The season is over

kingsboi said:
That's not really saying much. Anyone is playing better than McLemore. By the way, I wasn't clowning on the Trill pick. I vouched for Trill for two seasons and he was what the team needed the most for a long time. He fell and I was elated he fell. I am talking more about the Ben, Jimmer, T-Rob picks...
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I said At Worse! Meaning, that's the worse thing I could say about him. The implication is, that he's playing very well right now. Whether that will continue or not remains to be seen. I agree on Jimmer and T-Rob. I'll be kind and say that the jury is still out on Ben. but at the moment it's not looking good. But who knows, maybe what Karl is doing will make the lights come on. As for Willie, I've loved him since his freshman year at Kentucky. I thought he was as perfect a fit as you could have next to Cousins. I thought it might take a while, but he's getting there faster than I thought he would.
 
Hadlowe said:
1 and 4?
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Well, good point, but I was referring to the big picture overall. WCS filled a need we've had for some time. As much as I liked Stanley Johnson or any of the players picked after Willie, we didn't have a glaring need for any of them. I know some would argue that point, but that's my opinion.
 
bajaden said:
The question is whether he was the best pick for us, not whether some other player is putting up better stats than him who was picked after him. Where would we be right now with Cousins out if we had picked a PG instead?
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I just have a bad feeling that we'll look back at this draft 5 years from now and look at all the guys we whiffed on.

You can already tell that we failed in the 2014 draft..because we gave up on our guy for cap space. 2014 was the year that was supposed to be the best lotto draft classes in a loooong time.

Right now, I'm just not a big fan of Vlade's moves.

WCS filled an immediate need..just like how T-Rob did. In 2012, I wanted MKG or Drummond. In 2013, I wanted CJ McCollum. In 2014, I wanted Stauskas or Payton. We did draft Stauskas, but gave him up.

People were so surprised that Stauskas sucked after having to learn under 3 coaches all in 1 year. (None of them utilized him to his strengths either. ..because Andre Miller was such a good backup PG that we didn't need Stauskas to handle the ball)


I think if we don't reach the playoffs or at least 45wins, Vlade will be the worst GM in the NBA.

You really can't sugarcoat what we gave up for cap space...you really can't..
 
206Fan said:
I just have a bad feeling that we'll look back at this draft 5 years from now and look at all the guys we whiffed on.

You can already tell that we failed in the 2014 draft..because we gave up on our guy for cap space. 2014 was the year that was supposed to be the best lotto draft classes in a loooong time.

Right now, I'm just not a big fan of Vlade's moves.

WCS filled an immediate need..just like how T-Rob did. In 2012, I wanted MKG or Drummond. In 2013, I wanted CJ McCollum. In 2014, I wanted Stauskas or Payton. We did draft Stauskas, but gave him up.

People were so surprised that Stauskas sucked after having to learn under 3 coaches all in 1 year. (None of them utilized him to his strengths either. ..because Andre Miller was such a good backup PG that we didn't need Stauskas to handle the ball)


I think if we don't reach the playoffs or at least 45wins, Vlade will be the worst GM in the NBA.

You really can't sugarcoat what we gave up for cap space...you really can't..
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We gave up crap.

It was the move that had to be made. At a certain point not trying to make a move like that is not only lacking vision, its approaching cowardice.

But nothing will ever work without the big guy. That's largely true for any franchise though. Injuries to your The Man can always sink you. in fact already sunk this franchise once a decade ago. We're just in such a delicate situation after a solid decade of nonsense that even a 2-game miss because of a sore achilles is a threat. A month with a sprained ankle a disaster. We are so on the edge that it doesn't take anything serious now. We need 70+ games of Boogie. To maximize our chances we might need 75+
 
Personally, I liked the moves. Might be wrong but they all made sense to me. Thought we'd be okay with cuz out for a bit, but I was wrong about that too. This whole thing is not vlade's fault....its mine.

Now that it is gonna be 4 losing games minimum with no cuz, it'll be time for Rudy to go day to day. Seen this movie before. Hope I'm wrong.
 
