Thru 1 game/preseason Kings rank last in 3pt attempts. Red flag?

[kingdivac]

When the Kings defense improves, this discussion will not matter.

You mean if.- a conditional. The Jazz game had the feel of a track meet a bit from the highlights 3-pt FG% can be an equalizer given a higher percentage,, but that's another conditional. Statistically a horrendous quarter, like the 2nd quarter against the Jazz, can deep-six any team. Kings glaring statistic s last year was FTA and FTM . Boxscore had 18 FTA and 12 FTM....1ast year they averaged 14.3 FTM and 16.7 FTA...so close to average. 66% is poor. In a 6 pt loss the ugly % means something. Main thing on FTs is they are highly practice-able. no reason why an NBA team is not at least 78%

What was disappointing about the game last night was related to the Jazz pasting them a week earlier. Defensively I expected more. - especially from bench players. It's good that they had a good offensive showing, but I expected a chip on the teams collective shoulder and it wasn't there consistently on defense. They were not helping each other enough on defense from what I saw. in the breakdowns. One nice stat unexpectedly was very low turnovers. Next game.....move along.

 

[VF21]

You mean if.- a conditional. The Jazz game had the feel of a track meet a bit from the highlights 3-pt FG% can be an equalizer given a higher percentage,, but that's another conditional. Statistically a horrendous quarter, like the 2nd quarter against the Jazz, can deep-six any team. Kings glaring statistic s last year was FTA and FTM . Boxscore had 18 FTA and 12 FTM....1ast year they averaged 14.3 FTM and 16.7 FTA...so close to average. 66% is poor. In a 6 pt loss the ugly % means something. Main thing on FTs is they are highly practice-able. no reason why an NBA team is not at least 78%

What was disappointing about the game last night was related to the Jazz pasting them a week earlier. Defensively I expected more. - especially from bench players. It's good that they had a good offensive showing, but I expected a chip on the teams collective shoulder and it wasn't there consistently on defense. They were not helping each other enough on defense from what I saw. in the breakdowns. One nice stat unexpectedly was very low turnovers. Next game.....move along.

Highlights? Boxscore? Breakdowns? If you didn't actually see the game, I don't think you can draw too many conclusions from the bits you were able to see.

I agree with ppine. I believe it's a "when" not an "if". They just need a bit of time to put things together. They will improve.

 

[63royals]

I think part of the problem here could be blamed on 24-hour sports networks. There's nothing to talk about yet. If you're a 24-hour sports network, that's an unacceptable situation. So they'll throw out topics like the one in this thread, so that people will have something to argue about. To the point where it seems perfectly normal to some people to have topics like this one. We all know what they've done. It will be a while before we know if they're doing better this season. As KingsFanSince85 said above, after 10-15 games, THEN we can talk about it.

 

[Gliesian]

No, no, no. You’re doing math incorrectly. It’s only +6.

If both teams make the same amount of FG’s (total of 2s and 3s) then the team making 6 more 3s would net 6 more points.

For example, 20 FG’s that are all 2s and no 3s is 40 points. 20 FG’s with 6 of them being 3s is 46 points. Or +6.

But the Kings made 8 more FG’s overall which gave them +16. When combined with the +6 advantage the Jazz had from 3, the Kings were still +10. It was the FTM that did them in.

You’re giving the Jazz +3 for every three made when it is only a +1 advantage over a 2 pt FG.

ohhhh I misinterpreted your sentence my apologies.

 

[jcassio]

You guys who are taking issue with this thread... feel free to ignore it. I don't understand why some people post in threads about why the thread is unwarranted. It's simple: post if you're interested; otherwise ignore it.
With 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter with the Pels, the Kings have only taken about 10 3-pointers. So they're on track to be last again. I think it is a problem. It may be corrected, and having Bogs back will help, but you'd have to have your head in the sand to think "there's nothing to see here."

 

[sactowndog]

Snarky and not fair? Oh please. He's asking if it's a "red flag" after the pre-season and 1 game. UYou honestly don't think that's a tad premature? Seriously?

