[The Ringer] The Kings’ Road to the Deadline Could Dictate the Title Chase

#31
Let's be real: If Vlade flat out said "We're not trading Bogi", half of the fanbase would be going "ZOMG ITS A SMOKESCREEEN FOR A BOGI TRADE!" and another significant portion of the fanbase would be crying because they hyped themselves up for a ridiculous trade that was never going to happen anyways. The Kings gain absolutely nothing by public stating they won't trade a guy lest we've already forgotten the Boogie trade saga.
They have one thing to gain: showing Bogi their commitment to signing him, which is the plan, as you said.
Also, plenty of teams make such comments about players not being on the market; like Washington has done regarding Bertans and the Knicks regarding Morris (although that may change now that NY fired Steve Mills).
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#32
They have one thing to gain: showing Bogi their commitment to signing him, which is the plan, as you said.
Also, plenty of teams make such comments about players not being on the market; like Washington has done regarding Bertans and the Knicks regarding Morris (although that may change now that NY fired Steve Mills).
There are better ways to show your girl you love her than throwing yourself off the Tower Bridge
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#34
Well, if condescending and snarky answers are all I get here, this convo is likely going nowhere.

Good day to you.
Condescending? No. Snarky? Hell the **** yeah.

Throwing yourself off a bridge to show your girlfriend you love her could work but even in the best case scenario, you're probably getting out of there with a broken back and several thousand dollars of medical bills.

You know what else works? Telling her and showing her you love her through the course of daily life together.

In case it wasn't obvious, the girlfriend in this scenario is Bogi and the bridge-jumping is randomly holding a press conference to tell the world you aren't trading him for some reason.
 
#35
don't want Hinkie as GM and I don't want to go thru "The Process". Bottom line Hinkie got fired and Philly still is not the unstoppable force some like to think it is. Exhibit A is look at the Miami Heat.
I think Sixers fans are quite happy they went through the process. Acutally imo Hinkie is a pretty celebrated guy amongst the sixers fans. Nba pressured sixers to fire him, Colangelo and Brand didnt do very good job after that and they still are a championship contender now and in the future. I'll take a proper four year process over 13 years of desperate win now moves and 34wins any day
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#36
Are you reading what you are saying? The checkbook was brought out for the teams highest paid player and leading scorer, and he was playing so poorly in a starting role they had to change the lineup. So yeah, it is concerning when you turn your "Curry" into Bobby Jackson.
I don't care what they're paying him. I care about results. This whole morbid fascination with salaries has become ridiculous.

Hield isn't Curry. Bobby Jackson was 6th Man of the Year.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#37
But no whiff of a rumor out there of the Kings shooting down these rumors or stating that Bogi is not for sale, which was my main point.
Those aren't called rumors; those are called leaks. Petrie didn't allow them. PDA did - to the point where it's almost a certainty he put some of those leaks out there himself.

Vlade doesn't allow leaks and doesn't respond to trade rumors. Why would he other than to satisfy the ridiculous need to know some fans seem to have.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#41
They have one thing to gain: showing Bogi their commitment to signing him, which is the plan, as you said.
Also, plenty of teams make such comments about players not being on the market; like Washington has done regarding Bertans and the Knicks regarding Morris (although that may change now that NY fired Steve Mills).
At the risk of sounding condescending or snarky, OF COURSE some teams make those comments. They also turn around and trade the player they've said they aren't going to trade. (Peja Stojakovic on line 1 with Demarcus Cousins on line 2).
 
#43
I don't care what they're paying him. I care about results. This whole morbid fascination with salaries has become ridiculous.

Hield isn't Curry. Bobby Jackson was 6th Man of the Year.
If we lived in a world without a salary cap I might agree. But we don't, so pay matters in relation to options and success.

And despite bjax being great in his role, was he ever the teams highest paid player? That's the point. You don't waste a limited resource disproportionately or you get poor results.
 
#44
Are you reading what you are saying? The checkbook was brought out for the teams highest paid player and leading scorer, and he was playing so poorly in a starting role they had to change the lineup. So yeah, it is concerning when you turn your "Curry" into Bobby Jackson.
He’s not yet the highest paid, and only will be for one season, max.
 
#45
Those aren't called rumors; those are called leaks. Petrie didn't allow them. PDA did - to the point where it's almost a certainty he put some of those leaks out there himself.

