Time For A Lineup Tweak?

[Bricklayer]

With IT definitely seeming to run down now, would you tweak the lineups again? If so what would you do?

There was not room for one option in the poll: PG=Jimmer, SG=Reke, SF=Salmons

Which would have been Fish With a Twist #2. But since Marcus Thornton would, appropriately I might add, probably choke out Smart if we ever tried to bench him for not one but TWO lesser players, figured it wasn't much of an option anyway.

 

[uolj]

I think it's time for the lineup many wanted in some form from nearly the beginning of the season.

Evans
Thornton
Greene
Thompson
Cousins

Basically, take Salmons out from the original lineup and insert a small forward who doesn't offend as much.

Thomas, Salmons, Hayes would work well on the second team. Fredette and Garcia could mix in at times, even if it meant making Greene a PF for a short time or even Evans an SF for a few minutes.

 

[upinsmoke]

Stay with IT until someone steps up or a trade goes down. Other than that there is nobody to run an offense and keep the ball moving. The off-season is the teams best chance to get a starting #1 guard. Augustin/Hinrich/D-will or drafting a PG should all be considered.

 

[gatoradeSD]

With IT definitely seeming to run down now, would you tweak the lineups again? If so what would you do?

There was not room for one option in the poll: PG=Jimmer, SG=Reke, SF=Salmons

Which would have been Fish With a Twist #2. But since Marcus Thornton would, appropriately a might add, choke out Smart if we ever tried to bench him for not 1 but TWO lesser players, figured it wasn't much of an option anyway.

this is what I wanted. Jimmer, Reke, Salmons

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I voted for Full Size 1 (IT, Reke, Donte) but could be swayed to Jimmer 2 (Jimmer, Reke, Donte). At any rate, it looks like I want Thornton and his scoring coming off of the bench, and I have to admit I'm kind of enjoying Salmons in a role where he's doing more ballhandling. So we start out with Tyreke and either Jimmer or IT as our ballhandlers, and when Smart does his full-swap hockey line change, we have Salmons and again either Jimmer or IT, with MT guarding the 2s but essentially playing a 3/3rd guard on offense (Salmons guarding the backup 3).

Of course, Donte has been playing a lot of PF in our smallball sets recently, but maybe we can fix that at the deadline...

 

[rainmaker]

There's two questions. What we would do, and then what possible solutions could be done given the positions Smart thinks some players should/shouldn't be played at. I'd guess many want Donte at the 3, but since Smart sees him strictly as a 4, what the hell's the point of saying you want him at the 3? Won't happen. Fat chance. So given whom Smart considers to be SF's,

Reke
MT
Cisco
JT
Cousins

Smart actually considers Cisco a SF, and given Salmons in now a backup point(never thought I'd type that), I think Cisco is the likely candidate to move into the SF position if moving Reke back to point, which I believe has to happen.

I like IT, but he's no NBA starter. Not even sure why that's be surprising. I know some annointed him the future PG of the Kings, but that's more fans irresponsibly getting too wrapped up in the hype machine and thinking a hot 5 game stretch makes a career. Fact is, his defense against starting PG's has been awful. He not creating for others, his ast rate is now below Reke's, and his shooting %'s have dropped ever since showing up on scouting reports.

And sure some have shown up as recently as this morning saying IT's lack of defense is being overblown, and we maybe shouldn't even look at his defensive struggles because we run 2-3 "prettier" fast breaks per game, and that somehow negates any other negatives over a 48 min game. Well, average PG's, not All Star's, but average PG's are penetrating and getting by him almost at will. We're talking about average PG's Reke can handle defensively and has proven he can handle defensively, now tearing our defense apart.

Sure some fans strictly look at who finishes the possession, as last night is was Josh Smith most of the time. Oddly, those fans fail to see where the initial breakdown is coming, and it's coming at the point of attack. Last night, Teague and Hinrich, not exactly house hold names, penetrated whenever they wanted, causing guys to consistently rotate, sometimes effectively, sometimes not, leading Smith or JJ with uncontested looks. As Spike pointed out, we're giving up 10 more points per game when IT starts. Our rebounding has also gone down.