ONE. GAME. And that one without Bogs.

There are a few posters who seem to delight in jumping to conclusions at the drop of a hat. If they're gonna do that, they've got to expect reactions. If a picture of Chicken Little is snarky and not the least bit fair, they might need to find a kinder more gentler board.

No it was one game and an entire preseason and now you can add another game. Kings are playing 1990’s basketball in 2018. They were bad last year and worse this year.

 

[Kingsfan2002]

Highlights? Boxscore? Breakdowns? If you didn't actually see the game, I don't think you can draw too many conclusions from the bits you were able to see.

I agree with ppine. I believe it's a "when" not an "if". They just need a bit of time to put things together. They will improve.

Kings until Skal hit this last 3 have shot 14, 3pt shots........ again, Well below avg in fact that’s a league worse attempts so far this season! Oh joy! As I type this no joke Doug Christie just called out the team needing to shoot more 3’s. Everyone but coach seems to get this thru yes...... just 2 games

 

[kingdivac]

Highlights? Boxscore? Breakdowns? If you didn't actually watch the game I don't think you can draw too many conclusions from the bits you were able to see.

I agree with ppine. I believe it's a "when" not an "if". They just need a bit of time to put things together. They will improve.

Sure I'm free to draw conclusions, just as you are. If you watched the game and feel something is inaccurate, point it out. Feel free to believe they'll improve, but it doesn't make it any more or less likely to occur. It was not a good first game defensively. Had they won, it would've been the same conclusion. The FTs were a major problem for this team last year, and its not too big a jump to point them out as a continuing trend to start. As I said in my post, - next game, move along.

 

[sactowndog]

After 2 games the Kings have attempted a grand total of 11 catch and shoot threes.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/catch-shoot/

 

[sactowndog]

The Kings have a problem with catch and shoot kind of plays in general.

Kings have only attempted 13 total catch and shoot shots. Dead last in the league.
Buddy 1-3
Justin. 0-3
Shumpert 1-2
Yogi 1-2
Giles 0-1
Beli 1-1
Willie. 0-1

The fact that Buddy only has 3 catch and shoot attempts in 2 games is ridiculous.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

ohhhh I misinterpreted your sentence my apologies.

No worries, my friend

 

[KingsFanSince85]

No it was one game and an entire preseason and now you can add another game. Kings are playing 1990’s basketball in 2018. They were bad last year and worse this year.

1990’s basketball, give me a break. The wheel wasn’t reinvented the past 5 years. The 3 pt line has been around since 1979.

Just because the Kings aren’t great at making small 3 pt oriented teams pay for their style doesn’t mean it’s outdated. If Shaq or Duncan were reinvented tomorrow, that team wouldn’t have to shoot 30+ 3s to win. Cause they’d shoot 60+% in the paint.

Furthermore I scoff — and laugh — at fans that want a below average 3 point shooting team to shoot more 3s. Great strategy there.

There’s more than one way to win at the game of basketball. Emulating teams that play their style better than you do is not one of those ways.

People keep harping on 3 pt shooting when the Kings aren’t having trouble scoring the first 2 games. They’re averaging 123. The problem after two games seems to be defense. But let’s instead focus on mouse $&@% when there’s elephant $&@% everywhere. That makes a ton of sense.

 

[ESP47]

1990’s basketball, give me a break. The wheel wasn’t reinvented the past 5 years. The 3 pt line has been around since 1979.

Just because the Kings aren’t great at making small 3 pt oriented teams pay for their style doesn’t mean it’s outdated. If Shaq or Duncan were reinvented tomorrow, that team wouldn’t have to shoot 30+ 3s to win. Cause they’d shoot 60+% in the paint.

Furthermore I scoff — and laugh — at fans that want a below average 3 point shooting team to shoot more 3s. Great strategy there.

There’s more than one way to win at the game of basketball. Emulating teams that play their style better than you do is not one of those ways.

People keep harping on 3 pt shooting when the Kings aren’t having trouble scoring the first 2 games. They’re averaging 123. The problem after two games seems to be defense. But let’s instead focus on mouse $&@% when there’s elephant $&@% everywhere. That makes a ton of sense.

