iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Oi vey
Tyrese Watch
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
NewArena
All-Star
The fact that it depends on the day - probably not so great
And then wasn't "made available" for media questions, at least according to the sports radio guy I was listening to yesterday. Apparently not the first time, either?
coolhandluke
Starter
There are levels to this thing.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
I’ll never understand how he has playoff games with under 10 attempts absolutely mind boggling
Tizzy Flip
Starter
The biggest difference between Fox and Hali? People actually want to play with Hali. Siakam took a quick min and considered playing with Fox and Sabonis and said hell no, even though we were 29-21. He decided to join a .500 team in the Pacers at the time. Keegan would be a star alongside Hali
coolhandluke
Starter
coolhandluke
Starter
Hali makes everyone around him better. He got Holmes that big contract. Sabonis and Hali would have been a great pairing.
Monte flubbed the Siakam acquisition though. It turned out to be one of the many "almost done" deals that fell through.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
It’s so funny seeing all of these takes on the Pacers’ talent. People are saying how the Pacers have surrounded him with talent. Really??? Besides Siakam and Toppin, they are pretty much the same team that was 35-47 two years ago, and a lot worse the year before that. They gave the keys to Hali to run the team, they built their offensive system around him, and recognized early he makes everyone better. Take a look at the 3pt shooting for Turner, Siakam, Nesmith, Toppin before they played with Hali and after. It’s no coincidence.
Padrino
All-Star
Tyrese Haliburton is a really good player who definitely makes his teammates better... on a squad in the Eastern Conference. It's very difficult to evaluate any team out east because of how much less talented and competitive that conference really is. It's why many weren't believers in the Cavaliers in the first place, and it's why many consider the Pacers a lesser playoff contender. Personally, I'm not sure the Pacers are better than the eighth seed if you were to stick them in the Western Conference. Their net rating suggests that's about how talented they are (2.2 NETRTG; 13th in the NBA). And again, that was achieved while playing the majority of their games in a less competitive conference.
Out west, there were only two teams that finished below .400 in the entire conference! Nearly every night is a dog fight and making the playoffs is no small feat. In the East, 44 wins earns you the 6th seed and keeps you out of the play-in. That would only get you the 9th seed in the West and a lack of home court advantage in the play-in. I'm not among those who think Tyrese is necessarily "overrated", but I don't think the hype is particularly justified, either. Dude's in the bottom third of the league in defensive estimated plus-minus (-0.7), and you're not going to find much superstar talent south of the equator when it comes to DEPM. Hell, even Domas has a positive DEPM (+0.6).
I know Kings fans are hurting and pining after Haliburton again, but I'm not sure he'd have the Kings competing at the same level that the Pacers are able to compete in the East. From bitter experience, Kings fans are quite aware how tough it is to win in the West when your team is led by awful defenders, and Tyrese is more awful than most on that end. Once Hali reaches the Finals and puts up a real fight against a Western Conference contender, I may reevaluate my stance. But for now, I maintain that he and Domas are pretty equivalent talents who impact winning at about the same level (each at approx. 10 Win Shares this season), yet they're both still a couple of tiers below the league's upper echelon.
Even before we talk about fixing the draft we should have conversations about realignment, balanced schedules (which would meet the player requests for less games) and seeding the best 16 teams period. I think the play-in in many ways was a lazy way to address that and also give a few mid-teams an extra home game. But the problem still remains when 10 seed of the West would lock in a playoff spot in the East.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics.
Cavs 23-7 vs Western conference. Extend that out to 82 games, they still win over 60.
Pacers 21-10 vs Western conference
You seen any Pacers playoffs games yet? Hali’s defense is a ton better. Still a lot to be desired of, but when he puts some energy in staying in front of his guy he makes a difference on that end. 2 games so far in the playoffs where he has 3 blocks
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Some are having a hard time accepting his impact and success. All 8 seeds from the east are competitive against western conference teams.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
No doubt Eastern conference has more bottom dwellers that were all tanking for the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes. Between Hornets, Wizards, Nets, Sixers, Raptors they were all in the race. But I can argue top 5 in east was equal to top 5 in west
Oh goodness the gap from 8-15 in the two conferences is preposterous. Even if the playoff teams are mostly competitive you have teams playing below .500 in the playoffs in one conference and teams missing the postseason entirely at .500 occasionally in the West right now. There's no way to spin it.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
and Miami, Orlando, and Detroit as 8, 7, 6 seeds would all be competitive against Memphis, Golden State, and Minnesota
SLAB
Hall of Famer
people were so happy to dance on his bad start. I love where we’re at with this. The only thing this dude did “wrong” was being hurt by being shipped off.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The Pacers are interesting. Tyrese is obviously the driving force but Nembhard, Turner and Nesmith have been just as impressive. Everytime the Cavs looked like they were going on a run either Nemby or Nesmith would splash a three or Turner would grab and offensive rebound. Funnily enough I barely notice Siakam out there and there two high lottery choices have barely made an impact. Kings can learn a lot from their success. Guys like Devin, Keon, Keegan can be our versions of some of those guys.
I think people were frustrated with how much folks were clapping back at our franchise.
I'm not saying we'd have any chips, but if we got to play in the East over the last 20 years we'd probably have made the playoffs at least 40% of the time instead of setting futility records and the 23 team we'd probably have gone to the ECF.
That said even the TNT folks said when talking about how Randle-KAT was good for both teams last night, they compared it to the Domas/Hali trade in the same favorable light. So maybe folks have just moved on.
Unfortunately we're stuck in the West which against all odds only keeps getting better.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
What’s important about their team construction is everyone buys in and commits to making the extra pass. One of the most unselfish teams I’ve ever seen. They hardly have games where any single player shoots more than 20 fgs. It’s definitely a model to go with if you don’t have a bunch of iso players and everyone on the floor can dribble and shoot
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