jackson. But to sign Hezonja they needed to free up cap space. Hence the trade of Hill and dumping Malachi and Pappa.

So for now the moves make sense if they can sign Hezonja. I think we need to see how this plays out.

1st Bold:Are you basically saying Vlade is not an idiot if he signs the player you want, and if he doesn't he goes back to being an idiot?

2nd Bold: That's pretty much what a lot fans feel about most of his tenure.

Not trying to pick, but there are some ( me at least ) that don't love every move or hate every move. Hence my not calling for a GM's/Coaches/Players head at first sight of something perplexing. I at least try let it play out until there is obviously no chance of salvation.

 

[hrdboild]

Funny you say that as the other side claims the opposite.

That involves making a lot of assumptions though. I feel pretty confident about Bogdan already but Skal is still very raw. Fox is off to a good start but has a long way to go. We haven't seen anything of Giles yet, that's purely speculation. Every rookie comes into Sacramento hyped up as the next big thing. I remember when we all thought that Tyreke and Omri were going to lead us places. The Jimmer hype was unreal. Hassan Whiteside looked like the steal of the draft in the second round. Even Cousins applauded the Thomas Robinson pick. Ironically it was the best pick of all of them... Isaiah Thomas at 60th overall... that got the least hype. The only honest answer is that we just don't know yet.

 

[Tetsujin]

And frankly, I believe Williams on that. We didn't have a roster spot to do a 2-for-1. We knew it. We would absolutely have included him. And when Altman either forgot that Papa was part of the deal or pretended to forget when he realized the tax implications of it, then blames us in his little ESPN hagiography monologue, I think he's being disingenuous. Good for Williams for standing up to Altman and forcing them to come up with the cash to pay off Papa when we were forced to waive him due to their alteration of the deal structure.

Yeah, in terms of narratives, the "How dare the Kings try to make this deal less good for the Cavs?!" one is a dumb one.

Vlade and Williams are supposed to just, what, roll over and give in to all of Cleveland's demands to help them appease Lebron? While I have no doubt our franchise has its problems, painting the Kings trying to make the trade less sucky for themselves as some grand portrayal of disfunction is stupid and disingenuous.

 

[Tetsujin]

If we do move on from Vlade, hope Hinkie comes. He was here out of the blue earlier in the season.

Icing on the cake would be to read about the process if that were to happen.

I still don't get the Hinkie worship that goes on throughout most of the online basketball community.

The most genius thing he did was painting his franchise sucking as some sort of grand revolution in basketball excellency.

If you look at the guys he actually drafted, MCW is bad, Okafor is also bad, and Noel is borderline out of the league. Yes, drafting Embiid was good but the guy was a can't-miss prospect who fell because he had serious injury concerns. If Embiid had gone the way of Greg Odon, Hinkie would have essentially been 0-fer when it came to draft picks with the exception of Dario Saric, who is okay but not exactly worth tanking several seasons over.

I'm not saying that Hinkie is a bad GM but I don't think he's nearly the savant that some people like to portray him as.

 

[Dongoodboy]

I still don't get the Hinkie worship that goes on throughout most of the online basketball community.

The most genius thing his did was painting his franchise sucking as some sort of grand revolution in basketball excellency.

If you look at the guys he actually drafted, MCW is bad, Okafor is also bad, and Noel is borderline out of the league. Yes, drafting Embiid was good but the guy was a can't-miss prospect who fell because he had serious injury concerns. If Embiid had gone the way of Greg Odon, Hinkie would have essentially been 0-fer when it came to draft picks with the exception of Dario Saric, who is okay but not exactly worth tanking several seasons over.

I'm not saying that Hinkie is a bad GM but I don't think he's nearly the savant that some people like to portray him as.

He got the laker’s first with MCW and our first with nothing. That is the negotiation skill we need. I am just afraid of every trade coming out to be fleeced when Vlade is the one in charge

 

[Gguod]

I liked the trade downs Vlade made. 10th for JJ and Giles looks great. 8th for Bogs and Skal looks great too.

