Time to panic?

Time to panic?

  • Yes, trade everybody and start the rebuild again

    Votes: 5 9.6%
  • No, just growing pains

    Votes: 39 75.0%
  • Changing the coaching staff will fix many issues

    Votes: 8 15.4%

  • Total voters
    52

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#31
The high post offense is just a gigantic failure, we aren't the warriors, we don't have Vlade and C Webb or even young Z Bo and Marc Gasol + Conley, we have freaking Kofous/WCS/ZBO trying to run it. Notice how slow we play, we get the ball to someone at 2 feet under the 3 point line at 12-15 seconds on the shot clock consistently. There's not enough spacing for it either because most of our team has not shown they can shoot the three ball with any consistency
 
#32
The high post offense is just a gigantic failure, we aren't the warriors, we don't have Vlade and C Webb or even young Z Bo and Marc Gasol + Conley, we have freaking Kofous/WCS/ZBO trying to run it. Notice how slow we play, we get the ball to someone at 2 feet under the 3 point line at 12-15 seconds on the shot clock consistently. There's not enough spacing for it either because most of our team has not shown they can shoot the three ball with any consistency
Fox-Bogdan-JJ-Skal-wcs should be speed speed speed. When stop just pick and roll 99% of the time.
 
#34
The high post offense is just a gigantic failure, we aren't the warriors, we don't have Vlade and C Webb or even young Z Bo and Marc Gasol + Conley, we have freaking Kofous/WCS/ZBO trying to run it. Notice how slow we play, we get the ball to someone at 2 feet under the 3 point line at 12-15 seconds on the shot clock consistently. There's not enough spacing for it either because most of our team has not shown they can shoot the three ball with any consistency
Its painful and unentertaining to watch. Its funny when we needed to run the Joerger high post system during the early Rudy/Cuz years we did the complete opposite in trying to run a high octane super fast dribble drive 3 PT. system.

Now when we have drafted for SPEED and Shooting and could use a run n gun dribble drive offense we run the opposite.

LOL freakin KANGZ.

Fire Vlade and friends, Fire Joerger and start over with a more modern approach now that the Cuz era is over. Should have grabbed Dantoni when we had the chance espcially if we still chose to draft this way.
 
#35
I hate the idea of dumping another coach but Jeorger is losing me day by day. He does not come across as an innovative mind or someone who can actually design a system to a teams strengths. We basically run his same Memphis and 16 Kings sets (built for reading and reacting out of the high post for slower older rosters) with a young and fast roster. At least guys like Brett Brown and Brad Stevens designed systems around their losing teams to create some excitement while tanking.

My strategy as an armchair coach for this already lost season: Instruct ZBO, Hill Kofous, Willie to almost never shoot (putbacks,lobs only) just rebound, pass constantly SPRINT to set screens and recreens to set up the young guns while playing extremely physical defense (ZBO, Hill, Temple play no more than 15 mins a game so make them count on defense.) Oh and put Carter in a suit.

Fast break at every chance, give Jackson,Hield, Malachi, Fox even Skal an unlimited green light from 3. In fact tell them there minutes will be cut if they do not shoot. With so many shots going up Willie has a 10 rebound minimum or Papa gets all of his minutes the next game.

Anyone who passes up a decent look for 3 or a jumper or doesnt push the ball on a miss or turnover gets punished.

Half court offense is simple, high screen and roll with Willie/Skal/Papa rolling hard for lobs or popping out for jumpers if needed depending on the coverage. If the other team switches attack the matchup and break down the defense to finish or swing it out for a 3 (or a closeout attack) or get benched.

Pick and Roll ball handlers will be a commitee of Fox/Buddy/Malachi/Mason/JJ.

Shot attempt leaders should be: Fox,Buddy,Malachi,Skal in that order.

Who disagrees that this would not be fun to watch even while we lose? Lots of 3s and hoop attacks/dunks instead of watching Zbo late clock iso or Lmao watching KK and Willie set up the offense from the high post.

I do not buy the "these guys are not talented at all" excuse. These guys are very talented and work extremely hard!

If you watch the games you can see how outdated Joergers system is. It just does not fit this new style of player who is not built or tought to play this way. On top of not being fun to watch.

Set some rules but SIMPLIFY the system and let these young stalions run.

In this lost season FORCE the young guys to play free and shoot as much as they want.

So whose up for letting me be the coach? :D
Crazy thing is I think Keith smart can work better with this roster o_O
 
#36
Crazy thing is I think Keith smart can work better with this roster o_O
That might be a reach seeing as how he benched Steph Curry for Acie Law:rolleyes: but his philosophy definately would work much better, just need someone with a better vision on how to execute it. Even a young non senile version of George Karl would work better than the current staff sans the midget backcourts.
 