Where are you getting that the Kings are a below average 3 point shooting team? They were something like 5th or so in the league in 3pt% last year. They shoot them well, they just don't shoot very many of them.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Where are you getting that the Kings are a below average 3 point shooting team? They were something like 5th or so in the league in 3pt% last year. They shoot them well, they just don't shoot very many of them.

W/O Bogie, they're still good? Buddy is a good 3pt shooter, but who else beyond him? I'm not looking at or researching the stats right now, but doesn't Buddy take a large % of the teams threes? Which would skew the numbers?

 

[kb02]

I think the focus is wrong. Don't look at 3s. Look at the lack of FTs. That's where we're getting killed. The other team is on the line every other possession while we don't have anyone who puts the other team in the penalty. We had that in Boogie. We could've had that in Lavine (who attacks the rim with ease--off either hand).

 

[sactowndog]

Where are you getting that the Kings are a below average 3 point shooting team? They were something like 5th or so in the league in 3pt% last year. They shoot them well, they just don't shoot very many of them.

Actually they were third in the league and they added two good 3 point shooting players in Yogi and Beli.

 

[sactowndog]

W/O Bogie, they're still good? Buddy is a good 3pt shooter, but who else beyond him? I'm not looking at or researching the stats right now, but doesn't Buddy take a large % of the teams threes? Which would skew the numbers?

Mason, Belicia, Shumpert, Ferrell, and Hield are all very good three point shooters

WCS, Jackson, Fox and Bagley are poor three point shooters.

 

[sactowndog]

The issue of free throws and 3 point attempts is related. The Kings do a poor job of paint touches and decisions from there.

The Kings are 18th in paint touches

When they get in the paint they are 1st in Turnover %

When they get in the paint they are tied for last in Asst %

WCS, Bagley, Giles have touched the paint with the ball 31 times and made 5 passes with 0 assists and 4 Turnovers. They have to find spot up shooters.

Fox has 158 touches and zero paint touches.

Mason and Yogi have 150 touches and 7 paint touches

Mason, Ferrell and Fox have zero passes from the paint and zero assists.

Our point guards must be able to get in the paint and make good decisions. By comparison, Ben Simmons is equally poor shooter like Fox but he has 17 paint touches, 7 passes and 2 assists.

 

[LPKingsFan]

The issue of free throws and 3 point attempts is related. The Kings do a poor job of paint touches and decisions from there.

The Kings are 18th in paint touches

When they get in the paint they are 1st in Turnover %

When they get in the paint they are tied for last in Asst %

WCS, Bagley, Giles have touched the paint with the ball 31 times and made 5 passes with 0 assists and 4 Turnovers. They have to find spot up shooters.

Fox has 158 touches and zero paint touches.

Mason and Yogi have 150 touches and 7 paint touches

Mason, Ferrell and Fox have zero passes from the paint and zero assists.

Our point guards must be able to get in the paint and make good decisions. By comparison, Ben Simmons is equally poor shooter like Fox but he has 17 paint touches, 7 passes and 2 assists.

I appreciate that you're taking these deep statistical dives (do you have a synergy subscription, or are they publicly available?). I wonder about using some of these numbers as the best proxy of the thing you're looking for, though. Take the assists off paint touches -- I agree that, for an effective offense, you want guys driving and kicking to open shooters. But having just watched Bagley's highlights a minute ago, I saw multiple times where he posted or faced up just outside the paint, and found either an open 3-point shooter or an open cutter getting a good luck at the rim. Those are the types of looks you want the offense to generate, yet they don't show up in the paint touches/assist stat since Bagley is generating them from just outside the key.

Edit: I realize you're making a slightly different point -- about what the Kings are doing when they get in the paint, as opposed to how often they get into the paint.

