The Rudy Gay Effect? (merged)

[kingsboi]

And, in my view, the "Cuz effect" which is quite similar to the "Gay effect" you describe should be mentioned. The ball moves better on offense when Cuz is on the bench. In either case it is not the end of the world. But in each case it would be better if the two joined in to make the ball move better all the time. We win when the ball moves. Despite the fact that it sounds crazy, it seems it is more important towards winning a game if the rest of the team has a good game than if Cuz has a good game. Things to think about.

If you are to have one ball dominant player, then fine...lots of teams have them. But two of them? Unless you are the Warriors who are willing to share the ball...it isn't gonna be successful in the present nor in the future. I've stated on a number of occasions that I'd sacrifice points from Boogie for more rebounds and defense. The players at the helm don't have the merits to bring it on a game to game basis, so what that means is that the best success moving forward is a balanced scoring attack, rather than Cousins scoring 30+ and everyone else below 10.

 

[Larry89]

Boogie is quite ball dominant but surround him with people willing to pass and suddenly his efficiency goes up. He still has a bad tendency to dribble alot on the wings and top of the key but only because alot of our players cannot create opportunities offensively.

 

[Larry89]

You know very well why this is being brought up. It's there for the naked eye to see, even if the Kings lose ball games without Rudy, the ball movement and defensive effort is glaring in terms of when he is on the court. It's only a small sample size so far, but I feel confident in saying that the "Rudy Gay effect" is real and it's that ball and chain attached to our ankle.

The Rudy Gay effect is real, us fans just had fan goggles on the entire time. Toronto fans said it, Grizz fans said it... and now we're saying it. When Rudy isn't scoring he doesn't bring much of anything else to the table. I've seen a handful of good defensive games from him this year and thats about it. He feasts on lesser talent, and then when going against good teams he gets completely shut down.

 

[upinsmoke]

I'm skeptical about him opting out too. I don't see teams in a rush to add him to their roster or he would have been traded by now.

 

[kingsboi]

I'm skeptical about him opting out too. I don't see teams in a rush to add him to their roster or he would have been traded by now.

Look at it from another teams perspective. Why trade for him when he has made no commitment to the team? he plans on exploring free agency I assume. No team will give you much of worth for a rental.

 

[Joshoua]

http://hoopshype.com/rumors/

They said we offered Gay for Dragic and talks stoped when Miami wanted Collison added too.
At this point I'd easily do that trade I think Dragic is slightly better as he can get his own more than DC, this year without Wade he's at 19-4-6.

 

[dude12]

http://hoopshype.com/rumors/

They said we offered Gay for Dragic and talks stoped when Miami wanted Collison added too.
At this point I'd easily do that trade I think Dragic is slightly better as he can get his own more than DC, this year without Wade he's at 19-4-6.

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat

 

[LPKingsFan]

Here's the original link: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-the-heats-rebuild-is-anything-but-clear-cut-185141943.html

Dragic is open to a trade, league sources told The Vertical, and Miami has pursued that option. An early season swap with Sacramento for Rudy Gay fell apart when the Heat sought Darren Collison, sources said, and teams that have probed Miami about Dragic have found the Heat open to offers.

I get that these are pretty much the Kings' two best players, but if he really wants to keep building around Boogie, Vlade should have pulled the trigger. Don't want to risk both walking for nothing next season. Dragic is imperfect, but he's an asset.

 

[peacelate]

Why not just use Rudy as a 6th man.

 

[upinsmoke]

Why not just use Rudy as a 6th man.

I've been saying that too. Problem is Rudy would go crying to to Woj right away... Let's do it!

 

[ParniValjak]

People keep mentioning LAC as being the most obvious destination for Rudy. Sure in a perfect world that makes a whole heap of sense BUT the Clippers really have no assets to trade for him. They are not going to trade any of Jordan, Griffen, Paul or Reddick and outside of those 4 there really are not assets that would be attractive for the Kings.

If Rudy does get traded I think it will either be OKC or Miami. OKC made a whole heap of sense before they traded Ilyasova to Philadephia.

 

[upinsmoke]

People keep mentioning LAC as being the most obvious destination for Rudy. Sure in a perfect world that makes a whole heap of sense BUT the Clippers really have no assets to trade for him. They are not going to trade any of Jordan, Griffen, Paul or Reddick and outside of those 4 there really are not assets that would be attractive for the Kings.

If Rudy does get traded I think it will either be OKC or Miami. OKC made a whole heap of sense before they traded Ilyasova to Philadephia.

I believe LAC owes a pick still but they can give us a future pick still. Or Vlade can demand doc's 1st born son muhahaha.

 

[ParniValjak]

I believe LAC owes a pick still but they can give us a future pick still. Or Vlade can demand doc's 1st born son muhahaha.

Didn't they trade their pick for Jeff Green last year?

 

[swisshh]

The Clippers really have nothing trade-wise.

I saw someone suggest a three team deal involving Dragic, Kanter and Gay. You could do the same deal with Knight and Phoenix.

 

[ockingsfan]

Big question.

When Rudy is healthy, and if he is not traded, would coach Joeger dare to bring Rudy off the bench, instead of start him???

MOD NOTE: This topic has been touched on in multiple threads. Might as well have one thread to bind them all.

 

[miltonap]

Big question.

When Rudy is healthy, and if he is not traded, would coach Joeger dare to bring Rudy off the bench, instead of start him???

I was going to mention this. I think this is the perfect excuse to bring Rudy off the bench. "Ease" him back into the action. If/when he produces in that role, coach has the perfect excuse to bring him off the bench.

If that doesn't happen, trade him.

 

[funkykingston]

I was going to mention this. I think this is the perfect excuse to bring Rudy off the bench. "Ease" him back into the action. If/when he produces in that role, coach has the perfect excuse to bring him off the bench.