Unfortunately there is a lot of bad too. Sixers trade was god awfull. Papa G pick at 13th was horrible. Not being able to commit on rebuilding is a massive error for Vlade. Not being able to gather assets is a huge mistake. Butchering our cap situation with Zbo and Hill signings was bad. With proper cap management, using that space to gain draft picks and maximizing the value of our pick and the value of our assets and not doing that damn sixer trade, we could be in an awesome position. We could have 40+mil cap space, our own pick and the king of the sellers market for bad contracts.

That sixers trade was literally a rookie mistake where Hinkie compleatly fooled Vlade. Vlade has potential to be a good gm but unfortunately he had to make all these massive mistakes as a part of his learning curve with Kings. It pains me to even think how well we could be positioned for the future.

 

[hrdboild]

Yeah, in terms of narratives, the "How dare the Kings try to make this deal less good for the Cavs?!" one is a dumb one.

Vlade and Williams are supposed to just, what, roll over and give in to all of Cleveland's demands to help them appease Lebron? While I have no doubt our franchise has its problems, painting the Kings trying to make the trade less sucky for themselves as some grand portrayal of disfunction is stupid and disingenuous.

What was odd about the report isn't that Vlade wanted to re-negotiate the deal it's that Vlade didn't talk to Cleveland's front office about it at all. The misunderstanding seemed to result from the elaborate game of telephone played out whenever someone wants to negotiate with Sacramento. Which explains why teams were saying last year that they didn't even know DeMarcus was on the trading block until he had already been traded. Or that Vlade took one offer from one team as evidence that Cousins' trade value was only going to go down.

You don't really need to take someone else's word that Vlade is incapable of handling the job at this point... Just watch his post-Cousins trade press conference again. He all but admits it himself. Once upon a time I thought reports like this were overblown or representive of some ulterior motives on the part of agents. Anyone still using that defense now must have their head in the sand. I'm sorry to everyone who loves Vlade but it's not a matter of if he'll be dismissed anymore, it's just a matter of when. The only reason he isn't getting more criticism from Kings fans over this year's deadline deal is that so many of them are no longer Kings fans because of what happened last year or the year before that.

There are people here who defended the Maloofs for years while they tried repeatedly to steal the team and take it elsewhere, defended Pete DeAllesandro while he was conspiring to get Coach Malone fired, defended George Karl while he "guided" the team to the worst defensive effort I've ever seen in the NBA, defended Vivek when he meddled in draft decisions and tried to convince us that he was some kind of basketball savant, and now defend Vlade as some kind of misunderstood genius because he got the draft rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic and was willing to give him the biggest rookie contact in history and stared down the barrel and demanded two other franchises pay for his draft mistakes. Over and over again the reward for blind loyalty has been an endless string of narcissists coming into Sacramento acting like they're so much smarter than us simple cow town fans and wrecking shop for well over a decade (collectively) before promptly bouncing and washing their hands of responsibility with a lot of finger pointing and double talk. Frankly I think we deserve better.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

This was a tremendous headfake by Altman. Kudos to him. For 5-6 days, the basketball internet couldn’t stop talking about how stupid a GM would have to be to pay a 1st rounder to the Lakers so they could finally get off Clarkson’s money and make room for Lebron. This man Altman gave the Lakers a 1st, in a Lakers salary dump, so that Lebron can go to LA. What a moron.

And this was after he blew the Kyrie trade, whom he traded for essentially just the Brooklyn pick. Vlade should be embarrassed about PapaG? How about handing your biggest rival the second best player in the conference, and top ten player overall, for a low lottery pick? Altman is in way over his head. Vlade has never made a trade as bad as the Kyrie deal. The Sixers deal was bad, sure, but the Kyrie deal is a supernova of idiocy.