I did not like the trade with the 76ers, because we added Stauskas and I didn't like the giving up on yet another draftee.
But the season is still young. Things can change quickly.
When we make the playoffs the move might not look that bad - depending on the signings we are able to pull off next FA period.
But in case we miss the playoffs....

Making a move just because you think you had to make a move always involves the risk of mindless activism. Winning in this league is not all about veterans, but more about team identity, matching skillsets and a system, that fits todays rules of basketball and exploits any advantage your team has.
We have added veterans. Wether their skillsets are matching well and we can play a system, that leads us to success is still up in the air.
 
panic.gif
 
New Arena opens in 6 months! Also, I must have got really trashed because I don't even remember winter.
 
Bricklayer said:
We gave up crap.

It was the move that had to be made. At a certain point not trying to make a move like that is not only lacking vision, its approaching cowardice.

But nothing will ever work without the big guy. That's largely true for any franchise though. Injuries to your The Man can always sink you. in fact already sunk this franchise once a decade ago. We're just in such a delicate situation after a solid decade of nonsense that even a 2-game miss because of a sore achilles is a threat. A month with a sprained ankle a disaster. We are so on the edge that it doesn't take anything serious now. We need 70+ games of Boogie. To maximize our chances we might need 75+
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It's extremely early in the season and at most we're going to get 78 games out of Cousins. Maybe the title of this thread is serious.
 
I hope the put together some semblance of effort tonight.

If the team implodes, losing the #1 pick to Philly would be like rubbing salt on a wound..
 
bajaden said:
Ahhhh, I think WCS is going to be just fine. And, so far this year, Stauskas is playing well for Philly. He started the last two games and is averaging 14.5 points for those games. At worse, he's playing better than McLemore.
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Stauskas is actually shooting worse so far this young season than he did last season in terms of both FG% and 3P%.

Sure he scored 14 points in nearly 35 minutes in his last game but he also shot 5 of 19 from the field and 3 of 14 from three.

That said, if Nik is going to make anything of himself as an NBA player getting to play 25-30 minutes a night and having the green light to shoot at all times is going to give him the best chance to develop.
 
Bricklayer said:
We gave up crap.

It was the move that had to be made. At a certain point not trying to make a move like that is not only lacking vision, its approaching cowardice.

But nothing will ever work without the big guy. That's largely true for any franchise though. Injuries to your The Man can always sink you. in fact already sunk this franchise once a decade ago. We're just in such a delicate situation after a solid decade of nonsense that even a 2-game miss because of a sore achilles is a threat. A month with a sprained ankle a disaster. We are so on the edge that it doesn't take anything serious now. We need 70+ games of Boogie. To maximize our chances we might need 75+
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It's true that any team that loses it's best player is going to struggle. The Warriors without Curry are still a great team but with a greatly diminished chance at a championship.

But the Kings are much worse than most teams when Cousins goes down. And that's because the 2nd best player on the team has consistently shown himself to be absolutely awful and inefficient when tasked with stepping into the role of primary scorer.

Rudy Gay has been a good wingman for Boogie but he's a major liability when Cousins is out.
 
funkykingston said:
It's true that any team that loses it's best player is going to struggle. The Warriors without Curry are still a great team but with a greatly diminished chance at a championship.

But the Kings are much worse than most teams when Cousins goes down. And that's because the 2nd best player on the team has consistently shown himself to be absolutely awful and inefficient when tasked with stepping into the role of primary scorer.

Rudy Gay has been a good wingman for Boogie but he's a major liability when Cousins is out.
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Very much so, but I also thinks it goes further than that. All successful teams have a good fundamental system that allows to cover for their star going down that much easier, whereas we do not. It puts a lot more pressure on Cuz when he is in, and makes it that much more devastating when he's not. Malone's system was "defense no matter what" which will keep you in games more often than not (his offensive schemes were not very inventive though). Karl's system is 1) dribble and drive; 2) ???; 3) profit.
 
funkykingston said:
Stauskas is actually shooting worse so far this young season than he did last season in terms of both FG% and 3P%.

