Trade Nocioni
- Thread starter Nighthawk1
- Start date
IMO, we don't have to trade him yet. At least not at this point, because we haven't cemented that character of toughness we need. Take away one of the toughest guys we have and we take the risk of this team getting over-powered by the softness of our softies. That is just scary - the Kings team reverting back to its old self of sissiness.
Westphal just have to discipline Nocioni for shooting too much. He needs to remind Nocioni of his role in this team.
Westphal just have to discipline Nocioni for shooting too much. He needs to remind Nocioni of his role in this team.
I actually believe that Noc can play better than he is playing right now. Some thing is not going right for him. He was playing good in the beginning of the season. I thinkg if he get his confidence back than he will be Noc we expect him to be.
At least wait till Martin and Garcia come back and see how things work out.
At least wait till Martin and Garcia come back and see how things work out.
I see Nocioni's problem as OVER-CONFIDENCE and not lacking of it. He sometimes forget he is not the number one option in offense and he keeps on chucking shot after shot even when they are not falling in. I think he is spending too much of his energy on offense, rather than on defense where the team needs him more.
Kings G Andres Nocioni received a nice ovation when introduced before the game. Acquired from Chicago last February, Nocioni was one of the Bulls’ most popular players of the post-Michael Jordan years. “I’m fine with Sacramento,” he said, “but I miss Chicago a lot.”
I'm not saying everything about him screams, "I hate Sacramento", but I don't want a player who is "fine" to be here, I want him to want to be here.
I didn't take his comments to heart last year when he said the team was lacking, because it was. However, this year is much different, and if you notice, most people say he is the quiet one on the team. While all the other players are gelling nicely together, he is still being a lone wolf, taking 4-5 threes a game, while making few to none of them.
IDK, he's scrappy, but if he's not willing to help the identity of the team, or at least play positively, then he's not worth keeping, especially at a contract that he has now. Trade him.
I'm not saying everything about him screams, "I hate Sacramento", but I don't want a player who is "fine" to be here, I want him to want to be here.
I didn't take his comments to heart last year when he said the team was lacking, because it was. However, this year is much different, and if you notice, most people say he is the quiet one on the team. While all the other players are gelling nicely together, he is still being a lone wolf, taking 4-5 threes a game, while making few to none of them.
IDK, he's scrappy, but if he's not willing to help the identity of the team, or at least play positively, then he's not worth keeping, especially at a contract that he has now. Trade him.
With the renewed effort of Donte on Defense or the all-around scrappy play and great shooting by Casspi, both of the young guys have been outplaying Nocioni over the last week or two.
I would love to trade Nocioni for expirings to give us the opportunity to bring in a high-tier player in the off-season. Or if he could be packaged to bring in a quality big man or 1st round picks I'd be estatic.
Regardless, with the emergence of both Casspi and Greene as quality players, it's clear that he doesn't have a future with the team, so I hope that Geoff is able to put something together which can help with the future of this team.
One of my suggestions was to package both Nocioni and Beno together and send them to the Cavs for Ilgaskus (expiring). With the way that Beno has been playing, I'm almost to the point where I might consider keeping him around, or perhaps trading him for someone like Gortat (mentioned in another thread). Regardless of what we do with Beno, I think that Nocioni provides far more value to the team as a trading asset than a contributor on the floor.
I would love to trade Nocioni for expirings to give us the opportunity to bring in a high-tier player in the off-season. Or if he could be packaged to bring in a quality big man or 1st round picks I'd be estatic.
Regardless, with the emergence of both Casspi and Greene as quality players, it's clear that he doesn't have a future with the team, so I hope that Geoff is able to put something together which can help with the future of this team.
One of my suggestions was to package both Nocioni and Beno together and send them to the Cavs for Ilgaskus (expiring). With the way that Beno has been playing, I'm almost to the point where I might consider keeping him around, or perhaps trading him for someone like Gortat (mentioned in another thread). Regardless of what we do with Beno, I think that Nocioni provides far more value to the team as a trading asset than a contributor on the floor.
Have you ever been to Chicago?? Id say the same thing. Chcago is one of the most beautiful cities I have ever been in. To go from a huge city like that to Sacramento had to suck. I doubt it has to do with basketball, he is just stating the obvious.
Chicago has everything, Sac has.....????????........??????? Im still thinking.
