and perhaps that's what they did, although i've never known a sports writer to shy away from the kind of critical send-up that sells papers/earns clicks (unless it runs counter to their preferences). given the way the warriors have been generally received by those who cover nba basketball, i'd say it's much more likely that a great many analysts simply don't want to have to lean in too hard on warriors criticism; they like them too much.
The Kevin Durant "Hot Take" Omnibus thread
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
Because they already won and are a leading title contender without him ever playing for them. They beat a team that had KD on it. But that doesn't discount OKC from having a good chance if they met again.
I really don't know how else to explain it other than the team he just joined has climbed to the top of the mountain without his help. The engine of that team still remains. Other than possibly making them even more dominant, his mere presence doesn't suddenly give them titles hopes that weren't there before. Conversely, he did provide OKC with title hopes that wouldn't be there without him. They didn't get it done, but they had a good chance.
One team needed him to have a legit opportunity. The other doesn't, although they could be even better with him.
In the end , the entire point is that I don't understand how a player of his caliber could feel a whole lot of satisfaction making it slightly easier for the team that has proven they could do it without his help.
OKC is the guy in the weight room that hasn't ever pressed 300 lbs without the spotter significantly pulling up on the bar. GSW is the guy that has pressed 300 lbs before and might only need a slight nudge to do it again. Almost anybody can fill the second role, but only a heavy lifter can fill the first. There's a significant difference between the two.
I really don't know how else to explain it other than the team he just joined has climbed to the top of the mountain without his help. The engine of that team still remains. Other than possibly making them even more dominant, his mere presence doesn't suddenly give them titles hopes that weren't there before. Conversely, he did provide OKC with title hopes that wouldn't be there without him. They didn't get it done, but they had a good chance.
One team needed him to have a legit opportunity. The other doesn't, although they could be even better with him.
In the end , the entire point is that I don't understand how a player of his caliber could feel a whole lot of satisfaction making it slightly easier for the team that has proven they could do it without his help.
OKC is the guy in the weight room that hasn't ever pressed 300 lbs without the spotter significantly pulling up on the bar. GSW is the guy that has pressed 300 lbs before and might only need a slight nudge to do it again. Almost anybody can fill the second role, but only a heavy lifter can fill the first. There's a significant difference between the two.
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Yep, I think you've got it nailed.
As I said, if this move does prove fruitful and he does win a title in this manner, I think it will matter to him one day. Just as it mattered to Kobe when he kept hearing he was Robin to Shaq's Batman. The competitor in him couldn't sit with that. He wanted to prove he was more MJ than Pippen. He wanted to prove he was among the greatest of all time, if not the greatest. As a result, he's now part of that conversation.
KD either doesn't have that same competitiveness or doesn't yet realize that it will matter to him one day.
As I said, if this move does prove fruitful and he does win a title in this manner, I think it will matter to him one day. Just as it mattered to Kobe when he kept hearing he was Robin to Shaq's Batman. The competitor in him couldn't sit with that. He wanted to prove he was more MJ than Pippen. He wanted to prove he was among the greatest of all time, if not the greatest. As a result, he's now part of that conversation.
KD either doesn't have that same competitiveness or doesn't yet realize that it will matter to him one day.
Well, unless they win 73 games and a Championship, the thought will always remain that they could have done it without him, HAVE done it without him. In actuality, what they achieve or don't achieve with him has little bearing on the fact that he totally wimped out. He's a coward in my book, not that that matters in the slightest. Perhaps, he is just a victim of the times and this generation.
I'm really not sure why we have the NBA going forward. Why don't we just let LeBron and Curry pick teams like we do on the playground? There can be two teams, reigning MVP gets first pick, runner up gets second and we skip all this meaningless basketball season bullcrap. Perhaps instead of the lottery, we can ping pong ball for what city they have to play in (I won't use for, since it is apparent no one cares who they play FOR) expand the NBADL to a full 82 game season so they can have new players to pick..... or wait, maybe that's what has already happened.
I'm really not sure why we have the NBA going forward. Why don't we just let LeBron and Curry pick teams like we do on the playground? There can be two teams, reigning MVP gets first pick, runner up gets second and we skip all this meaningless basketball season bullcrap. Perhaps instead of the lottery, we can ping pong ball for what city they have to play in (I won't use for, since it is apparent no one cares who they play FOR) expand the NBADL to a full 82 game season so they can have new players to pick..... or wait, maybe that's what has already happened.
