Tyrese Watch
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Unfortunately, it's people like that making it tough to enjoy Hali because it's always attached with a "LOL LOOK HOW DUMB THE KINGS ARE HAHAHAH".
Domas literally put up an identical line last night. Fox has been a top 10 player since the trade. Hali is incredible and absolutely smashed his expectations since he got his own team. All 3 dudes are significantly better off than they were before.
It's just weird this is the deal the media wants to focus all their attention on. There's such a willingness and need to bash Sacramento, but the Kings have been too good to really do so.
Now you've got me wondering what the Venn diagram of these people and the ones who are still salty about Bagley over Doncic? We already know that the circles intersect at at least one point...
More likely two intersections on overlapping ciclres, with area between.
I'm here for this level of pedantry.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
maybe make it a 3 way Venn with folks who never forgave the Kings for trading Demarcus Cousins for Buddy Hield
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
I mean, I don't think I will ever NOT be salty about Bagley over Doncic, BUT...
Our recent, and ongoing, success makes me feel far less salty than I'd be if we were still at the bottom of the barrel.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
This would be one rather interesting Venn, that's for sure.
captain bill
All-Star
This isn't a knock on Fox or saying he's not a superstar. For me it's that Tyrese's ceiling is something close to 30/10 on 90 / 60 / 45 splits, which is not just MVP but makes him the heir to Steph Curry's throne and in the conversation for one of the greatest players of his generation. Fox's year-over-year improvement is pretty incredible and he can enter the MVP conversation and lead us to championships. But for overall ceiling I think Haliburton's is higher.
If we win a single championship it won't matter much.
captain bill
All-Star
Exactly correct. Fox's value was also at an all-time low. The path to building around Haliburton required extending the drought multiple seasons and I think the consensus among even the pro-tank crowd was that the franchise and fanbase couldn't really survive it. Personally I don't think the team would move but it's hard not to disagree with the organization pushing for the shorter timeline, even if it was their own fault that we had been miserable for so long.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I do believe he will be considered the best lead guard of this generation
If you say so. Haliburton's game doesn't give me Curry, at all. Also, did I miss the season where Curry averaged 30/10? Because I'm pretty sure that Curry only averaged 7 or more assists for a whole season twice in his career, and he didn't average as many as 25 points, either time. But I'll tell you who has averaged 30/10, or close to it, and it's the guy who's game Haliburton gives me much more of than Curry's: Haliburton's game gives me lots and lots of James Harden, all the way down to the "This guy is going to find a way to choke in the playoffs, I can feel it in my bones" feeling.
Do I see Fox ever putting up those kind of numbers? No. But I'll tell you what plateau I can see him reaching: I see echoes of Prime Dwyane Wade in De'Aaron Fox's potential. And, frankly, I'd take Prime!Wade over Prime!Harden a hundred times over a hundred. I might even take him over Prime!Curry, but a) that admittedly has more to do with my personal tastes and basketball aesthetic, and b) is neither here nor there, because I see no parts of Stephen Curry in Tyrese Haliburton. If anything, I see more Trae Young in Haliburton, and I don't even say that as disrespect to either dude, but most non-Hawks fans don't get hearts in their eyes when they think of Trae Young, so you may not take kindly to the comparison.
captain bill
All-Star
I meant in terms of best shooter in the world, which is why I put the shooting splits.
This year is the first time Harden has averaged 40% from 3, and there's no guarantee it stays there. He hit 49% from the field his last year in OKC, he's never broken 47% otherwise. I don't think he's a good comparison for Haliburton.
I don't know what "90/60/45" means; I've never seen shooting splits arranged in that order. I presume that you mean 60/45/90? As in 60 percent from the field, 45 percent from three, 90 percent from the line? And, if so, sixty percent from the field and forty-five percent from three? Sixty percent? Because if that's what you think Haliburton's ceiling is, of course I don't believe that. Curry's never even done that. You expect me to believe that Haliburton is going to be better than the best shooter of all time? My kneejerk reaction is to say, "Ain't no f***in' way!", but instead I'll be slightly more diplomatic and say, "I'll believe it when I see it."
And, shooting aside, I still think that Haliburton is closer to Harden than he is to Curry. I'll stand on that.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I don’t really see the Harden or Steph comparison personally. He is a 3 and D(ime) guy. Who in league history is one of the best shooters while also being top 2 in passing? He isn’t a defender and would for the most part not be described as a scorer.
I don't know about top 2 in passing, but Harden was averaging over 20 points a game and double digit assists from 2020-21 to last year on every team he played on. Which pretty much mirrors exactly what Hali is doing the past 2 years.
Harden:
Haliburton:
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh Harden is a very good passer but guys like Hali and Joker pass guys open. Personally I think they are the two best in that area and then a decent drop off. I guess I see Harden as a scorer first, and then shooting and facilitating tied for second when ranking his skills.
So Nash, then?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
that was the guy in my head. He didn’t have the ppg of Hali but if he was playing in this era he would likely have doubled his 3pt attempts and been pretty similar.
captain bill
All-Star
Nash topped out at 18.8 ppg. Best shooter yes, but never a volume scorer
Tizzy Flip
Starter
Harden!?! Hali is the anti-Harden and anti-Young. He averages over 26pts because of his efficiency, not volume. Check his shooting splits, they compare similar to Nash. Really, Harden and Young? Get out of here with that nonsense
Tizzy Flip
Starter
Hali’s efficiency and % are very similar to Nash. Close to 50% from field, 40%+ from 3, 90%+ from FT. There’s only an elite few that claim to be on the 50/40/90 club. And you’re right, if Nash played in an era that had as many possessions as NBA averages today, he would have averaged north of 20ppg
coolhandluke
Starter
While we're talking about Nash, let's not forget that both Dirk and Nash elevated their games to MVP levels after they went their own separate ways.
He's Steve Nash turbo-charged for the modern era
Boo, beat me to it
ockingsfan
Starter
According to ESPN, Hali just had his FIRST ever triple double in that Boston game. Crazy to think that Domas has been at the top of the league in triple doubles since he's been a King, yet gets no recognition and Hali is being hailed as the heir to LeBron as the face of the NBA after having just ONE triple double. Domas has been a triple double machine for the Kings.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...on-posts-1st-triple-double-pacers-top-celtics
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...on-posts-1st-triple-double-pacers-top-celtics
ockingsfan
Starter
Bingo. Steve Nash is a perfect comparison to Hali. If Nash played today, they would have very similar stat lines.
Both are phenomenal passers and offensive players and below average on defense.
coolhandluke
Starter
Only online do I ever encounter people who bring up efficiency numbers when having a discussion about player comps. I thought it was obvious that I was basing my comparisons on a) counting stats and b) expected success levels, but whatever. And if you think that Nash is a closer comparison, fine, I won't disagree with that. I still think that Haliburton is closer to Nash or Harden than he is to Curry. And yes, Nash was great: he was a two-time MVP, and a Hall of Famer. I've already said that I think that Fox's ceiling is Dwyane Wade, who never won a regular season MVP. And, not only that, but you could make the argument that Wade never led a team to the Finals as the main guy. If you ask me would I take the best of Steve Nash over the best of Dwyane Wade, my answer's still no.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
You compared him to Harden and Trae, which no one with eyes would ever make. It would be good to admit for a change that was a bad comparison instead of trying to rationalize your way out of it which is making it worse. I’m not arguing Wade vs Nash, and I’m not arguing Fox vs Hali. But to compare Hali to Harden and Trae really questions your credibility
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