If that doesn't happen, trade him.

Rudy made it pretty clear before the season that he wanted out of Sacramento and would opt out after this season.

Having him come off the bench would likely eliminate any chance of him changing his mind. Vlade needs to trade him for something now before he loses him for nothing.

 

[ockingsfan]

Rudy made it pretty clear before the season that he wanted out of Sacramento and would opt out after this season.

Having him come off the bench would likely eliminate any chance of him changing his mind. Vlade needs to trade him for something now before he loses him for nothing.

Maybe Rudy is being held out to be traded?

Cameron Payne is returning to action December 29th. The kings may want to see him in action and them pull the trigger on an okc trade?

 

[Blob]

Maybe Rudy is being held out to be traded?

Cameron Payne is returning to action December 29th. The kings may want to see him in action and them pull the trigger on an okc trade?

Stop stealing my points

 

[miltonap]

Rudy made it pretty clear before the season that he wanted out of Sacramento and would opt out after this season.

Having him come off the bench would likely eliminate any chance of him changing his mind. Vlade needs to trade him for something now before he loses him for nothing.

But it might improve the team? Thus making us look more attractive to sign with in the offseason?

 

[Glenn]

Big question.

When Rudy is healthy, and if he is not traded, would coach Joeger dare to bring Rudy off the bench, instead of start him???

MOD NOTE: This topic has been touched on in multiple threads. Might as well have one thread to bind them all.

No matter what your plans are for a guy like him, you don't bring him off the bench. It's insulting. Besides, I'm not sure I want to break up the magic the bench is creating. The bench works like a Joeger team. The starters do not and that may be the Boogie effect which I think we are all happy to live with.

 

[Gilles]

Malone did fine, using Boogie, Rudy and DC together, but it seems, Joerger can't make it work. Mind you, Malone had a third of the season test run to mesh Boogie and Rudy together, but as almost every time recently, Kings look to be a victim of bad timing, so Vlade will have to make a tough call: I don't want Kings to trade for Payne, but, if Rudy+DC for Dragic is still there, I think, Kings should go with that.

 

[funkykingston]

Malone did fine, using Boogie, Rudy and DC together, but it seems, Joerger can't make it work. Mind you, Malone had a third of the season test run to mesh Boogie and Rudy together, but as almost every time recently, Kings look to be a victim of bad timing, so Vlade will have to make a tough call: I don't want Kings to trade for Payne, but, if Rudy+DC for Dragic is still there, I think, Kings should go with that.

The difference was that Malone was fine with ISO ball and Joerger wants more ball movement. Malone also used Rudy more as a cutter which should actually work better with the Cousins of today who creates more space than when Malone had him playing almost exclusively in the post.

But Joerger also seems more fond of horns sets and high post offense which doesn't really play to Rudy's strengths.

It's also worth noting that while Malone was having success before Boogie's viral meningitis, it was largely a result of the team buying into his defensive concept and not because the offense was really clicking. In fact, it was pretty vanilla and predictable. I think that lack of ball movement and willingness to engage in more iso ball benefitted Rudy.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The difference was that Malone was fine with ISO ball and Joerger wants more ball movement. Malone also used Rudy more as a cutter which should actually work better with the Cousins of today who creates more space than when Malone had him playing almost exclusively in the post.

But Joerger also seems more fond of horns sets and high post offense which doesn't really play to Rudy's strengths.

It's also worth noting that while Malone was having success before Boogie's viral meningitis, it was largely a result of the team buying into his defensive concept and not because the offense was really clicking. In fact, it was pretty vanilla and predictable. I think that lack of ball movement and willingness to engage in more iso ball benefitted Rudy.

Malone's biggest deficit with his tenure here was that the offense was pretty bland and almost too simple. Joerger's offense is more complicated and he has some nice sets. However, Rudy is such an enigma and his rather narrow talent base (scoring in isolation) makes him difficult to fit in a structured offense. Rudy isn't good at creating, passing, or dribbling, which means he can't be used as a primary centerpiece of the offense. I really think we ought to trade Rudy ASAP in order to get players that can really help, but I think Vlade waits until the deadline, hoping to find a desperate team which would give us more in return. I just hope our playoff hopes aren't fizzled out yet by then.

 

[bajaden]

The difference was that Malone was fine with ISO ball and Joerger wants more ball movement. Malone also used Rudy more as a cutter which should actually work better with the Cousins of today who creates more space than when Malone had him playing almost exclusively in the post.

But Joerger also seems more fond of horns sets and high post offense which doesn't really play to Rudy's strengths.

It's also worth noting that while Malone was having success before Boogie's viral meningitis, it was largely a result of the team buying into his defensive concept and not because the offense was really clicking. In fact, it was pretty vanilla and predictable. I think that lack of ball movement and willingness to engage in more iso ball benefitted Rudy.

I agree completely. We keep talking about Malone's success, but that's based on a very short sampling. As you said, Malone's offense was very predictable, and it was only a matter of time before the league figured out how to defend it, if they already hadn't. We'll never know what would have happened if Malone had been allowed to continue.

On a personal level, I'm happier with Joerger's offensive system. It involves everyone on the floor, and if run properly, makes for easier shots. Rudy's problem is that his skill set works better in an isolation type offense. In Joerger's offense, he's a ball stopper. Rudy has his moments though. There are times when he does move without the ball, or makes the timely pass off penetration. But for the most part, its no more than a tease.

Rudy is what he is, and he has just about everything you need in his tool box. The problem is, he seems to use them one tool at a time. There isn't any flow to his game. For the most part, I can almost predict what he's going to do when he gets the ball, and if I can predict it, then so can the opposition.