Troy Williams.... ANY QUESTIONS??

[ppine]

Williams and Shumpert look like basketball players. They have speed and versatility. They play hard. Very athletic even by todays standards. I like both of them a lot. They are very disruptive players on defense. Confident players that give you that high level of effort. Average shooters maybe, but play like they have been there before. There are certain guys you can go to war with and know they will back you up. I feel that way about Williams and Shumpert also.

 

[Blob]

Stockton is calling.

Justin Jackson is so bad, Stockton "lost his number". I think Justin should take up ballroom dancing. Basketball is not his thing. I think the gentleness of ballroom dancing is more his speed. He could be on Dancing with the Stars someday. This is his highest destiny, not guarding Giannis.

 

[Blob]

If he can start knocking down his outside shots he has a chance to log a lot of minutes at the SF spot.

The Knicks fans were pissed when they didn't retain him. That's tells you this guy was coming into his own. Running the floor and playing D is enough for him to be way more valuable than Jackson. Building around D-Fox is the objective and Williams fits. He doesn't have to make a lot of shots. That's gravy. He's not going to get a lot of shots anyway. The reason I love a guy like Williams is his skillset is a relative constant. Hustle and effort is a relative constant. Getting out on the break and dunking is a relative constant. As long as he is not committing dumb reach fouls, which I don't think he will, there is not a lot of variance relative to a player who does not give you much when his shot is not going in. With that said he seems like a confident shooter. No hesitation and smooth release.

 

[Showtime]

Here's a question: can they bench JJ and give his minutes to Troy?

 

[Jkbiker]

If Williams plays like this during his 45 days, would love to sign him for the rest of the year
If we could get anyone to take Ben or Zbo off our hands for free, would sign him right away
Not sure I would want to waive either until after the trade deadline in case they are used to trade
for bad salary/picks. If Ben is still here after deadline, would waive him to make room for Troy

 

[Jkbiker]

Here's a question: can they bench JJ and give his minutes to Troy?

Well if Skal and Giles have not earned the minutes, why should JJ if Troy and Shumpert are both playing better?
We could also play Buddy and Bogi at the 2 where they belong, with one of them elevating the Bench scoring

 

[mac]

Oh, come on. JJ has stunk it up on the stat sheet this year. But Joerger sees something in him and continues to give him opportunities. Maybe he'll be rewarded for his patience. Or maybe JJ brings intangibles that the coaches see but aren't clear to stat sheet scanners. But 20 min with no points and no rebounds is about all my patience can handle. Stockton is calling.

Thing is JJ for all intents and purposes plays the right way. His defense has been steady, and on offense he's making the right reads and plays and getting in position for great shots. Problem is he only knocks down one in every 10 3s he takes.

 

[Hallama]

He couldn't have found a better team to stick/fit. Bogdan still out, JJ is not playing well. And Kings needed an athlete off the bench. Kismet.

Kingsmet?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Oh, come on. JJ has stunk it up on the stat sheet this year. But Joerger sees something in him and continues to give him opportunities. Maybe he'll be rewarded for his patience. Or maybe JJ brings intangibles that the coaches see but aren't clear to stat sheet scanners. But 20 min with no points and no rebounds is about all my patience can handle. Stockton is calling.

So where were you when JJ had some good performances this season? Lying in wait to pounce on him again, it seems.

Now a guy that’s played one single good game is suddenly the answer. Good. Great. Wonderful. Grand.

The anti JJ crowd is the same crowd that was anti WCS and rode him for the past couple seasons but can’t this year so they’re doubling down on JJ. I’m just glad Joeger is the coach and not the impatient fans.

I’m not saying JJ has been good or that he will be, but as your patience with him has worn thin so has mine with overreactionary KINGS fans that want it all yesterday.

 

[Showtime]

So where were you when JJ had some good performances this season? Lying in wait to pounce on him again, it seems.

Now a guy that’s played one single good game is suddenly the answer. Good. Great. Wonderful. Grand.

The anti JJ crowd is the same crowd that was anti WCS and rode him for the past couple seasons but can’t this year so they’re doubling down on JJ. I’m just glad Joeger is the coach and not the impatient fans.