Vlade doesn't allow leaks and doesn't respond to trade rumors. Why would he other than to satisfy the ridiculous need to know some fans seem to have.
Yes he does... and uh yes he does.

I don't care what they're paying him. I care about results. This whole morbid fascination with salaries has become ridiculous.

Hield isn't Curry. Bobby Jackson was 6th Man of the Year.
You don't understand why fans take interest in the salary cap? It isn't because they have a vested concern in the way these rich people spend their money. It matters to any fan who cares about the well-being of their team and its future. Saying you don't worry about the salary cap means you also shouldn't worry when Buddy Hield loses his dribble out of bounds or the team tallies another 28 win season.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#46
Yes he does... and uh yes he does.



You don't understand why fans take interest in the salary cap? It isn't because they have a vested concern in the way these rich people spend their money. It matters to any fan who cares about the well-being of their team and its future. Saying you don't worry about the salary cap means you also shouldn't worry when Buddy Hield loses his dribble out of bounds or the team tallies another 28 win season.
Oh okay. I'll just turn in my fan card. :rolleyes:
 
#47
I read the article and it is a rehash of what we Kings Fans already know. He speaks glowingly about one player:

"The first stat that jumps off Bogdanovic’s page is his shooting—a career 37.5 percent 3-point mark on more than five attempts per game. Bogdanovic has a quick, accurate shot and considerable range, and he’s not a zero off the bounce either, with an average handle in the pick-and-roll and a deceptively successful isolation game. He even registers around average or better as a defender, according to various advanced stats."

Why the heck would the KIngs not want to hang on to Bogi? He is a good player and is only 27 years old.

What player or pick would it take to land Bogi? Certainly beter or more than Kuzma which was floated in the media by the Lakers.
 
#48
I think Sixers fans are quite happy they went through the process. Acutally imo Hinkie is a pretty celebrated guy amongst the sixers fans. Nba pressured sixers to fire him, Colangelo and Brand didnt do very good job after that and they still are a championship contender now and in the future. I'll take a proper four year process over 13 years of desperate win now moves and 34wins any day
So if you had your way Hinkie would be hired and the Kings would have 4 sub 20 win seasons? What if he picked 4 Fultz's and Okafor's?

Anyhow I'm glad we have this forum for us to discuss this. But 4 years of Hinkie? Heaven help us:confused:
 
#49
as fans, nobody likes to hear anyone say negative things about their team. But saying this article is trash is way off base. We havent been relevant in a decade and a half and have continued to make mistakes. This article does make several valid points. Are we tying up all of our money in players that dont fit together regardless if they are any good? The wins are not coming that is obvious. People talk about luka but forget about Jackson. He is playing really well for a 500 team and a playoff contender. Jackson is able to stretch the floor and anchors the d. Bagley does neither. Bogi is a really solid player who will get a really nice pay increase next season, but by whom. The only way for this negativity from the media to stop is for us to start making wise decisions and win. It looked like we were doing that last year and then it all went to hell.
 
#50
Like Carmichael Dave said, if bogi stays past the deadline they better sign him because if he ends up
Walking for nothing it’s just another huge mistake on vlade’s pile of “accomplishments”.

i have no doubt vlade is under some pretty serious pressure right now. He’s a trash GM to begin with. Heap a ton of pressure on top of that and it just becomes downright scary. Wouldn’t be surprised to wake up at the deadline to find out he pulled off another Philadelphia debacle desperately trying to address dedmon’s trade request and Bogi.

#fireyourselfvlade
 
#51
So if you had your way Hinkie would be hired and the Kings would have 4 sub 20 win seasons? What if he picked 4 Fultz's and Okafor's?

Anyhow I'm glad we have this forum for us to discuss this. But 4 years of Hinkie? Heaven help us:confused:
If I was guaranteed a similar asset pool, yes I would rather do a one 3-4 year process followed by multiple years as a contender rather than 13 seasons of 30 win misery. The idea of "the process" is that you can afford to miss on one or two picks because you have collected huge amounts of draft capital. They had good draft capital even after they became good, they just wasted it on players like Tobias Harris but that was after Hinkie was let go.

Also to me it doesnt have to be Hinkie. Just someone that does the rebuild patiently without rushing. At least then theres legit hope for a lot better future instead of hoping we one day get the 8th seed and 0-4 exit even once before its time to blow it up again.
 