#37
Its painful and unentertaining to watch. Its funny when we needed to run the Joerger high post system during the early Rudy/Cuz years we did the complete opposite in trying to run a high octane super fast dribble drive 3 PT. system.

Now when we have drafted for SPEED and Shooting and could use a run n gun dribble drive offense we run the opposite.

LOL freakin KANGZ.

Fire Vlade and friends, Fire Joerger and start over with a more modern approach now that the Cuz era is over. Should have grabbed Dantoni when we had the chance espcially if we still chose to draft this way.
Firing joerger would be such a bad look for us. It is getting pretty clear that he is not suited for the modern NBA though.
 
#39
Forget the damned offense. They got destroyed by a bottom dweller not because of the offense - they got a TON of open shots. They lost because they soft and lazy on defense. No heart, no passion, just barely going through the motions. Stein is a joke and it has nothing whatsoever to do with how the coach is using him on offense. It doesn't matter whether he plays high post, low post or no post. He's lazy. He only really expends the calories in limited stints when he thinks he absolutely has to.

When failure is apparent, confidence wanes. Getting destroyed by a bottom dweller at the end of a road trip who plays a system that works is going to always be possible when your team has no consistency from the top on down. The Kings have a roster of mostly finesse players so running them out there like they are the '04 Pistons is unrealistic. It's NBA common sense, if a coach doesn't have the types of players that fit his system and he's unwilling to incorporate a different system to fit those players something is going to break, and when it breaks it looks like this. Every year it's the same thing in some form. The year before last you had Karl trying to run the system they should run now around Cuz who didn't fit it at all. It's almost laughable how balance seems to pass this franchise by like a ship in the night. The only different now is I think the overwhelming majority of people understand that it doesn't necessarily mean winning many games. When you are a rebuilding team you start with individual success then branch out from there. Even when we've seen individual success it's branches are snipped before they even have a chance to grow.

Joeger is probably being the nice guy here by trying to incorporate as many players into the rotation as possible. Well, this is what it looks like when you do that. Vlade could take some of his toys away, or Joerger can finally put his strongest lineup and see if it can work long term. We rarely see Buddy and Bogdan play together. Those are probably the two best options he has on the wings to produce points. Why not maximize what you have? Play to their strengths, and see if that works for a change. Before it's too late and the players tune him out all together.
 
Last edited:
#41
All this talk of franchise players. We TRADED our franchise for the foreseeable future when we sent cousins off. What did everyone expect ?

We are a project team with nice young pieces. This is going to take a few years people. Nab a high draft pick and add another high level piece and then 3 years from there...

Dont worry we'll have MLS soccer in Sac soon and another up and coming young team to root for

Maybe to see the team's focus turn the individual success of the young players? When you aren't a contender it's all you have and it can benefit teams for many reasons stated before such as trade value. They have individual awards like ROY for a reason. It gives those young players, who are more focused on getting better themselves rather than winning games or something beyond them at their current stage something to strive for. That's the process. Even the Brooklyn Nets understand that now. Geez.
 
#42
Maybe to see the team's focus turn the individual success of the young players? When you aren't a contender it's all you have and it can benefit teams for many reasons stated before such as trade value. They have individual awards like ROY for a reason. It gives those young players, who are more focused on getting better themselves rather than winning games or something beyond then at their current stage something to strive for. That's the process. Even the Brooklyn Nets understand that now. Geez.
we are undertaking that process. turning the keys over to the kids completely though is clearly not the way forward given their consistency. Give it time, in a season or so we might be in a position to do that
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#43
When failure is apparent, confidence wanes. Getting destroyed by a bottom dweller at the end of a road trip who plays a system that works is going to always be possible when your team has no consistency from the top on down. The Kings have a roster of mostly finesse players so running them out there like they are the '04 Pistons is unrealistic. It's NBA common sense, if a coach doesn't have the types of players that fit his system and he's unwilling to incorporate a different system to fit those players something is going to break, and when it breaks it looks like this. Every year it's the same thing in some form. The year before last you had Karl trying to run the system they should run now around Cuz who didn't fit it at all. It's almost laughable how balance seems to pass this franchise by like a ship in the night. The only different now is I think the overwhelming majority of people understand that it doesn't necessarily mean winning many games. When you are a rebuilding team you start with individual success then branch out from there. Even when we've seen individual success it's branches are snipped before they even have a chance to grow.