Sure he scored 14 points in nearly 35 minutes in his last game but he also shot 5 of 19 from the field and 3 of 14 from three.

That said, if Nik is going to make anything of himself as an NBA player getting to play 25-30 minutes a night and having the green light to shoot at all times is going to give him the best chance to develop.
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I saw somewhere thst Nik's TS% was above .500.

I think Philly is a nice place for him to develop, but there's no reason why he couldn't be our Evan Fournier. Nik is talented, but he's just raw. The only downside to his game was his strength. He had everything else. Shoot lights out? Check. Ball handler? Check. Passer? Check.

His strength was his biggest weakness.

I hope Nik becomes a good NBA player, but at the same time if he does, it'll show how bad Vlade messed up.
 
CuzistanKing said:
Very much so, but I also thinks it goes further than that. All successful teams have a good fundamental system that allows to cover for their star going down that much easier, whereas we do not. It puts a lot more pressure on Cuz when he is in, and makes it that much more devastating when he's not. Malone's system was "defense no matter what" which will keep you in games more often than not (his offensive schemes were not very inventive though). Karl's system is 1) dribble and drive; 2) ???; 3) profit.
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I completely agree. Also was I was furious over Malone's firing.

You have to have something to hang your hat on as a team regardless of whether your best player is out. An identity.

I thought that with a full training camp Karl would be able to give this team that even if it wasn't the identity I wanted. So far I'm not seeing it.
 
funkykingston said:
I completely agree. Also was I was furious over Malone's firing.

You have to have something to hang your hat on as a team regardless of whether your best player is out. An identity.

I thought that with a full training camp Karl would be able to give this team that even if it wasn't the identity I wanted. So far I'm not seeing it.
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I don't like the confusion and lack of organization, especially defensively.

And a new roster isn't an excuse after a full training camp. Malone after a full training camp last year had us much more organized.

We seem to have wasted almost 6 weeks on a system which doesn't fit our players while ignoring defense. So while we can hope Karl makes changes, the more pressing question is why has he wasted all this time? It didn't take a guy like Malone much time to look at what we had and put it in the best position to succeed. Meanwhile Karl's had Cuz jacking up 3's and hugging the perimeter since preseason tipped while our halfcourt sets are in shambles and there's very little apparent focus on defensive game planning.
 
206Fan said:
I saw somewhere thst Nik's TS% was above .500.

I think Philly is a nice place for him to develop, but there's no reason why he couldn't be our Evan Fournier. Nik is talented, but he's just raw. The only downside to his game was his strength. He had everything else. Shoot lights out? Check. Ball handler? Check. Passer? Check.

His strength was his biggest weakness.

I hope Nik becomes a good NBA player, but at the same time if he does, it'll show how bad Vlade messed up.
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I liked Stauskas and I thought he was going to have a solid rookie year after watching him in summer league.

But Nik has more issues than a lack of strength. He tested well at the combine but in games he didn't show the lateral quickness to stay in front of guys. That combined with a lack of strength made him an easy target and opposing teams just went at him, relentlessly at times.

But the biggest thing for me was that the swagger he showed at Michigan was gone. He was tentative, often passive. I hesitate to throw this label around but to me he looked like he was playing scared. So much of the NBA hinges on confidence and I just didn't see it from Stauskas.
 
bajaden said:
Well, good point, but I was referring to the big picture overall. WCS filled a need we've had for some time. As much as I liked Stanley Johnson or any of the players picked after Willie, we didn't have a glaring need for any of them. I know some would argue that point, but that's my opinion.
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Don't get me wrong, I like the WCS pick, though I bought into the injury concerns pre-draft and was hoping for Porzingis or Hezonja. I still think he is the best fit for the roster and close to BPA at the time.

Mostly, I just wanted to be a snarky a-hole.
 
funkykingston said:
It's true that any team that loses it's best player is going to struggle. The Warriors without Curry are still a great team but with a greatly diminished chance at a championship.