#52
If I was guaranteed a similar asset pool, yes I would rather do a one 3-4 year process followed by multiple years as a contender rather than 13 seasons of 30 win misery. The idea of "the process" is that you can afford to miss on one or two picks because you have collected huge amounts of draft capital. They had good draft capital even after they became good, they just wasted it on players like Tobias Harris but that was after Hinkie was let go.

Also to me it doesnt have to be Hinkie. Just someone that does the rebuild patiently without rushing. At least then theres legit hope for a lot better future instead of hoping we one day get the 8th seed and 0-4 exit even once before its time to blow it up again.
I think 4 years of sub 20 wins gets any GM fired. In the case of the Kings who knows what would happen. The arena would be empty during most of those losses. You could lose the fan base, maybe even the franchise.

In the case of Philly they were lucky to get the flawed Stars they have. Simmons has no J and Embiid walks a fine line with injuries. They cycled through a lot of picks to get those two. IMO they had an Alpha and let him get away to Miami. They are not the same team as last year. Is 6th in the East really what you want after all that tanking?

But the Kings have been a losing team for over a decade.

IMO what Petrie did is the best hope. Shrewd team building using the draft, trades and free agency. Vlade has tried to do what Petrie did.

Vlade has had mostly misses in the draft. Fox is looking like a star on the rise. Also there is hope MBIII comes back to close the season strong. Trading for Bogdan was a good move. Bazemore may prove to be a savvy trade as well. I'm hoping Buddy turns it around after the up and down season so far, he is looking better recently. Mr. Holmes is the best free agent acquisition in a long while IMO. Hoping he comes back and picks up where he left off. Ariza became Baze and that may turn out good. Dedmon and Cojo both battle on defense.

So yes even at this point I am hoping for a strong finish to this season. That might be enough to right the ship. If not what happens is up to Vivek.
 
#53
I think 4 years of sub 20 wins gets any GM fired. In the case of the Kings who knows what would happen. The arena would be empty during most of those losses. You could lose the fan base, maybe even the franchise.

In the case of Philly they were lucky to get the flawed Stars they have. Simmons has no J and Embiid walks a fine line with injuries. They cycled through a lot of picks to get those two. IMO they had an Alpha and let him get away to Miami. They are not the same team as last year. Is 6th in the East really what you want after all that tanking?

But the Kings have been a losing team for over a decade.

IMO what Petrie did is the best hope. Shrewd team building using the draft, trades and free agency. Vlade has tried to do what Petrie did.

Vlade has had mostly misses in the draft. Fox is looking like a star on the rise. Also there is hope MBIII comes back to close the season strong. Trading for Bogdan was a good move. Bazemore may prove to be a savvy trade as well. I'm hoping Buddy turns it around after the up and down season so far, he is looking better recently. Mr. Holmes is the best free agent acquisition in a long while IMO. Hoping he comes back and picks up where he left off. Ariza became Baze and that may turn out good. Dedmon and Cojo both battle on defense.

So yes even at this point I am hoping for a strong finish to this season. That might be enough to right the ship. If not what happens is up to Vivek.
I agree with all of these points regarding Vlade. But it's omitting a few things that really slants the decision matrix towards a dismissal/firing/or resignation--Vlade hasn't maximized his assets and his mentality is to win-now.

These variables create a toxic mix of failing to take on salary for draft picks, doing a full tank job when the season was obviously over, saying he's going to develop the youth then acquiring vets, who play in front of the youth. At some point, you need a GM, who's actually going to make moves that will pay off in years 3 and 4. Not moves that tries to thread the needle each season--hoping to do what you say you're trying to do, but also hoping for lightening to strike and the team becoming a winner overnight (like the early 2000 team). He's had three shots (look at the turnover on the roster). It's time for new leadership.
 
#54
I think 4 years of sub 20 wins gets any GM fired. In the case of the Kings who knows what would happen. The arena would be empty during most of those losses. You could lose the fan base, maybe even the franchise.
like in Philly, fans come back when the team is competitive.

In the case of Philly they were lucky to get the flawed Stars they have. Simmons has no J and Embiid walks a fine line with injuries. They cycled through a lot of picks to get those two. IMO they had an Alpha and let him get away to Miami. They are not the same team as last year. Is 6th in the East really what you want after all that tanking?
First of all I'm talking about sixers during their process. I already said that imo Colangelo and Brand didnt do a good job and they could be much better off right now with a better GM. Still with couple of not so good GM's, they are pretty well off right now.