Right now, our lack of defense in the backcourt, playing our 2nd best player out of position leading him to be benched for 4th quarters, our giving up our previous advantages on the glass which facilitates transition hoops(as you can't run without getting stops and rebs), is due in large part to putting IT in the starting 5.

Is it worth it? Giving up 10 more points per? Neutralizing our 2nd best player? Being at a defensive disadvantage at PG, SG and SF? Our backcourt pairing turning into blackholes while getting abused on the other end? No. Not imo.

Other option is moving Reke to sg, and MT to the bench, which in theory I might support. but not in reality with this current roster. Basically, Reke has to play guard, which means either IT or MT goes to the bench. Move MT to the bench while IT is going 2-7 with 0 ast against a guy like Teague, that doesn't end well.

 

[Section 101]

IT, Thornton, Donte.

 

[Bricklayer]

IT, Thornton, Donte.

You'll notice I did not include an option for stupidity.

 

[Section 101]

You'll notice I did not include an option for stupidity.

So when are your mod rights being removed for personal attacks?

 

[swisshh]

I don't want Salmons starting unless he's playing point-guard/forward. It's the only way he's been effective. To return him to his old role would be pointless.

I guess IT & Reke, with Cisco or Greene at SF depending on defensive matchups. You have to reduce the amount of blackholes and lack of defensive stability in the starters. Thornton has become a problem on D, so whatever change happes, I expect him to become the 6th man.

 

[cstorm]

:

You'll notice I did not include an option for stupidity.

 

[Bricklayer]

So when are your mod rights being removed for personal attacks?

About the same time we bench Tyreke Evans for Donte Greene.

 

[Section 101]

About the same time we bench Tyreke Evans for Donte Greene.

It's not benching him for Donte. It's benching him for MT. I think more than the starting line up needing a change, Evans needs a change. Bring him off the bench for a few games and see what happens. It's about mixing the right players together. Look at the Spurs, Manu is their best player and he comes off the bench. Terry is better than both guards in Dallas and comes off the bench.

 

[rainmaker]

It's not benching him for Donte. It's benching him for MT. I think more than the starting line up needing a change, Evans needs a change. Bring him off the bench for a few games and see what happens. It's about mixing the right players together. Look at the Spurs, Manu is their best player and he comes off the bench. Terry is better than both guards in Dallas and comes off the bench.

Only reason I partially agree, is that that way Reke would play in the 4th and finish games, as that's what the bench unit on our team does, and a semi-regular sub pattern leaves Smart scratching his head in confusion. I can't get over the irony of this guys last name.

But that's more a shot at Smart than thinking our 2nd best player, best perimeter defender, 2nd best positional rebounder, and only player capable of penetrating a half court defense should come off the bench, which I in no way support.

And MT is much, much more comparable and suited for a Terry role than Reke.

 

[Rookie]

Only reason I partially agree, is that that way Reke would play in the 4th and finish games, as that's what the bench unit on our team does, and a semi-regular sub pattern leaves Smart scratching his head in confusion. I can't get over the irony of this guys last name.

But that's more a shot at Smart than thinking our 2nd best player, best perimeter defender, 2nd best positional rebounder, and only player capable of penetrating a half court defense should come off the bench, which I in no way support.

And MT is much, much more comparable and suited for a Terry role than Reke.

I don't mind ppl playing the roation game and reasoning for their roation but what irks me is the remark about the coach. I doubt you know half of what he know to make accurate decision on the team roation. He got more than knowledgelable ppl around him to give advices as well and probably a lot of analyzer with ton of analysis. Basically ppl who do this for a living.

 

[xrzn]

Reke/MT/Donte and suddenly we give match-up problems to almost every team in the NBA.

How about a full-sized #3 with PG = Reke, SG = Salmons, and SF = Donte? Not that, in theory, would be the best defense to put on the floor. If Salmons and Donte could consistently hit the open shot, I would endorse this.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't mind ppl playing the roation game and reasoning for their roation but what irks me is the remark about the coach. I doubt you know half of what he know to make accurate decision on the team roation. He got more than knowledgelable ppl around him to give advices as well and probably a lot of analyzer with ton of analysis. Basically ppl who do this for a living.

So did Isiah Thomas. So did Kenny Natt. The notion that a coach is inherently more knowledgeable than a "layperson," just because he's a coach is, at best, disingenuous.

