Trading the pick.

Obviously depends on where you land in the draft lottery. I like the idea of targeting a guy like OG with Holmes and a pick. Raptors have said to be interested in Holmes in the past and you’d think they might be interested in resetting their timeline around Scottie Barnes and another top 10 pick could help with that
 
I think Monte would love to trade it but there aren’t a lot of available players that fit imo. Grant isn’t signed long term, Wood wants to be the man but isn’t capable imo, who else? The only guy that makes sense is John Collins. He is already a good player who has a chance to be a lot more. I would probably trade the pick for him if it was an option. If Barnes needs to be included in the deal, it gets tricky as we would then have another hole to fill.

Fox
?
Barnes
Collins
Sabonis

Would need to find a long term piece at the 2 and probably a better defending 3 to replace Barnes if we built around a Fox, Collins, Sabonis core.
 
Yeah, unless Collins is on the table, I'm not a huge fan of trading the pick this year. I think the Kings have one more year where they can somewhat slow-play things before having to go all-in the year Sabonis is heading for UFA. Give ourselves one more chance to hit on a young player and then really use draft picks after to speed up the timeline.

Grant and Wood both only have 1 more season on their deal before heading to UFA. I'd rather take the upside swing on a young player than pay for a 1 year rental.
 
I would trade it for Bradley Beal. It's definitely a risk with his injury history, but he's an all-star SG who could propel this team into the playoffs.

In trading for him, it would either be a 1 year try out, or a 5-year max deal.
 
If we win the lotto I think Smith is the perfect fit for us. I have reservations if Smith isn't available. I have a medical theory about one of the top picks I'd rather not share because I hope I am wrong (largely based on some more recent headshots).

If it's 5-8 and we can swing a deal for a PJ Washington like player for Holmes I really think we should keep the pick to get a 2/3 swingman who can develop into the starter in one of those roles.

Otherwise I'm ok packaging the pick for a perfect match to pair with Sabonis if a deal is out there.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
If we win the lotto I think Smith is the perfect fit for us. I have reservations if Smith isn't available. I have a medical theory about one of the top picks I'd rather not share because I hope I am wrong (largely based on some more recent headshots).
Click to expand...

Now I have to know this lol
 
kb02 said:
Tyrese Haliburton.
Click to expand...
The Pacers forum is that way -->

Seriously though, I love Hali and I think his jersey would one day hang from the rafters in Indiana. A Sabonis-Hali pairing would have been godly but we're not getting an All Star (and keeping our picks) without trading a cost controlled young talent that Indiana needed. Sabonis has been a joy to watch and his versatility has increased the ceiling and flexibility of the Kings roster.

In any case, the reality is that the Kings are the #1 enemy for Hali right now & he's not coming back. Kings fans better get used to it.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
19 and 11 and 44% 3 point shooting since the trade :(

I'm very impressed with Sabonis, but Haliburton has such unreal potential.
Click to expand...

You posted that like he's suddenly playing amazing after being traded but those are essentially the same stats he was putting up on the Kings while Fox was out and we were still getting absolutely destroyed by every team that wasn't actively trying to lose (OKC) or the Nets with James Harden purposely sucking to get traded.
 
The_Jamal said:
Yeah, unless Collins is on the table, I'm not a huge fan of trading the pick this year. I think the Kings have one more year where they can somewhat slow-play things before having to go all-in the year Sabonis is heading for UFA. Give ourselves one more chance to hit on a young player and then really use draft picks after to speed up the timeline.

Grant and Wood both only have 1 more season on their deal before heading to UFA. I'd rather take the upside swing on a young player than pay for a 1 year rental.
Click to expand...
I'm actually surprised by Sabonis' defensive impact numbers this season:

LA-DRAPM = +0.56 (79th in league)
DLEBRON = +0.74 (91st in league)
DRPM = +3.80 (29th in league)
DRAPTOR = +1.90 (42nd in league)

Even his 3 year averages of these numbers aren't bad:

LA-DRAPM = +0.60
DLEBRON = +1.12
DRPM = +2.88
DRAPTOR = +0.80

That doesn't scream liability and makes me second guess this team's defensive potential with Sabonis at C. He does move his feet decently well for a guy with his size & strength, has held up well against Jokic defensively, and is terrific at ending possessions with a defensive rebound. Makes me more open to the idea of bringing Collins aboard.

