Trading up in the draft

[funkykingston]

An ideal off-season in my mind:

Trade Carl Landry or (probably more likely) Jason Thompson and possibly filler and the #5 pick to New Jersey for the #3.

At #3 draft DeMarcus Cousins
At #33 draft Dominique Jones, Sylven Landesberg, James Anderson or Willie Warren

Sign-and-Trade for Chris Bosh

Why would the Nets do this deal? I don't know that they would. But it would give them a PF to slide alongside Lopez as well as a pick that likely gets them their choice of SF prospects in Johnson or Aminu while still preserving their caproom. Unless they fall in love with Favors (or Turner falls in their lap) I think there's good chance they'd bite.

With the 33rd pick I'd be looking for an off the bench scorer (shooter ideally) at the guard position and/or someone to pair with Tyreke. I like Dominique Jones a lot and he'd continue the trend of tough defenders. Willie Warren could be very undervalued in this draft but he's much more one-dimensional and a boom or bust prospect. I'm not as high on Landesberg and I think Anderson is overrated and a weak defender.

As for Bosh, it may not be a realistic scenario but the idea of a young stud in Tyreke and a big body behind him in Cousins could be appealing. With the Kings cap room they can do a sign-and-trade which gives the Raptors something (Hawes and or Casspi?) while giving Bosh the most possible money.

Realistic? Maybe. Both major moves are possible but getting both done is the key. But if it were to happen the lineup looks like this:

C Cousins
PF Bosh
SF Greene
SG Evans
PG Udrih

With Landry, Garcia, Nocioni, the 2nd round pick and possibly Hawes or Casspi off the bench.

Yeah, I could live with that.

 

[91sickness]

If we are gonna trade up for Cousins I say we trade up 1 spot and send a guy like Garcia, but if we are also going to try and bring in Bosh we might be able to send a big to Minnesota and get 1 of their later 1st round picks as well. Bosh isnt coming here he wants to go play w 1 of the big boys. Our best bet is for Wes Johnson to blow people away in his workouts and hope Cousins falls to us at 5. If not we are going to have to figure out who the twolves want along side our pick to move up 1 spot.

 

[Megalodon]

I disagree.

I feel reaching in the draft when you really don't know what you will get at #5 is all bad. Especially when you are giving up a player with decent potential and looking to have a breakout year. That is assuming he learns a little bit of something rofl.

 

[funkykingston]

If we are gonna trade up for Cousins I say we trade up 1 spot and send a guy like Garcia, but if we are also going to try and bring in Bosh we might be able to send a big to Minnesota and get 1 of their later 1st round picks as well. Bosh isnt coming here he wants to go play w 1 of the big boys. Our best bet is for Wes Johnson to blow people away in his workouts and hope Cousins falls to us at 5. If not we are going to have to figure out who the twolves want along side our pick to move up 1 spot.

I have a feeling that it's more likely that Cousins goes higher than expected (say #2) than falls to #5. But he could very well be there at 4 and a deal struck with the Wolves. In that case it could be someone like Garcia and a cash deal. But seeing Kahn's approach to the draft he seemingly always takes what he considers the BPA regardless of position. Johnson would fit better, but I don't think he cares.

I disagree.

I feel reaching in the draft when you really don't know what you will get at #5 is all bad. Especially when you are giving up a player with decent potential and looking to have a breakout year. That is assuming he learns a little bit of something rofl.

I don't see it as a reach. Obviously Petrie will have to evaluate Cousins and the other picks possibly available but I see a guy that FINALLY strengthens what has been a Kings weakness for the last 8 years - man-to-man post defense while also giving us a bonafide low post threat to pair with a stud guard - always a good combination in the NBA.

I don't think I can stomach yet another year of the Joel Pryzbilla's of the world looking like the second coming of Wilt as they abuse our frontcourt starters down low.

I LIKE Jason Thompson. And given that Bosh is a pipe dream, I'd much rather keep him and still get Cousins.

But in my mind DeMarcus Cousins is so many of the things this young Kings team needs. And if Geoff feels the same way then you don't sit on your hands and grab another SF (Johson or Aminu) if that's what falls to you - you aggressively move up and get what you want.