 

[sactowndog]

I appreciate that you're taking these deep statistical dives (do you have a synergy subscription, or are they publicly available?). I wonder about using some of these numbers as the best proxy of the thing you're looking for, though. Take the assists off paint touches -- I agree that, for an effective offense, you want guys driving and kicking to open shooters. But having just watched Bagley's highlights a minute ago, I saw multiple times where he posted or faced up just outside the paint, and found either an open 3-point shooter or an open cutter getting a good luck at the rim. Those are the types of looks you want the offense to generate, yet they don't show up in the paint touches/assist stat since Bagley is generating them from just outside the key.

Edit: I realize you're making a slightly different point -- about what the Kings are doing when they get in the paint, as opposed to how often they get into the paint.

It’s all there at NBA.com under stats. And the point is both. Fox for example has zero paint touches. Seems hard to believe but the data is pretty accurate.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It’s all there at NBA.com under stats. And the point is both. Fox for example has zero paint touches. Seems hard to believe but the data is pretty accurate.

I'm not sure what "paint touch" means in this context, but BBref indicates that Fox is 3-4 on shots within three feet of the basket - hard to get within three feet of the basket without a "paint touch", right? If it means we haven't fed him the ball in the post...well, OK. We probably shouldn't really do that very often anyway.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm not sure what "paint touch" means in this context, but BBref indicates that Fox is 3-4 on shots within three feet of the basket - hard to get within three feet of the basket without a "paint touch", right? If it means we haven't fed him the ball in the post...well, OK. We probably shouldn't really do that very often anyway.

I am not absolutely positive but I don't think fast break points count for paint touches. It is a half court offense stat.

 

[sactowndog]

Looking at this chart it shows both Fox and Buddy tend to take a large number of mid range shots with Fox being the worst. I know many people love Fox but currently he doesn't have the handle to get to the rim consistently and shots the 3 point shot poorly.

 

[Section 101]

Looking at this chart it shows both Fox and Buddy tend to take a large number of mid range shots with Fox being the worst. I know many people love Fox but currently he doesn't have the handle to get to the rim consistently and shots the 3 point shot poorly.

Huh? They played Gobert and ad the top 2 players for defensive player of the year. Of course hes going to have limited attempts at the rim.

 

[sactowndog]

Huh? They played Gobert and ad the top 2 players for defensive player of the year. Of course hes going to have limited attempts at the rim.

Fair point. It was also true last year but we shall see if things change

 

[ESP47]

W/O Bogie, they're still good? Buddy is a good 3pt shooter, but who else beyond him? I'm not looking at or researching the stats right now, but doesn't Buddy take a large % of the teams threes? Which would skew the numbers?

Buddy, Yogi, Beli, and Mason are all good 3 point shooters.

Fox is going to have to take them to open his game up. Also Giles should be shooting them as well. He is very inefficient and will be all year because of the way he plays. He has shown the ability to hit the 3 with some efficiency since summer league. I'd like to see him shoot the long ball rather than throw up garbage from the mid range. If you're going to be inefficient, you might as well be inefficient from 3 since it'll net you more points in the long run.

 

[DesertFox]

3s are so much more insanely valuable than 2s, and they will keep going up. A toe behind a line makes a shot worth 50% more.
The league is just beginning to exploit it, and the Kings need to get on board or fall even further behind.

 

[rosa u podne]

Offense was efficient against elite defense (Utah) and another elite team (Pelicans). They averaged more then 120 ppg, with a good efficiency. Obviously game plan worked on that end of the court. Are you complaining because Kings didn't score 140+ ppg against two of the best teams in the league?

The area they can improve the most is defense. The conclusion is supported by the same elementary statistics - ppg and efficiency of opponents in these two games.

 

[kingsboi]

Offense was efficient against elite defense (Utah) and another elite team (Pelicans). They averaged more then 120 ppg, with a good efficiency. Obviously game plan worked on that end of the court. Are you complaining because Kings didn't score 140+ ppg against two of the best teams in the league?

The area they can improve the most is defense. The conclusion is supported by the same elementary statistics - ppg and efficiency of opponents in these two games.

when did the Pelicans become an "elite' team?

 

[rosa u podne]

when did the Pelicans become an "elite' team?

When they replaced Boogie by Mirotic.