Joeger is probably being the nice guy here by trying to incorporate as many players into the rotation as possible. Well, this is what it looks like when you do that. Vlade could take some of his toys away, or Joerger can finally put his strongest lineup and see if it can work long term. We rarely see Buddy and Bogdan play together. Those are probably the two best options he has on the wings to produce points. Why not maximize what you have? Play to their strengths, and see if that works for a change. Before it's too late and the players tune him out all together.
Like I said before, it's time for Joerger to stop being so nice. And Divac as well.
 
#44
we are undertaking that process. turning the keys over to the kids completely though is clearly not the way forward given their consistency. Give it time, in a season or so we might be in a position to do that

No they aren't, his actions suggest he's avoiding it, or pushing it off on down the line. It may work in the end, right now it doesn't appear that way. My point is there comes a time when there is no time. Players give up in the NBA. Like I said, Joerger drew a line so now we can see if that time gets pushed back, or forward.
 
#45
Like I said before, it's time for Joerger to stop being so nice. And Divac as well.

Well if his quotes after last game are any indication it won't come anytime soon. He thinks if he can keep throwing as many things at the wall it will eventually stick. Hey, everything has a chance to work, but I wouldn't put my rep behind those percentages of success.
 
#46
Firing joerger would be such a bad look for us. It is getting pretty clear that he is not suited for the modern NBA though.
It would be an awful look but theres still only 32 GM and Coach jobs out there. Some up and coming assistant GM (With Experiance this time please) and Coach would jump at it.

Start by just applying a linear philosophy from the top down, take Viveks 3.0 and just run with that, I wouldnt mind a system like the Rockets who are basically what Vivek talked about running prior to him being quiet.
 
#47
I don't think Joerger being nice has much to do with the failures of the team.

It's not like there's a lineup or a few players or even a single player out there that's playing much better than anyone else. They're all hot garbage right now. It really doesn't matter who you plug in, no one stands out. It's not like Joerger is cutting the minutes of a good lineup short to get a bunch of other guys minutes so he doesn't make anyone mad. I don't think playing the starters 30+ minutes a night and the bench guys bench minutes would do much to improve the team.
 
#50
I like the second or third post referring to the fact that it makes Kings’ games nearly unwatchable. I flip them on here and there but for the most part it’s an obvious waste of time. Not really complaining because there is so much to do or watch these days, but I hope they accomplish the suck right and get a top 3 this draft.

I do hope at some point that the rookies get more than 25 minutes per game. Hopefully by February they are running 32-34.
 
#52
Well if his quotes after last game are any indication it won't come anytime soon. He thinks if he can keep throwing as many things at the wall it will eventually stick. Hey, everything has a chance to work, but I wouldn't put my rep behind those percentages of success.
Whose quotes after the game? I heard Joerger post-game say that the team needs to play tougher and that he has been trying to play 10 guys and he may have to change that.

I think Joerger has been clear from the beginning that he needed more time during preseason to work with the team and the players are inconsistent. That's kind of what it looks like. I would be more concerned if there weren't a few (admittedly limited) flashes of competency (eg, 70 point half, wins vs OKC, Phil, solid quarters against WA, etc.)
 
#53
No, it is not time to panic.

Vlade and Peja were in attendance on this road trip, they saw up close how it went. I get the feeling that Coach is doing what is asked of him at this time, and that the players are TRYING to do the same.

I don't believe that Joerger intends to play at such a slow pace when it is time for wins and trying to break our playoff drought. I believe he is trying to teach and the students are young and adjusting to more than meets the eye.

However one feels about us hitting the reset with the Boogie trade, or how they feel about hoping we get the best draft pick we can get this upcoming draft, the reality is that is where we find ourselves now. Period.

I hate a LOT of what I am seeing or not seeing thus far just as much as every other die hard fan. My point, if I have one, is that right now is too early to declare anything that has long lasting implications with any certainty. Way too early and we have a long way to go before we should start asking "Are we there yet?"

Just my 2 coppers
 
#54
institutionalized ineffectiveness. Im not stating we should fire Joerger or that Vlade isnt doing a good job (the cuz trade aside) however our way out of this left when we let Perry go to the Knicks.

He was clearly part of the succession plan to take over from Vlade and given his departure we have moved from being ready to thank Vlade and move on to basically embracing him (again no issue with this but just know we dont have it as an option as it stands).

We can not fire Vlade or Joerger. We are not in a position to and Vivek is invested in maintaining this course.

