The Kings looking for the next Ben Wallace.

[CaminoChaos]

Anwar Ferguson - C 7-0, 205 (Arkansas) '05, Lonnie Jones - C 7-0, 228 (Ball State) '02, Jamal Sampson - PF 6-11, 235 (California) '02 have all been invited to the Kings training camp. All are 7'0, athletic and little or no have offense skill. After thinking about it for a while it started to dawn on me. The Kings are looking for the next Ben Wallace.

What happened is Petrie invited these three fellows to our traing camp and said "Grab all the rebounds you can get your hands on, block all the shots that come near the hoop and play man to man defense like a mad man and you will be worth alot of money". Petrie says this knowing full well that trading for, signing or even drafting a defensive minded big man like Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler or Theo Ratliff is nearly impossible. Do to the price tag placed on these type of players I feel that Petrie is trying to find a true diamond in the rough. Someone who already has the defensive skills but just needs to be polished a bit on offense by working with players like Miller, Abdur-Rahim and Thomas.

My question to you is: Do you feel this is an appropriate way to aquire a defensive minded big man due to the inflated salaries of these type of players?

Note: Quotes are not those of Geoff Petrie

 

[ONEZERO]

I agree that its nearly impossible to picl one up via trade or free agency, so why not take a good look at these 3 in the hopes one can be a great defensive/rebounding addition? I think we can help them with their offensive troubles.

 

[NoBonus]

I think this is a very appropriate method for picking up a big man... for such a prized asset, a team should pursue all avenues.

 

[hrdboild]

Ben Wallace was an undrafted training camp invite, so he's certainly looking in the right place if he wants the next Ben Wallace to be exactly like the first.

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

This makes a lot of sense, and I hope it works.

I didn't know Ben Wallace was the same way, but that shows its possible to do what you are saying Petrie is trying to do.

*crosses fingers*

 

[Warhawk]

Brad went undrafted too, didn't he? Not the same type of big-man search obviously, but still....

 

[Kings113]

Yes, Brad did go undrafted. As did Udonis Haslem, Reggie Evans, Mo Evans, Mike James, Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Marquis Daniels. As other notables.

I say yeah to the question.

 

[CruzDude]

Appropriate way? It is likely the only way to get a defensive 5 or 4-5 who can help at this stage of the year. I trust and believe in Petrie as the Prof. Dumbeldore of our magical Kings.

 

[Packt]

My question to you is: Do you feel this is an appropriate way to aquire a defensive minded big man due to the inflated salaries of these type of players?

Note: Quotes are not those of Geoff Petrie

To answer the question, no.

These guys are no names with little to no experience, offensively challenged trying to play in an offense oriented system, and playing behind potential All-Stars. Sadly, a lot of things have to go wrong for the team, for these guys to get playing time. Sampson could get minutes behind Miller due to the good games he had last year, but he'd have to beat out Skinner.

 

[SCKingsfan]

I feel like we're left with few legitimate alternatives at this point. Understand that nothing may become of this, but since we seem solidified at the other positions, there's certainly no harm. If they are truly defensive wonders (and I don't know much about these guys) then they can still play a role in championship runs without any real ability to shoot (Rodman, Wallace, etc).

 

[Kings113]

Both Sampson and Skinner can play PF too. A lot of it will go to KT, but still.

 

[Rowdyone]

It's appropriate since that is about our only option without trading one of the nucleus players. I think the comparison to Ben Wallace may be a little ambitious but finding a diamond in the rough of even 80% of him would compliment our bench nicely.

 

[G_M]

It's appropriate since that is about our only option without trading one of the nucleus players. I think the comparison to Ben Wallace may be a little ambitious but finding a diamond in the rough of even 80% of him would compliment our bench nicely.

IMO I don't belive a team would take any of our core players for they type of player we are talking about. It's all market driven and it's much easier to find a prolific scorer than a dominant defender.

I think the Kings are left trying to find a truly unknown player or a reclamation project.

 

[Bricklayer]

These guys are all Ben Wallace STYLE players (if you really stretch it), but I think that's a far cry from saying we are looking for a Ben Wallace amongst borderline scrubbies. Basically we need another big, and the weaknesses among our current bigs (interior defense) are obvious, so as a 5th big man why not get a guy with those traits? Makes sense. But as I mentioned in another thread its mostly an illusion. This guy, whoever it turns out to be, will be facing a nearly impossible task to crack our already overstuffed rotation. So whether he is a shotblocking monster or pansy-*** finesse player is actually pretty irrelevant. Will make very little difference for us on the court. What really counts is shotblocking/defense in the rotation, not sitting on your bench waiting for garbagetime.

