Tyrese Watch

[sactowndog]

if Hali keeps this up and continues to advance either this season or in the upcoming seasons in the Postseason, we will soon be hearing that this trade wasn't as equal as we made it out to be

I think that is already happening. I fear we may soon rate that trade as bad as the Luka non draft.

 

[SLAB]

if Hali keeps this up and continues to advance either this season or in the upcoming seasons in the Postseason, we will soon be hearing that this trade wasn't as equal as we made it out to be

That ship is long sailed.

 

[coolhandluke]

If Tyrese was still with the Kings, we would still be chasing the play-ins in the West. Pacers have better team construction.

 

[Warhawk]

If Tyrese was still with the Kings, we would still be chasing the play-ins in the West. Pacers have better team construction.

Agreed. You can't just look at one player. When we got Sabonis, that instantly catapulted us forward. Since then we've stagnated.

With Hali, it took a while for that group to come together and gel.

Both are very good players. No need to disparage one or the other. Sabonis was what our team needed at the time. We just did a poor job of continuing to improve the team around him and Fox. Also, nobody could know that Kevin would fall off a cliff in performance, etc. This isn't cut and dry hinging on one trade.

 

[hrdboild]

if Hali keeps this up and continues to advance either this season or in the upcoming seasons in the Postseason, we will soon be hearing that this trade wasn't as equal as we made it out to be

We're now onto the next coach after the next coach since the Hali trade. It's just pointless to keep making the comparison. I think that deal made sense at the time since we've seen that Sacramento GMs have a very small window to show progress and keep their jobs. McNair did what nobody before him could do in the post-Adelman/Petrie era and he did that because of the Hali/Sabonis swap. It ultimately didn't work out but the Beam Team year was good for Sacramento and Hali on the Pacers stunning the Knicks at MSG and winking at history with the Reggie Miller choke celebration is good for the NBA.

Knowing what I know now, I wish we still had Hali but I don't know that the Kings as an organization are capable of putting a consistent winner together regardless of whether it's Fox or Haliburton running point. Maybe its best to be happy for those guys still getting to live out their NBA dream in other markets and hope that Keon and Keegan can grow into something special playing in ours.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

If Tyrese was still with the Kings, we would still be chasing the play-ins in the West. Pacers have better team construction.

Agreed. You can't just look at one player. When we got Sabonis, that instantly catapulted us forward. Since then we've stagnated.

With Hali, it took a while for that group to come together and gel.

Both are very good players. No need to disparage one or the other. Sabonis was what our team needed at the time. We just did a poor job of continuing to improve the team around him and Fox. Also, nobody could know that Kevin would fall off a cliff in performance, etc. This isn't cut and dry hinging on one trade.

Totally agree with both of you.

That said, here's one KINGS fan that can now admit he was wrong (with the advantage of hindsight) with regard to believing that the KINGS made the right move moving Hali over Fox.

When Fox took off in 2023, I was banging that drum hard. Always was a Swipa fan and staunch defender dating back to the lead up when the KINGS drafted him.

Now, IIRC, the KINGS had more interest in Hali than Fox at the time, which may have forced their hand to choose Fox over Hali, but that still doesn't change the fact that they made the wrong call. Again.

Hali is clearly the type of player we (and other teams) have been searching for in a franchise talent/leader. We had him and let him go. Domantas is a very nice player, but he isn't the franchise defining leader and clutch performer that Hali has developed into.

KINGS lost that trade and eventually lost Fox too. C'est la vie.

But I also agree that the KINGS would not be enjoying the same success Indiana is having with Hali had they held on to him.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I don’t watch Tyrese and the Pacers with the lens of “what if he was still on the Kings.” There really is no point. As others have pointed out, had we kept Tyrese, we likely don’t make the right moves to build a deep run playoff team with him anyway.

To be honest, I really haven’t watched much of Tyrese outside of the playoffs last year and this year. He’s entertaining to watch, awkward shot that seems to go in at a higher percentage than it should, great at driving and finishing and a willing and oft times spectacular passer. But the thing I like the most about him is he doesn’t shrink in the big moment but seeks it out. His game winner against Cleveland and his near game winner (toe on line Demar style) in game 1 vs the Knicks were just plain ballsy. The Reggie Miller choke celly was the icing on the cake.

 

[sactowndog]

Agreed. You can't just look at one player. When we got Sabonis, that instantly catapulted us forward. Since then we've stagnated.

With Hali, it took a while for that group to come together and gel.

Both are very good players. No need to disparage one or the other. Sabonis was what our team needed at the time. We just did a poor job of continuing to improve the team around him and Fox. Also, nobody could know that Kevin would fall off a cliff in performance, etc. This isn't cut and dry hinging on one trade.

If Monte made one decision this team would be way different. Boston offered Nesmith and a first for Barnes prior to the 2021 draft.

Had we taken it we would have lost one more game and been in front of Chicago in the draft.

Our roster would have been
Guards: Fox, Halibuton, Hield, Davis
Forwards: Aaron Nesmith, Franz Wagner, Bagley, belli
Center: Holmes , Whitehead.

With that pick we could have drafted a center. Bostons pick went to Houston who drafted Sengun.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

The takes about had we kept Hali we wouldn’t have made the right moves to build the team are pretty sad rationalizations. Sometimes all you need is to make 1 right move that will snowball in your favor and change the trajectory of the franchise.

