Udoh?

[twslam07]

Does anybody think Udoh is capable of being the rim protector we need next to Cousins? I haven't seen him play much so I can't really say. He averages 2.89 blocks and 7.13 rebound over 36 minutes. So on the stat sheet he looks like he would be a good fit, but I would rather someone who has watched him a little more way in.

We could trade back in the draft and pick him up in the process.

#5

for

#12
#42
Udoh

Other than Ellis and Jennings, Milwaukee doesn't have any star power. They could use a top 5 pick to add another potential star to have their big three of the future. Whether it be Robinson, Drummond, or Barnes.

 

[DesertFox]

I would do it. It's been established that the Kings with their roster are sort of in a tricky spot as far as BPA, and so moving down and picking up assets is not a bad idea.

The Bucks could actually use a swing man so I'd try and toss Outlaw or Garcia in there. Outlaw's cost and Garcia's contract expiring should make them break even as far as trade value, as opposed to Salmons, who is just a negative.

 

[William Blake]

I think we're looking for a starter quality guy to put next to Cousins. A role player but still someone who can play 30-36 minutes a night at a high level, Udoh doesn't seem able to do that.
I'd rather have a shot at Drummond.

 

[twslam07]

I would do it. It's been established that the Kings with their roster are sort of in a tricky spot as far as BPA, and so moving down and picking up assets is not a bad idea.

The Bucks could actually use a swing man so I'd try and toss Outlaw or Garcia in there. Outlaw's cost and Garcia's contract expiring should make them break even as far as trade value, as opposed to Salmons, who is just a negative.

It's funny you mention Outlaw. I was thinking of throwing him in the trade proposals. Their salaries are very close and it would help us loosen up our log jam a bit.

Udoh sounds like everything we would want. 6'10", 7'4.5" wingspan, athletic, good shotblocker, good midrange shooter, and he's young so he can grow with our team. His rebounding seemed like a concern to me. He averages around 5.5 rebounds for 28 minutes of play which doesn't seem very good to me, but he was projected to be a good rebounder coming out of college so maybe there is still hope.

 

[twslam07]

I think we're looking for a starter quality guy to put next to Cousins. A role player but still someone who can play 30-36 minutes a night at a high level, Udoh doesn't seem able to do that.
I'd rather have a shot at Drummond.

What have you seen that makes you think Udoh isn't starter quality? I'm just curious because I haven't seen him play much. He seems to not have many weaknesses. He seems like a more athletic Thompson with better shotblocking. Could be wrong.

I have finally made up my mind about Drummond and I want nothing to do with him. There have been so many players like him who don't end up becoming the player you want them to be (Wright, Randolph). If the desire is not there, we aren't going to be satisfied. I would rather draft a player who will have value even if he doesn't fit the team needs. That way we have at least 1 more asset we can use in a trade. The Kings will have a very difficult time signing any big names to come play here. The draft and trades is where we will make our team better. By drafting Drummond, we are taking a huge risk. We need guys who have more of a chance to reach their potential so we can improve the assets we have and ultimately include them in trades to improve the team. If we were the Lakers, it wouldn't be as much of a risk to draft someone like Drummond because if he doesn't work out they can just go out and sign a Bynum like player to a huge deal. We can't do that. We need our draft picks to reach their potential so they can either perform for our team or have value in trades that we include them in.

 

[DesertFox]

I think we're looking for a starter quality guy to put next to Cousins. A role player but still someone who can play 30-36 minutes a night at a high level, Udoh doesn't seem able to do that.
I'd rather have a shot at Drummond.

I disagree, because in the ideal situation, JT comes back. Inevitably there will be some smallball situations, leaving about 90min for bigs. 30 for Cuz, 20-25 for JT, 20-25 for the shot blocker, and the last 10-15 or so for Hayes and Whiteside to fight out.

