Stojakovic @b92.net

[piksi]

Translations are correct. Interpretations will always differ

 

[bozzwell]

Translations are correct. Interpretations will always differ

Yes, Pedja also said in that interview that Partizan Belgrade is the best club in the World and that Red Star stinks. That's my translation and I am sticking with it.

 

[piksi]

Yes, Pedja also said in that interview that Partizan Belgrade is the best club in the World and that Red Star stinks. That's my translation and I am sticking with it.

You are geting personal here.

Partizan is a club that always manages to embarras Serbs especially while playing agains the "neighbor" nations.

 

[The Freak]

From the Petri is not jelli translation:

"Stojaković after B92: " far oscillating " Woman basketball player Dream Antonym over najgrublji kondicional disconnected are serial Kingsa with 5 conquest"

It makes you wonder what these sublimal messages are trying to say.

 

[shaka zulu]

peja played pretty tough last night but referee play didn't allow him to do so.He picked up 2 offensive fouls for pushing bruce bowen off of him.I see it as clearing space from him and Bruce bowen.The Refs allowed the spurs to be over physical and play extreme ball denial D.Making no excuses the game was called a little different and the whole TEAM was brought out of focus.But peja did get tough but he wasn't allowed to continue.

 

[bozzwell]

You are geting personal here.

I don't see how - but if did I did not intend to offend.

Partizan is a club that always manages to embarras Serbs especially while playing agains the "neighbor" nations.

So what, they're embarrassing themselves. Kings got "embarrassed" yesterday but it is all on them (the team/players). VF21 kept on with her PBP, you kept on with your thread and few others and Bricklayer came through with the grades. We can feel embarrassed for the team but it no reflection on us as fans/people.

 

[vj9999]

I'm gonna put my grammar nazi hat on here - bear with me, please.

He said (according to B92 interview - in Serbian): "možda se i ja nekad utopim"

And you translated it as: "maybe sometimes I blend in to the".

The two are not the same. He said "i ja" which literally trasnslated is "and I". Anyone familiar with colloquial Serbian understands that the expression is equal to the English "I, too" or in a different sentence/context "me too". Original interview translated it as "I also" which would suggest that Pedja looses interest in games and blands in to bad play in addition to whatever else he does, when clearly he is saying that _he_too_ plays badly and looses interest (in _addition_ to his teammates playing badly/loosing interest).

You have to look at the whole sentence to get the translation right. If you just wanted to translate "mozda se i ja nekada utopim", without looking at the context, you would get "maybe I sometimes drown as well" (thought that almost makes sense based on last nights performance )

If you look at the whole thought:
"možda se i ja nekad utopim u tu lošu igru ekipe"

the translation is "maybe I sometimes blend/drown in that bad performance/game of the team".

Like piksi said. Translation is pretty much the same, but what you get out of is what you want to get out of it. I guess that is the digfeerence between translation and interpretation.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

For the time being, I am going to act as if I never saw this....

 

[Heuge]

Iam not saying he faked the injury what Iam saying is his body gave out on him due to fear of the competition.I don't think he wanted to handle the pressure that was coming at him.So his body caved into the pressuse and pressure does bust pipes.He didn't want any parts of that game last night.

This could be the most absurd anti-Webb argument of all time.

 

[KP]

Body gave out due to fear of competition? You hear that sound? Kinda of a "whooooosh"? Thats your credibility going out the window.

