King Baller
All-Star
It's Rising Star Challenge not all star game. Emmanuel Mudiay, Jahlil Okafor, D'Angelo Russell, Álex Abrines was in the game last year. Surely it's an strong evidence of player being special.
Well I will enjoy watching the game
It's Rising Star Challenge not all star game. Emmanuel Mudiay, Jahlil Okafor, D'Angelo Russell, Álex Abrines was in the game last year. Surely it's an strong evidence of player being special.
So you don't think Denver botched it by giving up Mitchell? How about the beloved Philly giving up Tatum. How do you explain Philly's handing of MCW, Okafor and Noel. Point is those teams make mistakes also but they seem to get a pass.
As far as how you rate the Kings Young Fellas they are all in the show at the All Star weekend. So someone thinks they are special
Actually I will choose to continue to disagree with you on Denver trading away Mitchell being worse. Mitchell is a known quantity and the pick Vlade traded is unknown. He did get Belinelli--> Malachi --> Bruno and still has Kosta from that transaction so your continued assertion he got "nothing" from that trade is false.
I like Vlade OK. I suspect I defend him because so many of the Vlade antagonists rail to the extreme against his moves. Sure he has made errors. But he has assembled an exciting young corps of players who are starting to show out.
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Sixers trade and Denver trade are completely different. Or otherwise you could say Vlade made a huge mistake as well by not drafting him at 10. At least Denver had some logic behind the trade. They traded down from 13 to 24 and got a young player as well. They just misevaluated Mitchell like any other team in the league (Kings included). It didnt pan out well so it was a bad trade but it was a regular trade down.
Sixer trade had no solid logic behind it. We gave away our 1st rounder and swap rights to dump contracts we could have either stretched or just kept. It was a horrible trade from the beginning and it looked like a professional gm Hinkie just completely fooled a rookie gm.
Denver made a mistake evaluating Mitchell but so did the 12 teams in front of him, including Kings twice. If you say Denvers trade was worse as a trade, then you have to say Vlade made the same mistake at 10th.
The team absolutely had to start winning immediately with Cousins or we could not afford to keep him at the price he was expecting (and deserved).Sixer trade had no solid logic behind it. We gave away our 1st rounder and swap rights to dump contracts we could have either stretched or just kept. It was a horrible trade from the beginning and it looked like a professional gm Hinkie just completely fooled a rookie gm.
The team absolutely had to start winning immediately with Cousins or we could not afford to keep him at the price he was expecting (and deserved).
It was a huge gamble that didn't pay off but we really couldn't just keep useless bodies on the roster or tie up that money.
The team absolutely had to start winning immediately with Cousins or we could not afford to keep him at the price he was expecting (and deserved).
It was a huge gamble that didn't pay off but we really couldn't just keep useless bodies on the roster or tie up that money.
The biggest mistake Vlade made was being overconfident of his ability. Part of the learning curve.I think this "oh just stretch everyone" is very shortsighted but I get that some people are in love with the idea. The move from 3 to 5 really cost us little as we'd probably have taken Fox either way. But yes he should have put top 3 lotto protections on these things.
They needed the space to make the offers they did. That Vlade didn't realize Sacramento is where FA go to jack up their bids, that was part of the learning curve.
I'm really not defending it but I just think it's been beaten to death. With the benefit of hindsight it was an extremely poor deal. Had the signings paid off it's probably best not to have stretched those contracts and had dead money on the books in the run up to maxing out Cousins. It also isn't the worst move a GM has ever made in NBA history and when you figure in it was an early mistake in his career it's fairly acceptable even though it's a bitter pill to swallow.The biggest mistake Vlade made was being overconfident of his ability. Part of the learning curve.
If he had succeeded we would be having a different conversation. But he didn't and that's on him. Could have been much worse. But wasn't.
I understand what may have been the rationale but also recognize the risks he took. I'm not going to crucify him for that trade.I'm really not defending it but I just think it's been beaten to death. With the benefit of hindsight it was an extremely poor deal. Had the signings paid off it's probably best not to have stretched those contracts and had dead money on the books in the run up to maxing out Cousins. It also isn't the worst move a GM has ever made in NBA history and when you figure in it was an early mistake in his career it's fairly acceptable even though it's a bitter pill to swallow.
The biggest mistake Vlade made was being overconfident of his ability. Part of the learning curve.
If he had succeeded we would be having a different conversation. But he didn't and that's on him. Could have been much worse. But wasn't.
Again, they could have used a stretch and the trades AND STILL SIGNED EVERYONE THEY DID.
https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016...and-impact-of-76ers-trade-v-stretch-provision
This is NOT a matter of ... well if the signing had worked out. This is just a matter of hiring and employing people that have any idea what they are doing.
The cost of stretching JT and Landry was 5 million dollars over 4 years on a 100 million dollar cap. You can "afford" that more than moving back from 3 to 5 and whatever pick the Kings gave up in 2019.