These guys are the right type of project players for us given the rest of our roster, but I doubt we have any great hopes for them. As far as was rumored or could be told, we did not appear to even make a run at any of the numerous established "Ben Wallace" type players out there this summer (Chandler, Gadzuric, Dalembert etc.), so it does not appear to have been much of a priority.

 

[Kings113]

I don't think we made a run at them because it was unrealistic given the money they were asking for, and how much their teams wanted to keep them.

I don't think Langhi makes it, Petrie said "getting bigger down low is needed" a number of times in June/July/August. But guys like Chandler or Dalembert weren't in the picture, for obvious reasons. We did try and go after Swift and Lorenzen Wright though, were said "no" to in different ways. I would of dug us getting either of them.

Still think we should go after PJ Brown before training camp, or one of Michael Stewart/Vladimir Stepania/Zendon Hamilton in October/before training camp.

 

[Jkbiker]

I agree with brick that any of the three would be riding the pine except for practices and garbage minutes, But i dont think whether the are big defense guys or finese wimps are irrelevent
This player could really see backup minutes if either Brad or Skinner are injured. If Shareef or KT are injured I feel that RA would shorten the rotation for PF/C to three players with Skinner backing up both the PF and C positions. But if Brad or Skinner goes down I dont see anyone else backing up the Center other than one of these guys. (Please no more Corliss at Center!!!!).

As a backup to Brad or Skinner I would like to see the best Defensive guy of the three come out of camp to fill in since we still seem to have plenty of offensive weapons out there.

With Ronnie signed as third PG and plenty of SG/SF players, this is the weakest area for injury insurance that we really need.

So I guess my answer is that it is appropriate way to get a defensive minded big man that will be a reserve player that will only get minutes if an injury occurs.

 

[tyrant]

The Kings looking for the next Ben Wallace.



good luck finding him

 

[Kings113]

You took that too literally.

 

[Kings113]

With Ronnie signed as third PG and plenty of SG/SF players, this is the weakest area for injury insurance that we really need.

We have two SFs.

Garcia who can likely play there, but isn't his primary spot at all. I don't see him playing too much SF (in spurts), if any. Bonzi will see time there though, I'd think.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Brick is dead on that which ever big gets a roster spot is destined to take the Greg Ostertag seat BEHIND the bench baring of course a plage of Biblical proportions.

 

[Bricklayer]

We have two SFs.

Garcia who can likely play there, but isn't his primary spot at all. I don't see him playing too much SF (in spurts), if any. Bonzi will see time there though, I'd think.

I figure between Corliss, who's best position has always been SF, although obviously he's kind of an odd fit there, and then Shareef who we know can play SF (indeed did for more than half his career), Cisco (too weak, but played SF in college), Bonzi (short, but swings up as needed) and Thomas (who has played there for spots and may or may not be capable of more extended stints), the backup SF position is messy, but mostly covered. Thing is that half of those guys are considerably PFesqe, and Cisco (strength) and Bonzi (height) are much more OGesque. So we've got plenty of bodies who CAN do it, but no real ideal/natural ones. Shareef is the guy who's proven he can play the spot at high level, but of course he's already starting at PF. Maybe if Peja got hurt we could swing him back home to SF and put Thomas at PF or something.

In any case, messy or not, that still looks to be a lot more possibilities than we have at C right now.

 

[Warhawk]

We have two SFs.

Garcia who can likely play there, but isn't his primary spot at all. I don't see him playing too much SF (in spurts), if any. Bonzi will see time there though, I'd think.

True, but I think several guys COULD play there:

Peja
Corliss
Bonzi
Garcia
KT (everyone says he's too small to play the 4 anyways)

So while we only have 2 no. 3's, we also have 3 other guys to cover the position, if necessary, especially in spurts or for matchup reasons.

Edit - OK, Brick beat me to it. And I wasn't counting SAR, but he is in there too. And I do think KT could possibly help out there, too.

 

[Kings113]

Basically what I said except for SAR/KT.