Remember, for every Scott Brooks, there are ten Jerry Reynolds.

 

[The Hammer]

So when are your mod rights being removed for personal attacks?

When making those types of comments around here you have to be very skillful. It's all about not attacking the person, but attacking their idea or their post. Personally, I have a good time trying to come up with ways to skewer, embarrass, make fun of, or otherwise put down ideas that I think are absolutely ludicrous, while adeptly avoiding the "personal attack" rebuttal.

A hypothetical example: "Trading Tyreke Evans for Ramon Sessions and a first round pick is the most supidest, worstest, baddest thing in the world and you should go back to your dark dumbhole for posting it."*

If in the above post the author had stopped at "baddest thing in the world", they would have been good. But they added a little personal attack on the end, which would have caused an infraction in this post.

Had Brick said: "I'm not going to let you vote that because you are stupid." That would have been a personal attack.

But, Brick found another way to express his opinion re: the stupidity of the idea, in such a way as to put the stupidity on the idea, rather than the poster. He implies that the "option" is stupid. He does not say that you are stupid. That's where all the difference lies.

I suggest you jump into the fray with the word games when wanting to lambast someone on here. It can be quite fun. I think I've gotten better at it lately, and it's been paying off with fewer infractions.

But I'd be careful, Brick's a lawyer. They're trained in this ****.

 

[Section 101]

Only reason I partially agree, is that that way Reke would play in the 4th and finish games, as that's what the bench unit on our team does, and a semi-regular sub pattern leaves Smart scratching his head in confusion. I can't get over the irony of this guys last name.

But that's more a shot at Smart than thinking our 2nd best player, best perimeter defender, 2nd best positional rebounder, and only player capable of penetrating a half court defense should come off the bench, which I in no way support.

And MT is much, much more comparable and suited for a Terry role than Reke.

Except he's not the best perimeter defender. Donte is a better defender on the perimeter and IT is quicker at closing out if Evans even bothers half the time. IT and even Jimmer are able to penetrate especially IT. Evans isn't the only one. In fact, IT and Jimmer have more options once they penetrate because they see the floor better. And before you say Jimmer gets in the paint then has no where to go, which is true sometimes, it's no different than Evans throwing up a brick off the glass when defenders pack the paint.

I have said on many threads that MT should be coming off the bench. But right now he is overall playing better than Evans and brings more options than just driving.

 

[Spike]

When making those types of comments around here you have to be very skillful. It's all about not attacking the person, but attacking their idea or their post. Personally, I have a good time trying to come up with ways to skewer, embarrass, make fun of, or otherwise put down ideas that I think are absolutely ludicrous, while adeptly avoiding the "personal attack" rebuttal.

For example, had Brick said: "I'm not going to let you vote that because you are stupid." That would have been a personal attack.

He found another way to express his opinion re: the stupidity of the idea, in such a way as to put the stupidity on the idea, rather than the poster. He implies that the "option" is stupid. He does not say that you are stupid. That's where all the difference lies.

I suggest you jump into the fray with the word games when wanting to lambast someone on here. It can be quite fun. I think I've gotten better at it lately, and it's been paying off with fewer infractions.

But I'd be careful, Brick's a lawyer. They're trained in this ****.

This post is a lot smarter than your previous ones.

(See what I did there? )

 

[Spike]

I went with full size #2, but I feel like Jimmer #2 is what the FO was hoping for in the long term. IT's rise probably put the kibosh on that idea, but Jimmer seems to be slowly chipping away and improving, although it seems glacial at times.
Again, I want to stress that there's nothing wrong with IT as a person, or as a player off the bench. Many very good players have had solid careers as bench players. When they become starters, sometimes we quickly realize why they were better as bench players.

 

[gunks]

Full sized #2.

At least until GP decides to earn his paycheck and gets us a real PG to play next to Reke. Then we can move MT's selfish, no d playin *** to the bench, or better yet another team.

 

[K F Jay]

The Jimmer Series #2 G=Jimmer, SG=Reke, SF=Donte
Tyreke gets more scoring opportunities while not always handling the ball. Jimmer a willing passer unlike some players. Jimmer knocks down open shots on kick outs from Tyreke and Cousins. Donte in for defense and Tyreke back to shutting down smaller guards.

