Come on, now, VF: I'm all for the Kings staying in Sacramento, but there's no need to take it out on Hampton Roads.
UPDATED: Va. Beach mayor sketches out proposed arena deal
- Thread starter Mike0476
- Start date
I couldn't possibly care less about Hampton Roads, but I don't think that was my point. My point was that there has been NO credible information coming out of Virginia Beach thus far. What I've seen has been more along the lines of wishful thinking. The idea that Ch. 10 would break into any programming to show an artist's rendering of a proposed arena and say it might be the Kings new home disgusted me beyond all rational thought. If that hurts Hampton Roads feelings, then they'll have to learn to deal with it.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Its all part of the plot to disenfranchise the fans, especially those of us who don't frequent these forums to make us give up hope. Maloofs can go stuff it. As far as I see it, even if they take the Kings... our fan base is too good to not have a team eventually, and it will be that much sweeter when we are kicking there *** right out of the league.
Not everyone in Virginia is ready to bankroll the Maloofs comeback:
http://m.hamptonroads.com/svc/wlws.svc/getHtml#article/?sectionId=3598&feedId=6063&articleId=7042361
VIRGINIA BEACH
General Assembly members on Wednesday greeted the city’s pitch to the state for $150 million to help build an arena and attract a professional sports team with mixed reactions, ranging from tempered enthusiasm to outright dismissal.
A letter asking for money for the $380 million project included a note of urgency, saying a decision is needed in this General Assembly session, which kicks off in January, to start construction on the arena next year and have a team playing there in 2015.
In bold print, the letter said: “Without financial participation from the Commonwealth, this project cannot move forward.”
Under a deal sketched out by Mayor Will Sessoms to the City Council on Tuesday night, the city would contribute $195 million, and Comcast-Spectacor, the Philadelphia-based sports and entertainment company that would lease and operate the arena and is working to recruit the pro sports team, would put in $35 million.
Sources have said since August that the target tenant for the 18,500-seat arena is the NBA’s Sacramento Kings.
The $150 million requested from the state includes $70 million to build the arena and $80 million to help the team relocate.
Del. Bob Tata of Virginia Beach, an appropriations committee member, called the arena concept “pie in the sky.”
“This is a beer and pretzel town,” he said. “Realistically, if I had to vote on it, I’d vote no. I just can’t see. Pro sports, it’s a tough racket. It’s here today, gone tomorrow.”
He said he doesn’t think an NBA team could be successful in Virginia Beach if it can’t make it in Sacramento, the capital of California.
“The lobbyists alone ought to be able to fill up the arena every game,” he said.
“My initial response is, I’m not in favor of it,” said Del. Chris Jones of Suffolk, also an appropriations committee member. “In tight economic times, taking away from other core functions of government, I’m not sure it’s the right thing to do.”
State Sen. Frank Wagner of Virginia Beach, a member of the finance committee, said he’d carry legislation to allow sales tax generated by the arena to be used to cover payments on money borrowed for construction.
“Does that generate enough? That’s the question,” he said. “If the numbers work out, I’m going to support it.”
State Sen. Jeff McWaters of Virginia Beach said he wants to closely examine the business case for the arena.
“That’s a lot of money,” he said. “I’d have to look through a business plan to see how we get repaid. I don’t have anywhere near the facts I need.”
Del. Ron Villanueva of Virginia Beach said, “Anytime you bring in jobs and help promote the state and locality, it’s worth looking at. We have to do our due diligence to make it a win-win situation.”
The $80 million in state funds sought to help the team move includes a $30 million relocation fee paid to the “governing league of professional sports franchise.” The NBA’s Seattle Supersonics paid a $30 million relocation fee to the NBA in 2008 when the team moved to Oklahoma City, according to published reports.
An NBA spokesman declined to comment on the league’s relocation fees.
The city’s request also includes $8 million for corporate relocation costs and $42 million to cover estimated team losses while playing in a smaller venue in Virginia for two seasons while the arena is under construction. That venue has not been named.
John Broderick, president of Old Dominion University, said neither he nor the school has been contacted about using the Ted Constant Convocation Center.
The city’s request for money went to the Virginia Economic Development Partnership, a state agency overseen by a board of directors appointed by the governor and the General Assembly.
A spokesperson for the partnership said in an email that the group “does not comment on unannounced projects, speculated or otherwise. Any significant financial funding request would be vetted and measured to determine the benefit to Virginia tax-payers.”
Peter Luukko, president and chief operating officer for Comcast-Spectacor, is scheduled to give a presentation about the deal to the City Council on Tuesday.