 

[gunks]

I'd rather ship off Hawes or Landry to get Cousins than part with JT.

Landry is undersized, and Hawes is weaksauce. When JT's heads on right he's a pretty solid 16/10/1.5blk PF.

I agree with the idea of trading up though. We NEED a frontcourt boost. If we can nab Cuz by giving up one of Hawes or Landry than I'm down, otherwise I think we should try to trade down and get one of Aldrich/Udoh/Whiteside/Monroe.

...5th pick effin sucks. We'd be just as well off picking 8th or 9th.

 

[Anthony1]

...5th pick effin sucks. We'd be just as well off picking 8th or 9th.

Exactly, this is why we trade down. Honestly, I think Minnesota isn't going to really want Cousins. They will surely pretend like they do, cause they know they can squeeze some talent for free. But the only thing I would offer them is Francisco Garcia. Giving up one of our bigs, no matter how underperforming they've been so far, just to move up one spot? Hell no. I'd throw in next years 2nd rounder if need be, before I give up one of our bigs.

 

[Megalodon]

But in my mind DeMarcus Cousins is so many of the things this young Kings team needs. And if Geoff feels the same way then you don't sit on your hands and grab another SF (Johson or Aminu) if that's what falls to you - you aggressively move up and get what you want.

If GP really feels it is worth it to move up for him, I'd be thrilled cause that would mean he is that good, but I personally don't see what all of the appeal is, he looks good and may be the best fit for us ... but when you are rebuilding you should try and keep the pieces you do have.

But like you said, if we move up for him he must be that much better than everyone else, and another star is always welcome.

 

[funkykingston]

But like you said, if we move up for him he must be that much better than everyone else, and another star is always welcome.

And that's exactly it. Cousins has to look to Petrie like a potential star, not a solid to great role player. I'm not saying he is, though he has the potential to be. I like Thompson. And Landry. And Greene and Casspi and Beno. And even Hawes during those moments he shows the potential he could possibly have in his prime. But at the same time, the Kings have one star and that's Tyreke Evans and having a "good" supporting cast is nowhere near as valuable as having a second star.

ESPECIALLY one that compliments your existing star. If Cousins has that kind of potential then he's miles better for Sacramento than a pairing of Evans and Wall or even Turner. And if you can get two young stars to be the cornerstone of your franchise then you trade away what you need to in order for that to happen - even a promising young PF.

But again, it all hinges on whether or not Petrie really sees Cousins as a major building block and future star or a guy who is only a slight upgrade from Cole Aldrich.

 

[Megalodon]

Yes !

I just want them to pick they guy they feel gives us the best chance to win in the longterm, not short term. Picking the guy that has the most potential to be a star is what we need to do.

 

[Gary]

Exactly, this is why we trade down. Honestly, I think Minnesota isn't going to really want Cousins. They will surely pretend like they do, cause they know they can squeeze some talent for free. But the only thing I would offer them is Francisco Garcia. Giving up one of our bigs, no matter how underperforming they've been so far, just to move up one spot? Hell no. I'd throw in next years 2nd rounder if need be, before I give up one of our bigs.

Why wouldn't they want Cousins? they NEED a center. They went as far as benching Love and moving Jefferson to PF.. Minny really needs a Center, and I cannot see them passing on Cousins.

If we could get Love from Minny though with our pick I would be more than willing to!

 

[LWP777]

Why wouldn't they want Cousins? they NEED a center. They went as far as benching Love and moving Jefferson to PF.. Minny really needs a Center, and I cannot see them passing on Cousins.

If we could get Love from Minny though with our pick I would be more than willing to!

Agree 100% with everything you said here. Kevin Love for our 5th pick would be amazing. He's exactly what we need right now.

As far as Chris Bosh coming to the Kings, it's not going to happen. I want to throw up every time somebody posts a Chris Bosh coming to Sac scenario.

 

[Megalodon]

Is Love really good enough to warrant a #5 pick ? I'm not to big on him as I haven't seen him play that much ...