 

[Kingster]

With IT definitely seeming to run down now, would you tweak the lineups again? If so what would you do?

There was not room for one option in the poll: PG=Jimmer, SG=Reke, SF=Salmons

Which would have been Fish With a Twist #2. But since Marcus Thornton would, appropriately I might add, probably choke out Smart if we ever tried to bench him for not one but TWO lesser players, figured it wasn't much of an option anyway.

IT running down? What, the energizer bunny needs a D battery? Taking IT out of the lineup isn't the answer. He's the most versatile guard they have, by a mile.

You could go back to Tyreke, Salmons and MT. After all, Salmons is shooting better, and that was the problem, right? That Salmons just couldn't shoot straight. That all we needed was a 3 who could shoot. So if you buy into that line of reasoning, put Salmons back in there, have Tyreke be the primary ballhandler, and MT the 2-guard and just see how far that takes you. But before you do, take the no-doze and the caffeine because it's going to be a constant beat of dribble, dribble, dribble.... Maybe the Power Balance crowd can come up with a dribble, dribble, dribble chant to encourage the press of the leather.

 

[Lockehead]

The Jimmer Series #2 G=Jimmer, SG=Reke, SF=Donte
Tyreke gets more scoring opportunities while not always handling the ball. Jimmer a willing passer unlike some players. Jimmer knocks down open shots on kick outs from Tyreke and Cousins. Donte in for defense and Tyreke back to shutting down smaller guards.

I'd like to see this as well. We're probably not going to see Donte at the 3 so Cisco would work as well.

IT simply takes too many shots to be in the starting lineup next to Thornton Reke and Cousins. And then there's the defense issues.

I'll take it a bit further and say that a backcourt of Reke and Thornton is pushing it. With all this talk about our guards, let us not forget the Cousins is our best player right now, and probably our most versatile offensive player. Before anyone else, he's our primary option.

Next would be Reke. And i'd like to see Cuz and Reke not hold back, and play at their best and develop their game. That's where MT may be a bit of a problem. He takes a lot of shots. It's starting to get to the point where its expected for him to take a lot of shots, sometimes more than Reke or Cousins. I don't think that's the direction we should be heading in. And that's where i think Jimmer can come in.

That'll leave Thornton and Thomas, along with Salmons et al on the bench, which could be a potent offensive backup. The starting lineup would be more balanced in terms of there being enough shots to go around. Pretty much taking away IT/Thornton's shots, and subbing in roleplaying Jimmer and Greene/Cisco to let Reke and Cousins get more time with the ball. Our halfcourt set should look better. On defense we'd have Jimmer in place of IT, where Jimmer has size but lack IT's quickness. Reke plays at the 2 instead of the 3, and we have a more fitting 3 to matchup with the other SF. The bench would still have defensive issues with a small backcourt of IT and Thornton, but their offense shouldn't be a problem.

 

[pshn80]

Smart has been tweaking the lineup regularly so I see him as being on top of what his options are. So I will sit back and see what he does. What do I guess he will do? Eventually he will change it unless it begins to click consistently. Juries out on that right now - we've won two of the last three.

 

[roasthawg]

Although it's not gonna happen, the Jimmer series #2 gets me the most excited.

 

[Heuge]

Ill take any lineup change that moves away from midget ball. I like IT off the bench to provide a situational spark. I also would rather not see IT on the floor with Marcus or Jimmer. EVER.

 

[kingjatt]

Full sized #2.

At least until GP decides to earn his paycheck and gets us a real PG to play next to Reke. Then we can move MT's selfish, no d playin *** to the bench, or better yet another team.

for as many shots he chucks up hes still the most active guard on defense and shows the most effort outside of IT. outside of big cuz hes the best iso/get buckets in crunch time type player we have because unlike reke he has a jumpshot that demands respect therefore he has the option to pull up or get to the bucket whereas reke can only pretty much make one move. He needs to have the 2nd unit/ finish games terry type role but with his new contract im sure he feels somewhat entitled and a benching would adversely effect his play and do this team no good.

 

[Sac.1989]

I do honestly think tyreke will be traded in a reshuffle that makes GP relevant again.