The one thing about Collins that I like is that he seems to be improving each year which is a good type to bet on. His defense has improved, his shooting has improved, and now his passing has improved this year.

If we were to trade for Collins, we almost have to include Holmes for salary purposes. ATL won't be interested in Holmes with Capela and Okongwu already there so it would have to be something like:

Kings Gets: John Collins & Team X Asset/Pick
Kings Gives: Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & 2022 SAC 1st

ATL Gets: Team X Filler & 2022 SAC 1st
ATL Gives: John Collins

Team X Gets: Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, & Alex Len
Team X Gives: Team X Filler & Team X Asset/Pick


Having said that, I'd rather us...
  • Draft someone like AJ Griffin or Keegan Murray with our pick
  • Trade Holmes for Powell & 2022 DAL 1st (currently tied for 20th)
  • Draft someone like EJ Liddell or Kendall Brown with the DAL pick
  • Resign DiVincenzo to a long term bargain deal
...and rollout a 2022-23 roster of:

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Holiday / Divincenzo
SF - Griffin / Davis / Harkless
PF - Barnes / Liddell / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len

Then next offseason rolls around and we would have around $40 mil in cap space with the following players under contract: Sabonis, Fox, DiVincenzo, Mitchell, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 DAL 1st, & 2023 SAC 1st. If we strike out on a big name in free agency, we could still resign Barnes with our cap space. If the concern is Sabonis leaving, you'd have Mitchell, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 DAL 1st, 2023 SAC 1st, 2024 SAC 1st, 2026 SAC 1st, 2028 SAC 1st, & 2030 SAC 1st as rookie contracts/picks that could be used to bring in immediate help.

But I agree. It would be a bummer to not try and land someone in free agency before looking to move our young assets/picks. You could potentially sign both Jerami Grant and Barnes with that cap space without giving up any assets.

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Divincenzo
SF - Barnes / Griffin
PF - Grant / Liddell
C - Sabonis
 
twslam07 said:
I'm actually surprised by Sabonis' defensive impact numbers this season:

LA-DRAPM = +0.56 (79th in league)
DLEBRON = +0.74 (91st in league)
DRPM = +3.80 (29th in league)
DRAPTOR = +1.90 (42nd in league)

Even his 3 year averages of these numbers aren't bad:

LA-DRAPM = +0.60
DLEBRON = +1.12
DRPM = +2.88
DRAPTOR = +0.80

That doesn't scream liability and makes me second guess this team's defensive potential with Sabonis at C. He does move his feet decently well for a guy with his size & strength, has held up well against Jokic defensively, and is terrific at ending possessions with a defensive rebound. Makes me more open to the idea of bringing Collins aboard.

The one thing about Collins that I like is that he seems to be improving each year which is a good type to bet on. His defense has improved, his shooting has improved, and now his passing has improved this year.

If we were to trade for Collins, we almost have to include Holmes for salary purposes. ATL won't be interested in Holmes with Capela and Okongwu already there so it would have to be something like:

Kings Gets: John Collins & Team X Asset/Pick
Kings Gives: Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & 2022 SAC 1st

ATL Gets: Team X Filler & 2022 SAC 1st
ATL Gives: John Collins

Team X Gets: Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, & Alex Len
Team X Gives: Team X Filler & Team X Asset/Pick


Having said that, I'd rather us...
  • Draft someone like AJ Griffin or Keegan Murray with our pick
  • Trade Holmes for Powell & 2022 DAL 1st (currently tied for 20th)
  • Draft someone like EJ Liddell or Kendall Brown with the DAL pick
  • Resign DiVincenzo to a long term bargain deal
...and rollout a 2022-23 roster of:

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Holiday / Divincenzo
SF - Griffin / Davis / Harkless
PF - Barnes / Liddell / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len

Then next offseason rolls around and we would have around $40 mil in cap space with the following players under contract: Sabonis, Fox, DiVincenzo, Mitchell, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 DAL 1st, & 2023 SAC 1st. If we strike out on a big name in free agency, we could still resign Barnes with our cap space. If the concern is Sabonis leaving, you'd have Mitchell, 2022 SAC 1st, 2022 DAL 1st, 2023 SAC 1st, 2024 SAC 1st, 2026 SAC 1st, 2028 SAC 1st, & 2030 SAC 1st as rookie contracts/picks that could be used to bring in immediate help.