Chicago has everything, Sac has.....????????........??????? Im still thinking.
I'm not saying everything about him screams, "I hate Sacramento", but I don't want a player who is "fine" to be here, I want him to want to be here.
Lets say Tyreke said the EXACT same thing, would his comments even bother you? Would you be saying trade Tyreke, I want a player that wants to be here??? heck no you wouldnt.
Reminds me of something Jimmy Johnson said years ago about Emmitt Smith.
He said if a special teams player fell asleep at a meeting, hed cut him. If Emmitt fell asleep at a meeting he would stop the meeting and proclaim, "Nap time everyone!"
Lets say Tyreke said the EXACT same thing, would his comments even bother you? Would you be saying trade Tyreke, I want a player that wants to be here??? heck no you wouldnt.
Reminds me of something Jimmy Johnson said years ago about Emmitt Smith.
He said if a special teams player fell asleep at a meeting, hed cut him. If Emmitt fell asleep at a meeting he would stop the meeting and proclaim, "Nap time everyone!"
I'm orginaly from St. Louis. Just 300 short miles south of Chicago. My sister lived in Chicago for years. I'm pretty familar with Chi town. To me, Chicago is like New York. Its a fun place to visit. Its sort of like Disneyland for adults. But I wouldn't want to live there. One weekend many moon's ago in Sacramento. I went skiing on a saturday, then came home and played golf on sunday. Try that in Chicago. Try sitting on a park bench down by the loop in December in Chicago. Your frozen body will be in the morgue the next day.
Nocioni is from a small mountain town. He's a local hero there. He doesn't seem like the type to fall in love with a city like Chicago. But thats irrelevant. He's not fitting in with the team right now. He has the same problem he's always had. He can't guard the good quick SF's of the league. Last nignts game is an example of that. Same thing happened when he tried to guard Richard Jefferson. And, he's not big enough to guard the big PF's of the league.
Now you can tolerate that to a certain extent because of his hustle. But when he starts throwing up brick after brick to go along with his getting killed on defense, well, enough is enough. Until such time as he is traded, he needs to come off the bench. He's not starter material and never has been. He also needs to stop reading his own press clippings. He's not that good..
Nocioni is from a small mountain town. He's a local hero there. He doesn't seem like the type to fall in love with a city like Chicago. But thats irrelevant. He's not fitting in with the team right now. He has the same problem he's always had. He can't guard the good quick SF's of the league. Last nignts game is an example of that. Same thing happened when he tried to guard Richard Jefferson. And, he's not big enough to guard the big PF's of the league.
Now you can tolerate that to a certain extent because of his hustle. But when he starts throwing up brick after brick to go along with his getting killed on defense, well, enough is enough. Until such time as he is traded, he needs to come off the bench. He's not starter material and never has been. He also needs to stop reading his own press clippings. He's not that good..
Hey I agree with you, we live in one of the best places in the world. I can have my Jet Skis in the lake within 20 minutes, I can be at the ski resort on 80 minutes, and be in SF within 90 minutes, but for a pro athlete, Chicago is likely preferred.
And nobody said Noc should be starting, but at the start of the year he should have been. we are just at a point where many of us feel Caspi is in the long term plans and has played well enough on this team to deserve starting.
I do not like the venom directed his way though, he has been good for this team IMO.
And nobody said Noc should be starting, but at the start of the year he should have been. we are just at a point where many of us feel Caspi is in the long term plans and has played well enough on this team to deserve starting.
I do not like the venom directed his way though, he has been good for this team IMO.
SOMEBODY has to go, and pretty soon here. When Kevin gets back (unless he's the one to go) various young contributing players are going to see their miunutes all but disappear (Green, Sergio, Casspi). Or an old vet with a big contract is going to see their minutes disappear (Kevin, Beno, Noc). Something is going to give. And it will only get worse when Cisco comes back. And so somebody needs to go. Crushing your very promising kids is just stupid, as it has always been. Trashig your vet with the contract's trade value by benching him is nearly as bad. The ONLY solution is to move somebody here. And Geoff has to see that. I suspect something is coming.
I'm not sure having Nocioni come off the bench hurts his trade value. He's been a bench player most of his career, and there's no shame in that. What hurts Noc is the wrong matchup, and thats more easily remedied by coming off the bench. If and when he's traded I doubt he'll going to a team as a starter.