 

[Gary]

Is Love really good enough to warrant a #5 pick ? I'm not to big on him as I haven't seen him play that much ...

I LOVE Love.. Have since UCLA.. The guy can board with the best of them, and he has BB IQ up the yazoo.. In Minnesota Fans were thinking Love was benched instead of Jefferson because of how each would react. But it's pretty clear going forward they would rather have Love than Jefferson as they are shopping him. He's definitely worth a 5th. He would give us 18/12/3 starting at PF right away with the potential to go 20+ppg and 13+rpg.

In this Scenario we might have to get another big man in here though as pairing Thompson/Love, or Hawes/Love won't improve D at all. We would still have the same issues as we did last year, although we would have more talent.

 

[funkykingston]

I like Kevin Love a lot. But unfortunately he's not what this Kings team needs.

I'd MUCH rather trade up to assure ourselves of getting Cousins than trade out of the 5 spot for Kevin Love.

That said, I am starting to think that Philadelphia may just grab Cousins at #2. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[bajaden]

I'm a big fan of Love's, but he doesn't solve any problems for us. I'm sick of just moving players around. We need to add to what we have or else were just treading water.

If we can trade up to get Cousins I'm all for it. And if we have to include a player to do it thats fine too. But lets trade from where we have a surplus. At the SF position. Its rumored that the 76ers are willing to trade down. They need help everywhere. We could offer them Casspi, who would be a bigger attraction back east than out here, and the 5th pick.

I know that everyone thinks the Timberwolves will certainly take Cousins if he's there. I don't think thats a given. They desperately wanted Turner, and I wouldn't rule out them trying to move up to get him. But they're also very high on Johnson. Their GM has been saying for a month that one of his teams biggest priority's is to improve on the perimeter. Both offensively and defensively. Johnson would certainly help them in that area.

They want to resign Millicic, and apparently he would like to come back. They're also trying to negotiate a buyout for Nikola Pedovic, a 6'11" center. So its not like they don't have any other options at the center position. If Cousins drops to the 4 spot, I could see them possibly making a deal with the Kings. Especially if its their intention to take Johnson at that point.

 

[JB_kings]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

 

[Gtronic]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

$51 million over the next three seasons. OUCH!!!!

 

[sdballer]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

I saw that too. Very interesting. Obviously Brand's salary is absurd and he isn't the player he once was but you'd at least have to consider it. You're cap space would be gone (unless you could convince them to take back Noc or Garcia) but you would solidify your backcourt for the next half decade while picking up a better big man right now than anyone you can draft at 5. The cap space is obviously the scary part of this whole thing.

 

[funkykingston]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

In a pick swap? Probably not. I don't see a Turner/Evans backcourt being enough to create a huge step forward for this team AND it would eliminate the available caproom. Paying $51 million to move up three spots is never going to happen.

On the other hand, if they are desperate enough to want out from under his deal that they would take back a decent player or two and the cap relief for the pick then I certainly might.

Say Garcia and Hawes or Landry for Brand and the #2 with the Kings absorbing the difference with their caproom?

If that were the case then the Kings have two top 5 picks and even though Brand's contract is an albatross, it runs out before Tyreke is due for his big payday, let alone whoever is drafted this year.

The only way I could see that happening is if Geoff sees that:

(1) the Kings have little chance of using their caproom to attract a marquee free agent and (2) the player he'd get at #2 would have true star potential and the pick at #5 would yield a very strong contributor as well.

If the cards fell right that could mean Turner AND Cousins.

A lineup of

Evans
Turner
Greene
Thompson
Cousins

with Beno, Casspi and either Hawes or Landry off the bench would be incredibly fun to watch.

That's a steep price to gamble on two rookies, but again it all depends on Petrie's analysis of this year's crop of draftees.

 

[JB_kings]

Reading it again, it may not even involve sending our pick back their way. You would Have the #2 & #5. Yeah Brand might be ready for the glue factory soon and the contract would eat up most of the free cap space. But I dont think the Kings are going to sign a huge contract guy unless it's a premium name. And who wants to sign a decent player for star money? If you believe in building through the draft and can add Turner and a big man like Cousins or Monroe in one move. I might swallow hard and do that if they took back Nocioni in the deal.

