Fear the Putin
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He does it when he needs to. For example with Kobe, you have to be dirty when he gets away with so much. When guys try to hit Harping back after battling inside, he does what he has to do to impose his will on others.
[UTA/LAL]Talk about a paradox
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He does it when he needs to. For example with Kobe, you have to be dirty when he gets away with so much. When guys try to hit Harping back after battling inside, he does what he has to do to impose his will on others.
tradepeja
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Yeah Harpring probably one of the few people on the Jazz I've respected over the past few years. You can tell the guy just is not that physically gifted or talented with the game, but he plays hard and is extremely tough.
You could say the same thing about Bowen I guess, I just think he is not tough at all and completely resorts to dirty play at any chance possible. I think thats a view a lot of us share
Gargamel
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So then the 70s and 80s era guys didn't play real D because they were allowed to handcheck?
I think the name on the back may be clouding your judgment a bit. I don't even think he's what you'd call a "great" defender. He's decent overall. He can lag off at times, he can dig in when he wants. BUT...if you're not trying to swipe for the ball or doing whatever you can get away with, then you're a soft defender, period. That's the kind of thing that the guy you adore does (Harpring). He bumps and elbows freely. That's what Malone used to do (swipe at the ball). I assure you, he was dirty, but no one would call him "not a real defender" at the end of the day. Derek Harper had the best straight-arm handcheck in the league. I assure you, no one would call him "not a real defender" at the end of the day.
One of the Jazz's mantras is to bump and prod all night because they know the refs can't call all of it.
It's playoff basketball. You've seen it before, you know what it is.
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Fear the Putin
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Were not talking about someone being a soft defender or not, but rather using his star power to get away with calls. He chooses when he wants to play defense and when he does its usually against a superstar so everybody then proclaims him an "incredible defender".
As for the 70's, 80's comparison. Yes, in that era many defenders would handcheck without any conscience, but THE MAIN DIFFERENCE is that they were on the receiving end as well. Kobe has what? 52 free throw attempts in 3 games. Kobe does it in an era where if you breathe on the opponent, you get called for a blocking foul. Yet, he knows he can get away with it and does it. But, still cries on the other end when he doesnt get every single call.
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Gargamel
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You're not going to convince me that superstar protection just came along in Kobe's era. I've seen the Bad Boy Pistons, the Bird Celts, Showtime, the MJ 90s, and Shaq. Iverson can literally draw a foul at any time. In Gm2, he flailed on a minor bump and looked over his shoulder at the ref for the call in mid air before he actually released the shot. David Robinson in 95 was so untouchable that Vlade Divac cried after a playoff game. Sabonis has literally cried on the bench after fouling out against Shaq.
I'm also not putting all my stock into the "can't breathe on him" argument when considering the opponent is Utah. They lead the league in fouls per game; are notorious for how physical they are; and they have Ronnie Brewer guarding Kobe, who is woefully mismatched athletically. They expect not to be called on over-the-backs and pushoffs and they're not tagged for 100% of them because they do that stuff ALL game. From start to finish. I can post footage of Bobby Hansen and Bart Kofoed bumping Magic full court for 48 mins some 20 yrs ago. I can post footage of Kareem swinging elbows in anger at Mark Eaton and Mel Turpin. It's a cultural thing with that org, their coach was one of the most tenacious defenders ever. It's the major reason why they've been so successful at home over the years while being so mediocre on the road. When Jackson says their crowd intimidates the refs, it's one of the few times where he's not spewing hyperbole. Those fans dump trash on them to keep them in line.
Now note that Sloan said Kobe's FTs weren't an issue in Gm1 (during an in-game interview). When he's down in the series, he changes his tune and plays the refs and media for more leeway. He got it in Gm3. But do I feel bad that Kobe gets fouls called his way against Utah? Not really, they get away with it elsewhere for the most part. The guy you adore is busy chestbumping people and Booze is busy pushing off and coming over Pau. Meh...let em. LA needs to get some experience w/ this kind of team for later. Pau is taking heat from LA media and Jackson for whining about physical play. It's because the Jazz are hoping for that kind of reaction, you need to be tough to beat them.
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Fear the Putin
Starter
your not getting me are you?
Back in the day if you gave out punishment, or rather played tenacious, or dirty D, you would get it coming to you on the other end of the floor.
Today, you can literally draw comparisons to ballet and drama plays with all these ridiculous flops, crying, and overexaggerated shocking impulses. Add to the fact that today's NBA is MADE for the offensive player.
That being said, Kobe realizes that and takes advantage of his superstar nature knowing that the same will not be handed back to him on the other end of the floor. If you notice, Kobe is intimidated by bigger, stronger defenders. Even a a guy like Kenyon Martin who was never known to be a perimeter defender. When George Karl switched him on Kobe, he started to body up on him and force him to be a jumpshooter. You can automatically see kobe's body language as he started to drift towards jumpers from outside in an effort to beat Kenyon. Guys like Artest, Kobe always seems intimidated and now against Harping, its the same thing. He would rather shoot a jumper against bigger, stronger guys than do anything else that would draw contact since there will always be extracurricular activity with the contact.
