Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/cousins-happy-moment-not-satisfied
God, Boogie seems so relieved to finally be on a not-sucky-team
God, Boogie seems so relieved to finally be on a not-sucky-team
The Boogie Man
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
K
KingMilz
Guest
Just madness from Cousins when he's using that half hook it's over for anyone and everyone.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Still there is a difference when sgooting a half hook over a frontcourt of Hill+Allen or over guys like Bogut/Ezeli with athletic wings flying in to help out.
The best part of this january to me is, that we seem to have found the right balance between 3's, drives from the outside (mostly when bringing the ball up the court himself, which is new and reminds more of the Karl stretch of last season, when Boogie was handling a lot) and post up plays. Boogie is way more patient in everything he does. I think he finally got comfortable with his role in Karl's system.
Can't be. I don't see his name on the third list.Is this good?
Kings_on_the_RiSE
G-League
Better late than never.
King Baller
All-Star
Cousins must have finally have lost those few pounds that were holding him back
jcwkings
All-Star
Rondo will be the biggest all star snub in a while. I'm sure legends like Stockton, Magic, Payton, Kidd watch him and smile being the last one of their kind and the rest of the league being converted SG's. Rondo and Paul are really the last two great floor generals left in the league.
We have two high impact 7 footers starting and a pass first floor general, so hipster man.
We have two high impact 7 footers starting and a pass first floor general, so hipster man.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I would have to put in a slight word for Rubio as well having a big impact for what few wins the Wolves pull off.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
It feels good to win by playing big. I hate small ball, and it's taking over the league. I have always liked the Pacers, but punishing them for playing PG at the four by destroying them in the paint felt good.
Showtime
Starter
I've noticed when he posts up he takes a lot of time. This is a trend for most post players, and if you look at guys like Hakeem, he would be so quick to make a decision. Either he would immediately take a hook, or take a quick fake and then counter. I would love for DMC to practice a very quick move or two to execute, as well as learning to use the glass more.
Yep. Him just getting invited to the MVP party would be pretty damn cool. But Steph has such a giant lead over everybody, it's hard to imagine that Boogie could catch him.
The Hammer
All-Star
Avg 35 and 13 in the second half and it's a conversation.
He's at 32.5 and 13.7 for January. Team coming together, more help from WCS, not out of the question at all.
If he finishes the season at 30/12.5... it's definitely a conversation.
My, my... what we have to talk about again!!
Lol this is crazy....let's not act like WCS didn't need to adjust for the first few games coming out of college...nor the fact that WCS was out for like 5 weeks, and needed to slowly come back again....
Karl put him back into the starting lineup+extended minutes when he became fully healthy and halfway adapted to the season....
Smh.
Blob
Starter
You miss the point. The criticism was justified.
Boogie was playing bad and he would be first to admit it. Turnover prone. Foul prone and shooting 39%. Boogie was leading the team with uneven play and high usage inefficiency. And that poor play was manifesting as frustration and disproportionate anger towards officials. He hacked Curry then when nuts when foul was called.
Any rational observer (instead of an apologist) would take exception to this performance relative to Boogie's potential. Now there is a difference between:
(1) Cousins is a bonehead and insufficiently capable and I want him off my team AND
(2) Cousins can act like a bonehead (and play that way) but sufficiently capable and I want him on my team.
In the first case you are passing judgement on him as player (person). In the second case you are passing judgment on his performance. This is important distinction because the player is the player and what you see is pretty much what you get, whereas performance is subject to change (improvement).
I would contend that 95% of the Kings fans who were critical of Boogie and I put myself into this category, identify with (2). In other words there was recognition of amazing talent and extraordinary skill and sense he was not measuring up (due to injury, decision-making, conditioning, system, new teammates, etc).
When fans were "venomous", the frustration stemmed from knowing how much better Boogie could and should be.
How much better is Boogie playing in month of January than December? 50% ? 70%? 100%? The stark contrast in performance does not invalidate the criticism he received in December, it justifies it.
It is those who wanted to excuse his play in December as "pretty good" or "not the problem" who look erroneous now. There is logical inconsistency to this because his dramatically better play is the primary reason we are winning now. The system and play sets have not radically changed. It is Boogie who is healthier more confident and playing smarter in the context of the same framework.
Have you ever heard of the phrase "the vocal tyranny of the minority". There are a few idiots (or more
) over on Sactown Royalty and ESPN.com who will rant against Boogie whenever the opportunity arises. I would say this is 1% of the fan base. They fall into category (1) above. These are the exceptions not the rule.These are the dummies who thought Derrick Favors was better than Boogie pre-draft or who thought we should have built our team around Tyreke instead of Boogie who is obviously the more dominant force. They are entrenched in their opinion regardless of overwhelming evidence to contrary. It is pride and ego that prevents considering an alternate perspective that would discredit everything they asserted to be true.