 

[hrdboild]

Elton Brand makes a ton of money, but he only has three years left on that massive contract and there's a chance he'd still be a valuable player. I'm unclear at this point how much of Brand's struggles are due to lost athleticism from injuries and how much are due to playing for two different coaches who each got fired after one season. If we're going to move up in this draft, dealing with Philly seems most likely.

In the few days since the lottery I've cooled down from 'we have to trade up' to 'maybe we'll get a good player at 5 anyway'. If you think Cousins might drop to 5, then taking on Brand's salary probably isn't worth it. I'm starting to think Aminu's size and athleticism at the 3 spot would look pretty good next to Tyreke as well. But Turner or Favors are only going to be options if we trade up. I guess it would depend on what else they wanted. If we could somehow keep the 5 pick and make this trade I would do it. They can have anything else other than Tyreke or Casspi I'd say with Donte Green or Jason Thompson being a last resort as well.

 

[Sparky6string]

I'm a big fan of Love's, but he doesn't solve any problems for us. I'm sick of just moving players around. We need to add to what we have or else were just treading water.

If we can trade up to get Cousins I'm all for it. And if we have to include a player to do it thats fine too. But lets trade from where we have a surplus. At the SF position. Its rumored that the 76ers are willing to trade down. They need help everywhere. We could offer them Casspi, who would be a bigger attraction back east than out here, and the 5th pick.

I know that everyone thinks the Timberwolves will certainly take Cousins if he's there. I don't think thats a given. They desperately wanted Turner, and I wouldn't rule out them trying to move up to get him. But they're also very high on Johnson. Their GM has been saying for a month that one of his teams biggest priority's is to improve on the perimeter. Both offensively and defensively. Johnson would certainly help them in that area.

They want to resign Millicic, and apparently he would like to come back. They're also trying to negotiate a buyout for Nikola Pedovic, a 6'11" center. So its not like they don't have any other options at the center position. If Cousins drops to the 4 spot, I could see them possibly making a deal with the Kings. Especially if its their intention to take Johnson at that point.

Agree about Love- I Love him but he doesn't address our problems unfortunately. Johnson IS a great pick for Timberwolves, a smarter pick than Cousins IMO because they need shooting, but they have been considering trading all of their bigs so it's not a lock that they won't take Cousins. They aren't happy with their bigs and any one of them can go.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That's a steep price to gamble on two rookies, but again it all depends on Petrie's analysis of this year's crop of draftees.

Exactly. We'd be right up against the salary cap for three years (though sending Noc back would help that a bit in years 1 and 2). Presumably we would need to get one big man and one wing with the two picks, so either

Turner and Monroe/Aldrich/Udoh/(Cousins)/other

or

Favors and Johnson/Aminu

But from there it would be "chemistry-building" time - it would be tough to get new assets for the next three years.

Evans/Udrih
Turner/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson/Brand
Monroe/Hawes

OR

Evans/Udrih
Johnson/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Favors/Landry/Brand
Thompson/Hawes

Can either of those teams challenge? Could we turn a #2 + #5 into the equivalent of Durant/Green (or better)? If so...hard to say no.

 

[sdballer]

Exactly. We'd be right up against the salary cap for three years (though sending Noc back would help that a bit in years 1 and 2). Presumably we would need to get one big man and one wing with the two picks, so either

Turner and Monroe/Aldrich/Udoh/(Cousins)/other

or

Favors and Johnson/Aminu

But from there it would be "chemistry-building" time - it would be tough to get new assets for the next three years.

Evans/Udrih
Turner/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson/Brand
Monroe/Hawes

OR

Evans/Udrih
Johnson/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Favors/Landry/Brand
Thompson/Hawes

Can either of those teams challenge? Could we turn a #2 + #5 into the equivalent of Durant/Green (or better)? If so...hard to say no.

Both those lineups have a ton of young talent and I think could really compete. The thing with Brand is he still produces (13ppg, 6-7rpgs, 1+blks and steals), just not at a level anywhere near his salary. But if you could send back $5-6 million in salary, I think the sacrifice in cap space could be worth it. Especially if Cousins is still on board at 5.