So, Altman throws some red meat to Woj. Well played. Except we know Altman is BSing because for two weeks Lebron’s mouthpiece, Brian Windhorst, couldn’t stop talking about how the Kings and Cavs were looking for a third team to take PapaG and/or Richardson since we didn’t have the roster spots. This man Altman even floated Skal’s name to try to get other teams on the phone. Koby, you played yourself, and Lebron will make you look like an idiot come July.

Woj does hate the Kings, or more specifically, Vlade and Vivek. Woj and Bobby Marks go way back with PDA. He’ll take shots whenever he gets the chance. Of course, the Weasel is doing such a great job in Orando now, too. Anyway, our structure is not unique, as pointed out on another board. If you deal with the Spurs, you negotiate with Buford, who then runs it by president/coach Popovich, and then they get ownership approval. Or T-Wolves...Layden-Thibs-ownership approval. And on down the line. It must be hard negotiating with the Cavs though—work with Altman, who then runs things by Lebron and his people, and then get Gilbert to sign off. What a goat rope.

Last thing, when did it start being OK to make fun of people for their language skills? English is Vlade’s 4th language? 5th? 3rd? I don’t even know. Nor do I care. But this incessent bullying of his language skills, and what they are trying to imply, is really disconcerting and borders on xenophobic. To my knowledge, Vlade is the first European to truly run an NBA team. That should be celebrated, and he brings unique experience and ideas to the job. Instead we get the constant derision. Even Zach Lowe, who claims to spend every summer in Croatia/Serbia and allegedly speaks some Serbian, joins in. One would think a real journalist with knowledge of the area, and maybe the one guy who can have a conversation with Vlade in his native tongue, would make the effort for a really interesting long form piece. I guess Zach is not the journalist he claims to be.

 

[whozit]

........



And now defend Vlade as some kind of misunderstood genius because he got the draft rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic and was willing to give him the biggest rookie contact in history

......

Umm, you might want to look at some of the rookie contracts given before the salary cap was put into being. He only got the contract he did was because he had the patience to wait.

Vlade isn't a savoir. Vlade has made mistakes. One thing I have liked about him, he has recognized at least some of the mistakes and taken corrective action quickly.

 

[King Baller]

He got the laker’s first with MCW and our first with nothing. That is the negotiation skill we need. I am just afraid of every trade coming out to be fleeced when Vlade is the one in charge

I liked the trade downs Vlade made. 10th for JJ and Giles looks great. 8th for Bogs and Skal looks great too.

Unfortunately there is a lot of bad too. Sixers trade was god awfull. Papa G pick at 13th was horrible. Not being able to commit on rebuilding is a massive error for Vlade. Not being able to gather assets is a huge mistake. Butchering our cap situation with Zbo and Hill signings was bad. With proper cap management, using that space to gain draft picks and maximizing the value of our pick and the value of our assets and not doing that damn sixer trade, we could be in an awesome position. We could have 40+mil cap space, our own pick and the king of the sellers market for bad contracts.

That sixers trade was literally a rookie mistake where Hinkie compleatly fooled Vlade. Vlade has potential to be a good gm but unfortunately he had to make all these massive mistakes as a part of his learning curve with Kings. It pains me to even think how well we could be positioned for the future.

The thing is if you look at the draft picks made by Hinkie they were mostly poor choices.

Are you guys not satisfied with the way the team is playing? Do you not see the improvement? The back court of Fox and Bogie is going to be special. Having Mason and Hield coming off the bench is first class depth.

My only fear is that the Young Fellas are going to click together after the All Star break and start winning more games. This is going to drive the Lin crowd crazy. Which will once again be Vlade's fault

If you want to see some bad trades look at what Philly did prior to this last draft or what Denver did with pick 14

 

[King Baller]

Occam's Razor?

How about this: "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior"?

 

[sactowndog]

1st Bold:Are you basically saying Vlade is not an idiot if he signs the player you want, and if he doesn't he goes back to being an idiot?

2nd Bold: That's pretty much what a lot fans feel about most of his tenure.