I forgot about SAR being able to play SF still, and KT I heard/read didn't do well there or something.

Basically, we have a lot position-versatile bigger players .

I still think it'd be nice to have a more ideal SF on the roster (Barnes/K. Brown/Daniels/T. Fowlkes/T. Smith (from what I've read, seen a bit on the last four) ), but center depth and insurance is more important.

 

[Bricklayer]

Basically, we have a lot position-versatile bigger players .

I agree that it would be nice to have a "true" SF backup.

What we've basically got is a trio of "bad" tweeners. On the theory that there are "good" tweeners (2/3, 4/5) and then there are "bad" tweeners (1/2, 3/4) with the difference being that the "good" tweeners swing between two positions that require the same sorts of abilities (scoring/shooting/ballhandling at 2/3, power/rebounding/toughness at 4/5) while the "bad" tweeners swing between two positions that are incompatible, from PG (distributor) to OG (scorer), or from SF (scorer) to PF (power).

Reef, Corliss and KT are all "bad" tweeners -- guys who do not really fit smoothly at either forward spot and who's insertion at either spot actually taints your entire team balance one way or the other (you put them at SF and your team abruptly lacks shooting/ballhandling, you put them at PF and it lacks height/toughness/defense). Between them and the "good" tweeners (Bonzi/Cisco, although Bonzi at least really is an OG with versatiltiy not a true a tweener) the position is covered, but they all represent awkward fits that open up holes elsewhere for the team. Only Reef has shown the ability to consistently play SF at a high enough level to truly make up for that, and he's starting elsewhere.

 

[Kings113]

They should add a 6th spot on the floor.

 

[allrightythen]

I agree that it would be nice to have a "true" SF backup.

What we've basically got is a trio of "bad" tweeners. On the theory that there are "good" tweeners (2/3, 4/5) and then there are "bad" tweeners (1/2, 3/4) with the difference being that the "good" tweeners swing between two positions that require the same sorts of abilities (scoring/shooting/ballhandling at 2/3, power/rebounding/toughness at 4/5) while the "bad" tweeners swing between two positions that are incompatible, from PG (distributor) to OG (scorer), or from SF (scorer) to PF (power).

Reef, Corliss and KT are all "bad" tweeners -- guys who do not really fit smoothly at either forward spot and who's insertion at either spot actually taints your entire team balance one way or the other (you put them at SF and your team abruptly lacks shooting/ballhandling, you put them at PF and it lacks height/toughness/defense). Between them and the "good" tweeners (Bonzi/Cisco, although Bonzi at least really is an OG with versatiltiy not a true a tweener) the position is covered, but they all represent awkward fits that open up holes elsewhere for the team. Only Reef has shown the ability to consistently play SF at a high enough level to truly make up for that, and he's starting elsewhere.

I just mentioned this in another thread, but thats kinda the reason I would prefer a Matt Barnes type player backing up Peja, than Corliss (not a knock on Corliss). Barnes is more of a perimeter player and I would think that we are kinda stacked with these tweener guys and I would just as soon have some one that we know where to play.

 

[Rowdyone]

So basically RA has a lot of different options to match up with or create mismatches at 1-3 but after that we're basically at a disadvantage at the 4-5 against the better teams. And there, sportsfans, is the old ball game unless GP can make a significant move to alleviate the disproportionality. Doesn't leave me all warm and fuzzy, more like cold and apprehensive.

 

[Kings113]

I don't think were at a disadvantage against most teams.

The top teams:

Pacers - O'Neal (but I don't know about Foster, I've seen plenty of him, and not basing it on last season (he had that one killer game against us at Conseco, but we won in OT ).
Heat - Shaq
Pistons - yes
Spurs - yes
Nuggets - probably
Suns - Amare
Rockets - no (Yao doesn't kill us every game, and I predict mostly the same)
Dallas - I don't think so (Dirk isn't a defensive monster, obviously will just about always have his offense, and Dampier wasn't too much at all, aside from that goaltend block in Feb. at Arco .)
Cavs - no

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Didn't we have Anwar Furgeson in camp last season too? Skinny guy right? I remember people getting all worked up and excited over his blocked shots. If I am remembering correctly, the guy lasted up to 1-2 games left in preseason.

 

[Kings113]

he did have a couple good pre-season games.