Trading the pick.

#61
I see the possible deals as being:
  1. Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for John Collins and #16
  2. Richaun Holmes & #7 for Mason Plumlee, PJ Washington, #13, & #15
  3. Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Patrick Williams & #18
  4. Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, & #7 for Jerami Grant & Saddiq Bey
  5. Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Christian Wood, Usman Garuba, & #17
  6. Chimezie Metu & #7 for Jaden McDaniels & #19
  7. Mo Harkless & #7 for Aleksej Pokusevski & Lu Dort
  8. Richaun Holmes, Justin Holiday, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Pascal Siakam

I think I like #2, #4, and #8 the best. Washington and two mid 1sts is a good way to add a lot solid youth to the team. Grant is a solid fit next to Sabonis and Bey is a great piece to add between Fox & Sabonis. Siakam would be the best player on our team and help improve the defense from the PF spot.
 
#62
I see the possible deals as being:
  1. Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for John Collins and #16
  2. Richaun Holmes & #7 for Mason Plumlee, PJ Washington, #13, & #15
  3. Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Patrick Williams & #18
  4. Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, & #7 for Jerami Grant & Saddiq Bey
  5. Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Christian Wood, Usman Garuba, & #17
  6. Chimezie Metu & #7 for Jaden McDaniels & #19
  7. Mo Harkless & #7 for Aleksej Pokusevski & Lu Dort
  8. Richaun Holmes, Justin Holiday, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Pascal Siakam

I think I like #2, #4, and #8 the best. Washington and two mid 1sts is a good way to add a lot solid youth to the team. Grant is a solid fit next to Sabonis and Bey is a great piece to add between Fox & Sabonis. Siakam would be the best player on our team and help improve the defense from the PF spot.
Holy crap number #7 please
 
#64
I see the possible deals as being:
  1. Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for John Collins and #16
  2. Richaun Holmes & #7 for Mason Plumlee, PJ Washington, #13, & #15
  3. Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Patrick Williams & #18
  4. Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, & #7 for Jerami Grant & Saddiq Bey
  5. Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Christian Wood, Usman Garuba, & #17
  6. Chimezie Metu & #7 for Jaden McDaniels & #19
  7. Mo Harkless & #7 for Aleksej Pokusevski & Lu Dort
  8. Richaun Holmes, Justin Holiday, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Pascal Siakam

I think I like #2, #4, and #8 the best. Washington and two mid 1sts is a good way to add a lot solid youth to the team. Grant is a solid fit next to Sabonis and Bey is a great piece to add between Fox & Sabonis. Siakam would be the best player on our team and help improve the defense from the PF spot.
Looking at this draft, if the Kings are dropping from 7-8 to outside the lottery I can't see that being of great value to the Kings unless someone like Agbaji is for sure there. Value wise maybe the Collins deal and the Detroit are close although I think the Kings might be able to keep their pick and make a major run at Grant next summer anyway if Monte doesn't re-sign Donte and can move Holmes off the books. And I'm leaning towards not going with a Collins type. Look at the teams on defense in the playoffs and tell me who isn't playing small and switching all day. The Heat just locked up Young who is supposedly >>> Fox according to some without their big 2, and the C's just locked up KD doing that. I'm not sure the Raps do number 8 but that would be the biggest mover on paper.
 
#65
Number 3, not sure how Patrick Williams has looked in his first two years, outside of wrist injury, but if it’s anything like we expected coming out of college that’s an interesting trade. We get our SF and there will be a good player at 18.
I’m never a fan of trading down a higher pick for two lower picks, but this is for a two year vet so there should be some indication of league success. Vlade’s trade downs were a huge disappointment both times but they could have worked out a lot better. Just more homework with lower picks.
Siakam would be nice but the second unit just got decimated.
 
