Tyrese Haliburton

E

ESP47

All-Star
#391
#391
His shot is money. Assist to turnover ratio is already among the leaders. Deflections and steals. Plays the team game. There isn't much he needs to improve on.

The one thing I'd say he needs to improve on to take a big leap would be getting to the FT line. I'd like to see less Justin Jackson floaters out there and more initiating contact. He is last on the team in FTA per36 by a wide margin.

Free throw attempts have been the thing holding Hield back from being a perennial 20+ppg scorer. Hopefully Tyrese takes a page out of Fox's book and works on that over the summer.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#392
#392
^^On that note, at least Ty has shown the ability to drive. He just needs to recklessly throw himself into opponents like James Harden instead of going for the soft JJ floaters.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#393
#393
ESP47 said:
His shot is money. Assist to turnover ratio is already among the leaders. Deflections and steals. Plays the team game. There isn't much he needs to improve on.

The one thing I'd say he needs to improve on to take a big leap would be getting to the FT line. I'd like to see less Justin Jackson floaters out there and more initiating contact. He is last on the team in FTA per36 by a wide margin.

Free throw attempts have been the thing holding Hield back from being a perennial 20+ppg scorer. Hopefully Tyrese takes a page out of Fox's book and works on that over the summer.
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I sometimes wonder if great instincts can hurt a player in regard to free throw attempts. It's natural to avoid contact as you are trying to slither your way to the basket or free yourself to get a shot. These days, 50 percent of offense in the NBA is contact hunting, almost to the point of scoring not even being the top priority. I don't like it at all and it makes for ugly boring basketball, but it's a chess not checkers kind of move. As smart and adaptive as Ty is, I am sure he will find a way to earn more trips to the stripe.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#395
#395
Sam Vecenie ranked Haliburton 24th in his top 50 young talent rankings for The Athletic. I don't necessarily disagree with where he's ranked though I do disagree with some of the players that he's being ranked with (the tier of players Vecenie put him in features Pat Williams, Lauri Markkanen, and Duncan Robinson).

Vecenie dings him for his on-ball shot creation skills and abilities as a finisher, which I can't necessarily disagree with but I am a bit more optimistic about Tyrese shoring up over the next couple of years of his career than he was.

I sorta cut around the relevant parts of his piece but you really should go read it because the Athletic does great work and Vecenie in particular puts a lot of work into the draft/young player part of the NBA.

...I think we need to see a bit more in regard to his on-ball creation skill. While he was a terrific point guard in the Big 12, he had a few problematic tendencies. He had a high handle and didn’t really have the burst to get by defenders all the time. And on top of it, he had a problematic tendency to jump pass, putting himself in the air unnecessarily before making decisions. For a guy who is so smart and capable in regard to making those choices (again, he’s not a turnover-prone guy), this might not seem like a huge deal. But I worry what it will look like against NBA speed and length if he’s purely on the ball, where those windows close down very quickly.

Finally, while Haliburton has been a terrific shooter this season, that’s largely been off the catch. Most of his shots off the dribble have come with time to really set into the shot. And as a finisher, he’s been pretty subpar and doesn’t exactly have the tools that make you expect a crazy amount of improvement there. I don’t really see him as a true shot creator going forward in the same way that a De’Aaron Fox or even a Buddy Hield can be at times. That’s fine, as the skills he brings to the table already make him more valuable than Hield... But it also does just mute Haliburton’s upside a touch below star level until he forces defenses to respect him as a shot creator and not just a shooter/passer.
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Bagley, BTW, came in at 45. Fox's ranking has still yet to have been revealed.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#397
#397
Remember before the season and people were saying ty would be better than buddy by halfway through the season and should be starting over him by then? I’ll be honest and hoped it would be true but didn’t think it would. Maybe by end of the year or next year but...
23CFA382-D696-46F4-9FD7-98BEB11BB941.jpeg
 
B

BillyStrings

G-League
#398
#398
steelevt said:
Remember before the season and people were saying ty would be better than buddy by halfway through the season and should be starting over him by then? I’ll be honest and hoped it would be true but didn’t think it would. Maybe by end of the year or next year but...
View attachment 10451
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That chart looks to be sorted by Pts. That chart also shows me Tyrese is better than Buddy by a lot.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#400
#400
BillyStrings said:
That chart looks to be sorted by Pts. That chart also shows me Tyrese is better than Buddy by a lot.
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Yup. Looking at the stats, in less minute, Ty averages 3 less points a game but better fg%, 3pt %, assists, steals and blocks. Buddy does avg more rebounds but those stats don’t even factor in the overall defense including mark Jones’ favorite stat, deflections.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#401
#401
steelevt said:
Remember before the season and people were saying ty would be better than buddy by halfway through the season and should be starting over him by then? I’ll be honest and hoped it would be true but didn’t think it would. Maybe by end of the year or next year but...
View attachment 10451
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That's a combination of Tyrese being really really good for a rookie and Hield being really really bad for a veteran.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#405
#405
On a night when Harden and Irving both recognized his emerging greatness, it is disrespectful to Halliburton to keep mentioning forgettable has been players in discussions about him.
Halliburton is the most complete rookie playing basketball I have seen in recent memory.
He is Matisse Thybull with a potent offense. He understands the game in every facet. He makes good decisions and does everything well.
His length gives other guards problems. Once he grows up a little more and gets past 175 pounds he is going to be the complete player.
He actually has a great chance to become an all-star. He is the best thing about the Kings. He is the anti-Hield.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#409
#409
Groovygreg said:
Everything about this kid screams “winner”...and he makes Buddy look like a basketball dunce.
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Difference between a player with a consistent All Star ceiling and a player with a 6th man ceiling.