Not trying to pick, but there are some ( me at least ) that don't love every move or hate every move. Hence my not calling for a GM's/Coaches/Players head at first sight of something perplexing. I at least try let it play out until there is obviously no chance of salvation.

No, It’s not a question of who I like or don’t like. It’s Herzonja is a rational explanation for the, yet again, abrupt change in strategy.

My issue with the Kings has been execute a plan for longer than 6 months. The list of draft picks we have released or traded away early is lengthy as are the shifts in strategy. At first glance the latest moves looks like more of the same.

However, I’m not sure at the time of the Hill signing Vlade could have known Herzonja’s option would have not been picked up by the Magic. Everyone one else’s contract situation he should have known. Add to that we aren’t signing Lebron but we likely have a good chance of signing Herzonja. So in this set of circumstances the yet again abrupt shift in strategy has a reasonable explanation other than the Kings are completely dysfunctional and can’t stay with a plan for longer than 6 months.

Perhaps the truth is we are completely dysfunctional. Plenty of evidence exists to support that position. But I would prefer to hold on to some shred of hope a reasonable explanation for this last sudden shift is out there.

 

[jcassio]

While there are a few moves I did not agree with from Vlade, overall Vlade has done a good job in acquiring some young talent to build on.

For me, Vlade absolutely needs to nail this upcoming draft pick in 2018, since we don't have one in 2019. He can't allow that 2019 pick to wind up being a top 3 pick, so he needs to get that impact player in this years draft, so the Kings can be competitive next year.

I would like for him to concentrate on drafting the best player possible from whatever number we are drafting and not trading back for additional picks, like he has done in the past. We need Quality over Quantity now, we need that Alpha scorer.

This summer, since we probably can't sign a top free agent, unless we massively overpay again (i.e. George Hill), I would like for Vlade to use some of the salary cap space and take a player in a salary dump, and get a 2019 draft pick back, to make up for the one lost in that Philly trade.

If Harry Giles is the real deal and we grow with our current players and add a top flight player in this years draft, we should be on a course to at least challenge for the #8 playoff spot, sooner, rather than later.

GO KINGS!!!

I agree, especially the point about us needing quality over quantity in this year’s draft.
I also agree about taking the best player available when you’re picking high in a draft. But as you know, sometimes there’s not a clear consensus about which one is the BPA. So unless that rank order is clear, I don’t want our top pick to be spent on a PG or SG.

 

[Dongoodboy]

The thing is if you look at the draft picks made by Hinkie they were mostly poor choices.

Are you guys not satisfied with the way the team is playing? Do you not see the improvement? The back court of Fox and Bogie is going to be special. Having Mason and Hield coming off the bench is first class depth.

My only fear is that the Young Fellas are going to click together after the All Star break and start winning more games. This is going to drive the Lin crowd crazy. Which will once again be Vlade's fault

If you want to see some bad trades look at what Philly did prior to this last draft or what Denver did with pick 14

Maybe we have different view about special, KAT, Embiid, Greek Freak is very "special", Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Ben Simmons not on that level but still special. Fox and Bogi, to be honest I don't think they are special because they haven't shown sign to be that good. I could be very wrong and I hope I am. I want to be optimistic but the experience with the Kings in the past 10 years suggest I should not.

Denver and Philly still good after those trades, they got so much draft asset, and we got so little. Our trade with Philly and Boogie trade is enough to be example of bad trade

 

[King Baller]

I agree, especially the point about us needing quality over quantity in this year’s draft.
I also agree about taking the best player available when you’re picking high in a draft. But as you know, sometimes there’s not a clear consensus about which one is the BPA. So unless that rank order is clear, I don’t want our top pick to be spent on a PG or SG.

Not to single you out Jcassio but using your "quality over quantity" statement who do you pick at #8 in 2016? My point is that it is not easy to predict how players turn out in the NBA. As Vlade demonstrated in 2016 sometimes the best move is to have multiple picks.