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#66
I see the possible deals as being:
  1. Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for John Collins and #16
  2. Richaun Holmes & #7 for Mason Plumlee, PJ Washington, #13, & #15
  3. Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Patrick Williams & #18
  4. Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, & #7 for Jerami Grant & Saddiq Bey
  5. Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Christian Wood, Usman Garuba, & #17
  6. Chimezie Metu & #7 for Jaden McDaniels & #19
  7. Mo Harkless & #7 for Aleksej Pokusevski & Lu Dort
  8. Richaun Holmes, Justin Holiday, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & #7 for Pascal Siakam

I think I like #2, #4, and #8 the best. Washington and two mid 1sts is a good way to add a lot solid youth to the team. Grant is a solid fit next to Sabonis and Bey is a great piece to add between Fox & Sabonis. Siakam would be the best player on our team and help improve the defense from the PF spot.
1. Seems ok? Don't think the Hawks would trade for another true C as the main player asset with Capela/Okongwu on board.

2. My favorite of your proposed deals. Basically two separate trades combined: 7 for 13+15 and Holmes for Plumlee+PJ. Works extremely well from a value sense.

3. Potentially a lot for Pat Williams, but I think the way I'd look at it is if Pat Williams was in this draft, we'd absolutely want him at #7. He'd be right in that tier 2 of prospects. I think I'd rather try and see if they'd take Barnes as a short-term upgrade with their win now core first.

4. This is a no. Giving up all 3 of our premium assets for Grant on a 1 year deal and Bey just isn't great value. I like Bey a ton, but not for the tag we're paying. Maybe if we had a little more security on Grant? But even then, I'm not the biggest fan of how Grant has progressed the last few years.

5.Probably not enough for Houston. I know Wood is on a 1 year deal, but he's still an asset that can probably pull pretty close to 7 on his own. Not sure they'd need to include both Garuba and 17 to get this deal done for & and enders.

6. Really fun trade with how McDaniels has developed. Glove fit at the 4, although needs to shoot better. I think it's a pass though; I'll take my chances on the tier 2 prospects just being better than McDaniels.

7. Little scary with Dort being an UFA, but the idea is interesting. I'm not a Poku guy; he has tools, but he just... isn't good. There's time, but he's got to take big leaps in a lot of important areas before he becomes starting caliber, much less a feature piece. I think I'd rather just make a play for Dort in UFA when we have all that cap space and keep #7.

8. Too many moving pieces. 5 for 1 deals never happen unless we had a 3rd team involved. And I just don't see the Raptors blowing up their core yet.
 
#67
4. This is a no. Giving up all 3 of our premium assets for Grant on a 1 year deal and Bey just isn't great value. I like Bey a ton, but not for the tag we're paying. Maybe if we had a little more security on Grant? But even then, I'm not the biggest fan of how Grant has progressed the last few years.
I hardly consider Holmes to be a "premium asset." He's likely a late 1st at best (and that is assuming his legal issues turn out to be nothing).

Also, you acknowledged in the next proposal that Wood is on a 1 year deal as well but that he's probably worth something pretty close to #7 on his own but that logic is not carrying over to Grant here. Wood is a couple years younger, but I'd say Grant plays a more important, harder position to fill (SF/PF). For what it's worth, I don't believe either Grant or Wood are worth #7. I think they're likely to fetch a mid 1st at best (similar to Barnes).

I love Bey and wanted us to draft him before Haliburton slid all the way down to us. He's a full sized wing at 6'8" who is 216 lbs with a 6'11" wingspan. He's a great shooter who I see consistently shooting above 38% on high volume. His passing/playmaking is very promising (3.1 AST/36 min with a 2.43 AST:TO). And he's a good, smart defender. He reminds of Middleton and I see him having that type of potential. I think Bey is worth quite a bit by himself and that we'd be ecstatic if our 7th pick looked as good as him out of the gate.

I also really like the lineup this gives us:

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo
SG - Bey / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday
PF - Grant / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len