Unless you have a Howard or Bynum, the top shot blockers are rotational 20+ minute guys. A Cousins/Udoh/JT trio would work out great, with Hayes as an overpaid but still useful 4th big/mentor.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well hey hey! At least now all of a sudden people are thinking of orignal ways to solve our shotblocking/intimidator problem. Now Udoh himself...kind of a ? For two years now he has put up prolific shotblocking numbers in limited minutes, but been unable to clearly establish himself as a starter on two franhcises that could really have used one. And nice athelte, shotblocker...looks like the right fit we are looking for. But up until now he's really jsut been the guy the Warriors selected when they should have selected Monroe. Go beyond the shotblocking and he shoots poorly and does not rebound, leaving the shotblocking kind of out there alone. Now could he blossom? One would hope. But it would really be a wildcard sort of pickup at this point. Sort of a Hickosn like prayer, except without Hickson's half season of strong work before we picked him up. Be very hard to aquire Udoh and stop and jsut say, problem solved. Is he actually a good defender overall? Is he actually an intimidator? He's got he athelticsma dn the right skill as a shotblocker, but I don't have an answer on the rest.

BTW, don't know if you were thinking of this or not, but bringin up Udoh could be saavy...or unsaavy for us, as of course Smart was his coach his rookie year. So that could be amajor factor in us haivng interest or not. Smart did play him more the second half of his rookie year, but still not tons, and the results (2.1blks in 22.5min, but only .415 shooting and 4.0rebs) are mixed enough you have no idea how he would feel about him.

 

[The_Jamal]

Udoh would be a fantastic fit. There have been several articles written about him about being in the top 10 of +/- and in the top 10 of adjusted +/- even though the stats are seemingly quite average. He seems to be a rare case where the +/- stat in all forms actually applies as his team all of a sudden gets a whole lot better with him on the floor. I always loved the way he played in college and think he has plenty of room to grow with starter minutes.

 

[DesertFox]

The rebounding thing I'm not really worried about. The defensive rebounding struggles are more of a reflection of the Smart's running style than the players, just because of how well the team does on the offensive glass. Cuz is a beast, JT is above average, and Hayes is usually league average (despite his size). So a weak rebounding shot blocker isn't a huge issue.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Hmm, I like Udoh as a Rich mans Joel Anthony type of player for us. Quick enough to guard quick PF's but has the athleticism and strength to guard bigger Centers aswell.
He could be a rotation big for us forsure, Not sure about 30 + minutes per game , but I could see a solid 25 from him (Possibly 30 + in the future).

I actually like this trade because of the 12th pick we would get. That gives us the option of taking Jeff Taylor or Terrence Jones there.

Defensive PF & SF solved. After that make a trade for a cuple veterans andwe would be looking good going into next season.

 

[bajaden]

Well I think everyone here knows how I feel about Udoh. I liked him a lot at Baylor, and I think folks need to remember that he was another of those late to basketball. He was originally recruited by Michigan, where he played two years. Feeling that he wasn't being used right, he sat our a year and then transfered to Baylor, where he showed an improved game. He was a pretty good jumpshooter at Baylor, and was fair his first year with the Warriors. He broke his wrist his first year before the season started, and didn't play in a game until sometime in december I believe. Of course then he was part of the Bogut trade with the Bucks.

To be fair to him, I don't think he's been in one place long enough to settle in and get comfortable. Whether he's starting material or not, is yet to be decided, but at the very least he would bring better defense off the bench. He's been able to block shots at every level. His rebounding needs improving, as does his shot. But considering he's only played two years in the league, I think I can safely say the jury is still out. If he can be had at a reasonable price, I say go for it. This team needs more depth in its front line.

 

[BMiller52]

 

[twslam07]

I really want to see the Kings draft Taylor this year and if we we did this trade we would be picking at 12 which I think would be a little too early to take him. We could then trade back once more and add another veteran to our roster.

#12
Thomas
Hayes

for

#16
Lowry

Some might think we're giving up too much based on the situation Houston is in with Lowry, but I would be willing to give this up if it came down to it. I think everyone by now knows what Lowry brings to the table. Ballhandling, playmaking, 3 point shooting, and defense. I don't see how having Thomas and Lowry on the same team would work. One would have to have their minutes slashed dramatically because of the fact that Thomas and Lowry can't play on the court together due to their size.

Thomas would be a nice backup point behind Dragic and Dragic is big enough where they can have both Thomas and Dragic out there together. Houston and Adelman both think highly of Hayes and they would get to move up 4 spots in the draft.