It is what it is. There have been significant decisions/milestones which have put us where we are. When George Karl came in i said the same things. That was a mistake but one we had to wear because there was no way we were firing him. Not saying we are there now but losing Perry was significant much the same as the decision to fire Malone and the decision to go with a name coach and hire Karl.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#56
Kings fans prematurely panic 15-20 games into the season for the past decade. Let's be realistic here and look at what the mission is in this season. Mission one is to play the youth more minutes and not have them ride pine as long as they have. Two, experiment and see where a player is comfortable and uncomfortable. Third, lose a lot of games and nab a top 3 pick, with some luck of course which I'm not holding my breath for. The Kings will end up drafting 4 or 5 knowing the luck of the draw. Lastly, leave it to Kings fans to start blaming a head coach time and time again continuing with this carousel. This is Joerger's second year and this time he doesn't have his big man which he surrounded his whole offense around. Joerger hasn't had to coach a team with 5 rookies and a whole bunch of second and third year players before so of course he will be favoring Hill, Temple, slow-bo & Koufos at this time. With that said, as the loses pile up sky high within the coming weeks, it will be more evident to just let the young ones fail by trial and error and give them a longer leash.
 
#57
No, it is not time to panic.

I don't believe that Joerger intends to play at such a slow pace when it is time for wins and trying to break our playoff drought. I believe he is trying to teach and the students are young and adjusting to more than meets the eye.
If you listen to Joerger's comments in interviews, he talks a lot about wanting Fox and others to push the pace. Obviously, we are not seeing that on the court, so is it players not being ready for it, coaching, or something else?
 
Last edited:
#58
If you listen to Joerger's comments in interviews, he talks a lot about wanting Fox and others to push the pace. Obviously, we are not seeing that on the court, so is it players not being ready for it, coaching, or something else.
Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that. Assuming Joerger intends to see this rebuild blossom in the long run, he has a lot to figure out with so many inexperienced players. Considering how often it has been said that AAU and the current system of young players entering the league often times leaves players ill prepared as far as even basic basketball principles, let alone the rigors of an NBA season off the court, Joerger has a lot on his plate.

If I were to take a guess, I'd imagine we will see some significant line up changes and a faster play style before seasons end. Likely by the All Star break. I could definitely be wrong of course.

For example, Fox is usually on the floor with Kosta rather than Willie, even though it would seem a no brainer for them to be paired for an uptempo style. I am sure there is a reason. Another example is Willie paired with Z-Bo where Skal would, again, seem better suited for a faster tempo.

Like I said in my other post, I think a lot has to do with things we can't see easily during a game. Both the starters and the 2nd unit is a mix of young and vets, each with a mix of players built to run or better suited for a half court offense. Like it or not, a lot of playoff basketball is slowed down, grind it out. No matter what might be best for individual players, they will need to understand the intricacies of both in the long run if we are to be successful. I am speaking of the youth specifically. If your trying to build for success a couple years from now, these lessons early in a players career will, hopefully, pay dividends in the long run when we are making a run in the post season.

I think the lineups will get rearranged and the play style adjusted in time. I think the biggest issue regardless of years of experience with this team is fight and urgency, specifically on defense. I would hope these issues are at the top of the list of talking points during practice in the short term.
 
#59
The high post offense is just a gigantic failure, we aren't the warriors, we don't have Vlade and C Webb or even young Z Bo and Marc Gasol + Conley, we have freaking Kofous/WCS/ZBO trying to run it. Notice how slow we play, we get the ball to someone at 2 feet under the 3 point line at 12-15 seconds on the shot clock consistently. There's not enough spacing for it either because most of our team has not shown they can shoot the three ball with any consistency
Guarantee you these guys can shoot with consistency under a different system. Look at the Grizzlies under a new system... They went from worst in the league to middle of the pack overnight.
 
#60
It would be an awful look but theres still only 32 GM and Coach jobs out there. Some up and coming assistant GM (With Experiance this time please) and Coach would jump at it.

Start by just applying a linear philosophy from the top down, take Viveks 3.0 and just run with that, I wouldnt mind a system like the Rockets who are basically what Vivek talked about running prior to him being quiet.
The Rockets system??? System's don't make good teams, good players make good teams. Most good players suck as rookies. Many suck for their first few years.

It seems like those calling for the head of Vlade and Joerger are expecting instant success. Surely you all did not expect a competitive team with the players on this squad this early in the year?

Have you forgotten how D'Antoni looked when he was Coaching the Lakers? He was ran out of LA on the rails. The Lakers went 67 wins and 87 losses with this wonderful system of D'Antoni's.

The Rockets system is James Harden and all those 3 and D players around him and one 7 footer with bounce.
 
Last edited: