[Game] Trailblazers @ Kings - 12/27/15 - 6 pm PST, 9 pm EST

You can't possibly believe that there are twenty-eight teams in the NBA with two players better than Rudy Gay?
I scanned the rosters and the only teams I can say have worse #2's are the Sixers, Nets, Nuggets, maybe the Lakers although it's hard to say with Kobe holding back all their young players. Name me another team besides those that Rudy would definitively be the #2 guy on.

I would probably rank Rudy in the 70-75 range overall in the NBA. Do you honestly think he's a top 40-50 player?
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
I scanned the rosters and the only teams I can say have worse #2's are the Sixers, Nets, Nuggets, maybe the Lakers although it's hard to say with Kobe holding back all their young players. Name me another team besides those that Rudy would definitively be the #2 guy on.

I would probably rank Rudy in the 70-75 range overall in the NBA. Do you honestly think he's a top 40-50 player?
If you genuinely believe that the Sixers, Nets, Nuggets and "maybe" (!!!) the lakers are the only teams in the NBA that don't have two players better than Rudy Gay, you're not likely to accept my reasoning, anyway.

Gay is a Top 10 small forward in the NBA. Now, that doesn't make him a Top 50 player in what is currently a guard-heavy league, but his "sorry-ness" is greatly exaggerated.
 
Rudy looks like he put on more weight to play more time at the 4, but it has cost him too much explosiveness. He's also not getting as many shots in his 'money' area, which is the FT line to the restricted area, where his length allows him to shoot short shots over defenders. The only thing to balance this out would be more three pointers, but he hasn't been consistent on those shots. The weight has hurt his drive game as well, so he's not getting that much off of pump-fakes.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I scanned the rosters and the only teams I can say have worse #2's are the Sixers, Nets, Nuggets, maybe the Lakers although it's hard to say with Kobe holding back all their young players. Name me another team besides those that Rudy would definitively be the #2 guy on.

I would probably rank Rudy in the 70-75 range overall in the NBA. Do you honestly think he's a top 40-50 player?
The grass may always be greener, but its not that green. Regardless of exact rank, half the teams it the league have nobody clearly better. Who's Houston's clear #2? New Orleans? What about Boston? Avery Bradley? Really?

the list goes on and on.
 
Far too inconsistent?

18 points per game on 45% shooting. Less than 2 turnovers per game.

Your post is not correct. It would be interesting to see you put such a plethora of players ahead of Rudy on every team (except the Sixers).
Lol 18 points on 45% FG (52% TS below average) isn't that good especially when you don't bring anything else. No defense, less than 2 assists per game, 30% on threes, too many games like this where he's a complete negative. He's been a loser everywhere he's been because he's always miscast as a 2nd option.

You keep your purple-tinted homer glasses on though brah. Rudy as #2 has clearly worked out so well, how dare anyone argue with those results. Enjoy another 29 win season.
 
The grass may always be greener, but its not that green. Regardless of exact rank, half the teams it the league have nobody clearly better. Who's Houston's clear #2? New Orleans? What about Boston? Avery Bradley? Really?

the list goes on and on.
Arguing with that is redundant. He's saying Rudy needs to leave the team because he's currently the 70-75th best player in the NBA. Brilliant reasoning.
 
Lol 18 points on 45% FG (52% TS below average) isn't that good especially when you don't bring anything else. No defense, less than 2 assists per game, 30% on threes, too many games like this where he's a complete negative. He's been a loser everywhere he's been because he's always miscast as a 2nd option.

You keep your purple-tinted homer glasses on though brah. Rudy as #2 has clearly worked out so well, how dare anyone argue with those results. Enjoy another 29 win season.
So absurd. It's not even worth arguing with that 'brah'.
 
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hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
The league in general does a better job defending point guards that can't shoot in the half court then they did during Boston's final runs. Thibs after getting away from that Boston team changed how teams guard the pick and roll.
Rondo is shooting 37% from three this season. He made 2 of them in the first quarter of this game. Until desperation time, the only shots he attempted in the second half today were layups. That's not it at all. Rondo can shoot. Portland didn't take him out of the game. He had 8 assists in the first quarter. What changed in the second half? A lot more Belinelli and Collison. We shot ourselves in the foot by going away from what was working.

And that's the big issue. When we start getting into our bench the offense grinds to a halt as guys take turns firing up bad shots. We have very little player movement on offense with the two and three guard lineups. We ran two sets in a row for Marco in the fourth quarter where Rondo held the ball at the top of the arc, Marco ran off a screen, and everyone else stood still for the entire shot clock. Then DeMarcus came in and our entire offense was dumping the ball to him and asking him to beat a double team or fire a long jumper. It's not like defenses are packing the paint against us, we're just electing to play idiotic telegraphed offensive sets for the entire fourth quarter where anyone in the arena could tell you where the ball is going to go.

We may luck our way into some wins playing this way (we got some really unlucky bounces at the end of this one to put it out of reach) but we're not dictating the game. I still think that Rondo and Collison together is the problem and it's not going away. Ben running off screens and threatening to hit shots makes us a tougher team to defend. With Casspi spotted up too and Cuz in the post the defense is stretched pretty thin. That should be our offense... and it was for the first half of the game. Then we got stagnant, iso-heavy, and stupid like we do in almost every game.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
Losing to the ****ing Blazers without lillard on your home court with 4 days rest. Pathetic basketball. Pathetic coaching. Who leaves a guy in having a night like Rudy? Meanwhile with 19 min and sitting on the bench, Ben hasn't missed a shot
No Ed Davis ethier
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
I agree but we need a PF that can defend and score as a 3rd big rather than Kosta
You didn't like Cousins and Kosta on the floor together. I thought Trill would be adequate and as he is already on the roster, no need to go hunting elsewhere. Cousins and Casspi do very well together but at some time you have to substitute.
 
I

Im Still Ballin

Guest
Rudy would work at the 4 if he didn't have the Dion Waiters syndrome

Can't shoot like Casspi off the catch and shoot. Prone to dribbling before release.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I didn't know where to put this so I decided to post it in here instead...what has happened to Cousins' offensive rebounding? I never see him go inside anymore battling for rebounds after the Kings put up a shot, instead he just runs back on the defensive end all ready instead of trying to get the team a second chance opportunity. Wasn't he top 3 in offensive rebounding just a year ago?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I didn't know where to put this so I decided to post it in here instead...what has happened to Cousins' offensive rebounding? I never see him go inside anymore battling for rebounds after the Kings put up a shot, instead he just runs back on the defensive end all ready instead of trying to get the team a second chance opportunity. Wasn't he top 3 in offensive rebounding just a year ago?
scheme

Scheme Pt 1: stay outside, create space for others (!!)
Scheme Pt 2: lurk back, don't overcommit so you can get back in transition defense

Its not hard to see the things that are valued and not valued by this coaching staff.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
If we had WCS, it might solve that problem. Not sure of what options there are until then.
Willie covers for Cuz in transition defense. Right now, we have no one to do that. Gay at times seems confused about who to guard in transition and I've seen both him and Casspi run to guard the same man. Willie makes a huge difference in that part of the game because he's usually the first one back on defense, and he can guard the basket. We need him back, and he needs more minutes. If he's a bit of a liability on offense, so be it.

I might add that last night, Curry came into the game and made an impact on defense (I never thought I would be saying this). He hustled, got a steal, and helped on two other occasions to cause the other team into a turnover. He seems to bust his butt when he's on the floor, and that's what this team needs. Ben went into his disappearing act again, and Belinelli continued to miss shots. If Belinelli isn't hitting shots, he becomes a liability. He's terrible defender, and he doesn't rebound. I'd rather give some of both players minutes to Curry and see what he can do. He's a hungry player that's played in his brothers shadow. No one on the team want's to make an impact more than Curry. I like players with incentive.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
scheme

Scheme Pt 1: stay outside, create space for others (!!)
Scheme Pt 2: lurk back, don't overcommit so you can get back in transition defense

Its not hard to see the things that are valued and not valued by this coaching staff.
Your implication is that the system doesn't fit Cousins, and that part I'll agree with. It doesn't! That doesn't mean that with the right tweaks here and there, and with Cousins getting used to the system, it can't work. The parts that bother me, is Cousins coming down the court with the game in crunch time and were down four points, and he jacks up a three. That's not on Karl. I can guarantee you that Karl wasn't happy with that shot. Maybe the biggest problem with Karls system is that he gives too much freedom to his main players. That means he's relying on their decisions to be good decisions. When they do make good decisions, we win.

I'm a huge Cousins fan, but some of this is his responsibility. And some of it is Karls, but it's not all on one person. Of course the buck stops with the coach, and at the end of the day, Karl will take the heat for whatever the outcome of the year is. I'm not a big fan, as a matter of fact, I hate when he plays Collison and Rondo together. Were basically playing what amounts to a zone defense, and with both of them on the floor together, it almost always allows the other team to get a mismatch, and on offense, if Collison gets the ball, it usually stops with him. On the nights he hitting everything, it's easy to overlook. I'm not a fan of Rudy at PF, although his defense has improved there. Overall though, Rudy looks a bit lost at that position.