So if we were to pull off the #5 and Outlaw for #12 and Udoh, then trade #12, Thomas, and Hayes for #16 and Lowry, and select Jeff Taylor at #16, our lineup would look like this:

Lowry/Fredette
Evans/Thornton/Garcia
Taylor/Williams/Salmons/Honeycutt
Thompson/Udoh
Cousins/Whiteside

Not too bad of an offseason, eh?

 

[twslam07]

The rebounding thing I'm not really worried about. The defensive rebounding struggles are more of a reflection of the Smart's running style than the players, just because of how well the team does on the offensive glass. Cuz is a beast, JT is above average, and Hayes is usually league average (despite his size). So a weak rebounding shot blocker isn't a huge issue.

And going up against these 3 guys in practice can only make his rebounding better

 

[twslam07]

He could be a rotation big for us forsure, Not sure about 30 + minutes per game , but I could see a solid 25 from him (Possibly 30 + in the future).

Many of the top shotblockers in the league average in that 25 - 30 min range a game. Here are some to name a few.

Ibaka/27 min/3.7 blk
McGee/25 min/2.2 blk
Jordan/27 min/2 blk
Hibbert/29 min/2 blk
Biyombo/23 min/1.8 blk
Dalembert/22/1.7 blk

 

[JMelho]

I would trade backups like Jimmer, Outlaw, Garcia, Salmons for Udoh. Not a splash trade, but it would be reasonable for both sides.

 

[bajaden]

I really want to see the Kings draft Taylor this year and if we we did this trade we would be picking at 12 which I think would be a little too early to take him. We could then trade back once more and add another veteran to our roster.

#12
Thomas
Hayes

for

#16
Lowry

Some might think we're giving up too much based on the situation Houston is in with Lowry, but I would be willing to give this up if it came down to it. I think everyone by now knows what Lowry brings to the table. Ballhandling, playmaking, 3 point shooting, and defense. I don't see how having Thomas and Lowry on the same team would work. One would have to have their minutes slashed dramatically because of the fact that Thomas and Lowry can't play on the court together due to their size.

Thomas would be a nice backup point behind Dragic and Dragic is big enough where they can have both Thomas and Dragic out there together. Houston and Adelman both think highly of Hayes and they would get to move up 4 spots in the draft.

So if we were to pull off the #5 and Outlaw for #12 and Udoh, then trade #12, Thomas, and Hayes for #16 and Lowry, and select Jeff Taylor at #16, our lineup would look like this:

Lowry/Fredette
Evans/Thornton/Garcia
Taylor/Williams/Salmons/Honeycutt
Thompson/Udoh
Cousins/Whiteside

Not too bad of an offseason, eh?

If you move down to 12, you take Taylor and go home happy. I know where some of the mocks have him, but its wise not to pay a lot of attention to those. If a GM falls in love with him, you could move down farther, and end up not getting him. You can't get overly cute with this stuff. At 12 I don't think he's that much of a reach. Matter of fact, I have him as a lottery pick on my board.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Udoh is one of those PF, that may just work well with DMC and JT (if resigned)

This would be so much better if we could also grab Perry Jones III at 12.
We could go back to having a front court of 6'10" and above guys again, the sort of line-up that really kept us in playoff for a long time.

PG - Evans/IT/Jimmer
SG - Thornton/Salmons
SF - PJIII/Honeycutt
PF - Udoh/JT(resigned)
C - DMC/Hayes/Whiteside

 

[ParniValjak]

If only he could develop into a 12/9/3bpg player!

This is the right type of player but at this stage, we really need to solidify that frontcourt with a proven veteran (preferably a young one)...but definitely the right type of player 6'10" +, can play C and PF and is not someone that will demand shots.

 

[Bricklayer]

If only he could develop into a 12/9/3bpg player!

