The European Soccer(Football) Thread (merged)

BritishColumbia said:
I got your point BUT .... every team is different. It is like bashing the Yankees because they are so rich, so successful, so powerful. Yes, Real Madrid is like NYY. They generate a lot of profit, they have money to buy stars. However, I completely disagree with you that players go to Real just to get some cash. IT IS NOT TRUE! You are so subjective. Real is not a fat wallet - it is a super club with unrivaled winning record. There is no team in Europe that can beat Real's glamor and chicness. EPL is the best league now - bar none. However, Real, Barca, Milan, Juventus have a special aura. And I think it is safe to say that Real Madrid is the top team among the Big 4.

You say Barca is better because they invest in youth development instead of paying a lot of money for players that other teams produced ... I do not think there is a rule that says that teams must do it in order to be cool. Every team has a different strategy and does what is best for them. Developing players is a one way but not the only way. Barca also buys expensive players, so what? You cannot say that one team is better than the other because it has more local products in its squad. In Albania, 99% of players are local ones and it does not make them more likable or just better.
Shevchenko from Ukraine was a symbol of Milan, Ibrahomovich is the man in Inter, Kaka and Ronaldo will be the key players for Real and I can continue it. Legionaries often are the main components in superclubs and it is ok. They play for Real, it is not a National team. It is a club and if it takes to bring 11 players from overseas or other teams in Spain to win the title, Real will do it. It is not about developing players, it is about winning the title. It is Real's motto.
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What about the tapping up of players? It is beyond a disgrace. They are the ONLY team in the world that do it to such an extreme point.

Look, I understand what you're saying. RM is one of the biggest clubs in the world, probably the second biggest after Man United. That doesn't mean they're likable to everyone. Obviously alot of people do like them, but I don't. They have no respect for other clubs and I really hate that about them.

You mentioned Real, Barca, Milan and Juve as four teams with a special aura. Do you think they're the biggest 4 clubs in the world? United are arguably the biggest in the world, and there is absolutely no way Milan or Juve are up there with them in terms of popularity and success. Serie A is struggling and Milan are the best team in it, but they wouldn't, IMO, be a top 4 club in the EPL if they were in it. Certainly not top 3. Juve definitely wouldn't be.

United have won 2 EPL titles, a CL, and got to the final of the CL in the last 2 years. Currently the biggest team in the world. Of course it is going to be difficult to replace Ronnie and Tevez, but it can be done.

I am not saying every team has to rely on their youth. However, most teams at least make an attempt to do it. It says alot about Madrid that they won't invest in young players. They are simply not able to develop talent in the way clubs such as Barca and United can. IMO, it does make a difference. Any true fan loves to see homegrown talent blossom. It is far more satisfying than spending ridiculous amounts of money on someone elses players. Madrid don't care about youth. Of course it's not a national team, but I fail to see your point.

Just for the record, I still think Barca have a better team in the La Liga than RM. I think Messi/Iniesta/Xavi/Henry/Eto'o > Ronaldo/Kaka/Benzema/VDV/Schneider.
 
Sac.1989 said:
Owen signed for Utd yesterday.
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Yeah, not sure what to think. He hasn't been brilliant at Newcastle, but then again, they're a terrible team and he had no service. He had his injury problems too. I guess you can't go wrong with a free transfer. If he works out, great, and if he doesn't, no loss.
 
Dime Dropper said:
You mentioned Real, Barca, Milan and Juve as four teams with a special aura. Do you think they're the biggest 4 clubs in the world? United are arguably the biggest in the world, and there is absolutely no way Milan or Juve are up there with them in terms of popularity and success. Serie A is struggling and Milan are the best team in it, but they wouldn't, IMO, be a top 4 club in the EPL if they were in it. Certainly not top 3. Juve definitely wouldn't be.

United have won 2 EPL titles, a CL, and got to the final of the CL in the last 2 years. Currently the biggest team in the world. Of course it is going to be difficult to replace Ronnie and Tevez, but it can be done.
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Yes, I do think that Real, Barca, Milan and Juve are the world biggest football clubs. I am not talking about today or even yesterday. Historically, they are the biggest ones. It has nothing to do with Seria A's quality now.
Like, in my life time, MU has been the mighty force in England but historically, Liverpool probably is the biggest club in England (taking into consideration their success in Europe).

In my personal ranking, MU is the 6th All time franchise after Real, Milan, Juve, Barcelona and Liverpool. And notice, I put MU higher than Bayern and I am German.
 
BritishColumbia said:
Yes, I do think that Real, Barca, Milan and Juve are the world biggest football clubs. I am not talking about today or even yesterday. Historically, they are the biggest ones. It has nothing to do with Seria A's quality now.
Like, in my life time, MU has been the mighty force in England but historically, Liverpool probably is the biggest club in England (taking into consideration their success in Europe).

In my personal ranking, MU is the 6th All time franchise after Real, Milan, Juve, Barcelona and Liverpool. And notice, I put MU higher than Bayern and I am German.
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You are talking strictly about success though, which doesn't define the worlds biggest clubs (I guess there is no definition, only opinions).

I would have to seriously question the knowledge of someone who thinks that Liverpool, Juve and Milan are bigger (ie better, more popular, etc) than Manchester United. I don't mean you, I mean other people, because I can see you define the biggest clubs as the most successful.

History is great, but clubs are not judged by what they did 20 and 30 years ago.
 
Dime Dropper said:
You are talking strictly about success though, which doesn't define the worlds biggest clubs (I guess there is no definition, only opinions).

I would have to seriously question the knowledge of someone who thinks that Liverpool, Juve and Milan are bigger (ie better, more popular, etc) than Manchester United. I don't mean you, I mean other people, because I can see you define the biggest clubs as the most successful.

History is great, but clubs are not judged by what they did 20 and 30 years ago.
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Obviously, it is only my personal opinion and I mentioned that several times. We all have different templates for that. I still think that football clubs should be judged by their success throughout the history. Is it a disputable way to do it? Yes, it is but this is how I feel and I personally feel that this is the best way to do it because otherwise we can fall easily into the temptation of using the hype ranking (last 3-5 years) where Chelsea is the 2nd best in EPL and Internazionale is the one in Italy.
 
To add my 2 cents on why US isn't as thrilled on futbol as other countries in the world, I think TV coverage also has something to do with it. I lived in China for 20 some years and we get the major European league coverage on basic cable. I been living in the US for 8 years and the only futbol I've watched were the UEFA Final 4/Final and the World Cup. If you want to watch European leagues' regular season you'll have to buy extra channels. Compare that to the NBA, NFL, or the NHL, you can see at least 2,3 matches a week with just basic cable. (You can watch most of the major NFL matches, Playoffs and Superbowl without cable)

Also, the American version of ESPN is also different than the ESPN from other part of the world. American ESPN don't ever talk about futbol/soccer unless it's huge.
 
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Double-K said:
To add my 2 cents on why US isn't as thrilled on futbol as other countries in the world, I think TV coverage also has something to do with it. I lived in China for 20 some years and we get the major European league coverage on basic cable. I been living in the US for 8 years and the only futbol I've watched were the UEFA Final 4/Final and the World Cup. If you want to watch European leagues' regular season you'll have to buy extra channels. Compare that to the NBA, NFL, or the NHL, you can see at least 2,3 matches a week with just basic cable. (You can watch most of the major NFL matches, Playoffs and Superbowl without cable)

Also, the American version of ESPN is also different than the ESPN from other part of the world. American ESPN don't ever talk about futbol/soccer unless it's huge.
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There is plenty of soccer on TV here (not on basic cable, but still..). Few channels dedicated to soccer. GolTV, Fox Soccer Channel, ESPN Deportes, Setanta. Plus any coverage ESPN and ESPN2. While they cost extra, most of them are part of sports packages that include other channels.
 
haha the thread is near-dead when im not here :P

anywayz... i think manchester united gonna suprize everyone next year and will get only 5th place at the brclays premier league.. donnu y but this is what i feel :P
 
Manchester United:

2 EPL titles.

1 CL title, and 1 final in the last 2 years.

As was previously stated in this thread.

Sir Alex= greatest manager ever

Talk about history all you want, but Manchester United is currently the most popular, celebrated, and successful football team in the world.

Period.

Madrid is great at assembling talent, but how did the galactico thing work out last time?

Zizu
Becks
Carlos
Raul
Figo
Ronaldo (SR)
Iker

Its not just the talent. Its the entire program, from management on down that matters.

Manchester United = Greatest team of the millenium (so far)
 
As far as soccer in the US, its a long drawn out debate. I have fought the battle for years, and I honestly feel it comes down to lack of talent in the US.

Marcos Breton was on my show the other day and we discussed the idea of having the EPL move to the US for 10 years. Both of us agreed that football would catch on.

Watch the world cup next summer. If the US does ANYTHING in that tournament, there will be soccer fever everywhere out here (for 2 weeks).

When people say that soccer is boring, I equate that to when people tell me baseball is boring. Its just simply a lack of understanding of the game. Before anyone says "I understand the game, don't call me ignorant", there's a difference between understanding, and UNDERSTANDING.

Knowing the situations going into the game, who's hot, who's injured. Any smack or rivalries on the line, plus each team's place in the tables.

Watching as one team gains the upper hand on the other, as the offense develops from a defensive play. Soccer is truly like waves in the ocean, the tide turns from moment to moment, and if you know the situations well enough, you can often see EXACTLY when a goal is coming.

Americans have become lazy and short attention-span peoples. Basketball has scoring every few seconds, slam dunks, etc. Football has heavy hits, lots of scoring (usually), and tons of huge plays. Even baseball, the pastime, has largely evolved into slap hitters getting on base and waiting for some 250 pound roid freak to bonk a 3 run blast. Small ball is effectively dead until playoff time.

Soccer takes patience. A nil-nil game is the equivalent many times of a pitchers duel (and I love pitchers duels, but most casual fans do not). When a goal happens, it is many times the equivalent of a walk off home run, a buzzer beater, etc. Soccer fans appreciate it more because we know that it may not happen again in the game.

Plus, the setup of the leagues.....you have your league title, the UEFA cup, Champions League, Community Shield, etc. So many mini cups interspersed with the regular league title, imagine that happening during the regular NBA season! I would love it!!

And we cannot forget the beauty of relegation.....

Imagine that at the end of the season, the Pirates, Royals, and Orioles all finished at the bottom of the MLB standings. How great would it be if they all were triple A teams next year, and had to work their way back through the minors to reach the top-flight MLB league the following year?

Obviously, the minor league set up here is quite different, it wouldnt work, but in many soccer leagues that's EXACTLY what happens. Teaches teams to stay competitive.

That's my little rant. If someone has the opinion that soccer is boring, I feel bad for them. Of course that is their right, but the more things that get me sitting on my couch for appointment viewing in sports, the better. The more teams I get to root for and are passionate about, the better life is to me.

Just my .02
 
carmichaeldave said:
That's my little rant. If someone has the opinion that soccer is boring, I feel bad for them. Of course that is their right, but the more things that get me sitting on my couch for appointment viewing in sports, the better. The more teams I get to root for and are passionate about, the better life is to me.

Just my .02
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Don't feel badly for me. I have NFL football, I have basketball ...and I have "Jesse James is a Dead Man" and "1000 Ways to Die" courtesy of SPIKE-TV. I'd rather watch paint dry or pine needles fall than be forced to watch soccer.

But in a bigger sense, I think it's actually a GOOD thing people don't all like the same sports. If they did, we wouldn't have the variety currently available to sports fans the world over. In fact, if everyone had liked Mongolian Enemy Head Polo, we most likely wouldn't have cricket or soccer or anything else. ;)
 
carmichaeldave said:
As far as soccer in the US, its a long drawn out debate. I have fought the battle for years, and I honestly feel it comes down to lack of talent in the US.

Marcos Breton was on my show the other day and we discussed the idea of having the EPL move to the US for 10 years. Both of us agreed that football would catch on.

Watch the world cup next summer. If the US does ANYTHING in that tournament, there will be soccer fever everywhere out here (for 2 weeks).

When people say that soccer is boring, I equate that to when people tell me baseball is boring. Its just simply a lack of understanding of the game. Before anyone says "I understand the game, don't call me ignorant", there's a difference between understanding, and UNDERSTANDING.

Knowing the situations going into the game, who's hot, who's injured. Any smack or rivalries on the line, plus each team's place in the tables.

Watching as one team gains the upper hand on the other, as the offense develops from a defensive play. Soccer is truly like waves in the ocean, the tide turns from moment to moment, and if you know the situations well enough, you can often see EXACTLY when a goal is coming.

Americans have become lazy and short attention-span peoples. Basketball has scoring every few seconds, slam dunks, etc. Football has heavy hits, lots of scoring (usually), and tons of huge plays. Even baseball, the pastime, has largely evolved into slap hitters getting on base and waiting for some 250 pound roid freak to bonk a 3 run blast. Small ball is effectively dead until playoff time.

Soccer takes patience. A nil-nil game is the equivalent many times of a pitchers duel (and I love pitchers duels, but most casual fans do not). When a goal happens, it is many times the equivalent of a walk off home run, a buzzer beater, etc. Soccer fans appreciate it more because we know that it may not happen again in the game.

Plus, the setup of the leagues.....you have your league title, the UEFA cup, Champions League, Community Shield, etc. So many mini cups interspersed with the regular league title, imagine that happening during the regular NBA season! I would love it!!

And we cannot forget the beauty of relegation.....

Imagine that at the end of the season, the Pirates, Royals, and Orioles all finished at the bottom of the MLB standings. How great would it be if they all were triple A teams next year, and had to work their way back through the minors to reach the top-flight MLB league the following year?

Obviously, the minor league set up here is quite different, it wouldnt work, but in many soccer leagues that's EXACTLY what happens. Teaches teams to stay competitive.

That's my little rant. If someone has the opinion that soccer is boring, I feel bad for them. Of course that is their right, but the more things that get me sitting on my couch for appointment viewing in sports, the better. The more teams I get to root for and are passionate about, the better life is to me.

Just my .02
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Whoa, ground on which I agree with you CD. Soccer is the least boringest of sports actually once you do have an understanding of what's actually going on. I don't spend much time feeling sorry for people who don't get it. I feel sorry for those who hate it and spend energy demeaning people (meaning the rest of the world) who worship it. Sorta like my feelings about the people who demean the WNBA or women's sports in general. To each their own, but please stop chastizing people for liking it or for it existing or getting media coverage or broadcast space.

There's an audience for soccer in the US as evidenced by the crowds at the Gold Cup matches and as the European clubs travel stateside. Will it rival the NFL, NBA, MLB et al...probably not. The MLS is a nice substitute, but it has nothing on the international clubs and I agree it's that talent that could push the sport to another level in this country. Yes, that AND the Nat'l team doing anything next year in South Africa.
 
carmichaeldave said:
Talk about history all you want, but Manchester United is currently the most popular, celebrated, and successful football team in the world. Period.
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VERY arguable!! One of the most popular ones - Yes! The one? I do not think so. In Britain, MU is the most popular and celebrated club (again, arguably) but in continental Europe Real and Barca are bigger. I'd say that in traditional football regions (Europe and South America) Italian and Spanish superclubs are more popular than EPL powerhouses. In countries like China, Indonesia and similar ones in Asia and probably in the US, MU is the most popular club because they have mostly fresh fans and therefore they are bangwagoners - they support best teams at the present time. And yes, history is important in football; it is not about now. You can relegate Juventus to Seria B (happened only several years ago) but it is still the most popular team in Italy. Bangwagoning is not popular among traditional football fans.
 
BritishColumbia said:
...... therefore they are bangwagoners - they support best teams at the present time. And yes, history is important in football; it is not about now. You can relegate Juventus to Seria B (happened only several years ago) but it is still the most popular team in Italy. Bangwagoning is not popular among traditional football fans.
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dude. family site.
 
Anyone see Madrid versus Shamrock Rovers? The Galacticos didn't look so good! Had alot of possession but didn't create many good chances. In fact, Rovers could have easily gone ahead a few times.

Benzema was RM's best player on the night.

Of course there was no Kaka, and it is only a meaningless pre-season game, but I stand by my earlier prediction that Barca are a better team and it shows that not everything will be so peachy for Madrid.

BTW, for the record, I think Ronaldo is going to cement himself as the best player in the world in the next couple seasons. Messi is a better dribbler but Ronaldo has so many more weapons.
 
I was surprised to see so many Mexicans fans .. I assume most of them are Americans of Mexican decent. Otherwise it was the biggest guest crowd I have ever seen.
 
33877_news.jpg


Legendary guy and coach!!! Rest in peace, Sir Bobby Robson!
 
Rest in peace robson.




yestrday Espanol played against Liverpool in the first match ever in their new stadium

espanol ISRAELI new striker which they bought from Chelsea scored 2 gaols and brought espanol and hostoric win 3-0!!! on liverpool.
 
I know this thread is about European football but is anybody gonna watch Mexico-USA at the Azteca?

I usually do not watch Central and North American football but this time it is gonna be hot and interesting.
 
The ChampionsLeague Playoff Qualifation Draw ---
fhiodnj0adjz.jpg


some strong teams arnt gonna parcticipate this year :|
but atleast theres an israeli team which gonna qualifited (Maccabi Haifa)
 
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