Sessoms said a vote on the arena by the City Council likely would be early next year.
http://m.hamptonroads.com/svc/wlws.svc/getHtml#article/?sectionId=3598&feedId=6063&articleId=7042361
VIRGINIA BEACH
General Assembly members on Wednesday greeted the city’s pitch to the state for $150 million to help build an arena and attract a professional sports team with mixed reactions, ranging from tempered enthusiasm to outright dismissal.
A letter asking for money for the $380 million project included a note of urgency, saying a decision is needed in this General Assembly session, which kicks off in January, to start construction on the arena next year and have a team playing there in 2015.
In bold print, the letter said: “Without financial participation from the Commonwealth, this project cannot move forward.”
Under a deal sketched out by Mayor Will Sessoms to the City Council on Tuesday night, the city would contribute $195 million, and Comcast-Spectacor, the Philadelphia-based sports and entertainment company that would lease and operate the arena and is working to recruit the pro sports team, would put in $35 million.
Sources have said since August that the target tenant for the 18,500-seat arena is the NBA’s Sacramento Kings.
The $150 million requested from the state includes $70 million to build the arena and $80 million to help the team relocate.
Del. Bob Tata of Virginia Beach, an appropriations committee member, called the arena concept “pie in the sky.”
“This is a beer and pretzel town,” he said. “Realistically, if I had to vote on it, I’d vote no. I just can’t see. Pro sports, it’s a tough racket. It’s here today, gone tomorrow.”
He said he doesn’t think an NBA team could be successful in Virginia Beach if it can’t make it in Sacramento, the capital of California.
“The lobbyists alone ought to be able to fill up the arena every game,” he said.
“My initial response is, I’m not in favor of it,” said Del. Chris Jones of Suffolk, also an appropriations committee member. “In tight economic times, taking away from other core functions of government, I’m not sure it’s the right thing to do.”
State Sen. Frank Wagner of Virginia Beach, a member of the finance committee, said he’d carry legislation to allow sales tax generated by the arena to be used to cover payments on money borrowed for construction.
“Does that generate enough? That’s the question,” he said. “If the numbers work out, I’m going to support it.”
State Sen. Jeff McWaters of Virginia Beach said he wants to closely examine the business case for the arena.
“That’s a lot of money,” he said. “I’d have to look through a business plan to see how we get repaid. I don’t have anywhere near the facts I need.”
Del. Ron Villanueva of Virginia Beach said, “Anytime you bring in jobs and help promote the state and locality, it’s worth looking at. We have to do our due diligence to make it a win-win situation.”
The $80 million in state funds sought to help the team move includes a $30 million relocation fee paid to the “governing league of professional sports franchise.” The NBA’s Seattle Supersonics paid a $30 million relocation fee to the NBA in 2008 when the team moved to Oklahoma City, according to published reports.
An NBA spokesman declined to comment on the league’s relocation fees.
The city’s request also includes $8 million for corporate relocation costs and $42 million to cover estimated team losses while playing in a smaller venue in Virginia for two seasons while the arena is under construction. That venue has not been named.
John Broderick, president of Old Dominion University, said neither he nor the school has been contacted about using the Ted Constant Convocation Center.
The city’s request for money went to the Virginia Economic Development Partnership, a state agency overseen by a board of directors appointed by the governor and the General Assembly.
A spokesperson for the partnership said in an email that the group “does not comment on unannounced projects, speculated or otherwise. Any significant financial funding request would be vetted and measured to determine the benefit to Virginia tax-payers.”
Peter Luukko, president and chief operating officer for Comcast-Spectacor, is scheduled to give a presentation about the deal to the City Council on Tuesday.
Sessoms said a vote on the arena by the City Council likely would be early next year.
chief bromden
Starter
It does not appear that Kings are seriously considering moving to VB. I am interested to see how this plays out in terms of leverage for the Maloofs, as some other posters have outlined. In the end, there exists one or more reasons why the Maloofs have continued to let rumors about this persist.
Section 101
All-Star
Funny how they cite the OKC move fee, but not the Anaheim fee. Did they not pay attention to the whole Anaheim deal? Do they think the league would make it $30 mill or a much higher figure.
It's a wildly optimistic number that did not come from the NBA. It's like every other number they have thrown around that is way too low to be realistic.
Interesting:
"The city’s request also includes $8 million for corporate relocation costs and $42 million to cover estimated team losses while playing in a smaller venue in Virginia for two seasons while the arena is under construction. That venue has not been named."
I have a feeling that $42 million plus STA = loan payment to Sacramento.
Sleep Train cannot be used as "payment" on the loan. If they move, either they pay the loan off in cash, or they are in default. And if they're going to go into default, they aren't going to pay $42M first and then default.
Of course, it's very unlikely the NBA will allow them to default on the loan in the first place.