I’m not saying JJ has been good or that he will be, but as your patience with him has worn thin so has mine with overreactionary KINGS fans that want it all yesterday.

I think the issue is that other young guys have proven more with less time so why not give them burn? Why give up on those guys? Troy is 23 and showed some flashes in NYC, and I'd say Skal has shown me more potential than anything JJ has done in his career. So I don't get your argument. I'm not suggesting he be sent to the D league, but there are other young prospects that have proven to deserve minutes that are going to JJ.

 

[Blob]

Thing is JJ for all intents and purposes plays the right way. His defense has been steady, and on offense he's making the right reads and plays and getting in position for great shots. Problem is he only knocks down one in every 10 3s he takes.

Um no. His problems don't begin and end with his inability to make shots. He has more problems than that. He's not an NBA talent.

 

[gunks]

I'm not trying to pile on here, JJ has certainly had himself a few good games, but right now we're WINNING! If somebody is outplaying the kid, send him to the end of the bench until he can earn more time.

With the way we're running, everyone is going to get minutes anyways. Joerger's platoon strategy that irked so many of us last season is keeping our guys fresh.

G-league may be a bit of an overreaction (for JJ at least, I think it could do Giles some good), but I don't have any issues with him getting jumped in the rotation if somebody like Williams is going to make a bigger impact for us out there.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I think the issue is that other young guys have proven more with less time so why not give them burn? Why give up on those guys? Troy is 23 and showed some flashes in NYC, and I'd say Skal has shown me more potential than anything JJ has done in his career. So I don't get your argument. I'm not suggesting he be sent to the D league, but there are other young prospects that have proven to deserve minutes that are going to JJ.

Hey, if Troy Williams becomes the next great thing, I'm all for it. I hope he does. The KINGS need it. Same goes for JJ.

I'm just mocking those jumping on the bandwagon after 1 game. Williams has been in the league 1 season longer than JJ and hasn't accomplished anything more. But since he didn't languish on the KINGS roster, it's somehow different. When JJ has a good game, nobody's saying anything positive. I just don't get the inconsistency. It's worse than whatever inconsistency they believe JJ has. It just feels as if they are rooting for him to suck so they can harp on it and say "I told you so". That's how it looks to me.

My point continues to be this. JJ just started his 2nd season. WCS wasn't great his 1st two seasons but look how he's progressed since. Now in his 4th season, he's starting to show signs of consistency. Who is to say JJ can't develop similarly? And before someone hits me with "but WCS is a center and centers take more time to develop" I'll preemptively retort with Steve Nash and countless other guard/wing players. A lot of it has to do with finding confidence. Some players take more time than others to find theirs.

I think many fans have unrealistic expectations. If the players the KINGS draft don't blow up right away like Donovan Mitchell, they think they're busts. There's no patience or tolerance at all.

De'Aaron Fox was a much more heralded talent than JJ and he didn't blow up last season either. He's showing up this season so far, but he was also a more coveted talent. JJ doesn't have FOX's elite skills and thus will take longer to develop. But he has always been a winner. He was slow to develop at UNC too. But they eventually went to back-to-back title appearances and won one with him.

All I'm saying is don't write him off early in his 2nd year. We've already done that to too many players that have succeeded elsewhere.

 

[dude12]

Troy Williams is a long and super bouncy athlete who when inserted into our lineup with certain guys, gives the Kings more physicality and athleticism than JJ. That is a fact. Now whether he can knock down 3’s consistently it’s another story but based on watching JJ for a year and change, he can’t hit an open 3. He set the bar fairly low for a gu6 like Troy Williams to help.

Same thing as Shump and what he gives us. Physical defense and a spot up 3....he just needs to stay within himself. Shump and Troy Williams bring something to the wing that others just can’t right now......that is a fact.

 

[The Hammer]

Hey, if Troy Williams becomes the next great thing, I'm all for it. I hope he does. The KINGS need it. Same goes for JJ.

I'm just mocking those jumping on the bandwagon after 1 game. Williams has been in the league 1 season longer than JJ and hasn't accomplished anything more. But since he didn't languish on the KINGS roster, it's somehow different. When JJ has a good game, nobody's saying anything positive. I just don't get the inconsistency. It worse than whatever inconsistency they believe JJ has. It just feels as if they are rooting for him to suck so they can harp on it and say "I told you so". That's how it looks to me.