 

[Rug King]

I don't see Petrie trading up for a higher pick. He didn't do it last year when they REALLY wanted Tyreke and were unsure if he'd fall to 4th. In fact, I can't remember Petrie ever trading up in the lottery.

I'm thinking he keeps the 5 and take the best available.

 

[sdballer]

I don't see Petrie trading up for a higher pick. He didn't do it last year when they REALLY wanted Tyreke and were unsure if he'd fall to 4th. In fact, I can't remember Petrie ever trading up in the lottery.

I'm thinking he keeps the 5 and take the best available.

Debbie Downer

Sadly, you are probably right. The alternative would require Geoff to be aggressive.

 

[hrdboild]

I think we would all fall out of our chairs if Geoff aggressively moved up in the draft. That doesn't mean it's not fun to think about though. If we got Turner and Cousins or Favors and Cousins or Favors and Aminu or some other combination thereof we could potentially end up with the two best players in the draft Portland style. How's that for a rebuild? We all know Lebron's not coming anyway, and neither are Bosh or Wade. That Favors/Aminu combo in particular is intriguing to me right now. Two soft-spoken hard-working guys with tons of potential would fit in pretty well with this team I think.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don't see Petrie trading up for a higher pick. He didn't do it last year when they REALLY wanted Tyreke and were unsure if he'd fall to 4th.

On the other hand, I don't remember seeing any reports that the #2-3 picks were being shopped last year (for one thing, MEM/OKC weren't sitting on any hideous contracts they wanted to shed). I'm not sure we can take this #2 + Brand rumor as gospel truth, but it has a ring of plausibility. And it's the kind of move that a franchise that is unlikely to sign that huge marquee free agent can use to stockpile huge amounts of talent.

Are we willing to pay $51M over three years to a declining bench PF in order to get a #2 pick in a very strong draft? It's expensive, it really is. But on the other hand, you have three top-5 picks in two years, add to that Greene and Casspi and Thompson and Hawes and tell me that's not exactly what Oklahoma City (#2 Durant, #5 Green; #4 Westbrook; #3 Harden; Sefolosha the only other big piece) is doing. Portland is close (built with #2 Aldridge, #6 Roy; #1 Oden; and Batum and Fernandez and Webster and Przybilla), then a few years down the road spent for Miller and traded for Camby (on the same time frame that Brand would be expiring, and possibly tradeable for a vet like Camby). I'm just thinking that the pattern seems to fit recent models of rebuilding success.

 

[bajaden]

Both those lineups have a ton of young talent and I think could really compete. The thing with Brand is he still produces (13ppg, 6-7rpgs, 1+blks and steals), just not at a level anywhere near his salary. But if you could send back $5-6 million in salary, I think the sacrifice in cap space could be worth it. Especially if Cousins is still on board at 5.

I don't know how many times you watched the 76ers play, but the style they played didn't fit Brand's game at all. They were constantly pushing the ball up the court and many times had shot the ball before Brand could even get into a post position. In other words they did nothing to cater to his game. Brand is mostly a half court player now. Really he always has been, but since the injury even more so.

What I'm trying to say is that in the right scheme he could still be productive. This is by no means an endorsement of the deal. Just pointing out that Brand's stats are probably lower than they should be.

 

[sdballer]

I don't know how many times you watched the 76ers play, but the style they played didn't fit Brand's game at all. They were constantly pushing the ball up the court and many times had shot the ball before Brand could even get into a post position. In other words they did nothing to cater to his game. Brand is mostly a half court player now. Really he always has been, but since the injury even more so.

What I'm trying to say is that in the right scheme he could still be productive. This is by no means an endorsement of the deal. Just pointing out that Brand's stats are probably lower than they should be.

Yeah, that team was basically a disaster. A coach that failed to utilize the players he had (basically because he's a one-trick pony), a mismatch of players and some real chemistry issues. I think Brand actually came into the season looking healthy, slimmed down and he played all but a handful of games. He's on the downside of his career but I think he can still play 30+ minutes of valuable basketball. He's just expensive.