I went and looked up some stats to see what leaped out at me. Our team 3pt shooting percentage is fine at 35.9%. We take 22.9 threes a game, which is around 12 or so in the league. Our rebounding is a little better than the middle of the pact. We're tied for the 12th spot and are around 9th or 10th in defensive rebounds. We're 4th in the league in assists, 10th in the league in steals, 8th in the league in shot attempts at 86.0 attempts a game, and 6th in field goal percentage at 45.6%. The only two stats that leap out at me are blocks a game, where we come in 23rd in the league, and in turnovers, where were the 3rd worse team in the league averaging 16.7 turnovers a game.

So on paper alone, it looks like if we can protect the basket better, and turn the ball over less, we'll win more games. Of course that's a simplistic way of looking at it, but you have to start somewhere. Personally, I think if we were to stay with the same passing and moving without the ball, but slow the whole thing down a tad, everything would improve. By the way, the system that Karl us using, the dribble drive system, doesn't usually put the big man out on the perimeter. It usually puts him right in the low post to clean up missed shots or post up. Kentucky uses the same system, and Cousins never wandered out to the three point line there. So maybe giving Cousins the freedom to do what he wants isn't the best way to go. I think Karl is giving Cousins the freedom to take three point shots, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wants him to take those shots.
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
I am not a fan of Collison and Rondo on the court at the same time. The problem then becomes, if we no longer go with that lineup, how do we use Collison? Is he simply a 12 min backup to Rondo? Think about it. I think the Rondo/Collison lineup is the only way of using Collison and giving him the amount of minutes he deserves.. I hope somehow there is a trade that resolves this problem. I don't see any other way of handling it.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Your implication is that the system doesn't fit Cousins, and that part I'll agree with. It doesn't! That doesn't mean that with the right tweaks here and there, and with Cousins getting used to the system, it can't work. The parts that bother me, is Cousins coming down the court with the game in crunch time and were down four points, and he jacks up a three. That's not on Karl. I can guarantee you that Karl wasn't happy with that shot. Maybe the biggest problem with Karls system is that he gives too much freedom to his main players. That means he's relying on their decisions to be good decisions. When they do make good decisions, we win.

I'm a huge Cousins fan, but some of this is his responsibility. And some of it is Karls, but it's not all on one person. Of course the buck stops with the coach, and at the end of the day, Karl will take the heat for whatever the outcome of the year is. I'm not a big fan, as a matter of fact, I hate when he plays Collison and Rondo together. Were basically playing what amounts to a zone defense, and with both of them on the floor together, it almost always allows the other team to get a mismatch, and on offense, if Collison gets the ball, it usually stops with him. On the nights he hitting everything, it's easy to overlook. I'm not a fan of Rudy at PF, although his defense has improved there. Overall though, Rudy looks a bit lost at that position.

I went and looked up some stats to see what leaped out at me. Our team 3pt shooting percentage is fine at 35.9%. We take 22.9 threes a game, which is around 12 or so in the league. Our rebounding is a little better than the middle of the pact. We're tied for the 12th spot and are around 9th or 10th in defensive rebounds. We're 4th in the league in assists, 10th in the league in steals, 8th in the league in shot attempts at 86.0 attempts a game, and 6th in field goal percentage at 45.6%. The only two stats that leap out at me are blocks a game, where we come in 23rd in the league, and in turnovers, where were the 3rd worse team in the league averaging 16.7 turnovers a game.

So on paper alone, it looks like if we can protect the basket better, and turn the ball over less, we'll win more games. Of course that's a simplistic way of looking at it, but you have to start somewhere. Personally, I think if we were to stay with the same passing and moving without the ball, but slow the whole thing down a tad, everything would improve. By the way, the system that Karl us using, the dribble drive system, doesn't usually put the big man out on the perimeter. It usually puts him right in the low post to clean up missed shots or post up. Kentucky uses the same system, and Cousins never wandered out to the three point line there. So maybe giving Cousins the freedom to do what he wants isn't the best way to go. I think Karl is giving Cousins the freedom to take three point shots, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wants him to take those shots.



