The Alarming Stagnation of Ben McLemore

[Bricklayer]

After yet another disappointing performance by Ben last night, I went out to basketball-reference.com to do some checking, and what I discovered was alarming.

The deleterious effect on Cuz of firing Malone was obvious. It remains perhaps this NBA season's single most clueless and hamhanded maneuver. But because of the effect on our franchise player, perhaps the effect Malone's loss had on Ben has been overlooked.

So let's look at the Per36 Minute splits:

Alarm #1 -- The Overall Season Numbers Have Only Improved Marginally
2013-14 11.9pts (.376 .320 .804) 3.9reb 1.3ast 0.7blk 0.3blk 1.6TO PER: 7.7
2014-15 13.0pts (.430 .354 .825) 3.2reb 1.7ast 0.8stl 0.3blk 1.8TO PER: 9.8

2013-14
Field Goal Attempts: 11.2
Three Point Attempts: 4.9
Free Throw Attempts: 2.4
Defensive Rating: 112

2014-15
Field Goal Attempts: 10.9
Three Point Attempts: 5.4
Free Throw Attempts: 2.1
Defensive Rating: 112

An improvement in percentages? Sure. But hardly impressive overall even now. And what is notable is how everything else looks the same. For a couple of games there with Karl he seemed to be driving more, but now that's missing again, and if he's actually drawing less fouls than he did last year on the season.


Alarm #2 -- Under Malone Ben Was Efficient, Once Malone Left...

Ben's Shooting Percentages Month By Month:
Oct: .200
Nov. .493
Dec. .483
Jan. .382
Feb. .409
Mar. .348

In the 10 games since Karl took over Ben's Numbers:
31.6min 12.9pts (.368 .314 .794) 2.2reb 1.8ast 0.9stl 0.3blk 1.8TO

Which puts him right back into close to being the worst major minute starter in the league category. A constant anvil costing us wins for 2 straight years. To make matters worse his defense seems to be regressing as well.


This is supposed to be Ben's audition. Could he be failing it? After the promising November (which if you recall Ben had 2 or 3 really bad games to start the season, and then there was a game where we consciously tried to set him up, and he played well for the next month after that) its been all downhill again. He can't be impressing Karl with those numbers, and when you look at why we are again spiraling its not because of Cuz or Rudy, its because Collison is gone and so is the Ben of the early season.

There's still such a gap physically as to make the comparison inapt, but does anybody remember Jimmer's big November of his sophomore year? He shot .508 during November, had people talking of corner's turned, and he was never that good again. How's this going to go with Ben?

 

[206Fan]

I'm honestly very disappointed in Ben. He started the season red hot, and it's ending in a terrible note. I think we will look for a veteran SG in FA. Ben has a ton of potential, but at this point in his career, he's a backup.

 

[Sac.1989]

we will go hard at Aaron Afflalo in the summer i feel and bring ben off the bench. Malones firing clearly had a negative effect on him and the numbers dont lie but its another reason why we overpay to bring Aaron in, in a multiyear deal

 

[DesertFox]

The overall shooting percentage jump had still been significant. Not a good trend recently, but we'll see how the rest of the season goes under karl.

I'm not too worried about him.
Ben was that good early on, with enough flashes since, that he can still be protected by his prospect label.

 

[Livinthedream]

After yet another disappointing performance by Ben last night, I went out to basketball-reference.com to do some checking, and what I discovered was alarming.

The deleterious effect on Cuz of firing Malone was obvious. It remains perhaps this NBA season's single most clueless and hamhanded maneuver. But because of the effect on our franchise player, perhaps the effect Malone's loss had on Ben has been overlooked.

So let's look at the Per36 Minute splits:

Alarm #1 -- The Overall Season Numbers Have Only Improved Marginally
2013-14 11.9pts (.376 .320 .804) 3.9reb 1.3ast 0.7blk 0.3blk 1.6TO PER: 7.7
2014-15 13.0pts (.430 .354 .825) 3.2reb 1.7ast 0.8stl 0.3blk 1.8TO PER: 9.8

2013-14
Field Goal Attempts: 11.2
Three Point Attempts: 4.9
Free Throw Attempts: 2.4
Defensive Rating: 112

2014-15
Field Goal Attempts: 10.9
Three Point Attempts: 5.4
Free Throw Attempts: 2.1
Defensive Rating: 112

An improvement in percentages? Sure. But hardly impressive overall even now. And what is notable is how everything else looks the same. For a couple of games there with Karl he seemed to be driving more, but now that's missing again, and if he's actually drawing less fouls than he did last year on the season.


