Nope. The passing and sharing the ball we've seen the last 2 games has been far above and beyond anything we've seen all year. Assists and team-oriented basketball aren't necessarily the same thing
[Game] T'wolves @ Kings 3/18/2012
- Thread starter Glenn
- Start date
Nope. The passing and sharing the ball we've seen the last 2 games has been far above and beyond anything we've seen all year. Assists and team-oriented basketball aren't necessarily the same thing
I also agree that the team does play better without Tyreke. Better ball movement, more off the ball movement, team is less selfish ect. Im not hating. Just my observations. Tyreke has huge potential but he would be much more effective on a team where is he is the main guy and also the guy getting the most shots. Unless he makes a huge jump in showing that he can fit into the team ball that the kings are running right now, i think we should trade him.
Fear the Putin
Starter
Don't know why you're inferring that IT doesn't pass.
As for MT, if he isn't feeling it (in this case, he becomes a black hole), he's been passing because the ball is moving around instead of receiving a pass after Reke holding it for 10 seconds.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
And guys deciding to start playing team oriented ball isn't the same as Reke being out injured, which is obvious and you haven't attempted to respond to.
In a sense, you're correct. The offense has been fantastic the last 2 games because our guys have defined offensive roles and we don't have too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. With Cousins/Reke/Thornton on the floor and a scoring-oriented PG in IT, we have too many guys looking to get their shots. It's stops the ball movement and our role players (who've played brilliantly the last 2 games) become spectators to those 3 guys getting their looks.
Now, before we overreact and deal Reke or Thornton, Smart needs to figure a way to integrate Reke into the offense we've ran the last 2 games.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's pretty obvious both are passing much more this weekend than this time last week. So either they had a change of heart, which I'd love and hope continues, or when Reke is out there they're afraid of not getting enough shots, leading to less ball movement.
Read my previous post
We've had less ball movement because we have 3 guys looking to put up 15+ shots a game and a new rookie PG who's looking to get 10-12 shots a game. That doesn't leave a lot of love for Salmons/Hayes/JT etc to get involved in the offense.
Fear the Putin
Starter
Team ball is contagious. If you have a guy wait, wait, wait and then clank a jumpshot a couple of times, the offense becomes stagnant.
If the players are constantly passing and finding open guys while having success at it, you get a machine that is suddenly well-oiled that leads to easy buckets.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Except for Reke has been damn good since Smart took over at moving the ball in transition and in the halfcourt with time on the shotclock. He almost doesn't look to score to a fault. Most times when he goes 1v1 are when he gets it with 5secs on the shotclock. What's he supposed to do then? You also have to take a few dribbles to set up your defender when penetrating, and he is by far our best penetrator which leads to numerous open looks for others, which for some reason they decided to start hitting this weekend.
I think this is my last post in this thread. Adios.
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Glenn
Hall of Famer
It isn't your job to set the standards.
I respect his opinion though. It's one I agree with.
Fear the Putin
Starter
You're right, he has looked good because he is still a talented mofo who can get his own on any given night.
But, I gotta disagree with you saying that most of time he goes 1 v 1 is when there is 5 sec on the clock.
On the contrary, most of the time he is trying to create something 1 v 1, whether for himself, or for others. It's just forced.
Shots tend to go down more often when there is more than one pass per possession.
Ball movement guys, ball movement!!
That is a big leap (I know it was meant as sarcasm) from wanting to discuss the possibility that Reke needs to be utilized in a different role for the team to get better with him.
I know you mean it in jest.
On a serious note, shouldn't we be focused on developing Cousins for long term success? I believe in inside-out basketball for real success, and my main gripe continues to be a focus on gunning from the guards even though it sounds like I'm tilting at windmills after these wins. It disguises the bigger issues at play, and I think the development of Cousins, and to a lesser extent, Evans, is hampered by this style.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
It's just as true as the comments on Reke. JT has blossomed forth as Cousins has slid backward. What does that mean? Probably very little. I made an obsevation but the observaton doesn not mean the two factors are related. It's two games!!
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Yes, indeedy.
xyrin
Bench
Except Tyreke is a player who has been criticized by the entire league and media for his ability to stop the flow of an offense and kill ball movement. For years people were saying he wasn't a PG and we were trying to prove them wrong. Well guess what, he isn't a PG.
Though I criticize him, it is because I have high expectations for him (as we all should). He was just our "franchise player" a year ago, now we are saying we're holding too high of a bar for him? We just need to find the correct role for him inside of our offense, and he'll need to develop within that role. Forcing him at the 1 position or the 3 (especially the 3... he just shouldn't play there) just isn't going to work. He needs to work on his off-the-ball skills and develop a midrange jumper to become a lethal SG for us, in my opinion.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
The entire league!!! Wow! He didn't ask to be a franchise player. He cannot help anyone's overblown expectations. He is what he is and is pretty darn good. He will not be in the Hall of Fame. Neither will a lot of people yet I think people think they know what he needs to do to get there. What if he is at his peak? I agree with what he needs to work on but he can't work on it playing the 3 position. Is this his fault? The last few games Smart was forced to start a SF. Maybe that's what he should be doing all the time.
I can explain our success to playing a standard line up just as easy as people can speculate it has to do with Tyreke. As most of the league rejects small ball, maybe THAT'S the problem. Doesn't that make sense?
