The Cousins Chemistry Concern

Jerichoholic

Jerichoholic

Bench
One issue that has seemed to come up since the season ended for us has been the effect that DeMarcus Cousins is having on his teammates on the court and in the lockerroom and not in a good way. It hasn't seemed to be discussed much here so I thought I would get a gauge on the concern that everyone has about this.

We know that this issue is very real, it has already been brought up by Michael Malone, PDA, Grant Napier, and even Jason Thompson. In a recent interview Michael Malone said that he really doesn't envision Cousins becoming a leader, but at the very least he can't be a poor influence on his teammates and he needs to continue to work on it. Grant Napier has talked about how Cousins routinely glares at, talks down to, and even screams at his younger teammates like McLemore and McCallum for taking shots the feels should be his. We've seen on numerous occasions how Thomas has grown annoyed by Cousins' antics. I also thought it was very revealing on how Jason Thompson openly said that he wasn't sure if he wanted to be back here or not. It was interesting to him how so many of his former teammates who are no longer here were so glad to be away from here. He didn't specify as to the main reasons, but I think we all know who he was alluding to. All of these things I've just mentioned are all public, who knows of all the things that have gone on that are not public.

In the last offseason there was a lot of debate on this web site about whether we should give Cousins his contract extension or not, although if I remember correctly the vast majority thought that he should get it, including myself. With his statistics and his potential to make players better with his abilities he did better than even I could have hoped. He really has become perhaps the best big man in the league right now. However it's not his abilities that are in question. He can make his teammates better if he wants to, but at this point he may actually be making his teammates worse with his attitude. Chemistry is a delicate thing, ask the Indiana Pacers. A team full of talent can fall with even the slightest form of poor attitude. A lot of people are talking about the Pacers right now because it is not a normal thing for this to happen to a team like that. Nobody talks about the Kings because this losing is normal for us.

The question I have is that even with all of Cousins' amazing talents, is he actually holding this team back with his poor attitude? Is he the reason that players come here, tend to have the worst years of their careers, then leave and become good again? I'm not sure where I stand on this yet, but I am definitely concerned.
 
Jerichoholic said:
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I also thought it was very revealing on how Jason Thompson openly said that he wasn't sure if he wanted to be back here or not. It was interesting to him how so many of his former teammates who are no longer here were so glad to be away from here. He didn't specify as to the main reasons, but I think we all know who he was alluding to.

.................................

The question I have is that even with all of Cousins' amazing talents, is he actually holding this team back with his poor attitude? Is he the reason that players come here, tend to have the worst years of their careers, then leave and become good again? I'm not sure where I stand on this yet, but I am definitely concerned.
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Jason Thompson has been jerked around his whole time in Sacramento. He has numerous legitimate reasons to not want to remain. I wouldn't be so sure that Cousin is what he is alluding to.

As far as other players being glad to be gone, the organization HAD been toxic for some time and it will take some time for it to totally dissipate.
 
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We could ask Dwight Howard how much he liked playing with Kobe. Or for that matter how much Shaq & Kobe liked playing with each other. And yet Bryant won 3 rings with O'Neal and two more after Shaq forced his way out of LA.

Not every great player is a great teammate. I think Cousins has improved and I think he'll continue to learn to control himself better but he's fiery and (from what I've seen and heard) moody b0th on and off the court. He's a mercurial talent in every sense. But here's the big thing - everything is made worse when you're on a losing team.

Quite honestly I don't think chemistry leads to wins - I think wins lead to chemistry. And the same is true of losses.

I'm not saying I doubt the assertion, but when are you referring to Thomas growing annoyed by Cousins' antics? We know for certain that Jason Thompson was annoyed by IT's "antics" when he failed to pass to him on a fast break leading to a turnover. I'm not trying to pin anything on Thomas, just pointing out that such instances are both example of and explanation for a lack of chemistry.

DeMarcus Cousins is not a natural leader. And while he's made strides in that area he clearly doesn't "get it" in terms of interactions with refs, media, opposing players etc. It's how he's wired and it won't change. And I think he will be a net negative on team chemistry, especially as the team loses. But it really sounds like you want to pin all of the team's issues on DMC.

Which former teammates were so glad to be away from here? And if there are some, is that because they left a rudderless, small market team that won 29 games or simply to be away from DeMarcus?

I think players have played better after leaving the Kings because they got used in more appropriate roles. John Salmons shouldn't be starting. Period. Not at SF and not at SG, but he still has some value off the bench. I don't think Greivis Vasquez should be a starting PG either. Jimmer didn't exactly light it up after leaving. Neither did Chuck Hayes or Luc Mbah a Moute. Guys may not like playing with Cousins but I find it hard to believe that his attitude would bring down their level of play. These are professional athletes playing for their next multimillion dollar contract and I don't see them struggling because the team's franchise big man is grumpy and unpleasant. Now, a poorly assembled roster, lack of a consistent offensive system, franchise in flux etc I certainly could see that bringing their numbers.

We'll see how this offseason goes and how the team plays next season. I'm guessing if PDA does his job (and I have my doubts) and the win total increases significantly then somehow Cousins and his "chemistry issues" won't be much of a topic of conversation.
 
Just to be clear about one thing up front, I'm in no way pinning all of this losing on Cousins. The fact that we have any wins at all is probably because Cousins is here. There are many issues here and I'm hoping PDA isn't one of them, I have my doubts as well, we will see. I'm just saying that the goal is to eventually become an elite team and I'm asking the question, is Cousins going to hold us back from achieving that?

Now I also thought about the other players you brought up such as Shaq, Kobe, and could even be said about Jordan at times. Here's the thing though, Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq, and Jordan had Pippen. If the Kings somehow manage to get themselves another superstar or even all-star level player then I'm sure things will take care of themselves. That is the easy answer. Are you confident that we can get such a player? If not then this team will have to be built around the one star that we have and that's Cousins. Do you think a team can be built around Cousins if he maintains this current attitude?
 
Chicago drafted Pippen after drafting Jordan. OKC/Seattle drafted Westbrook (and Harden & Ibaka) after drafting Durant. The Spurs drafted Ginobili and Parker after drafting Tim Duncan. The Blazers drafted Lillard and Batum after drafting Aldridge.

Most teams get their two stars through the draft. The exceptions are teams like the Lakers (who traded Vlade to draft Kobe and signed Shaq as a FA) and the Heat who had three stars agree to team up. Sacramento isn't a big market, sexy locale or a playoff team with cap room and a winning history (such as Houston with Dwight) so getting a star via free agency or a due to a player forcing a trade here isn't going to happen. It will have to come from the draft. And this is a good draft to get lucky in.

Should they stay I think Rudy Gay is an ideal third option and I think IT is a perfect sixth man. I even think JT is a prototypical 3rd big since he can defend both spots and knows his role. For that matter the team nearly played .500 ball with the main cogs healthy this season. If they can just maintain the status quo I think this team will improve significantly (barring major injuries) just from having a full training camp together. Add in improvement from Cousins, Thomas, McLemore, McCallum and even Williams and they could be knocking on the playoff door if things go right. Should PDA strike gold in the draft then yeah, I absolutely think the team could be built around Cousins and successful.

The Kings are a franchise that has been mired in losing since before Cousins was drafted and has had no stability and constant threats of relocation & upheaval. I'd be pretty angry too. But DeMarcus hasn't tried to whine his way out of town. He's stayed committed to turning things around here. So, yeah, he has some attitude issues. He also has an attitude that makes it possible to build around him.

Cousins isn't going to hold the Kings back from achieving that. He's going to be PART of that. Cousins isn't perfect but he's the right piece. Malone looks like he might be the right piece as does Vivek. The question on my mind is whether D'Alessandro is the right piece. Because the ball is in his court now.