Alarm #2 -- Under Malone Ben Was Efficient, Once Malone Left...

Ben's Shooting Percentages Month By Month:
Oct: .200
Nov. .493
Dec. .483
Jan. .382
Feb. .409
Mar. .348

In the 10 games since Karl took over Ben's Numbers:
31.6min 12.9pts (.368 .314 .794) 2.2reb 1.8ast 0.9stl 0.3blk 1.8TO

Which puts him right back into close to being the worst major minute starter in the league category. A constant anvil costing us wins for 2 straight years. To make matters worse his defense seems to be regressing as well.


This is supposed to be Ben's audition. Could he be failing it? After the promising November (which if you recall Ben had 2 or 3 really bad games to start the season, and then there was a game where we consciously tried to set him up, and he played well for the next month after that) its been all downhill again. He can't be impressing Karl with those numbers, and when you look at why we are again spiraling its not because of Cuz or Rudy, its because Collison is gone and so is the Ben of the early season.

There's still such a gap physically as to make the comparison inapt, but does anybody remember Jimmer's big November of his sophomore year? He shot .508 during November, had people talking of corner's turned, and he was never that good again. How's this going to go with Ben?

We're back to blaming Ben for our losses? Now he's Jimmer? Unreal.

The whole team is up and down from day to day. Ben has been through nothing but constant roster and coaching turnover his two years. I'm sure those month by month numbers have some correlation to coaching and style changes. Player like Rudy still gets his numbers because in reality, he doesn't care what system you run. He's going to shoot when he touches it. Coach and system are irrelevant. To guy just starting out like Ben and Nik who haven't earned the luxury of throwing up any shot they want, it's everything.

 

[mac]

I think the big thing is that he's been asked to be more aggressive, and as a result is rushing and taking some bad shots. Let's not forget how terrible he was to start off the season. Maybe (hopefully) he just needs some time under Karl to settle down.

 

[Bricklayer]

We're back to blaming Ben for our losses? Unreal.

We're still making excuses for a player shooting sub 40% with less than a 10 PER? Unreal.

I suppose back in 2012-13 it never occurred to you that having John Salmons put up per 36 min numbers of:

10.6pts (.399 .371 .773) 3.3reb 3.6ast 0.8stl 0.4blk 1.3TO and a 10.2PER

might be deleterious to our winning chances?

Of course having such a player logging huge minutes is going to kill you. Of COURSE it would.

 

[rhythmless]

Well then it's a good thing the front office was smart enough to take an NBA ready SG last year.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well then it's a good thing the front office was smart enough to take an NBA ready SG last year.

aargh!


It may however be worth keeping an eye on that one.

Since Karl took over, in a small role and not playing every game, Nik is shooting .548FG% .600 3pt% .917FT% (a TS% of .719).

 

[Livinthedream]

We're still making excuses for a player shooting sub 40% with less than a 10 PER? Unreal.

I suppose back in 2012-13 it never occurred to you that having John Salmons put up per 36 min numbers of:

10.6pts (.399 .371 .773) 3.3reb 3.6ast 0.8stl 0.4blk 1.3TO and a 10.2PER

might be deleterious to our winning chances?

Of course having such a player logging huge minutes is going to kill you. Of COURSE it would.

And yet Malone, Corbin and Karl inexplicably keep giving him those huge minutes. Should Ben excuse himself from play? Or maybe the coaches need to pay attention to the stats, because it must have slipped by them?

I think the truth is that Ben is outplaying all the other guards who could potentially replace him on this team in practices and in games. He keeps adjusting his game to fit what the coaches want. Never getting enough time in one system to become efficient at the changes. Cousins isn't even the same as he was to start the season. No clue why we need to replay this narrative.

 

[Bricklayer]

And yet Malone, Corbin and Karl inexplicably keep giving him those huge minutes. Should Ben excuse himself from play? Or maybe the coaches need to pay attention to the stats, because it must have slipped by them?

I think the truth is that Ben is outplaying all the other guards who could potentially replace him on this team in practices and in games. He keeps adjusting his game to fit what the coaches want. Never getting enough time in one system to become efficient at the changes. Cousins isn't even the same as he was to start the season. No clue why we need to replay this narrative.