  • Scoring options would be solid. We're missing the ideal #1 scorer that you see on championship teams, but everyone in the starting lineup has the ability to average 16+ PPG. Allows us to attack the defense at every position and exploit the mismatch of the night.
  • Shooting wise over the past 3 seasons, Fox had a .306 3P% on 4.7 3PA/36min, Bey had a .361 3P% on 8.4 3PA/36min, Barnes had a .389 3P% on 4.4 3PA/36min, Grant had a .364 3P% on 5.8 3PA/36min, & Sabonis had a .305 3P% on 2.0 3PA/36 min. I wouldn't call that elite but it's more than adequate with 3 solid shooter at SG, SF, & PF with your PG & C able to provide a bit of spacing for each other.
  • Playmaking would be solid with Fox & Sabonis handling the bulk of the duties, but Bey, Barnes, & Grant are all capable of averaging a few assists per game with a positive AST:TO. Everyone should be able to shoot, dribble, drive, and find the open man.
  • Rebounding should be alright. Grant isn't a good rebounder for his position but Sabonis is a great rebounder and Bey would be an added boost by playing him at SG.
  • Defensively is likely our biggest question mark as Fox & Sabonis aren't particularly good on this side of the ball and will always make it challenging for us to be a good defensive team, but Grant was known for his defense in DEN when he wasn't asked to be a #1 option. He theoretically is a great defensive fit next to Sabonis with his athleticism, length, ability to guard PFs, and be a rim protector. Bey is also a good & smart perimeter defender with excellent size & length. Barnes is average defensively - not someone who is going to particularly hurt you on that side of the ball.
  • The bench would be pretty solid although I'd like us to sign a true PG in FA as I don't like the idea of DiVincenzo being our true backup PG. I like him better in that backup SG role. However, DiVincenzo, Davis, Holiday, and Lyles is a solid bench mob.

PG - Fox (34 min) / FA PG (14 min)
SG - Bey (20 min) / DiVincenzo (28 min)
SF - Barnes (16 min) / Bey (10 min) / Holiday or Davis (22 min)
PF - Grant (32 min) / Barnes (16 min)
C - Sabonis (34 min) / Len or FA C (14 min)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Barnes = 32 min
Grant = 32 min
Bey = 30 min
DiVincenzo = 28 min
Hoilday or Davis = 22 min
FA PG = 14 min
Len or FA C = 14 min
 
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#68
I hardly consider Holmes to be a "premium asset." He's likely a late 1st at best (and that is assuming his legal issues turn out to be nothing).

Also, you acknowledged in the next proposal that Wood is on a 1 year deal as well but that he's probably worth something pretty close to #7 on his own but that logic is not carrying over to Grant here. Wood is a couple years younger, but I'd say Grant plays a more important, harder position to fill (SF/PF). For what it's worth, I don't believe either Grant or Wood are worth #7. I think they're likely to fetch a mid 1st at best (similar to Barnes).

I love Bey and wanted us to draft him before Haliburton slid all the way down to us. He's a full sized wing at 6'8" who is 216 lbs with a 6'11" wingspan. He's a great shooter who I see consistently shooting above 38% on high volume. His passing/playmaking is very promising (3.1 AST/36 min with a 2.43 AST:TO). And he's a good, smart defender. He reminds of Middleton and I see him having that type of potential. I think Bey is worth quite a bit by himself and that we'd be ecstatic if our 7th pick looked as good as him out of the gate.

I also really like the lineup this gives us:

PG - Fox / DiVincenzo
SG - Bey / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday
PF - Grant / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len

  • Scoring options would be solid. We're missing the ideal #1 scorer that you see on championship teams, but everyone in the starting lineup has the ability to average 16+ PPG. Allows us to attack the defense at every position and exploit the mismatch of the night.
  • Shooting wise over the past 3 seasons, Fox had a .306 3P% on 4.7 3PA/36min, Bey had a .361 3P% on 8.4 3PA/36min, Barnes had a .389 3P% on 4.4 3PA/36min, Grant had a .364 3P% on 5.8 3PA/36min, & Sabonis had a .305 3P% on 2.0 3PA/36 min. I wouldn't call that elite but it's more than adequate with 3 solid shooter at SG, SF, & PF with your PG & C able to provide a bit of spacing for each other.
  • Playmaking would be solid with Fox & Sabonis handling the bulk of the duties, but Bey, Barnes, & Grant are all capable of averaging a few assists per game with a positive AST:TO. Everyone should be able to shoot, dribble, drive, and find the open man.
  • Rebounding should be alright. Grant isn't a good rebounder for his position but Sabonis is a great rebounder and Bey would be an added boost by playing him at SG.
  • Defensively is likely our biggest question mark as Fox & Sabonis aren't particularly good on this side of the ball and will always make it challenging for us to be a good defensive team, but Grant was known for his defense in DEN when he wasn't asked to be a #1 option. He theoretically is a great defensive fit next to Sabonis with his athleticism, length, ability to guard PFs, and be a rim protector. Bey is also a good & smart perimeter defender with excellent size & length. Barnes is average defensively - not someone who is going to particularly hurt you on that side of the ball.
  • The bench would be pretty solid although I'd like us to sign a true PG in FA as I don't like the idea of DiVincenzo being our true backup PG. I like him better in that backup SG role. However, DiVincenzo, Davis, Holiday, and Lyles is a solid bench mob.