Fixing this team doesn't have anything to do with Cousins' attitude. It has only to do with PDA doing his job. And if he does, and things start turning around, I think the narrative of Cousins as "talented but troubled head case" will finally fade in favor of what has been the true story for the last two seasons - Cousins as all-star and franchise player. And the Kings as up and comers.
 
the kings have been a team without veteran leadership on the court for the entirety of demarcus cousins' career thus far. they've employed veteran players, of course, but mostly of the silent variety, and none who've had a major impact on the win/loss column. that said, until there is a team around DMC that's worth rooting for, rather than a collection of disparate parts and "flexible pieces," i wouldn't make much of "the cousins chemistry concern."

personally, i didn't see much evidence of this "poor attitude" across the course of the season. cousins backslid into immaturity from time to time, but for the most part, he was a model citizen on and off the court, and by doing his best to stay focused on improving, he had a career year. his "transgressions" strike me as no more worth getting worked up over than those of a great many of the nba's other star talents (who likewise complain at the refs and earn technical fouls). but cousins still needs help; so i say bring in veterans with winning pedigrees, stop praying that every 19-year-old you draft will deliver you to the promised land, actually commit to the defensive side of the ball, and give your team time to grow under a single head coach...

if cousins doesn't respond well to that level of stability, then you reassess whether or not he's "holding the team back." but you certainly don't allow yourself to become paranoid that cousins isn't gelling with a roster that's been as erratic and in-flux as the kings' have been since the new regime took over. well more than half the team has turned over within the last year, and more than half of those new faces arrived mid-season. despite so much change, we've seen plenty of evidence that demarcus cousins and rudy gay--a legitimate veteran talent--have been developing a workable chemistry. they've made each other better already. to maximize his efficiency, rudy needs to play alongside a dominant first option. and given that he's ready to win now, demarcus needs to play with talent that doesn't have to learn on the job...
 
I don't watch every game but it sure feels like Cousins "difficult" reputation is more reputation than earned. Sure he is hot headed and makes mistakes, so does darling of the NBA Blake Griffin. The culture of this franchise has been on a steady turn downwards since Vlade left. Seems like we've turned the corner and are moving in the right direction and it is going to take an infusion of players, including a vet leader like Vlade who can mentor some of the young guys while representing the whole team as a consummate pro. Hopefully there is a guy out there unappreciated by his team or who is cast aside to sign one of the big $$$ guys.
 
??? I guess I must have missed all the articles, etc. that point the finger at Cousins as continuing to be a problem. He's done an incredible job of showing growth and maturity. It seemed to me the real "lightbulb" moment came in February.

So, is Cousins holding the team back with his bad attitude? Since I don't buy the hypothesis of him having a "bad attitude," I don't see how Cousins could be "holding the team back."
 
Jerichoholic said:
Do you think a team can be built around Cousins if he maintains this current attitude?
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Okay, I just saw this. Please define "current attitude" as it relates to Cousins because I think there's a major difference of opinion brewing here on what that means.
 
Frankly, Boogie is the least of our concerns. If we don't turn this around in the near future, him wanting to leave town will be a major concern but as this team stands right now, he's so far down the totem pole I don't know why people keep bringing him up.

We need:
-a new starting PG who's a plus defender and looks to move the rock
-help at the SG position as Ben is not ready to start for a playoff team next year
-get Rudy to re-sign and if not, we've got an enormous issue of finding a 2nd option
-get a defensive PF to put next to Cuz or C and let Cuz play at PF(not ideal, but could work)
-3&D shooters need to be added to this team, 2-3 of them as our spacing is terrible
-an improved offensive system where we're not seeing nearly as many quick and wild shots and Cuz is the clear focal point, along with Rudy or whomever our #2 option is next year. More movement/cutting/misdirection off Cuz. Better spacing.
-an improved defensive system, although that goes along with acquiring defensive talent. I don't care who our coach is, if your options for much of the year to start in the backcourt were IT/Ben/MT, you won't be a good defensive team. We could use some athleticism up front too.
-vet leadership. Need more of it. Rudy would add some if he stays. Reggie adds some. Then there's a steep falloff. We need more guys who've been there, done it and can teach our guys how to win, how to pull out close games, how to prepare correctly, etc, and that does make a difference. Countless athletes and elite NBA players have pointed to mentors who helped them early on. Even a great player like Webber needed Vlade to some extent.

As soon as we start correcting a number of those issues, more will see how of little concern Cuz is and how fortunate we are to have the guy. BTW, put most great players in Cuz's position here and they too would be pissed. Most agree Cle did a terrible job surrounding Lebron with fitting talent, Minn has done a terrible job surrounding Love with fitting talent and Orl did a terrible job surrounding D12 with fitting talent. Right now as it stands, all did a better job than we have surrounding Cuz with fitting talent. Pressure is on to fix that.
 
Tetsujin said:
And the strawman of the year award goes to...
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Cousins.

There were so many assumptions based on rumor based on who knows what that I am not going to take part in this discussion. I didn't see many facts to deal with and I'm not going to take the time to challenge each assumption. There are enough people here willing to play the game.

I want this team to win and as of now, Cousins is the center of the answer as to how to do it. I think Rudy is another part of it and would make a nice balance to Cousins in a lot of ways. Whatever Boogie's problems are IN REALITY, it is up to management to try to solve the problems.
 
I'm not totally dismissive of the concern, but do not agree at all with the overall tone and conclusions drawn by the OP here.

For me, I watch Cousins all the time out there, watching for demeanor and interaction. He's the key tot he team, so oncourt I am always watching to see if he's getting upset. You can see when he gets frustrated with the team, and it was actually why I was glad the season was wrapping up because he was increasingly pointing his frustration at teamamtes who could not hit open shots, blew defensive rotations etc. He and Rudy had words a few times. Felt bad for Reggie in one late game when Cuz got pissed at him for a 3sec call. Reggie is not perfect, but he does give you his all out there.

That said, I obviously only have vague ideas what goes on in the lockerroom itself. And no, I don't recall Malone saying anything like "Cuz will never be a leader". In fact I actually think he's got some natural leadership traits. Fiery, competitive, and demanding are not bad places to start. He also has charisma when not angry and is smart. Kevin Martin could never be a leader. Ben McLemore will never be a leader. Cuz...might be. Maybe one day. Its just that those traits are Just swallowed up in some natural pain in the ass traits. He's greatly calmed down the problematic losing his head at the refs etc. stuff, and that's critical. because that takes him out of the negative column, where you as a leader have to spend your leadership points trying to keep him steady and focused. But right now mostly its like a gf/bf with a temper problem, who can't contain themselves in a fight and lashes out saying awful things that you can't take back. That is hard to live with longterm. Nonetheless, you know what? Michael Jordan used to physically hit teammates in practice who ****ed up (and I'd like to see his reaction if a rookie didn't pass him the ball). Barkley ran down his own guys. Kobe did so more famously. Wilt was so self involved he forced his entire team to start practice in the afternoon so he wouldn't have to wake up early after nights of debauchery. Ewing was moody and selfish. Lots and lots of the greats have been pricks of one sort or the other, but they still have been greats. Cousins is getting better. But it underscores again why I want a stable veteran structure around him if possible. No more chaos. Just a smattering of incompetent kids. Get winners, people who know what they are about. I suspect that winning and a winning culture will cure much of what still ails the Cousins situation.
 
As long as he plays unselfish on the court (much better this year) everything should be fine, end of the day if someone is being annoying off the court/practice you can live with it if they are good teammates on it as far as sharing the ball and giving effort. I'm more worried about Rudy/IT from a chemistry point of view.
 
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