Other fans who fall into category (1) above are not Kings fans but NBA fans who talk trash out of ignorance and secondhand accounts and probable envy that Boogie is not on their team.
The point that I am making is that there is no real anti-Boogie crowd that the pro-Boogie crowd needs to rally against. If there is they are very few in number and not real fans anyway. The real fans were chanting MVP last night.
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The Hammer
All-Star
That's the scary part.
Well, scary if you're the rest of the league.
In his prime... just think about this... DMC is a 30/13/4/1.5/1.5 guy.
Just let that sink in.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Oh please! It was warranted to want him traded? It was warranted to call him a cancer? It was warranted to say that you cannot build a winner around him? It was warranted to blame him for the loss as some did because we were apparently red hot and we sunk once he got ejected?You miss the point. The criticism was justified.
Boogie was playing bad and he would be first to admit it. Turnover prone. Foul prone and shooting 39%. Boogie was leading the team with uneven play and high usage inefficiency. And that poor play was manifesting as frustration and disproportionate anger towards officials. He hacked Curry then when nuts when foul was called.
Any rational observer (instead of an apologist) would take exception to this performance relative to Boogie's potential. Now there is a difference between:
(1) Cousins is a bonehead and insufficiently capable and I want him off my team AND
(2) Cousins can act like a bonehead (and play that way) but sufficiently capable and I want him on my team.
In the first case you are passing judgement on him as player (person). In the second case you are passing judgment on his performance. This is important distinction because the player is the player and what you see is pretty much what you get, whereas performance is subject to change (improvement).
I would contend that 95% of the Kings fans who were critical of Boogie and I put myself into this category, identify with (2). In other words there was recognition of amazing talent and extraordinary skill and sense he was not measuring up (due to injury, decision-making, conditioning, system, new teammates, etc).
When fans were "venomous", the frustration stemmed from knowing how much better Boogie could and should be.
How much better is Boogie playing in month of January than December? 50% ? 70%? 100%? The stark contrast in performance does not invalidate the criticism he received in December, it justifies it.
It is those who wanted to excuse his play in December as "pretty good" or "not the problem" who look erroneous now. There is logical inconsistency to this because his dramatically better play is the primary reason we are winning now. The system and play sets have not radically changed. It is Boogie who is healthier more confident and playing smarter in the context of the same framework.
Have you ever heard of the phrase "the vocal tyranny of the minority". There are a few idiots (or more
These are the dummies who thought Derrick Favors was better than Boogie pre-draft or who thought we should have built our team around Tyreke instead of Boogie who is obviously the more dominant force. They are entrenched in their opinion regardless of overwhelming evidence to contrary. It is pride and ego that prevents considering an alternate perspective that would discredit everything they asserted to be true.
Other fans who fall into category (1) above are not Kings fans but NBA fans who talk trash out of ignorance and secondhand accounts and probable envy that Boogie is not on their team.
The point that I am making is that there is no real anti-Boogie crowd that the pro-Boogie crowd needs to rally against. If there is they are very few in number and not real fans anyway. The real fans were chanting MVP last night.
C'mon, the fickle nature of the supporters will never cease to amaze me.
Bottom line is that DeMarcus Cousins is THE FRANCHISE. Without him we are even bigger laughing stock of the competition than we were to this point. People need to embrace him for what he is because the good outweighs the bad by light years.
You miss the point. The criticism was justified.
Boogie was playing bad and he would be first to admit it. Turnover prone. Foul prone and shooting 39%. Boogie was leading the team with uneven play and high usage inefficiency. And that poor play was manifesting as frustration and disproportionate anger towards officials. He hacked Curry then when nuts when foul was called.
Any rational observer (instead of an apologist) would take exception to this performance relative to Boogie's potential. Now there is a difference between:
(1) Cousins is a bonehead and insufficiently capable and I want him off my team AND
(2) Cousins can act like a bonehead (and play that way) but sufficiently capable and I want him on my team.
In the first case you are passing judgement on him as player (person). In the second case you are passing judgment on his performance. This is important distinction because the player is the player and what you see is pretty much what you get, whereas performance is subject to change (improvement).
I would contend that 95% of the Kings fans who were critical of Boogie and I put myself into this category, identify with (2). In other words there was recognition of amazing talent and extraordinary skill and sense he was not measuring up (due to injury, decision-making, conditioning, system, new teammates, etc).
When fans were "venomous", the frustration stemmed from knowing how much better Boogie could and should be.
How much better is Boogie playing in month of January than December? 50% ? 70%? 100%? The stark contrast in performance does not invalidate the criticism he received in December, it justifies it.