PG - Fox (34 min) / FA PG (14 min)
SG - Bey (20 min) / DiVincenzo (28 min)
SF - Barnes (16 min) / Bey (10 min) / Holiday or Davis (22 min)
PF - Grant (32 min) / Barnes (16 min)
C - Sabonis (34 min) / Len or FA C (14 min)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Barnes = 32 min
Grant = 32 min
Bey = 30 min
DiVincenzo = 28 min
Hoilday or Davis = 22 min
FA PG = 14 min
Len or FA C = 14 min
Never going to happen. But that would be a fun team! Grab Rubio as the backup point guard, and we could challenge for top 6 in the West.
 
#69
Perhaps a Dort & #12 for #7 deal makes some sense if Eason is there at #12...

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Dort / DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Eason / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len

It also leaves us the option of moving Fox for a better fitting piece around Sabonis (down the road if it's not working out) while having a plethora of great defenders around Sabonis (Mitchell, Dort, DiVincenzo, & Eason). Ideally, you'd want 4 great defenders around Sabonis (with a rim protector who can guard PFs at the 4) to help makeup for not having a good defensive C.
 
#73
You know, this Grant thing becomes very interesting now. You think Monte could nab Grant and threaten the Pistons to take their choice unless they give up their 5th pick with him?
 
#78
Does anyone think that OKC would do a pick swap
SAC: Gets #2
OKC: Get #4, #37, #48 and Richaun Holmes

We pick Holmgren or Smith (whoever is available).

In FA we resign Jones and DDV (i believe we have his Bird rights, but moving holmes and taking no salary back will free 10M as well) and using some to all of the MLE, go for Portis>Chris Boucher>Markief Morris>Jeff Green (the latter as insurance policies off the bench, especially if the rookie takes some time coming along.

Fox/Mitchell
DDV/TD/Holiday
Barnes/Smith Jr./Holiday/Harkless
PF-FA (listed above)/Smith Jr./Metu (can switch smith Jr to starter if FA is Morris or Green)
Sabonis/Jones/Len

I would also try to move Len and Harkless or TD for Cody Martin in a S/T and try to sign Hartenstein.
 
#81
Does anyone think that OKC would do a pick swap
SAC: Gets #2
OKC: Get #4, #37, #48 and Richaun Holmes

We pick Holmgren or Smith (whoever is available).

In FA we resign Jones and DDV (i believe we have his Bird rights, but moving holmes and taking no salary back will free 10M as well) and using some to all of the MLE, go for Portis>Chris Boucher>Markief Morris>Jeff Green (the latter as insurance policies off the bench, especially if the rookie takes some time coming along.

Fox/Mitchell
DDV/TD/Holiday
Barnes/Smith Jr./Holiday/Harkless
PF-FA (listed above)/Smith Jr./Metu (can switch smith Jr to starter if FA is Morris or Green)
Sabonis/Jones/Len

I would also try to move Len and Harkless or TD for Cody Martin in a S/T and try to sign Hartenstein.
I don't see that as nearly enough incentive for them to trade back two spots (I have Holmes value as a pick in the #25 range).

And as Capt mentioned, they're likely in the business of consolidating with all of their picks and assets. They're likely more interested in using #12 + ??? to trade up.
 
#82
If you're Monte and your first two lottery picks were (1) Haliburton, who was in the mix for RoY then netted Sabonis in a trade just a year and a half into his career and (2) Mitchell, who finished out the season looking like a future star while delivering consistently excellent on-ball defense on a team that needs stand out defenders desperately...