So...the defense that Kobe is allowed to play is nowhere near on par to what is allowed to go against Kobe.
Jordan, Bird, Magic and many others have obviously gotten superstar calls.
No question, you are correct. But, they have all received an enormous amount of punishment on their own behalf. Jordan was devoured by the Pistons back in the day. Both the Celtics and Lakers took out Bird and Magic. The Pistons once again tore Bird and Magic a new one.
But, Kobe? What kind of punishment has he taken other than a clothesline from Raja Bell? All I see is bump....*whistle*. Touch his elbow....*whistle*. Slips....*whistle*.
Even without the superstar status, those fouls are carried out on a regular basis, which is a continued testament to how soft the league is today. The Jazz are actually playing the kind of ball that is supposed to be played. They send ballerina floppers back where they came from.
RKid
Bench
"Kobe is intimidated by bigger, stronger defenders. Guys like Artest, Kobe always seems intimidated and now against Harping"
When was the last time that Artest intimidated Kobe into shooting jumpers? because I have not seen that since Artest hit Sacramento.
I doubt that any player in the NBA intimidates Kobe, but there are players that give him a lot of trouble. Tayshaun Prince and Shane Battier to name a few, but I would not say that they intimidate him.
When was the last time that Artest intimidated Kobe into shooting jumpers? because I have not seen that since Artest hit Sacramento.
I doubt that any player in the NBA intimidates Kobe, but there are players that give him a lot of trouble. Tayshaun Prince and Shane Battier to name a few, but I would not say that they intimidate him.
Gargamel
Starter
Strained shoulder by Reggie Evans.
Strained shoulder by Ira Newble.
Hacks to the ribs from Scottie after reports of a strained oblique.
Sprained ankle on a well-placed foot by Raja Bell.
Sprained ankle on a well-placed foot by Bruce Bowen.
Trod-on wrist by a well-placed step by Bruce Bowen.
Bloodied head by Mike Miller.
Bloodied face by Baron Davis.
Punches thrown by Chris Childs.
I'm not getting you.
How is the league's stand on certain types of contact Kobe's fault? You seem to be making that a slight against him. If you weren't doing that, then what happened in previous eras wouldn't be relevant to what happens today. These "benefits" would apply to other superstars around the league too, no?
I'm not getting you.
If Kobe is taking advantage of what is already there, how is that a negative? Should he pattern his defense after Vince Carter to even things up?
I'm not getting you.
Kobe is bothered on the perimeter by Kenyon Martin?!
I'm not getting you. You missed a few games there. And he drove to the rim plenty o' times against the Nuggets with both Martin and Najera waiting. That is a joke if you think he's intimidated from driving to the rim at THIS point of his career. That's why he's never posterized a taller man, I guess (sarcasm).
Okay, wait...
Okur gets a technical for a frustration fist pump and Kobe does exactly the same thing, but as an exclamation point AND adds "M***** F******" in the bargain and he gets to the line on a +1.
Could someone, even a Laker fan, please explain the difference to me?
blech...
Okur gets a technical for a frustration fist pump and Kobe does exactly the same thing, but as an exclamation point AND adds "M***** F******" in the bargain and he gets to the line on a +1.
Could someone, even a Laker fan, please explain the difference to me?
blech...
Okay, this may actually work out for the Jazz. Both Gasol and Fisher are playing with 5 fouls, which could be huge in OT. And if the brave little soldier is, in fact, suffering from back problems (which always has to be in question considering his flair for the dramatic), any break can cause his back to stiffen up.
And, of course, we always have the Walton factor.
And, of course, we always have the Walton factor.
ShatteredVision
Bench
Give the Jazz fans credit, cannot hear any Laker fans at that Energy Solutions Arena...
Kobe pretty much cost them that game. If he let his teammates have the ball more towards the end of the forth and during OT when he was obviously hurting they probably win this game. Not that I am complaining or anything. This series is going 7 games. Its a battle out there. Price was awesome coming up with that massive block after Turiaf threw him down.
sloter
Starter
I don't think that has to do much with him being a Laker.
After all, he comes from this school of basketball...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=siKWh0DkCz8
Gasol has been doing that since he got drafted. I use to follow the Grizzlies ...
bozzwell
Starter
It's worth watching just for the last few seconds...
tradepeja
Starter
Wow. Game 5 was almost good, until the refs forgot what a push off was.
You know, the thing Pau did about 4 times at the end of the 4th, including twice in the final two Laker possessions, both ending in scores.
Seemed obvious to me that a Utah big was flying out from under Pau after ever offensive rebound. Somehow though, the refs missed it every time.
Odd.
You know, the thing Pau did about 4 times at the end of the 4th, including twice in the final two Laker possessions, both ending in scores.
Seemed obvious to me that a Utah big was flying out from under Pau after ever offensive rebound. Somehow though, the refs missed it every time.
Odd.
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