He was gifted the minutes over Thornotn, who was miserable anyway. Standard we want our rookie to blow up stuff. And we haven't had an NBA backup SG all year this season. Stauskas failed until very recently. Karl was even playing Casspi there. The front office has no committment to winning. They've allowed a situation to fester that no winning team could or would.

Which brings us back to the alarming stagnation. After a November of hope Ben has sprialed back and is nearly as bad as last year at an age when he should be improving rapidly if he's going to. He's been given more minutes than any other player so unproductive is ever likely to see, and still there has been no payoff to all the pain.

 

[Livinthedream]

He was gifted the minutes over Thornotn, who was miserable anyway. Standard we want our rookie to blow up stuff. And we haven't had an NBA backup SG all year this season. Stauskas failed until very recently. Karl was even playing Casspi there. The front office has no committment to winning. They've allowed a situation to fester that no winning team could or would.

Which brings us back to the alarming stagnation. After a November of hope Ben has sprialed back and is nearly as bad as last year at an age when he should be improving rapidly if he's going to. He's been given more minutes than any other player so unproductive is ever likely to see, and still there has been no payoff to all the pain.

Which brings us back to the point of where Ben is being asked to change his game on the fly, Under Malone after a year, we saw the progress. Now we ask Ben to play in a way he's never played. That's fine, but you'd expect up and down games while he adjusts. That's what we're getting. Not some regression.

And if Nik is all of a sudden better than Ben based on spot minutes against selected teams, then let him start. He produces better then I'm good with that. But I doubt that would happen.

 

[Gary]

Trade him if we get a good offer, put him on the bench for a few years if we don't trade him. Let a veteran come in and start over him.

 

[kingsboi]

you don't know what Ben will show up game to game. He shows nice flashes like he did versus the Spurs coming off screens and using his dribble to create. Then you see him regress to the same Ben, being loose with the dribble, not defending anybody, going under screens on shooters, etc etc. I mentioned in another thread of starting Nik since this season has turned into shambles and to see what Nik can do with 30+ minutes, I know that isn't going to happen but I would really like to see what Nik can do because I think Nik is picking the game up faster and you can tell as the months go by.

 

[Gary]

We have quite a few players (Like McCallum, McLemore, Stauskas, Hollins) who are getting minutes (some of them getting major minutes) who don't even belong in the NBA. We could rid ourselves of all four of those players and take DLeague players and we would not be any worse off. McCallum shouldn't even be in the NBA, McLemore and Stauskas should be at the end of the bench. Hollins is just terrible. Give us any DLeague 7' player and I am sure they could produce as good as he, if not better.

 

[gunks]

Why focus on Bmac......How about The Alarming Stagnation of the franchise?

 

[rainmaker]

Ben's recent play is a concern, but I'm of the opinion the locker room is not as happy a place as fans believe it is after Karl's hiring. Not at all.

I think there's mass confusion(3rd system in 6 months), selfish play as guys are trying out for Karl, deep distrust in our FO and ownership and general anger hovering over the entire situation due to blowing up the season for no ****ing reason.

Fans are excited about Karl and it was a positive step....compared to Corbin, but athletes don't think the way emotional fans do. Locker rooms generally contain an atmosphere you won't find anywhere else in life, maybe the military but it's far different on the inside than what many fans I believe think. Players don't look happy. Cuz doesn't look happy. Rudy looks like he'd like the be anywhere else but here. It all trickles down.

So while Ben is struggling, I'm not sure exactly why, could be any number of reasons. I'm in favor of upgrading our SG rotation if an Afflalo type becomes available but I'm far, far, far more concerned that there's a toxic cloud hanging over this organization and Karl can only distract from so much of that.

 

[exGrizzly]

I hate everything about NBA 3.0 (since we've got the most exciting big man to enter the league since Shaq and refuse to build around him -- he's a square peg morons!). However, I think Ben just hit the sophomore wall and is tired. I think next year he'll be able to make the strong start last longer and eventually sustain it for a season (like a pro).

 

[c-webb1s#1]

BMacs defense has been the most disappointing thing for me. It's as if hes not listening to the coaching staff or just has a hard time making those split second decisions that get a defensive stop or results in the other team scoring. Some things though are just plain dumb, Ben played Kyle Korver horribly! He would either completely lose track of him or go under screens....blah...he could do much better than this.