Again, the math is key here. They didn't actually gain cap space they used to sign ANYONE that season. They would have needed that much cap space to sign Wes and Rondo, but they players they ended up signing could have been obtained by flipping Nik for a 2nd rounder that would have never been conveyed and stretching both power forwards. That's no my opinion. That's math. If you disagree, you are just wrong. This is not a matter of opinion. It's math and the order in which they signed players.
They just didn't know what they were doing, didn't want to carry 5 million of dead cap, and didn't appreciate the risks. And a lot of us, myself included said that that the time.
Folks can try to move the goal posts, but the math is the math. They could have signed everybody they did by using the tools that were obvious to any qualified GM (off loading Nik when he was still interesting and using the stretch provision)
Why not wait until we got an agreement from Wes Matthews though? Let's be honest.. I'm sure Koufos and Belinelli would've been there in day 3 of FA. Another thing to keep in mind, nobody even wanted to touch Rondo after his debacle in Dallas. It was a shock he even got $9million...I think when they did the deal, they thought it was necessary in order to sign Matthews. If they had known Wes was off the table they would not have done the deal. That doesn't seem so hard to wrap my head around.
Why not wait until we got an agreement from Wes Matthews though? Let's be honest.. I'm sure Koufos and Belinelli would've been there in day 3 of FA. Another thing to keep in mind, nobody even wanted to touch Rondo after his debacle in Dallas. It was a shock he even got $9million...
it was a move that was clearly not thought out. As some posters above already said, we could've signed Wes Matthews without giving up what we did. Why didn't we do that? that's a costly mistake on Vlade's part.
Again, they could have used a stretch and the trades AND STILL SIGNED EVERYONE THEY DID.
Again, and this is something that you continually fail to acknowledge, by trading Thompson/Landry/Stauskas instead of stretching them the Kings saved $25M of actual cash. If we stretched them, we would have had to pay them. Because we traded them, Philadelphia paid them, which put $25M of cold hard dollar bills - not cap space, that could have also been had by the stretch provision - but actual cash money in our pockets. And this was during an era when, prior to the new arena opening, we were temporarily forfeiting league revenue sharing payments. Exactly the era when we needed cash. Exactly the era when we couldn't afford to stretch somebody and have to pay them ON TOP of our salary obligations.
Bottom line, your repeated contention that we could have done exactly the same thing with the stretch provision with exactly the same results, and therefore we stupidly threw away a draft pick and a pick swap for absolutely nothing is simply wrong. We traded a draft pick and a pick swap for $25M of actual cash. It's perfectly fine to make the case that giving up a pick and swap for $25M is getting ripped off, because at least it recognizes the reality of the situation. Making the case that we gave up a pick and a swap for absolutely nothing because we were stupid and didn't know any better is simply wrong.
I'm sorry but even if you think these moves were all bad and ignore the rationale for them, it seems a bit of BS to basically repeat them 3-4 times while you gloss over the good. The Philly trade counts as one thing. Drafting Malachi and Papa is one thing. Barnes is one thing.
And frankly all the vet signings this year have Joerger all over them. VC has been a positive so you ding him for his pay. I mean this is just piling on at some point. I feel like sometimes the only reason I defend Vlade is because of over the top posts like these.
Him being a non-native speaker has nothing to do with him being a bad GM. He's made more bad moves than good. In bold are all his poor moves. In green are his good moves. The rest are meh moves.
1. Trade Stauskas+JT+Landry+2016 swap+2017 swap+2019 1st round pick for cap space
2. Signed Rajon Rondo using that cap space
3. Signed Koufos+Belinelli
3. Drafted WCS at #5
4. Signed Seth Curry
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5. Trade #8 pick for 13, 28, and Bogdanovic
6. Drafted Georgios Papagiannis with 13th pick (upsetted our franchise C)
7. Drafted Skal Labissiere with 28th pick
8. Traded Marco Belinelli for 22nd pick
9. Drafted Malachi Richardson with 22nd pick
10. Sign 30yearold Garrett Temple to a 3 year $24million contract
11. Sign 31yearold Arron Affalo to a 2 year $25million (2nd year partially guaranteed)
12. Sign 32yearold Anthony Tolliver to a 2 year $16million (2nd year partially guaranteed)
13. Sign and keep Ty Lawson after numerous character problems
14. Sign 34yearold Matt Barnes to a 2 year $12million despite his poor character
15. Traded DeMarcus Cousins for Buddy Hield, 10th pick, Tyreke Evans, and Langston Galloway
16. Waived Matt Barnes
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(Kings get the #3 overall pick in the lotto, but Vlade's first trade allowed Philly to swap their 5th pick with us)
17. Drafted DeAaron Fox with the 5th pick
18. Traded #10 pick for 15 and 22
19. Drafted Justin Jackson with 10th pick
20. Drafted Harry Giles with 22nd pick
21. Drafted Frank Mason with the 2nd round pick
22. Sign Bogdanovic to a 3 year $27million
23. Sign 31yearold George Hill to a 3 year $57million contract (3rd year partial guarantee)
24. Sign 36yearold Zach Randolph to a 2 year $24million, and faced no repercussions after getting caught with a lb of weed
25. Sign 40yearold Vince Carter to a 1 year $9million (lol do you think anyone was seriously going to give him more than the vet min?)