It is those who wanted to excuse his play in December as "pretty good" or "not the problem" who look erroneous now. There is logical inconsistency to this because his dramatically better play is the primary reason we are winning now. The system and play sets have not radically changed. It is Boogie who is healthier more confident and playing smarter in the context of the same framework.
Have you ever heard of the phrase "the vocal tyranny of the minority". There are a few idiots (or more
These are the dummies who thought Derrick Favors was better than Boogie pre-draft or who thought we should have built our team around Tyreke instead of Boogie who is obviously the more dominant force. They are entrenched in their opinion regardless of overwhelming evidence to contrary. It is pride and ego that prevents considering an alternate perspective that would discredit everything they asserted to be true.
Other fans who fall into category (1) above are not Kings fans but NBA fans who talk trash out of ignorance and secondhand accounts and probable envy that Boogie is not on their team.
The point that I am making is that there is no real anti-Boogie crowd that the pro-Boogie crowd needs to rally against. If there is they are very few in number and not real fans anyway. The real fans were chanting MVP last night.
Actually, I think it is you who are missing the point.
It's pretty clear Boogie was not at 100% and THAT"S what the "Boogie apologists" were trying to point out.
I'll speak for myself - I don't need to make excuses for Boogie or apologize for him. I know what he brings to the Kings, and I'm not alone. Those of us who truly believed and never doubted were simply trying to point out that some here (and elsewhere) were either being intentionally disingenuous or dumb. It's that simple.
And yes, there is/has been an anti-Boogie crowd. Mysteriously, they seem to have disappeared. Wonder why that is?
macadocious
Starter
.
For what it's worth I honestly don't think Cousins has been called a cancer on this site for at least a year or two, save for maybe those one or two troll posters who come around every now and then. 99% of the posts calling Cousins a cancer are probably sarcastic posts by fans who have undying support for him. And while you may be employing hyperbole I feel the need to call this out because I think saying we should trade Cousins because you can't build a winner around him and saying trade him because he's a cancer are two very different issues. One of them suggests something about Cousins as a person rather than a basketball player.
Anybody who says we should trade Cousins because you can't build a winner around him is an idiot.
Anybody who says trade him because he's a cancer is also an idiot.
And, for what it's worth, Cousins has been called a cancer this season and those who did it were not trolls and they were not being sarcastic. I love seeing how some are trying to revise the narrative about DMC now that he's doing what a number of us knew damned well he could and would do.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Bottom line is, people wanted him gone and in large degree it had a lot to do with his demeanor on the court which is one of the reasons they thought you could not build a winner around him.
Both arguments are ridiculously flawed and based on unsubstantiated bullcrap. He gets a bad rep because he has been on bad team with an unprecedented lack of talent around him. His demeanor is no different to KG's except KG is a winner and Cousins is someone that you can't build a winner around. He has less ejections this year that Blake Griffin who those that want Cousins gone get all flustered when his name is brought up.
DeMarcus Cousins is THE best big man in the league bar none and he is precisely the type of player you build around. Back in the days when the league had genuine big men, DeMarcus Cousins is the type of player you dream about getting. In the modern game, where the game has evolved to small ball only because there are no genuine big men out there that you can jump on their shoulders and let them carry you home, people get infatuated with the prettiness of shooting 3PT and run and gun basketball and forget that the absolutely hardest position to fill in the entire league is a superstar big men. Cousins, when at his best is absolutely a top 5 player in the NBA and that is ABSOLUTELY the player you build around. In the play off series when the jump shots stop falling, give me an un-guardable big man like DMC to terrorize in the low post any day of the week.
KingsCitizen
Starter
If Demarcus' conditioning improves in the sense that he won't look gassed anymore at any point of the game when playing more than 30 mins, he could revolutionize that game back to when Shaq was around.
That would mean legit big men would matter again just to guard him.
That would mean legit big men would matter again just to guard him.
IfAt1st
Starter
Look, let's not ret-con things:
Demarcus' behavior, demeanor, effort, and performance were pretty abysmal and self-destructive just a month ago or so.
There's no way to sugarcoat or ignore that.
I am one of Boogie's longest and most ardent supporters on here, and even I had had enough of his crap mere weeks ago, and gotten to the point where it was OK to move on from him if he kept that crap up.
Thankfully, he got his head out of his ass, healed up, and started dominating like he could have any time in the past 3 years if he'd really wanted to.
And I still think (and believe the evidence is there and has been borne out this month) that the Kings could have turned on this switch anytime since the beginning of the year; they simply did not want to win before, for whatever reason I cannot fathom or intuit.
Demarcus' behavior, demeanor, effort, and performance were pretty abysmal and self-destructive just a month ago or so.
There's no way to sugarcoat or ignore that.
I am one of Boogie's longest and most ardent supporters on here, and even I had had enough of his crap mere weeks ago, and gotten to the point where it was OK to move on from him if he kept that crap up.