But the Kings are much worse than most teams when Cousins goes down. And that's because the 2nd best player on the team has consistently shown himself to be absolutely awful and inefficient when tasked with stepping into the role of primary scorer.

Rudy Gay has been a good wingman for Boogie but he's a major liability when Cousins is out.
Click to expand...

Let's just say that Boogie is about as important as far as over all team impact to his team as James and there is no other teams out there that rely so much on one guy and they drop off so bad without them. Now, when I mention James I mean of course before they acquired Love and the team they have in place now. Irving is a good scorer but when he was put as the primary scorer, Cleveland was in the lottery every season.
 
CuzistanKing said:
Very much so, but I also thinks it goes further than that. All successful teams have a good fundamental system that allows to cover for their star going down that much easier, whereas we do not. It puts a lot more pressure on Cuz when he is in, and makes it that much more devastating when he's not. Malone's system was "defense no matter what" which will keep you in games more often than not (his offensive schemes were not very inventive though). Karl's system is 1) dribble and drive; 2) ???; 3) profit.
Click to expand...

Yet, we were just as awful with Malone when Cousins went down.

That stretch continues to get overrated around here. Yes, we were playing good basketball and getting after it on the defensive end, but the shooting percentages were completely not sustainable. A full year of Malone wouldn't have been 45-50 wins, but closer to 35-38 wins. We were close to last in basically every major efficiency category, but got to the line a freakish amount of times, that it kept us (and won us) games.
 
funkykingston said:
I liked Stauskas and I thought he was going to have a solid rookie year after watching him in summer league.

But Nik has more issues than a lack of strength. He tested well at the combine but in games he didn't show the lateral quickness to stay in front of guys. That combined with a lack of strength made him an easy target and opposing teams just went at him, relentlessly at times.

But the biggest thing for me was that the swagger he showed at Michigan was gone. He was tentative, often passive. I hesitate to throw this label around but to me he looked like he was playing scared. So much of the NBA hinges on confidence and I just didn't see it from Stauskas.
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Not that he's setting the world on fire or anything, but he's fixing that quick in Philly, basically operating as their #2 option behind Okafor.
 
The_Jamal said:
Yet, we were just as awful with Malone when Cousins went down.

That stretch continues to get overrated around here. Yes, we were playing good basketball and getting after it on the defensive end, but the shooting percentages were completely not sustainable. A full year of Malone wouldn't have been 45-50 wins, but closer to 35-38 wins. We were close to last in basically every major efficiency category, but got to the line a freakish amount of times, that it kept us (and won us) games.
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And I'd say obsession with offensive categories gets overrated by some around here. What matters is how you utilize the tools you got to achieve the best result possible.

I would also dispute the notion that we were "just as awful" last year without Cousins for two reasons: we weren't losing by such large margins and our depth this season is miles ahead of last year (so expectations should be higher). Our starting five was among the best in the league precisely because of defense, but there was a Hoover Dam sized drop-off in talent as soon as you went to the bench. And yes, getting to the line is part of how you win with smash-mouth basketball, not sure why you'd think it wasn't sustainable. Finally, if Malone could've gotten 35-38 wins out the last year's squad - I'd guarantee a 10 game improvement this year just from continuity and the talent upgrade we got, which would have us fighting for the 8th spot, and as of today is the very-best-case scenario for this Karl's team. So yeah, sign me up for that!
 
The_Jamal said:
Yet, we were just as awful with Malone when Cousins went down.

That stretch continues to get overrated around here. Yes, we were playing good basketball and getting after it on the defensive end, but the shooting percentages were completely not sustainable. A full year of Malone wouldn't have been 45-50 wins, but closer to 35-38 wins. We were close to last in basically every major efficiency category, but got to the line a freakish amount of times, that it kept us (and won us) games.
Click to expand...

The getting to the line was not an accident. Its what happens when you play smashmouth ball and have a major foul drawing big to key it.
 
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