26. Pick up Georgios Papagiannis' 3rd year option
27. Traded George Hill for Iman Shumpert and Joe Johnson(cap relief. tried to undo his mistake signing)
28. Traded away Malachi Richardson(former #22 pick) for Bruno Caboclo (giving up on Malachi and basically clearing a roster spot)
29. Waived Georgios Papagiannis(former #13 pick who he called a future All Star)
As you can see...he's had way more bad moves as a GM than good or even average. Vlade gets a bad rep because he hasn't made many good moves. Plus, he publicly admitted that he had better offers out there for Cousins, but he took too long on a deal and ended up getting less for him. Vlade's lack of English has nothing to do with his GM abilities. Communication might be a barrier between him and other FOs, but his actions speak for himself.
What your asking IS a legit concern. Vivek is the managing partner but reportedly only owns 20% of the team. He was and is not what they termed Burkle, a whale. After he sold his shares in Tibco(?), how much more does he have. (i.e. sources of revenue)So, for CF and and handful of folks not rocking the false "we needed the cap space" or "most objective people didn't think the risk was excessive at the time" ...
Your theory is that, we somewhat understood the risk and it was about the money? Since that's reported in zero other places, I have some follow up questions. Sure revenue sharing was a factor, but in your mind were the Kings: not properly capitalized / liquid; or properly funded and just sometimes unreasonably cheap? That's a pretty huge distinction so I'm sincerely curious what you think and not just trolling like most here.
I'm good with the term "unreasonable," because accidentally selling an unprotected super high 2019 pick for 25 million dollars is objectively unreasonable. The last time something like that happened was the Barron Davis trade to Cleveland and that was both Sterling and the trade was agreed to be malpractice as soon as folks found out the pick was unprotected.
Follow up question CF, are you aware that most of the contractors working on the condos near the arena received a demand for a 10% pay cut and then had to sue to get full pay? Does this factor into your assessment that the team is sufficiently liquid and/or not unreasonably cheap?
My concern is for tomorrow. What happens when the next max contract comes due? Do we get cold feet again, if that played a part with Boogie?If Vivek, Mastrov etc just barely found enough nickels under sofa cushions to barely buy the team, and then had to scrimp a bit in the early going (insufficiently liquid/unreasonably cheap)... I don't care. I don't care one bit and I give them a mulligan on the last 3-4 years if that was the motivation.
I remember seeing Mastrov & Stern at Oracle Arena and thinking hoping praying "please somehow make this miracle happen".
So if we had lean coffers for a few years after - so what. To me - that's fine.
Again, and this is something that you continually fail to acknowledge, by trading Thompson/Landry/Stauskas instead of stretching them the Kings saved $25M of actual cash. If we stretched them, we would have had to pay them. Because we traded them, Philadelphia paid them, which put $25M of cold hard dollar bills - not cap space, that could have also been had by the stretch provision - but actual cash money in our pockets. And this was during an era when, prior to the new arena opening, we were temporarily forfeiting league revenue sharing payments. Exactly the era when we needed cash. Exactly the era when we couldn't afford to stretch somebody and have to pay them ON TOP of our salary obligations.
Bottom line, your repeated contention that we could have done exactly the same thing with the stretch provision with exactly the same results, and therefore we stupidly threw away a draft pick and a pick swap for absolutely nothing is simply wrong. We traded a draft pick and a pick swap for $25M of actual cash. It's perfectly fine to make the case that giving up a pick and swap for $25M is getting ripped off, because at least it recognizes the reality of the situation. Making the case that we gave up a pick and a swap for absolutely nothing because we were stupid and didn't know any better is simply wrong.
So, for CF and and handful of folks not rocking the false "we needed the cap space" or "most objective people didn't think the risk was excessive at the time" ...
Your theory is that, we somewhat understood the risk and it was about the money? Since that's reported in zero other places, I have some follow up questions. Sure revenue sharing was a factor, but in your mind were the Kings: not properly capitalized / liquid; or properly funded and just sometimes unreasonably cheap? That's a pretty huge distinction so I'm sincerely curious what you think and not just trolling like most here.
I'm good with the term "unreasonable," because accidentally selling an unprotected super high 2019 pick for 25 million dollars is objectively unreasonable. The last time something like that happened was the Barron Davis trade to Cleveland and that was both Sterling and the trade was agreed to be malpractice as soon as folks found out the pick was unprotected.
Follow up question CF, are you aware that most of the contractors working on the condos near the arena received a demand for a 10% pay cut and then had to sue to get full pay? Does this factor into your assessment that the team is sufficiently liquid and/or not unreasonably cheap?