Do you really want to trade this pick? He's 2 for 2 so far in finding instant contributors who have outpaced the value of their draft slots. For all the wailing last July about PG logjams and wasting picks on undersized backup players, he managed to sort that out in less than a season. Eventually the team he's put together is going to have to start winning to justify further investment in him as a GM but if he continues to draft well he's going to keep his job. I think you could argue that the only thing standing between this team and the playoffs for the past 12-15 years has been an inability to identify NBA talent in the draft.
Not sure where you get Mitchell as a future all star. Dude had poor advanced numbers and wasn’t all rookie first or second team.
 
#83
I don't see that as nearly enough incentive for them to trade back two spots (I have Holmes value as a pick in the #25 range).

And as Capt mentioned, they're likely in the business of consolidating with all of their picks and assets. They're likely more interested in using #12 + ??? to trade up.
If you do a trade with OKC its

4 and next years pick. Top 3 protected

For 2….

And you do it only if Smith is at 2.
 
#84
Not sure where you get Mitchell as a future all star. Dude had poor advanced numbers and wasn’t all rookie first or second team.
I'm all in on Mitchell. Hes a defensive ace who would only shine brighter on that end with more help. We NEED to add defense first guys if we are ever going to pull ourselves out of the gutter.
 
#85
I'm all in on Mitchell. Hes a defensive ace who would only shine brighter on that end with more help. We NEED to add defense first guys if we are ever going to pull ourselves out of the gutter.
I don’t completely disagree as I would trade up for Smith but Mitchell is unlikely to be an all-star.
 
#86
I don’t completely disagree as I would trade up for Smith but Mitchell is unlikely to be an all-star.
Maybe not but it doesnt really matter that much especially since fans started voting. That's how we get all-star Steve Francis over Mike Bibby but its indisputable who was the superior player.
 
#87
Not sure where you get Mitchell as a future all star. Dude had poor advanced numbers and wasn’t all rookie first or second team.
I said future star. All-Star spots are generally more about scoring numbers and team success. Davion might not ever get an All Star nod unless Fox gets moved and he slides into the starting PG spot, but being in the mix for DPOY in a few years while contributing solid scoring and assist numbers as a stud sixth man would make him a star to me. He's got the tools to be an efficient scoring threat, he just didn't adjust to the speed of the NBA game until after the All Star break.

Advanced stats projections can show you some things but a lot of what happened in the first half of the season is irrelevant to me considering we had Luke as our coach and we were trying to make the Fox and Haliburton backcourt work -- making Davion a distant third in terms of on-the-ball minutes. So many of the advanced stats are skewed in favor of bigs (who get tons of assisted looks under the basket) and primary ballhandlers and very few of them account for individual defensive excellence (especially in the context of a poor defensive team).
 
#88
I'm all in on Mitchell. Hes a defensive ace who would only shine brighter on that end with more help. We NEED to add defense first guys if we are ever going to pull ourselves out of the gutter.
They do have some decent defenders, Harkless, Davion, Holiday, Holmes, etc. This goes beyond ability. They have to be careful with Mitchell though. Him being what he is physically comes with advantages and disadvantages. Bigger guards are going to shoot right over the top of him if they try and use him on the other teams best scorer in a traditional defense. We saw Booker do it with ease. Mitchell will have to play a little like Muggsy Bogues did, get inside and attack their every move. As a 6th man he can afford to to that.
 
#89
They do have some decent defenders, Harkless, Davion, Holiday, Holmes, etc. This goes beyond ability. They have to be careful with Mitchell though. Him being what he is physically comes with advantages and disadvantages. Bigger guards are going to shoot right over the top of him if they try and use him on the other teams best scorer in a traditional defense. We saw Booker do it with ease. Mitchell will have to play a little like Muggsy Bogues did, get inside and attack their every move. As a 6th man he can afford to to that.
I'd like to see him work for steals a bit more than just merely trying to keep his chest in front of his man. Especially when it comes to players like Booker who can shoot over him. He has really good hands but he didn't use them much after SL.
 
#90
I'd like to see him work for steals a bit more than just merely trying to keep his chest in front of his man. Especially when it comes to players like Booker who can shoot over him. He has really good hands but he didn't use them much after SL.
Yeah, there were moments where he just started to be a pest and it worked well. I think Fox needs to do some of the same things and getting some more offensive talent around him should do wonders and allow him more leeway to attack ball handlers.