This is the right type of player but at this stage, we really need to solidify that frontcourt with a proven veteran (preferably a young one)...but definitely the right type of player 6'10" +, can play C and PF and is not someone that will demand shots.

unfortunately thus far he's been:

10-11: 17.8min 4.1pts (.437 .656) 3.1reb 0.7ast 0.4stl 1.5blk 0.8TO
11-12: 21.1min 5.6pts (.431 .754) 4.2reb 0.9ast 0.7stl 1.7blk 0.9TO

and that's kind of the realistic thing here. He blocks lots of shots, even helped one of my fantasy teams late last year, but as the numbers show everything but the blocked shots has just been shaky. Its a clever play in some ways to grab him. But to depend on his suddenly emerging as a strong rotation player that actually intimidates inside would just be another one of our try to patch it as cheaply as possible cross your fingers and pray thing. Not horribly young either -- already 25, which is an age when most guys don't imporve much after. Because he came to the game late, maybe he's got another spurt in him, but still.

Last summer I remember when they got Hickson I was trying to convince myself ok, that won't be so bad as long as we bring back Dalembert too. Well...we didn't. And kind of the same thing here with Udoh. He's an intriguing guy for a team with our needs, but you just know if we picked him up he would go from intriguing guy to THE guy we pick up, and we'd just close up the books and call the problem patched without even knowing if Udoh can hold down rotation minutes, let alone be a defensive game changer for us. You compare that to other names being thrown around like Okafor with his 507 career starts or Dalembert with his 582 career starts, and what you have is a real wing and a prayer in Udoh compared to bringin in guys who have proven they can do it for the last decade.

 

[Kingster]

I like Udoh. He's not purely a shot blocker. He can do other things on the floor. He hasn't shown a lot because of injuries and he's been asked to play center instead of PF, which is his true position, and also he's just young. He could be a a very nice fit next to Cousins.

 

[DesertFox]

I like Udoh. He's not purely a shot blocker. He can do other things on the floor. He hasn't shown a lot because of injuries and he's been asked to play center instead of PF, which is his true position, and also he's just young. He could be a a very nice fit next to Cousins.

I remember at GS he looked very smooth moving around on D. He was a zero on offense except for a decent mid range shot.

His adjusted +/- numbers were mentioned, I I found this article pretty interesting. It includes a video showing his PnR defense and other less obvious merits.

He may not be as easy to acquire as he does at first glance.

 

[ESP47]

Do we really need a huge rebounder next to Cousins? Last year (and the year before) were the first years in a long time where I thought we actually had solid rebounding. Now that Cousins has positioned himself as an elite rebounder, do we really need another well above average rebounder next to him? It would be great to have but then their talents would kind of cancel each other out. You aren't going to have Cousins pull down 12reb a game with whoever at PF pulling down 9. That just doesn't happen because there aren't enough rebounds to go around.

Udoh's numbers do scare me though. If he couldn't pass Biedrens on the depth chart, is he really good enough to start on our team? It sounds like it could just be a step sideways. Udoh blocks 2 shots a game, but JT scores 6 more points than him and pulls down a few more rebounds. Who is the better player? I guess it comes down to how Udoh's D is when he's not accumulating blocks. I haven't watched him enough to know.

 

[Kingster]

Do we really need a huge rebounder next to Cousins? Last year (and the year before) were the first years in a long time where I thought we actually had solid rebounding. Now that Cousins has positioned himself as an elite rebounder, do we really need another well above average rebounder next to him? It would be great to have but then their talents would kind of cancel each other out. You aren't going to have Cousins pull down 12reb a game with whoever at PF pulling down 9. That just doesn't happen because there aren't enough rebounds to go around.

Udoh's numbers do scare me though. If he couldn't pass Biedrens on the depth chart, is he really good enough to start on our team? It sounds like it could just be a step sideways. Udoh blocks 2 shots a game, but JT scores 6 more points than him and pulls down a few more rebounds. Who is the better player? I guess it comes down to how Udoh's D is when he's not accumulating blocks. I haven't watched him enough to know.

There are always a lot of guys who don't look great if you look at their stats their first few years in the league, but then come on later. The question to me isn't whether you want him or not. That's a no-brainer. The question is at what price. If you get him at a low price you go for it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Do we really need a huge rebounder next to Cousins? Last year (and the year before) were the first years in a long time where I thought we actually had solid rebounding. Now that Cousins has positioned himself as an elite rebounder, do we really need another well above average rebounder next to him? It would be great to have but then their talents would kind of cancel each other out. You aren't going to have Cousins pull down 12reb a game with whoever at PF pulling down 9. That just doesn't happen because there aren't enough rebounds to go around.