Ok, but similar thoughts were written a few years ago when James and Bosh joined Wade. Things change. People get old, they get injured, they turn out to be not quite as good as we thought. There was quite a bit of worry that "super teams" would start dominating the league when the Heat's trio formed. Since then (six seasons ago) there have been five different franchises that have won a championship.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Warriors won the championship this coming season, or even if they won the one after that. But I'd put the over/under on franchises with championships in the next five years at 2.5 (and I'd take the over). That's no different than most other eras in NBA history.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Warriors won the championship this coming season, or even if they won the one after that. But I'd put the over/under on franchises with championships in the next five years at 2.5 (and I'd take the over). That's no different than most other eras in NBA history.
Maybe I just feel like a little more self-awareness should be injected into the conversation, is all. I don't think that it's a question of fault or victimhood, and I find it hard to imagine that they'd see it that way, either. Like, I also agree that it's a wimpy way to conduct yourself, but I can also admit that my way of thinking is an artifact of a belief system that simply does not apply to the modern athlete. And, probably in less than a generation, it's not going to apply to the modern fan, either.
Frankly, I don't know what we're going to do, when we're all still alive, but we and those of us who consume sports and entertainment the way we do become the minority. AAU was the death of competition, as us dinosaurs understand it; that genie ain't never going back in the bottle. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm ever going to get on board with it: I ****ing hate it. I'm going to gripe, moan and complain about it, all the way until they put me in the ground, but that doesn't change the fact that I am acutely aware that I've become the NBA equivalent of "Get off my lawn!" guy. It's only getting "worse" for those of us who hate what it's become; the rest of them like it just fine. This **** is passing us by.
Frankly, I don't know what we're going to do, when we're all still alive, but we and those of us who consume sports and entertainment the way we do become the minority. AAU was the death of competition, as us dinosaurs understand it; that genie ain't never going back in the bottle. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm ever going to get on board with it: I ****ing hate it. I'm going to gripe, moan and complain about it, all the way until they put me in the ground, but that doesn't change the fact that I am acutely aware that I've become the NBA equivalent of "Get off my lawn!" guy. It's only getting "worse" for those of us who hate what it's become; the rest of them like it just fine. This **** is passing us by.
That move set the precedent, this move enforces it. Yes, there has been a lag and the immediate fears behind LeBrons actions were not initially felt, but I think you see the trickle down effect in play here. Younger players think this is A-OK, 'another step on their journey' What would have been the reaction had Webber decided to join the Lakers during his free agency period? What would we have said about him?
KD can do what he wants. How can I have a problem with that? That doesn't mean I respect the move. As a fan, and very much like the trio got together a few years ago, I feel as a fan like I am being toyed with. This may not make sense to others but I have more respect for a player who earns the ring and doesn't hitch himself to a "call your skilled buddy" plan or as a massively skilled player, joins a team that is already darn near the best if not the best. Whether this makes sense or not, I feel like while he is getting what he wants, I am not. In my view, it cheapens the idea that the ring is won with hard work and team work. The champion has darn near been determined already. What's interesting about that?
I get what your saying, but sometimes there simply are right and wrong ways of doing things. For example, many kids today weren't taught (or enforced) proper manners and don't show respect to their parents or elders in general. Their way of doing things isn't right even though they can do it and it's become their way. I believe it to always be the older generations responsibility to continually try to reinforce and pass on what we have learned. It may not get through to everybody, but you still need to try.
In this case, I realize that we're just a bunch of fans debating and nobody is really listening or caring about what we say. But take a listen to what Charles Barkley said on Mike & Mike today. That's an older generation guy trying to make a point and pass on what he learned to the younger generation of college and NBA players. Many may not agree with him on the subject, but perhaps a few young players out there might take note and remember it if/when a similar situation stares them in the face.
I know Barkley can often be a knucklehead and has many left field opinions, but he did have some interesting and valid points regarding the long list of players from his generation that don't have titles and could have gone the route of teaming up together during the prime of their careers via free agency to "cheat" their way to a title as a "bus rider" rather than the "bus driver". And I do agree with him that it's different when aging players well past their prime try to latch on to a contender versus doing it in the prime of your career when you are a lead dog. Nobody cares about Gary Payton's title in Miami when he was old as dirt. But had he defected via free agency to Houston or Chicago circa 1997, he would have received a lot of criticism for it.
In this case, I realize that we're just a bunch of fans debating and nobody is really listening or caring about what we say. But take a listen to what Charles Barkley said on Mike & Mike today. That's an older generation guy trying to make a point and pass on what he learned to the younger generation of college and NBA players. Many may not agree with him on the subject, but perhaps a few young players out there might take note and remember it if/when a similar situation stares them in the face.