My point continues to be this. JJ just started his 2nd season. WCS wasn't great his 1st two seasons but look how he's progressed since. Now in his 4th season, he starting to show signs of consistency. Who is to say JJ can't develop similarly? A lot of it has to do with finding confidence. Some players take more time than others to find theirs.

I think many fans have unrealistic expectations. If the players the KINGS draft don't blow up right away like Donovan Mitchell, they think they're busts. There's no patience or tolerance at all.

De'Aaron Fox was a much more heralded talent than JJ and he didn't blow up last season either. He's showing up this season so far, but he was also a more coveted talent. JJ doesn't have FOX's elite skills and thus will take longer to develop. But he has always been a winner. He was slow to develop at UNC too. But they eventually went to back-to-back title appearances and won one with him.

All I'm saying is don't write him off early in his 2nd year. We've already done that to too many players that have succeeded elsewhere.

Shiny new toy. We'll see if it holds. Eye test tells me there's something there. Hope it lights a fire under JJ.

 

[The Hammer]

He couldn't have found a better team to stick/fit. Bogdan still out, JJ is not playing well. And Kings needed an athlete off the bench. Kismet.

Kingsmet?

Kingsmet! Love it!

 

[Double-K]

Troy can be that 3 and D sparkplug off the bench. Seems absolutely perfect for it. Yet another piece falls into our lap!

Small sample size, but Troy Williams looks like a mixture of what we thought Ben Mclemore and Justin Jackson would become. Let's see how he fares in the next 40 some days.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Troy Williams is a long and super bouncy athlete who when inserted into our lineup with certain guys, gives the Kings more physicality and athleticism than JJ. That is a fact.

Prove to me that this is a fact and not your opinion. Especially after just one game. You're killing me bro.

While it could end up becoming true, it's far too premature to be making declarations of fact.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Troy Williams is a long and super bouncy athlete who when inserted into our lineup with certain guys, gives the Kings more physicality and athleticism than JJ. That is a fact. Now whether he can knock down 3’s consistently it’s another story but based on watching JJ for a year and change, he can’t hit an open 3. He set the bar fairly low for a gu6 like Troy Williams to help.

Same thing as Shump and what he gives us. Physical defense and a spot up 3....he just needs to stay within himself. Shump and Troy Williams bring something to the wing that others just can’t right now......that is a fact.

Agree completely. I'm not curious to see what JJ is building with all those bricks. Troy flashed what he can do defensively immediately in the Washington game and then showed well last night. No reason I can see at this point to not go with him at this point. Troy has physical attributes that simply allow him to do more than JJ if shot isn't falling. If JJ is not hitting his shot then he is a big negative out there. Do the math it's pretty clear Troy should get JJs mins going forward to show if he can be consistent or not. Gabriel should also get a look during some of these games that shump is out.

Having disruptive forces at the Sf spot that are big time athletes to go with our front court and fox plus make a 3 ball is what this team needs. NOT a guy who is below average basically across the board and whose one saving grace is suppose to be a shooter/score but can't consistently make a wide open shot. We know what JJ is at this point. Maybe in time he can work out his shot. But in meantime Troy has given no reasons why JJ should be playing over him.

JJ can go join Giles in the development gym and re tool his 3 ball in the meantime

 

[Cojc]

The 11 minutes the night before in Miami was not bad.
I root for all of our players and want them to succeed. And some just take longer to develop.

JJ has had some good games and he seems to be getting a better feeling for the game.
But we need points from that position if nothing else but to spread the floor and take the pressure off the other players.

 

[chief bromden]

Dude has moxie and a nose for the ball, hopefully Joerger keeps giving him minutes. JJ has looked better this season, so I'm not ready to poop all over him but I definitely have some TP nearby if Troy keeps balling.

 

[dude12]

Prove to me that this is a fact and not your opinion. Especially after just one game. You're killing me bro.

While it could end up becoming true, it's far too premature to be making declarations of fact.