Section 101
All-Star
Plus default = loss of shares of the team to the city.
STA is collateral for the loan. I imagine they will try to use it to get some credit from the city towards repayment of the loan. They may try to play nice at first, but I'm sure they will push real hard for the city to take back STA.
I wonder if partial payment + STA collateral (to cover the remaining loan) keeps the shares safe. Because if they can get away with it without losing the shares of the team, then the city will be the new proud owner of STA...
Section 101
All-Star
It does not work that way. They owe the money to bond holders not the city. The city is the guarantor of the bonds. That means any payments that MSE doesn't pay comes out of the city general fund. Either MSE pays off the loan or they default. If the city were to take STA as partial payment that means they would be paying the bonds out of the general fund. They don't have the money to do that even if they wanted.
If MSE defaults the city gets STA and shares of the team. So why should they take STA as partial payment and help out MSE?
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
so whats stopping them from pulling a donald sterling and haul *** out of sac to VB?
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Well, i think that was explained pretty good the last couple of pages in this thread...oh, and a bunch of guys known as the NBA Board of Governors. Owners cant pull a Sterling anymore, there's hutdles that take time to pass through before a team can move.
Section 101
All-Star
They changed the NBA bylaws after Sterling's move to LA.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Can't help but think this might actually be a positive. I see it failing, and after it does the fanbase has yet another excuse which backs the low attendance. Product is poor and the Maloofs shenanigans obviously play a large part, but some are worried about the low attendance this year and that the Maloofs can use it as a reason for saying this market won't work. Well, they can no longer say that as once again they're publicly opening negotiations with yet another city.
After it fails, I can't see the BOG not thinking, well, of course you've killed the market and the fans didn't show up, you keep negotiating publicly with multiple cities. Can't blame the fans for that. If the product was good and the Maloofs were committed to Sac, then low attendance becomes a much larger issue. But if virginia doesn't work out, they no longer have an excuse for this market not working. They're killing it yet again.
After it fails, I can't see the BOG not thinking, well, of course you've killed the market and the fans didn't show up, you keep negotiating publicly with multiple cities. Can't blame the fans for that. If the product was good and the Maloofs were committed to Sac, then low attendance becomes a much larger issue. But if virginia doesn't work out, they no longer have an excuse for this market not working. They're killing it yet again.
I don't even think it would take a good team - I think if the maloofs had truly committed to Sacramento then attendance would be much better, regardless of the bad results. Not sell-outs every night, but this thing where like 5-6K people are actually showing up probably represents (in my guess) probably between 5-7K fans a night who don't show up simply because the maloofs have jerked Sacramento around SO badly.
macadocious
Starter
Of course, history has shown this. We sold out when we sucked. There are different expectations now.
I won't go now if I have to pay for a ticket. I've been to a handful of game this year because I was invited, but I am not logging on to Kings.com to purchase seats. No way.
I won't go now if I have to pay for a ticket. I've been to a handful of game this year because I was invited, but I am not logging on to Kings.com to purchase seats. No way.
Section 101
All-Star
Just go back to last year. The NBA was here helping with tickets/marketing/etc. They had sold more season tickets while the arena deal was still on. Now after they blew up that deal they lost ticket holders.
Section 101
All-Star
macadocious
Starter
If they were for sure staying. I would also buy tickets if they were for sure staying with the maloofs as owners if they went back to trying to put a winning team on the court and not cuttings costs at every corner.
Arco is being held together by rubber bands.
Last year they had 3 people in charge of the suites, this year, there is one.
Trueblood
Bench
One thing that we haven't touched on is that this VB proposal doesn't fit the NBA's arena model. If the league wants a team in Hampton Roads, then I have to think that the league would prefer a downtown Norfolk building as opposed to one that's in a resort area. Sure, VB gets the majority of the tourists but tourists don't support the local NBA franchise. A downtown Norfolk crib gets the businesses and the fans via public transportation.
That being said, and I still think VB is a leverage ploy, this would actually be a good thing if the ultimate end game for this current team is relocation. If the team were to go to Seattle, the league would most likely be satisfied and leave it at that. They'd be angry about leaving Sac but they'd at least be able to say that they got Seattle back.
OTOH, if the Maloofs make it to Hampton Roads, the league is going to be without 2 desirable markets in Sacramento and Seattle. That will almost force the league's hand and force expansion. The EC will have 16 teams in it's region and the WC would have 14 if the Kings move to VB. Sac and Seattle would even it out to 16 and 16.
Yes, the preferred option is to keep the current team but again, in the event of relocation, a VB move could be something that helps in the long run. No more Maloofs, railyards arena replaces the laughable notion of renovating Arco and we could even force the league to keep the King name in Sacramento as the Maloofs could choose between Royals or letting the locals pick a new name.