Udoh's numbers do scare me though. If he couldn't pass Biedrens on the depth chart, is he really good enough to start on our team? It sounds like it could just be a step sideways. Udoh blocks 2 shots a game, but JT scores 6 more points than him and pulls down a few more rebounds. Who is the better player? I guess it comes down to how Udoh's D is when he's not accumulating blocks. I haven't watched him enough to know.

Actually, the huge rebounding was the result of having a Cousins/Dalembert/Thompson trio up front, and the second half of the year playing it religiously ratehr than screwing around with smalball, and then of having a big rebounding advantage at PG with Reke. In other words after a one year blip in which we, the Sacramento Kings, actually were #2 in the entire league in rebounding (rebouding differential too, not just raw numbers), last year we collapsed all the way back to 25th and got outrebounded by more than 2 rebs a game. That's on management and coaching.

 

[bajaden]

Do we really need a huge rebounder next to Cousins? Last year (and the year before) were the first years in a long time where I thought we actually had solid rebounding. Now that Cousins has positioned himself as an elite rebounder, do we really need another well above average rebounder next to him? It would be great to have but then their talents would kind of cancel each other out. You aren't going to have Cousins pull down 12reb a game with whoever at PF pulling down 9. That just doesn't happen because there aren't enough rebounds to go around.

Udoh's numbers do scare me though. If he couldn't pass Biedrens on the depth chart, is he really good enough to start on our team? It sounds like it could just be a step sideways. Udoh blocks 2 shots a game, but JT scores 6 more points than him and pulls down a few more rebounds. Who is the better player? I guess it comes down to how Udoh's D is when he's not accumulating blocks. I haven't watched him enough to know.

As I posted earlier, Udoh started his first season with the Warriors with a broken wrist. That certainly didn't help his progress. As for passing Biedrens on the depth chart, I doubt thats fair. Biedrens is making 9 mil a year and was an established rotational player for the Warriors. I doubt any rookie not named Blake Griffin was going to come in and displace him. JT is a better player right now, but also remember that JT has been in the league for 4 years now, and Udoh has only played 2 years. So I think the jury is still out on Udoh. JT just had his best year in the league in year 4. I've said it many times. Big men take more time.

 

[bajaden]

Actually, the huge rebounding was the result of having a Cousins/Dalembert/Thompson trio up front, and the second half of the year playing it religiously ratehr than screwing around with smalball, and then of having a big rebounding advantage at PG with Reke. In other words after a one year blip in which we, the Sacramento Kings, actually were #2 in the entire league in rebounding (rebouding differential too, not just raw numbers), last year we collapsed all the way back to 25th and got outrebounded by more than 2 rebs a game. That's on management and coaching.

I would like to know how just our starting lineup fared league wise in rebounding. I suspect it was pretty good. It was our second unit that really sucked. It was fair when Hickson was here, but once he was gone, we got murdered on the boards if Cuz or JT wasn't on the floor.

 

[Gary]

It usually never turns out good when a guy starts to play the game in his later teens.

For that reason I say HELLLL NOOOOO to Udoh. I don't like the guy and he won't be a good pro.

 

[bajaden]

It usually never turns out good when a guy starts to play the game in his later teens.

For that reason I say HELLLL NOOOOO to Udoh. I don't like the guy and he won't be a good pro.

Thanks for the intelligent insights into his game. Nice breakdown of his abilities.. Well done there! By the way, Hakeem Olajuwon never touched a basketball until he was 15 year old. Think how good he might have been if he had started sooner......

 

[Kingster]

I would like to know how just our starting lineup fared league wise in rebounding. I suspect it was pretty good. It was our second unit that really sucked. It was fair when Hickson was here, but once he was gone, we got murdered on the boards if Cuz or JT wasn't on the floor.

I suspect you're right. By and large, it seemed like our starting lineup hung in there most of the time and the subs got destroyed. Would be interesting to see stats on that.