Because I just watched him and I’m not biased towards JJ as you have been since we drafted him. If you couldn’t see it in that game then watch him next game. Absolutely more physical and athletic. May not have the skills like JJ such as dribble penetration but he’s got JJ beat in areas.

 

[kingsfan101]

my only question. Justin Jackson 20 min, 0 points, 0 rebounds, why is he not in Stockton.
Happy for Troy, hope he sticks.

I think the season begins only on 11/02.

I know players can be sent down earlier, but JJ is still a potential part of the future, and it's important he stays with the team, if he's not doing much in Stockton either. Add to that the fact that he's the only real 3 we have, Bogi is missing, and this was Troy's breakout game. We don't know if he'll have similar games in future, or if he will get to see too much time once Bogi is back.

There is time to send JJ/Giles/Skal/Gabriel to Stockton. I'm a big advocate of that. However, I think the time for that will come once the season there starts, and even then, it might be good for them to come back during long home stretches, practice with the team, and potentially see some court time.

 

[dude12]

Troy might have gotten burn simply because of a better match up in Joerger’s view and for all we know, he may get a DNP-CD next game.

I didn’t care for the JJ pick but have been supporting him and waiting and hoping he can develop. One of my keys to the Kings taking a step forward before the season was JJ shooting closer to 40% from 3 than 30%. I’m not even sure he’s shooting 30%. He does a solid job on D but I agree with others where he is average across the board to this point.

Troy was gambling and making some poor decisions defensively but his motor runs high and he knocked down some 3’s....all over the place with his hustle. He doesn’t strike me as soft and I like that a whole bunch

 

[jiimbob]

So where were you when JJ had some good performances this season? Lying in wait to pounce on him again, it seems.

Now a guy that’s played one single good game is suddenly the answer. Good. Great. Wonderful. Grand.

The anti JJ crowd is the same crowd that was anti WCS and rode him for the past couple seasons but can’t this year so they’re doubling down on JJ. I’m just glad Joeger is the coach and not the impatient fans.

I’m not saying JJ has been good or that he will be, but as your patience with him has worn thin so has mine with overreactionary KINGS fans that want it all yesterday.

That's a generalization.. I for one have always been waiting patiently for Willie to match his unique skills with consistency. I even like it that he has interest outside of basketball.
JJ, on the other hand, I have been critical of since he was picked 15th. I think he was fortunate to have a storybook NCAA career but will never be relevant in the NBA. But we shall see.

 

[Blob]

So where were you when JJ had some good performances this season? Lying in wait to pounce on him again, it seems.

Now a guy that’s played one single good game is suddenly the answer. Good. Great. Wonderful. Grand.

The anti JJ crowd is the same crowd that was anti WCS and rode him for the past couple seasons but can’t this year so they’re doubling down on JJ. I’m just glad Joeger is the coach and not the impatient fans.

I’m not saying JJ has been good or that he will be, but as your patience with him has worn thin so has mine with over-reactionary KINGS fans that want it all yesterday.

Jackson was picked because he aced the interview with his nice guy persona and top school pedigree. We wanted nice guys post-Boogie. We wanted choir boys and found one. It was an overcorrection and blunder with Kuzma and OG available. Jackson is the guy you hire and regret it two minutes later when you realize you were duped. Most mid to late first round picks do NOT make it in the league. Odds were he was going to fail anyway. But that does not absolve one from miscalculation with Kuzma and OG on the board. I remember pulling up pre-draft video clips on Jackson and losing interest about the 0:30 second mark. There was nothing there to get excited about. There was nothing there but a scrawny scraper scraping for scraps. Fortunately in the same draft we got Mason who could prove to be as good as anyone picked beyond the Top 10. Mason may help to soften the blow of another bust. Mason is legit. I love the guy, his toughness and tenacity.

You raise a valid point on Willie. I was wrong on Willie. I am not hesitant to say I was wrong about Willie because he lied to us. I took him at his word. That was my mistake. I should not have believed in an eccentric personality speaking in circles and riddles. Willie was not committed to being the best player he could be until the 3rd offseason entering his 4th year. It took him a contract year to get serious. Until then he pretended to be serious while obsessing over his next tattoo. Basketball was a hobby not an obsession. If money is what it took to finally get serious, so be it. That's better than failing to ever find an adequate incentive and regret what could have been. The concern becomes if he gets 4/80 through 2022-23 will he revert to his former disinterested off-balanced half-assed self? I suppose that is a better problem to have than another player to added to the list of T-Rob, Papa G, Ben, Jimmer and Nik Rocks.