That being said, and I still think VB is a leverage ploy, this would actually be a good thing if the ultimate end game for this current team is relocation. If the team were to go to Seattle, the league would most likely be satisfied and leave it at that. They'd be angry about leaving Sac but they'd at least be able to say that they got Seattle back.
OTOH, if the Maloofs make it to Hampton Roads, the league is going to be without 2 desirable markets in Sacramento and Seattle. That will almost force the league's hand and force expansion. The EC will have 16 teams in it's region and the WC would have 14 if the Kings move to VB. Sac and Seattle would even it out to 16 and 16.
Yes, the preferred option is to keep the current team but again, in the event of relocation, a VB move could be something that helps in the long run. No more Maloofs, railyards arena replaces the laughable notion of renovating Arco and we could even force the league to keep the King name in Sacramento as the Maloofs could choose between Royals or letting the locals pick a new name.
kennadog
Dog On It!
The simple fact that there is buyers who want to keep the Kings in Sacramento refutes the Maloofs argument that they can't make it in this market. The league sees potential buyers that say they can and want to make it work in Sacramento. Pretty clear the problem isn't the market, its the Maloofs.
STA and a share of the team are collateral for the bond funds loan. If the city were forced to foreclose, they would then own STA and a portion of the Kings. Unfortunately the total value would not be likely to pay off the bond holders, plus the early payment penalty. As guarantor of the loan, the city then has to pay off the bond holders any remaining balance.
Since public bond financing is a major source of funding for stadiums and arenas across the country, a default and foreclosure on the Kings would be a nightmare for the NBA in particular, but also for other professional sports wanting any amount of public financing for a stadium or arena. As a matter of fact, Virginia Beach would be stupid to provide bond financing for an arena to house a team that screwed another city. Try selling that to tax payers.
STA and a share of the team are collateral for the bond funds loan. If the city were forced to foreclose, they would then own STA and a portion of the Kings. Unfortunately the total value would not be likely to pay off the bond holders, plus the early payment penalty. As guarantor of the loan, the city then has to pay off the bond holders any remaining balance.
Since public bond financing is a major source of funding for stadiums and arenas across the country, a default and foreclosure on the Kings would be a nightmare for the NBA in particular, but also for other professional sports wanting any amount of public financing for a stadium or arena. As a matter of fact, Virginia Beach would be stupid to provide bond financing for an arena to house a team that screwed another city. Try selling that to tax payers.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
things are NOT looking good
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
Ill say this: I believe George Maloof wants out. I believe he's driving the bus. I believe they CAN'T say so. I believe the clock is ticking
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
The arena deal is on the table from the city STILL. It ain't happening. They (Ms) know this market is scorched. Doesn't matter where they go
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
Bottom line, I believe Sac is out of the picture. Seattle, VB, who knows. Eventually they will find a deal and take it.
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
The sliver of hope was the team having success.Ain't happening, and they can't fix it.The city and fans have done ALL they can and then some
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
IMO, the ONLY chance of keeping this team is banking on the Maloofs inability to close a deal elsewhere, for whatever reason.
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
Ill say this: I believe George Maloof wants out. I believe he's driving the bus. I believe they CAN'T say so. I believe the clock is ticking
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
The arena deal is on the table from the city STILL. It ain't happening. They (Ms) know this market is scorched. Doesn't matter where they go
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
Bottom line, I believe Sac is out of the picture. Seattle, VB, who knows. Eventually they will find a deal and take it.
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
The sliver of hope was the team having success.Ain't happening, and they can't fix it.The city and fans have done ALL they can and then some
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
IMO, the ONLY chance of keeping this team is banking on the Maloofs inability to close a deal elsewhere, for whatever reason.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Ya exactly. Dave must have heard something today that we dont know about
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
He also said he thinks Stern and the BOG won't stop Maloofs from polluting another market. Not only that the Maloofs clearly don't want to be here and are just buying time, but that he doesn't think the league would stop a move. Also that there's no way Maloofs would see to a Sac area potential owners.
Yeah, he must have heard something, and now I'm f'ing pissed! I still don't see how Stern and the BOG would allow a move, but it appears CD heard something saying otherwise.
Yeah, he must have heard something, and now I'm f'ing pissed! I still don't see how Stern and the BOG would allow a move, but it appears CD heard something saying otherwise.
I don't disagree with much of what Dave is saying. It's been like this for a while. But the Maloofs were very heavy handed in the way they took their own poison pill. They thought they were just sandbagging the market. They should have noticed that they threw their own reputation into the toilet as well. This could make it very difficult to get a sweet deal from another city. They will have to sell the team if they can't move this year.