I know Barkley can often be a knucklehead and has many left field opinions, but he did have some interesting and valid points regarding the long list of players from his generation that don't have titles and could have gone the route of teaming up together during the prime of their careers via free agency to "cheat" their way to a title as a "bus rider" rather than the "bus driver". And I do agree with him that it's different when aging players well past their prime try to latch on to a contender versus doing it in the prime of your career when you are a lead dog. Nobody cares about Gary Payton's title in Miami when he was old as dirt. But had he defected via free agency to Houston or Chicago circa 1997, he would have received a lot of criticism for it.
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That's a good point. I just can't believe that the young generation today no longer cares about the value of fighting through adversity because you can clearly tell it matters a whole lot to LeBron when he burst out with emotions and tears when they beat the Warriors.
Winning as the underdog and coming back from a 3-1 deficit. Some will say LeBron was emotional because of the winning for Cleveland factor, but that's only a part of it. You can see guys like JR Smith, Kevin Love, Ty Lue etc. crying and being so so emotional compared to the Warriors win the previous year where they were happy, but certainly not the same when they knew their talent dwarfs the injury depleted Cavs and were expected to win easily.
I think a big part too is the culture now is that if you are a star and you don't win a ring, you will be made fun of. The media has build this era where they constantly compare MJ's 6 to LeBron's 3. Chuck constantly gets made fun of by Shaq on TNT. Robert Horry was clownin T-Mac recently on air about not winning a ring and T-Mac didn't seem to take it very well. It's a situation where great players without rings will always be talked about as "He was great...but.....he didn't get a ring."
No matter if they agree with the "old" thinking or not, the young gen and Durant certainly knows that he would get a lot more respect if he won it by taking down the Warriors and take care of that unfinished business. But he knows it'll be difficult and considering his age, he made the safe decision. The decision that will most likely take him out of the "He was great... but..." category. He know that if he stayed with the Thunder, he would either have the greatest glory or hang around in the Barkley, Malone, Ewing etc. club. He chose to take the middle route which is easier and safer. And for that, it is absolutely fair for fans and critics to say that he wimped out or it was a weak move, however you want to call it.
Yeah, but older generations have passed on all kinds of things that more informed younger people have come to realize is bull****. Without getting explicitly political, we could name all manner of things that were passed down for generations, that reasonable people now look back at and laugh at the notion that anyone ever believed in such things.
Charles Barkley is full of ****. If free agency had existed in the way it does now back in the late 80s/early 90s, he totally would have done it; he forced the teams he played for to trade him twice, once while he was in his prime. The owner of the Sixers didn't wake up one morning like, "Welp, this ain't going nowhere: let me see what I can get for Charles." Moses Malone forced the Rockets to trade him, coming off a year when he won the MVP. Clyde Drexler forced his way out of Portland... the only reason these oldheads didn't do it is because the rules of the CBA at the time didn't allow for him to do it. Barkley is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Charles Barkley is full of ****. If free agency had existed in the way it does now back in the late 80s/early 90s, he totally would have done it; he forced the teams he played for to trade him twice, once while he was in his prime. The owner of the Sixers didn't wake up one morning like, "Welp, this ain't going nowhere: let me see what I can get for Charles." Moses Malone forced the Rockets to trade him, coming off a year when he won the MVP. Clyde Drexler forced his way out of Portland... the only reason these oldheads didn't do it is because the rules of the CBA at the time didn't allow for him to do it. Barkley is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
I agree to a point, as I think it could easily be argued that his trade to the Rockets was sort of the same thing. He was 34 or so, but still a pretty good player and so were Olajuwon and Drexler. And the Rockets had won the title just 2 years earlier. But I think it's more about what Barkley has come to realize in the years since more than it is about what he may have done. That's what he's trying to get across to the youngins.
It's times like these that I wish MJ wasn't an owner that is in the business of attracting players like KD. If he didn't have a vested interest, I think he'd be speaking out about these types of things which would carry a lot more weight, IMO.
It's times like these that I wish MJ wasn't an owner that is in the business of attracting players like KD. If he didn't have a vested interest, I think he'd be speaking out about these types of things which would carry a lot more weight, IMO.
Blame Joe Lacob for orchestrating this. He saw the NBA took out one of his players to give some life to the Cavs with them up 3-1 which led to a Game 7. We all know anything goes in Game 7's and Warriors fell short. Now even if Silver suspends either one of the Warriors he's still have 3 stars left. Lol! I guess they'll change their motto from Strength in Numbers to Strength in Stars.