Our current state is the outcome of doubling/tripling down on 1 major assumption that the organization and many fans had: that Fox is a superstar that could lead you to deep playoff runs and contend. Some fans contended for years (and got ridiculed along the way) that he lacked certain skills, showed inconsistent effort, and wasn’t the leader that you would otherwise see in a superstar. That we were setting ourselves many years back with the choices we made thinking he was that star.

So the tough learning here is the front office and owners have to get their assumptions right. And when they’re wrong, they need to course correct ASAP instead of digging bigger holes. We’ve made so many wrong moves and been so short-sighted, we’re unfortunately stuck and in that mode of hoping some miracles happens: Keegan turns into Kawhi, Carter turns into Jrue, LaVine turns into Vince Carter and not just be a Kevin Martin type. In our case, we had a miracle fall on our lap when we drafted Hali. We just kept making the wrong moves, and hopefully there’s a lot of self critique going on with Vivek and now Perry

 

[sactowndog]

The takes about had we kept Hali we wouldn’t have made the right moves to build the team are pretty sad rationalizations. Sometimes all you need is to make 1 right move that will snowball in your favor and change the trajectory of the franchise.

Our current state is the outcome of doubling/tripling down on 1 major assumption that the organization and many fans had: that Fox is a superstar that could lead you to deep playoff runs and contend. Some fans contended for years (and got ridiculed along the way) that he lacked certain skills, showed inconsistent effort, and wasn’t the leader that you would otherwise see in a superstar. That we were setting ourselves many years back with the choices we made thinking he was that star.

So the tough learning here is the front office and owners have to get their assumptions right. And when they’re wrong, they need to course correct ASAP instead of digging bigger holes. We’ve made so many wrong moves and been so short-sighted, we’re unfortunately stuck and in that mode of hoping some miracles happens: Keegan turns into Kawhi, Carter turns into Jrue, LaVine turns into Vince Carter and not just be a Kevin Martin type. In our case, we had a miracle fall on our lap when we drafted Hali. We just kept making the wrong moves, and hopefully there’s a lot of self critique going on with Vivek and now Perry

Hopefully with Vivek especially. He played a major role in blocking the Barnes trade, he played a role In the LaVine trade. He is possibly the worst owner in sports.

 

[Warhawk]

The takes about had we kept Hali we wouldn’t have made the right moves to build the team are pretty sad rationalizations. Sometimes all you need is to make 1 right move that will snowball in your favor and change the trajectory of the franchise.

Our current state is the outcome of doubling/tripling down on 1 major assumption that the organization and many fans had: that Fox is a superstar that could lead you to deep playoff runs and contend. Some fans contended for years (and got ridiculed along the way) that he lacked certain skills, showed inconsistent effort, and wasn’t the leader that you would otherwise see in a superstar. That we were setting ourselves many years back with the choices we made thinking he was that star.

So the tough learning here is the front office and owners have to get their assumptions right. And when they’re wrong, they need to course correct ASAP instead of digging bigger holes. We’ve made so many wrong moves and been so short-sighted, we’re unfortunately stuck and in that mode of hoping some miracles happens: Keegan turns into Kawhi, Carter turns into Jrue, LaVine turns into Vince Carter and not just be a Kevin Martin type. In our case, we had a miracle fall on our lap when we drafted Hali. We just kept making the wrong moves, and hopefully there’s a lot of self critique going on with Vivek and now Perry

So, because we traded for an all-star that catapulted us into the playoffs and then didn't keep building the team, we should assume that by keeping a non-all-star (at the time) the team would have done a better job building a team for sustained playoff success, from scratch?

That doesn't follow.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

So, because we traded for an all-star that catapulted us into the playoffs and then didn't keep building the team, we should assume that by keeping a non-all-star (at the time) the team would have done a better job building a team for sustained playoff success, from scratch?

That doesn't follow.

I understand how it’s hard to comprehend. Pacers had a major assumption around Haliburton and are reaping the benefits. Some Kings fans saw the leadership and the Nash-like potential he had and obviously so did the Pacers front office. The Pacers also saw what Sabonis did for them and realized he could only take them so far. Their record the season before and the season he got traded are also very telling.

Teams that consistently lose lack vision and do what we do.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The takes about had we kept Hali we wouldn’t have made the right moves to build the team are pretty sad rationalizations. Sometimes all you need is to make 1 right move that will snowball in your favor and change the trajectory of the franchise.

Our current state is the outcome of doubling/tripling down on 1 major assumption that the organization and many fans had: that Fox is a superstar that could lead you to deep playoff runs and contend. Some fans contended for years (and got ridiculed along the way) that he lacked certain skills, showed inconsistent effort, and wasn’t the leader that you would otherwise see in a superstar. That we were setting ourselves many years back with the choices we made thinking he was that star.

So the tough learning here is the front office and owners have to get their assumptions right. And when they’re wrong, they need to course correct ASAP instead of digging bigger holes. We’ve made so many wrong moves and been so short-sighted, we’re unfortunately stuck and in that mode of hoping some miracles happens: Keegan turns into Kawhi, Carter turns into Jrue, LaVine turns into Vince Carter and not just be a Kevin Martin type. In our case, we had a miracle fall on our lap when we drafted Hali. We just kept making the wrong moves, and hopefully there’s a lot of self critique going on with Vivek and now Perry

True lead players don't pout when a really good prospect starts playing well for the team. That's exactly the way that Fox acted around Haliburton. Some of us knew right then and there who the real lead player was.