Willie was not going to live up to his potential if he could not stay on his feet. He fell down and got pushed around more than an intentional flopper. He fell down more than a guy trying to fall . You can't be effective if you are falling down when the air conditioner gets turned on. The name of the game is retaining your balance through contact to secure superior position on both ends. Then you complete the play from this advantageous spot. Willie was incapable of doing this. He would bail on possessions from disadvantageous position leading to a foul or easy score for the opponent or low percentage shot by him. Rather than fight he would concede. Willie did not have the greatest of pre-seasons but one thing I noticed is that he was staying on his feet! This portended good things. Willie said in his SLAM he was 100X better this year than last year. What does that say about his commitment prior to last summer? It says what he said he was a lie. He was all talk and no action. Finally he is backing up the talk. Forgive me if I did not see this emergence coming.

In 6 games Willie is 17/9/3 on 56%. He is not blocking shots but he is not turning it over. 6 games does not make a season make. The payday he desires is not earned over 6 games. It is earned over 60 games. Consistency is the name of the game. Can he keep it up? I think he can as long as money is not the sole motivator. There has to be something internal rather than external, intangible rather tangible . I think Willie needs to connect to that impulse to be the best he can be independent of financial rewards. He has to be motivated to be part of something greater than himself and own self interest. Money is not bad but it is not enough. If he is motivated by the pursuit of excellence, mastering his craft, raising his game to art form, being part of a renaissance, the money will flow. Willie also says he no longer be dictated by what the defense wants hims to do. He does what he wants to do . Imagine that! This is reflected in the patience he exhibits his ASST:TO and his unwillingness to try to make plays that are not there or take shots the defense is baiting him to take. Another lesson learned late but better than never. Once you get a taste of success you want more. The pace serves Willie well. The lob passers serve Willie well. The dive pick and roll plays are butter. Can he keep it up? Well he is staying on his feet after 3 years of falling on his butt so given that it suddenly seems like anything is possible.

 

[The Hammer]

Troy might have gotten burn simply because of a better match up in Joerger’s view and for all we know, he may get a DNP-CD next game.

I didn’t care for the JJ pick but have been supporting him and waiting and hoping he can develop. One of my keys to the Kings taking a step forward before the season was JJ shooting closer to 40% from 3 than 30%. I’m not even sure he’s shooting 30%. He does a solid job on D but I agree with others where he is average across the board to this point.

Troy was gambling and making some poor decisions defensively but his motor runs high and he knocked down some 3’s....all over the place with his hustle. He doesn’t strike me as soft and I like that a whole bunch

Joe DiMaggio got his first start cause somebody was out sick.

 

[jcassio]

So where were you when JJ had some good performances this season? Lying in wait to pounce on him again, it seems.

Now a guy that’s played one single good game is suddenly the answer. Good. Great. Wonderful. Grand.

The anti JJ crowd is the same crowd that was anti WCS and rode him for the past couple seasons but can’t this year so they’re doubling down on JJ. I’m just glad Joeger is the coach and not the impatient fans.

I’m not saying JJ has been good or that he will be, but as your patience with him has worn thin so has mine with overreactionary KINGS fans that want it all yesterday.

I make no apologies for my comments about JJ. And you're wrong in thinking that I'm on some Troy Williams bandwagon. I do like what we've seen from him, and I want to see more. But JJ is really struggling after a strong summer league. So I think it would be good for him to get some time in Stockton to work on his shooting (which is his biggest weakness). Did I say my patience is wearing thin with JJ? Yes I did. He's the weak link in our chain. Well, Harry may be close on his heals.

 

[miltonap]

Jj needs to go to Stockton and work on his shot

 

[Ozymandias]

Troy is from a big-time basketball family in the Virginia Area btw. His uncle, who raised him, Boo Williams has his own AAU program and there's a Nike Invitational Tournament in his name.

Another semi-worthless fact; He was roomates at IU with the Knicks Noah Vonleh.