But I agree. It would be a bummer to not try and land someone in free agency before looking to move our young assets/picks. You could potentially sign both Jerami Grant and Barnes with that cap space without giving up any assets.

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Divincenzo
SF - Barnes / Griffin
PF - Grant / Liddell
C - Sabonis
Click to expand...

I like it but I don't think Holmes has that kind of value anymore. He's been an absolute shell of his former self after the eye injury. I'd hold on to him and hope he regains his value by next year because I don't even see Dallas traiding Powell straight up for him at the moment.
 
I like Hali as much as the next person but damn, people got him as one of the future elite players in the league and Jersey hanging in the rafters when his career is done.

As far as trading the pick, unless it’s a top 2 or 3……I really like Jabari Smith, I’ll trade it if it means we get back an all-star level guy like we got in Sabonis…….at a position of need without trading the core pieces which there may only be 2 guys in Fox and Sabonis. We can be like Chicago and take a jump forward but need the big 3rd piece and sign a free agent or 2 such as Caruso who has provided impactful minutes when healthy.
 
Right now, Hali has more value than any of the top 3 projected picks in this draft. 21 years old, 6'5, averaging 17 points, 11 assists, 2 steals, and shooting 40% from three on decent 3 point volume while having crazy low usage numbers. That's proven, elite level, NBA production. PERIOD.
 
dude12 said:
I like Hali as much as the next person but damn, people got him as one of the future elite players in the league and Jersey hanging in the rafters when his career is done.
Click to expand...
What's stopping Hali from becoming the best point guard in Pacers history?

Elite playmaker (Top 10).
Elite three point shooter (Top 10).
Good off ball defender.
Clutch as hell.
High BBIQ that enables him to elevate others and be the perfect plug-and-play guy for any championship contender.
Hard worker that shows constant improvement.

He has certain weaknesses (slow release, not strong enough to initiate contact and finish in traffic) that might limit him from being a #1 option but I can picture him being an excellent #2 option. Even Reggie Miller had limitations.

He turns 22 tomorrow and he is averaging 19.8 pts / 10.7 ast / 4.3 rbs / 2.0 stl on 52.5% FG / 47.5% 3P / 80.0% FT with the Pacers. He is already elite in some aspects & improving!

An unselfish talented guy that plays smart and works hard is more likely to maximize his talent and elevate his team.

As for the draft, every year we see teams clamoring to get an elite playmaker and Hali is already proven in that category.
 
upinsmoke said:
Sooo ugh in an attempt to get back on topic who can we trade the pick for?
Click to expand...
If the idea is that our pick is the only real value going out, I don't think there are many fits. I can't see these teams trading their players (for our pick or in general):

  • Jaylen Brown (team is on fire. Tatum/Brown is a great duo to build around)
  • Brandon Ingram (just traded for McCollum. Don't see them trading win now talent for a 1st)
  • Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Worth a lot more than our pick and would they really want to reset again?)
  • Damian Lillard (Worth a lot more than our pick and not the right timeline for our core)
  • Pascal Siakam (Raptors are competitive right now. Don't see them making this type of trade)
  • Donovan Mitchell (Worth a lot more than our pick)

The following players may be available but aren't worth our 1st round pick:
  • Gordon Hayward (31 years old, huge salary, not worth the pick)
  • Jerami Grant (only has 1 more year on his contract)
  • Christian Wood (only has 1 more year on his contract)
  • Malcolm Brogdon (29 years, solid 3rd/4th player but not quite worth the pick)
  • Julius Randle (Overpaid and 4 years left on contract, not a good complement with Sabonis, not worth the pick)
  • Jonathan Isaac (big injury question marks. Huge risk giving that type of asset for him)
  • Tobias Harris (Massively overpaid, not a good complement with Sabonis, not worth our 1st)
  • Bradley Beal (only has 1 more year on his contract)
  • Kristaps Porzingis (Injury risk, not nearly worth our 1st round pick)

The following players that might be worth our pick (or close to the value of our pick):
  • John Collins (going to have high payroll soon. Might be open to a young win now player for a top pick)
  • DeAndre Hunter (going to have high payroll soon. Might be open to a young win now player for a top pick)
  • Jaren Jackson (was tempted to put him in the 1st section, but they do have some cap decisions to make in the next few years with Morant, Brooks, Adams, Clarke, Bane, etc. needing new contracts over the next couple of years. Maybe a Barnes + #6 package is attractive enough but doubt it).
 