Thankfully, he got his head out of his ass, healed up, and started dominating like he could have any time in the past 3 years if he'd really wanted to.
And I still think (and believe the evidence is there and has been borne out this month) that the Kings could have turned on this switch anytime since the beginning of the year; they simply did not want to win before, for whatever reason I cannot fathom or intuit.
Actually, I think it is you who are missing the point.
It's pretty clear Boogie was not at 100% and THAT"S what the "Boogie apologists" were trying to point out.
I'll speak for myself - I don't need to make excuses for Boogie or apologize for him. I know what he brings to the Kings, and I'm not alone. Those of us who truly believed and never doubted were simply trying to point out that some here (and elsewhere) were either being intentionally disingenuous or dumb. It's that simple.
And yes, there is/has been an anti-Boogie crowd. Mysteriously, they seem to have disappeared. Wonder why that is?
I will stand up and admit that I haven't been a big Cuz fan over the years. You can call me anti-Boogie if you want. That's fine. Here is what you have to understand. I want nothing more than for him to prove me wrong. For me, it's about the love of the team. I've been a die-hard since day 1. Boogie has put up a tremendous month of January in terms of his play, but I'm most impressed with how his demeanor and changed for the better. But we had 5 years of terrible play and a lot of outbursts from Boogie so you can't just come out and say we were all wrong just because he's played well for 3 weeks. I want to see this continue for the rest of this season and beyond. Again, I hope it happens. I am not rooting against him!
The Hammer
All-Star
See that's where you and I differ. There was no way in heck I would have given up on Boogie, not after the loyalty he's shown this franchise and crap he's had to deal with.
fansinceday1
Starter
Actually, I think it is you who are missing the point.
It's pretty clear Boogie was not at 100% and THAT"S what the "Boogie apologists" were trying to point out.
I'll speak for myself - I don't need to make excuses for Boogie or apologize for him. I know what he brings to the Kings, and I'm not alone. Those of us who truly believed and never doubted were simply trying to point out that some here (and elsewhere) were either being intentionally disingenuous or dumb. It's that simple.
And yes, there is/has been an anti-Boogie crowd. Mysteriously, they seem to have disappeared. Wonder why that is?
They'll be back. I can GUARANTEE IT!!
The problem i had with what happened after the warrior game was people were merely thinking with their heart. It makes no sense WHATSOEVER to want to trade a player of DMC's caliber. No sense!!
DMC is a very emotional player. We either accept him for all his greatness, and flaws, or we run off possibly the best player to play for the kings. I think this needs to be addressed because chances are DMC will break down again. He will get tossed at a bad time and I just don't want to see what happened after the warrior game happen again.
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I should have clarified....it's not that his play was terrible in 5 years. The team's play obviously has been bad.
IfAt1st
Starter
That's easy to say now, Hammer, but be honest -
what if Demarcus' atrocious, self-defeating and destructive attitude had continued?
I think we both know a team cannot win with its star being petulant, whiny, and incapable of improving themselves or even recognizing their own culpability in its failure.
And up until 3 weeks ago, there was precious little evidence that Demarcus had the ability and desire to put aside the clutter in his head and play with the effort it takes to win in this league.
Seriously, only three weeks ago, most people would have expected Demarcus to wilt in the face of all that expectation and demand put on him like it was in the Pacer game.
Being pummeled, not getting calls, AND not one but TWO rollings of the same ankle?
The Demarcus of the past 5 1/2 years would have melted down and taken himself out of the game with frustration fouls, turnovers, missed flailing shots, and 2 techs.
Is Demarcus of the past 3 weeks REALLY the real Demarcus?
He'll have to keep it together for more than 3 weeks to convince me (after 5 1/2 years of patience, understanding and sympathizing towards him) that he has really turned the corner and learned the lesson of NBA dominance.
The Hammer
All-Star
Minor bone to pick here.
People don't realize how much harder the game is for big guys. Partly because how their bodies are built, but also because they actually travel farther (basket to basket, rather than backcourt to backcourt).
Little guys just have a lot less mass to move around relative to their cardio-vascular system. The ratio of body weight to heart/lung size is a lot smaller. With basically the same size engine, a 270 lb guy has to feed a lot more muscle. Big guys will ALWAYS look more gassed. And physically they are. And there's no way around. It's NOT because they are "lazy". Even though they look gassed, they are actually working a lot harder on the inside to move all those cells and provide the body with oxygen. Higher oxygen demand at the cells with the same size cardio system supplying it.
At a certain point you just have to trust the our guys are giving it their all, no matter how they look to our eye. DMC has more than proved himself to be a hard worker, and has earned the benefit of the doubt. Also, it is a long season, so it takes a toll on big guys more than it does little guys, so I also trust Cousins to pace himself (don't knock it, the Spurs do it and have been since before they were so old).
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