I strongly disagree that its luck, they had multiple bites of the apple. Okafor and Noel failed because they werent good enough, Fultz failed because something happened to him that was basically never seen in this league and Embiid+Simmons worked.

Per: https://fansided.com/2016/06/17/freelance-friday-expected-value-in-the-nba-draft/amp/

They didint get lucky, they were actually almost unlucky. They had two first picks, thats 60% chance to get an all star per pick. They also had 3rd, 3rd, 6th and TONS of other picks. Ending up with two all stars with that type of capital isnt luck, its what the odds suggest you would have and maybe even less than the odds suggest.


But the Kings have been a losing team for over a decade.

IMO what Petrie did is the best hope. Shrewd team building using the draft, trades and free agency. Vlade has tried to do what Petrie did.

Vlade has had mostly misses in the draft. Fox is looking like a star on the rise. Also there is hope MBIII comes back to close the season strong. Trading for Bogdan was a good move. Bazemore may prove to be a savvy trade as well. I'm hoping Buddy turns it around after the up and down season so far, he is looking better recently. Mr. Holmes is the best free agent acquisition in a long while IMO. Hoping he comes back and picks up where he left off. Ariza became Baze and that may turn out good. Dedmon and Cojo both battle on defense.

So yes even at this point I am hoping for a strong finish to this season. That might be enough to right the ship. If not what happens is up to Vivek.
To me one reason Kings have been losing for 13 years is that we never commited to really rebuilding. Getting bunch of 7th ovr picks makes it hard to get these franchise level players. It doesnt help that we've drafted really bad with those picks. The process worked for a reason. You get multiple top 3 picks, you are probably getting All star level players.

To me three 22 win seasons isnt that different from three 33win seasons. Either way we arent good enough. At least if we are doing "the process", we are adding lots of additional draft capital and have our own extremely high picks. That way there is a clear path for a real future success and with that, hope.
 
#55
He’s not yet the highest paid, and only will be for one season, max.
What don't people get this? It isn't just that he's earning the most (or will), but that its A SIGNIFICANT % OF A LIMITED CAP RESOURCE. I really don't care if he's the most paid, second most paid, or third most paid, the problem is that he was paid a LOT of money which will account for a LOT of the cap the team has moving forward and the point in the article was that he has regressed to the point of needing to be brought off the bench, and therefore maybe the front office didn't make the best decision there, among others. That was the point of the article.
 
#56
To me one reason Kings have been losing for 13 years is that we never commited to really rebuilding. Getting bunch of 7th ovr picks makes it hard to get these franchise level players. It doesnt help that we've drafted really bad with those picks. The process worked for a reason. You get multiple top 3 picks, you are probably getting All star level players.

To me three 22 win seasons isnt that different from three 33win seasons. Either way we arent good enough. At least if we are doing "the process", we are adding lots of additional draft capital and have our own extremely high picks. That way there is a clear path for a real future success and with that, hope.
This right here. The Kings draft one good player and immediately try to bring in vets to grab the 8th seed. But to what end? It's what they did when they got Cousins. Immediately thought their rebuild was complete and just needed a couple of vets to get in the playoffs. Who needs draft picks? Kings are going to be in the playoffs before Philly, so they can have our pick, right?

The Kings draft Fox. He turns the corner his 2nd year and they immediately start trading young pieces for vets to try to grab that 8th seed because the rebuild is complete.

The Kings have not been in rebuild mode for 13 years. They've been treading water. Due to lack of patience and vision, they've been trying to do the bare minimum they need to do to get the 8th seed. The focus needs to be on taking steps to build a championship team, and when you come up short, at least you're in the playoffs. Instead we come up short on the 8th seed aspirations and end up with the 7th pick.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#57
What don't people get this? It isn't just that he's earning the most (or will), but that its A SIGNIFICANT % OF A LIMITED CAP RESOURCE. I really don't care if he's the most paid, second most paid, or third most paid, the problem is that he was paid a LOT of money which will account for a LOT of the cap the team has moving forward and the point in the article was that he has regressed to the point of needing to be brought off the bench, and therefore maybe the front office didn't make the best decision there, among others. That was the point of the article.
But he has shown a marked improvement since coming off the bench. You're gonna get hung up on whether he's on the court at the beginning of the game? I think maybe I'll look at where he's standing at the end of the game and what his overall performance/contribution is.