But your right, he is the most likely one to go since I don't see him in the future of the Kings. Could be the team is just waiting, to make sure Martin is completely healthy before doing anything. But the sooner the better..
But your right, he is the most likely one to go since I don't see him in the future of the Kings. Could be the team is just waiting, to make sure Martin is completely healthy before doing anything. But the sooner the better..
There is a difference between coming off the bench and BEING benched. Once Martin hits the fold, and then Cisco, all kinds of people are going to be pinned to the pine.
Noc coming off the bench has always gotten similar minutes to what he is getting now -- spot starter/6th man type minutes. 22-28 a game. You can do that with him now. Once the skinny boys get back there are just no minutes for that kind of thing. We will have seven worthy bodies for about 108 minutes of action (48 SG 48 SF 12 PG (and if anyone advocates takng even 1 minute away from Reke to make room for the weenies I will slap them). You want to cheat with a little smallball action we can even throw in 12 minutes there and say 7 worthy bodies for 120 minutes of action. Doesn't matter. Too many bodies, not enough minutes.
Here is the real kicker -- if you give me Sergio, Donte and Casspi and put them around Reke they cost the team roughly $4-$5 million combined and I am not sure that there is THAT big a gap in performance this year from Kevin, Beno, Noc who cost you $24mil. People will argue about Kevin of course.
Noc coming off the bench has always gotten similar minutes to what he is getting now -- spot starter/6th man type minutes. 22-28 a game. You can do that with him now. Once the skinny boys get back there are just no minutes for that kind of thing. We will have seven worthy bodies for about 108 minutes of action (48 SG 48 SF 12 PG (and if anyone advocates takng even 1 minute away from Reke to make room for the weenies I will slap them). You want to cheat with a little smallball action we can even throw in 12 minutes there and say 7 worthy bodies for 120 minutes of action. Doesn't matter. Too many bodies, not enough minutes.
Here is the real kicker -- if you give me Sergio, Donte and Casspi and put them around Reke they cost the team roughly $4-$5 million combined and I am not sure that there is THAT big a gap in performance this year from Kevin, Beno, Noc who cost you $24mil. People will argue about Kevin of course.
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Beno should be kept though. He is coming back to his old self and is proving he can play again. 5 million a year is not too bad for the type of basketball eh is playing. Nocioni should leave as he is taking minutes and not playing well. Spencer should go as well with Noc for a solid big man.
Basically this is my trade list:
Spencer
Nocioni
Kenny Thomas
Ime Udoka (if needed)
Basically this is my trade list:
Spencer
Nocioni
Kenny Thomas
Ime Udoka (if needed)
Let me start off by saying I like Nocioni.
That being said, his recent play is making it easier for the Kings to want
to trade him. It also makes it harder for them to trade him.
No hurry. There is plenty of time for Noc to redeem himself, thus
making him more tradable.
Is that a win win or a lose lose situation?
That being said, his recent play is making it easier for the Kings to want
to trade him. It also makes it harder for them to trade him.
No hurry. There is plenty of time for Noc to redeem himself, thus
making him more tradable.
Is that a win win or a lose lose situation?
Did somebody call for a Nocioni Trade?
Sacramento:
->Nocioni + May
<-Gadzuric + J. Alexander + Ike Diogu (Would be Waived) + New Orleans 2010 1st (Unprotected)
New Orleans:
->Posey + Songaila + Ike Diogu + New Orleans 2010 1st (Unprotected)
<-Nocioni + May
Milwaukee:
->Gadzuric + J. Alexander
<-Posey + Songaila
We trade Nocioni for a 5th string big man and a 1st. New Orleans saves 6 Million because of the Luxury Tax, and gets them almost under. Milwaukee trades two guys who are not playing for some outside shooting now that Redd is done.
Sacramento:
->Nocioni + May
<-Gadzuric + J. Alexander + Ike Diogu (Would be Waived) + New Orleans 2010 1st (Unprotected)
New Orleans:
->Posey + Songaila + Ike Diogu + New Orleans 2010 1st (Unprotected)
<-Nocioni + May
Milwaukee:
->Gadzuric + J. Alexander
<-Posey + Songaila
We trade Nocioni for a 5th string big man and a 1st. New Orleans saves 6 Million because of the Luxury Tax, and gets them almost under. Milwaukee trades two guys who are not playing for some outside shooting now that Redd is done.