Never understood the Buddy defenders. Kevin Martin, Doug, and Mitch were clearly better than him. Bobby too. He was and is in the same category as Bonzi, AbdulWahad, Jimmy Jackson, & Jon Berry. It’s not like fans didn’t have past players to compare him to.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#411
#411
ESP47 has identified one of Halliburton's only weaknesses. He weighs 175 pounds in a league full of big strong men. He has learned to avoid contact and play away from it. That is why you do not see him at the foul line. Over time that may change. It may never be his strength. Fox does an amazing job at getting foul shots, but still has nights when he can't make them.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#412
#412
ppine said:
ESP47 has identified one of Halliburton's only weaknesses. He weighs 175 pounds in a league full of big strong men. He has learned to avoid contact and play away from it. That is why you do not see him at the foul line. Over time that may change. It may never be his strength. Fox does an amazing job at getting foul shots, but still has nights when he can't make them.
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Hali is a twig for sure. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he can put on another 30lbs and get those FT attempts up... it might just take him a few years and a lot of time in the weight room!
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#414
#414
SLAB said:
He’s smart enough to eventually just start throwing himself into defenders on those JJ floaters and take James Harden amount of FTs.
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Refs won't let twigs do that usually. Also, this is someone that has already had numerous dings in college and now the pros when trying to finish with authority. He has to put on size and 20-25 pounds is probably a minimum for a SG. if he was a full time PG, eh, maybe but we saw Fox who is arguably a much better physical prototype even when he was rail thin struggle and now that he has size his finishing through defenders is near elite. Also Haliburtons pnr game suffers when teams double or aggressively play him. That extra size will keep defenders from bumping him off his center of gravity in pnr. We saw an example in a game the other night. As soon as the defenders came out to him he backed off and circled out. Fox was a different story, he stayed in the pocket and waited for the opening.
 
W

Woot!

Starter
#415
#415
steelevt said:
Yup. Looking at the stats, in less minute, Ty averages 3 less points a game but better fg%, 3pt %, assists, steals and blocks. Buddy does avg more rebounds but those stats don’t even factor in the overall defense including mark Jones’ favorite stat, deflections.
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I get that Buddy is the obvious guy for Ty to replace in the starting lineup, but honestly the comparison in re who's the better player, who gives the team the better chance to win, isn't worth making any more. Buddy and Cojo are neck-and-neck as the worst players in the Kings' regular rotation, especially given that Buddy's awfulness is spread over 14 more mpg than Cojo's.

The apt comparison at this point is Buddy v. DQJ, not Buddy v. Ty.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#416
#416
Woot! said:
I get that Buddy is the obvious guy for Ty to replace in the starting lineup, but honestly the comparison in re who's the better player, who gives the team the better chance to win, isn't worth making any more. Buddy and Cojo are neck-and-neck as the worst players in the Kings' regular rotation, especially given that Buddy's awfulness is spread over 14 more mpg than Cojo's.

The apt comparison at this point is Buddy v. DQJ, not Buddy v. Ty.
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The lineups stats disagree. Again.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612758&CF=GP*GE*5:MIN*GE*10&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

Obviously, Walton is starting to run strange and odd combos at seemingly random times and the team is historically bad defensively regardless but those are the lineups with a minimum of 5 games played and 10 minutes. Only 7 have a positive net rating. Buddy is featured in 6 of them, Ty 5, and Cojo is in 3. The numbers are a little skewed obviously because Cojo has had a magic key to Waltons rotation all year. When things are going good or bad he can do no wrong. To an extent Buddy has been given more rope as well probably due to his defensive effort which has been solid the whole season but his offensive game is basically 3 point looks or nothing which is going to bring your percentages down. In the end the numbers also back up the fact that the death ball lineup of Fox, Haliburton, Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes isn't getting enough burn.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#417
#417
I always thought leap day babies celebrated their birthday on Match 1st but apparently Tyrese is celebrating his today so now he’s 21 and officially too old for the Kings.
 
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