Oh, it was pretty clear at what point last night Cousins just decided to take it on himself. It was pathetic, and yet he had a good point -- we had scored 7pts the entire quarter. Rondo was passing it to the other team. Rudy was off in space and couldn't have found the hoop with a map. Collison was just recklessly racing in 1 on 4 every few minutes to give the back back over, and Omri was passing up what few attempts he had. It was a smoking ruins, and finally Cuz just said screw it and tried to win it singlehandedly. That's never a good idea, its a terrible sign, but I know exactly what he was looking at when he made that decision, and for better or worse I think he scored as many points as we had all quarter in the final two minutes. jsut with the desperation play.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Oh, it was pretty clear at what point last night Cousins just decided to take it on himself. It was pathetic, and yet he had a good point -- we had scored 7pts the entire quarter. Rondo was passing it to the other team. Rudy was off in space and couldn't have found the hoop with a map. Collison was just recklessly racing in 1 on 4 every few minutes to give the back back over, and Omri was passing up what few attempts he had. It was a smoking ruins, and finally Cuz just said screw it and tried to win it singlehandedly. That's never a good idea, its a terrible sign, but I know exactly what he was looking at when he made that decision, and for better or worse I think he scored as many points as we had all quarter in the final two minutes. jsut with the desperation play.
Oh your right. It was frustrating to watch. It was especially frustrating to watch the ball movement result in an open shot and then watch that open shot get passed up to create a worse shot, or even no shot. I kept screaming for a timeout, but then I'm not sure how many Karl had left at that point. I'm all for unselfish play, but when you get an open shot, for god's sake, take the freaking shot. Casspi is the worse culprit in that dept. My issue with Cuz wasn't that he got frustrated and tried to win the game by himself, its the way he decided to do it. I would have rather had him attack the basket and if he misses, maybe he gets to the line. He's been getting the calls up until then. It seems that either the Kings show no patience, or too much patience.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I am not a fan of Collison and Rondo on the court at the same time. The problem then becomes, if we no longer go with that lineup, how do we use Collison? Is he simply a 12 min backup to Rondo? Think about it. I think the Rondo/Collison lineup is the only way of using Collison and giving him the amount of minutes he deserves.. I hope somehow there is a trade that resolves this problem. I don't see any other way of handling it.
First off, I don't think any player deserves anything. If something's not working, then you change it. If Collison plays less minutes, but the result is more wins, than I don't give a tinkers damm about how many minutes he gets. Frankly, the worse thing that ever happened to Collison is the Kings signing Rondo. The difference is night and day. That said, I'd like to see Rondo't minutes at around 31/32 minutes a game. He's about to turn 30 years of age and a few less minutes might help keep him healthy in the long run. That would give Collison around 18 minutes at the PG position, and when the matchups are right, you could put him on the floor with Rondo for a few minutes here and there.

I'd also like to see Karl figure out who is the best defender between Belinelli, McLemore, and Curry, and if Curry is one of the better defenders, then play him. I want to see better perimeter defense. Half of the fouls that Koufos and Cousins get are because of breakdowns on the perimeter. I'd like to see us do less switching on defense. There are times when you have to rotate, but rotate back when possible. If we did more of a show on the P&R, it would make it easier to switch back. That's the way we defended it under Adelman.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
First off, I don't think any player deserves anything. If something's not working, then you change it. If Collison plays less minutes, but the result is more wins, than I don't give a tinkers damm about how many minutes he gets. Frankly, the worse thing that ever happened to Collison is the Kings signing Rondo. The difference is night and day. That said, I'd like to see Rondo't minutes at around 31/32 minutes a game. He's about to turn 30 years of age and a few less minutes might help keep him healthy in the long run. That would give Collison around 18 minutes at the PG position, and when the matchups are right, you could put him on the floor with Rondo for a few minutes here and there.

I'd also like to see Karl figure out who is the best defender between Belinelli, McLemore, and Curry, and if Curry is one of the better defenders, then play him. I want to see better perimeter defense. Half of the fouls that Koufos and Cousins get are because of breakdowns on the perimeter. I'd like to see us do less switching on defense. There are times when you have to rotate, but rotate back when possible. If we did more of a show on the P&R, it would make it easier to switch back. That's the way we defended it under Adelman.
I don't think Collison has done anything to warrant less minutes if production is the issue. A couple games ago he scored 24 pts. If anyone deserves less minutes, it is the mega TO version of Rondo. He inflates his assist numbers by turning down easy shots for himself to give to someone else. That happens enough to be noticed. Now, sometimes you reward your hustling team mate but this seems more than that.

He is focused on leading the league in assists. So it seems. Our team goal should be to win and I think he has lost track of that to a certain extent. He is throwing the ball all over the place.

I think Curry is very motivated on defense. He is the mini-me version of WCS. ;)
 
Kings are missing hungry bench players, not necessarily good, but ones that would bust their limmited butts on the court.
Now we have experienced vets (Collison, Belli, Koufas), which are cool professionals.... too cool as in cold, lack of passion... which again is not necessarily bed except when you need that passionate spark.
With Caspi starting, Acy not used and WCS injured, there is no fire on the bench.