Offensively he is just a weird player, ill give him another season to get on track on account of the 3 coaches in one season crap but after that hes outta here.

As for the team, I would agree that they do not look happy. But can anyone really say they are surprised? We all knew this season was pretty much a wash after Malone was fired. I was hopefully like most that the team would magically play better but lets not kid ourselves here. The season is and has been done for awhile. All thats really left to do is have the guys who are coming back and might be coming back gel into GK system. Next season will be a different story, get some good defensive players who can hit a 3 point shot and someone not named Ryan Hollins or Carl Landry to play the backup C or PF slot.

 

[pshn80]

I've been in favor of ending Ben's starting roll and minutes for some time. Last year he was a serious detriment to the team. This year, for a time, he had improved to terribly unreliable and has now regressed. Best thing in my book is to part ways with him. Unfortunately we don't have his replacement, a true starter, currently on the roster. I wish the best for Ben but let him grow and play minutes on someone else's roster.

 

[The_Jamal]

The worst thing we could do is overreact and make judgments on players, especially young players who aren't established yet, based on this season. 3 coaches in a year is absolutely bonkers. How are you supposed to gain any traction or a comfort level with that happening? The answer is you aren't and going to go through growing pains (which we are). The good news is hopefully the growing pains happen this year and we can go into the off-season with a basic understanding of what Karl wants and start next season off strong.

The issue with Ben is he, like everyone else who plays primarily with Cuz and Rudy, is a low USG guy who doesn't get many opportunities with the ball. For some idea he's currently 55th/78th out of SG's in USG%. Couple that with not being a playmaker, a good rebounder, and an average TO rate for a SG being 22nd/78, you get the reasoning behind why his PER is so low.

Basically, Ben is a worse version of a JJ Reddick, Courtney Lee, Danny Green, Wes Matthews type of player right now. Guys who can operate with low USG, are extremely efficient, don't turn the ball over and have limited playmaking ability. And the key to those guys value on the floor is the efficiency level with they operate at. They're valuable because they make the most out of each possession they use, no matter the number of possessions they use.

He's just a couple of clicks away in a few categories like turning it over slightly less, playmaking a bit more, being a bit more efficient, from having a top "3andD" sort of impact for us.

PS: Kyle Korver is insane. 12th lowest USG rate for SG's in the NBA, 19th best AST rate for a SG, far and away the most efficient by 10% TS with .707% TS (how is that even real...) and 22nd in Rebound rate. The amount he contributes to an offense with so few touches is a big reason why ATL is carving people up this season.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Really shows how marvelous coach Malone was

 

[Siranthony]

This thread is alarming...not. Same old same old. How can anyone take any stats from this season seriously? I mean seriously? We have a new coach. This will take a little time. Malone was on his second season. Not everyone was happy with him either.

 

[lawlman91]

Ben's been having struggles but he has a legitimate skill set and will more than likely bounce back. He will improve too

 

[KingMilz]

I don't think Ben is an issue at all, I'm more concerned about pretty much 90% of the roster such as our back up PG positions (next season), both the SF positions (I don't believe Rudy will ever be the answer), PF position, back up C position than I am with Ben.

Similar to the "welcome back boogie monster" (where obviously Cousins is more efficient beating up on scrubs) thread if you eliminate all the variables and just post raw numbers than yeah I guess he has sucked but so has the entire team and Ben is dependent on good team basketball to get him open shots/fastbreak points.

 

[Siranthony]

If you look at the stats of just bout all our players, they don't look stellar. Rudy's shooting % is good. Stauskas's shooting % has gone off the chart this month.

 

[randymoss1881]

Really shows how marvelous coach Malone was

At this rate he will be the highest paid coach next year

 

[Sac.1989]

we accelerated his career, he will fondly remember his time with us

 

[Albatros]

Great kid just don't like his game, never have really, the things he can do just don't make up for the things he can't.

His handle will always stop him from taking the next step. Not to mention his low iq.

 

[PoundForPound]

Low basketball IQ.

Sub-Par Ball Handling.

Inconsistent / Inefficient

Turnover Prone.

I know it's only his 2nd year, but he's just not very good. The only thing he has going for him is his athleticism, youth, and occasionally he can knock down the open three. If you're starting Ben McLemore, you better have 2 or 3 other all-stars in your line-up to compensate. I don't like his game. At all. It's sloppy. It's nervous. Blame it on not having Malone all you want.