I was absolutely serious in pointing out Cousins' play. His rebounding is decreasing. I don't know about his scoring but I will guess so. We have guards that want to shoot and dominate the ball. That leaves out Cousins, our best player, and I think the development of Cousins has more to do with the long term success of this team than the development of IT.
I see no solution this year. I hope Thornton or Tyreke are traded over the summer, preferably Thornton. I want us to go away from small ball. I want us to get away from the dependence on outside shooting and I want to pound it inside as in the end, that is a more reliable offensive game. We already have the big guys to do it and probably need one more which very easily can be found in the draft.
Edit: I probably will not repond to any arguement about this as people have been arguing the general issue for two months without one person changing their opinion. Don Quixote may enjoy tilting at windmills but I do not. I just hope people will read my note with an open mind and not simply to find holes in my comments so they can come back with yet another "Yeah, but Tyreke ....." comment. Our problems go far beyond Tyreke Evans.
I can explain our success to playing a standard line up just as easy as people can speculate it has to do with Tyreke. As most of the league rejects small ball, maybe THAT'S the problem. Doesn't that make sense?
I was absolutely serious in pointing out Cousins' play. His rebounding is decreasing. I don't know about his scoring but I will guess so. We have guards that want to shoot and dominate the ball. That leaves out Cousins, our best player, and I think the development of Cousins has more to do with the long term success of this team than the development of IT.
I see no solution this year. I hope Thornton or Tyreke are traded over the summer, preferably Thornton. I want us to go away from small ball. I want us to get away from the dependence on outside shooting and I want to pound it inside as in the end, that is a more reliable offensive game. We already have the big guys to do it and probably need one more which very easily can be found in the draft.
Edit: I probably will not repond to any arguement about this as people have been arguing the general issue for two months without one person changing their opinion. Don Quixote may enjoy tilting at windmills but I do not. I just hope people will read my note with an open mind and not simply to find holes in my comments so they can come back with yet another "Yeah, but Tyreke ....." comment. Our problems go far beyond Tyreke Evans.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, after Kings fans complete their latest Webbering on him, the entire league that has been oh so critical of him is going to be all too happy to take him off your hands for you.
I think it would be helpful sometimes for Kings fans to actualy get league pass and here what the entire league is saying about their players. Do wonders for perspective.
xyrin
Bench
Oh, poor Tyreke. He never asked to be a franchise player, he never asked to have high expectations!! Then what about the blueprint? Was the blueprint all along "Reach the NBA and not want to become a franchise player"? Come on now. Of course he wants to be great. He just needs to put it all together.
Tyreke is 22. He hasn't reached his peak. It is head-scratching that you could even consider otherwise.
Tyreke has NOT worked at SF. Not in any shape or form. Look at his advanced stats when playing in this position, it is even worse than him at point guard. However, I think the offense runs SMOOTHER when he is out of the PG role, since it forces the offense to flow more without Tyreke pounding the ball.
Our small ball is due to the lack of a true small forward. We've got good size at the 2, 4 and 5 position. IT is a small point guard, but he makes it work. Tyreke should be playing at the TWO POSITION, not the one, not the three.
You are saying Cousins regressed this year? I'm scratching my head REALLY hard now. He is having a rough string of games in a very condensed season. He has easily progressed since last year, and I doubt you'll find anybody (other than yourself) who is saying otherwise.
I have a solution: Tyreke at SG, Thornton to the bench. Let Tyreke develop in a role where he CAN develop. He doesn't have the body for the SF position, and he doesn't have the natural PG ability required to be a PG. He DOES however have elite ISO skills, and he CAN develop a midrange game like Wade did. Put him at SG, let him develop there, keep it stable.
xyrin
Bench
I never once said he needed to be traded. I would hate if we gave up on Tyreke. Sorry that I criticize that we're most likely using him incorrectly, and that he should be developing at the shooting guard position for us. Honestly, if we didn't have Thornton, we'd probably be playing Tyreke in that role now, but I have the feeling the coach is too afraid to move Thornton to our bench.
Just because I can criticize a player doesn't mean I want to trade him. I criticized JT for being too quick with his game. That means I just wanted him to slow down, not to trade him. And now that he has slowed down his game, he has been great for us.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I made a major error in suggesting in any way that Tyreke should stay at the three. I didn't realize it would be translated that way as it isn't what I meant. I don't want him there but I want Smart to play a SF who actually is a SF.
The rest of my note should have clarified what I meant.
The rest of my note should have clarified what I meant.
xyrin
Bench
Gotcha, and I completely agree with you in that point. Sadly, our SFs are horrible, so Smart probably thought if we just fill that hole with a talented person out of position (Tyreke) it would be better than our other options. All that is going to do is hurt Tyreke's development at his more natural position.
I don't think we need to trade Tyreke or Thornton to get the SF we need. We can hopefully pick up a serviceable one in free agency or get a prospect through the draft if we get a pick high enough. Tyreke at SG, a defensive, 3-point shooting legit small forward, and then Thornton off the bench as the 6th man. I think that is the path we need to take for this team.
heh
Tonight, the Twolves announcers were commenting about how much smoother the Kings look with IT running the show and that Tyreke may be talented but it might be best if he didn't dominate the ball.
xyrin
Bench
Honestly, the entire basketball media criticizes Tyreke for that. But, oh no, if you're a Kings fan you better not bring up that point. Because obviously that means you want to alienate him and trade him from the team.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah. Sounds like someone's a little bitter that Kahn wound up picking Wes Johnson.
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