ATL Gets: Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless, Alex Len, & 2022 SAC 1st (currently #6)
ATL Gives: John Collins

PG - Young
SG - Bogdanovic / Huerter
SF - Hunter / Holiday
PF - Gallinari / Johnson / Harkless
C - Capela / Okongwu / Len
Picks - #6 / #13 / #43

DAL Gets: Richaun Holmes & Trey Lyles
DAL Gives: Dwight Powell & 2022 DAL 1st (currently #21)

PG - Brunson / Dinwiddie / Ntilikina / Burke
SG - Hardaway / Green / Brown
SF - Doncic / Bullock
PF - Finney-Smith / Bertans / Lyles / Chriss
C - Holmes / Kleber / Marjanovic
Picks -

IND Gets: Dwight Powell, Davion Mitchell, Terence Davis, & Chimezie Metu
IND Gives: Malcolm Brogdon

PG - Mitchell / McConnell / Sykes
SG - Haliburton / Davis
SF - Duarte / Hield / Brissett
PF - Jackson / Metu
C - Turner / Powell / Bitadze
Picks - #5 / #23 / #33 / #60

SAC Gets: John Collins, Malcolm Brogdon, & 2022 DAL 1st (currently #21)
SAC Gives: Richaun Holmes, Justin Holiday, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Terence Davis, Alex Len, Trey Lyles, Chimezie Metu, & 2022 SAC 1st (currently #6)

PG - Fox
SG - Brogdon / DiVincenzo
SF - Barnes
PF - Collins
C - Sabonis
Picks - #22 / #36 / #56




  • Spacing would be solid for Fox & Sabonis with Brogdon, Barnes, & Collins
  • Passing/playmaking would be solid with Fox, Brogdon, & Sabonis all capable of averaging 5+ assists. Even Barnes & Collins have positive AST:TO (1.6 & 1.7)
  • Scoring would be great as all 5 starters are able to go get a bucket and get to the free throw line at a good rate
  • Free throw shooting would be solid (Sabonis is the worst at 73% and Brogdon is the best at 87%)
  • Rebounding would be great since all 5 starters are solid rebounders for their position.
  • BBall IQ would be solid with this group

Defensively is the glaring weakness with this group. I don't consider Fox, Barnes, Collins, or Sabonis particularly good defenders but I also don't consider any of them liabilities. Since there are many scoring options helping share the load, perhaps more of these guys are willing to lock in defensively.
 
Last edited:
the weird thing about Atlanta is its not clear what they want. Their rebuild got expedited last season but now it appears they have been knocked down a few rungs. Do they want picks at this point or do they want to package Collins and picks for a star type? Who is really available for a package like that? Okongwu needs to be starting imo. He is a difference maker defensively.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
19 and 11 and 44% 3 point shooting since the trade :(

I'm very impressed with Sabonis, but Haliburton has such unreal potential.
Click to expand...

yeah and losing games while at it. The one game where he didn’t get to handle the rock as much was when Brogdan played and he ended up having a bad game. He’s a ball dominant guard just like Fox just different style. The only reason why Indy took Ty is because of contracts. If the contracts were similar they would have taken Fox. Fox is the better player with a higher ceiling. Ty is elite at basically nothing except Bball IQ and then a good 3 pt shooter.
 
upinsmoke said:
What could we get for Sabonis & the pick?
Click to expand...
Together? Probably not as much coming back as leaving. You're talking about moving an All-Star player, and the pick will be a starter/high usage sort of player. That would be a tear down/rebuild sort of move. I wouldn't do that unless Sacramento is looking to start over and pick up a lot of draft picks.
 
upinsmoke said:
What could we get for Sabonis & the pick?
Click to expand...
The excitement of watching our GM get canned and then counting down until we can fire the coach he finally got to pick. And maybe a side helping of "move the Kings to Vegas/Seattle" tweets from a-holes that somehow think the fans make these dumbheaded moves.
 
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