Shakas credibility?? lol. I think Peja was discouraged after the loss + the translation to english might have made it sound worse than it is. But when they're playing that bad and there is no chance to come back I think they all have a tendency to lose interest a little. They really were struggling last night and they threw in the towel early. I still believe in Peja, I know how good he can be when he's aggressive, but I gotta admit last night I was dissapointed with his performance. Once I knew Webb was out in the 3rd I had hoped Peja would come alive and lead the team on some kind of run... They were playing so bad I guess it's not his fault, but we needed him to show leadership and he didn't. I think the debate (over who the teams goto guy/leader is) is just about over. Don't get me wrong even if Webb did play the second half maybe he wouldn't have done any better, but he would have gone down swinging...even if the Kings fans were booing him the whole time for it. Mike isn't completely off the hook either but he played decent D on Parker(which is exellent for him) in the first half and at least tried to compete out there. If Peja is too scared/disinterested and Webb is out, Mike has to take over the game(or at least try). I don't care if he shoots it everytime down the court. Adelman also dissapointed me, I am one of his biggest supporters... but he could not find a way to fire them up at all, or get them to move the ball, I hope we see better thursday...

 

[shaka zulu]

Shakas credibility?? lol. I think Peja was discouraged after the loss + the translation to english might have made it sound worse than it is. But when they're playing that bad and there is no chance to come back I think they all have a tendency to lose interest a little. They really were struggling last night and they threw in the towel early. I still believe in Peja, I know how good he can be when he's aggressive, but I gotta admit last night I was dissapointed with his performance. Once I knew Webb was out in the 3rd I had hoped Peja would come alive and lead the team on some kind of run... They were playing so bad I guess it's not his fault, but we needed him to show leadership and he didn't. I think the debate (over who the teams goto guy/leader is) is just about over. Don't get me wrong even if Webb did play the second half maybe he wouldn't have done any better, but he would have gone down swinging...even if the Kings fans were booing him the whole time for it. Mike isn't completely off the hook either but he played decent D on Parker(which is exellent for him) in the first half and at least tried to compete out there. If Peja is too scared/disinterested and Webb is out, Mike has to take over the game(or at least try). I don't care if he shoots it everytime down the court. Adelman also dissapointed me, I am one of his biggest supporters... but he could not find a way to fire them up at all, or get them to move the ball, I hope we see better thursday...

It doesn't matter as far as the credible issue is concern.We look at things diferently,but webb and everyone else caved in last night coach included,Webber just did whodini on everyone by going out the side EXIT.He didn't want to play last night,He hurt his ankle on his own footing.I have heard several coaches players elude to players becoming so tense they injure themselves.I will find a few desriptions of what Iam talking about,How a players fear works against themselves.But peja doesn't get of the hook he could have shown some leadership,But if you rip peja ya better look at Chris webber.

 

[Heuge]

It doesn't matter as far as the credible issue is concern.We look at things diferently,

When you're attempting to communicate, which you are, credibility is everything.
Right now, nothing you are saying is being taken at face value.

 

[bozzwell]

You have to look at the whole sentence to get the translation right. If you just wanted to translate "mozda se i ja nekada utopim", without looking at the context, you would get "maybe I sometimes drown as well" (thought that almost makes sense based on last nights performance )

If we look at the the context (which I did before posting my objections), let's look now at the whole article. He is questioning the team overall and recent trade and making some effort to qualify his comments by including himself in the team picture (presumably not to sound as if denieing his own calpability).

If you look at the whole thought:
"možda se i ja nekad utopim u tu lošu igru ekipe"

the translation is "maybe I sometimes blend/drown in that bad performance/game of the team".

Like piksi said. Translation is pretty much the same, but what you get out of is what you want to get out of it. I guess that is the digfeerence between translation and interpretation.

I am not trying to argue opinions, or provide alternative interpretations. I was trying to pin down translation so that we all can make up our own opinion and distill our own interpretations based on translation that takes into account some linguistic nuances.

Having read both English translationa and Serbian original I find yours and Piksi's definition of word "same" (as it relates to translations) to be very different from mine.

Now that we all agree (to disagree) I would suggest that Bricklayer's diagnosis is the correct one: Pedja is passive-aggressive. Pedja's responses are too ambiguous and broad, leaving it to our own interpretation whether he is:
a) bringing up his trade request again or suggesting that more new faces are required in addition to Mobly/since "loosing" Doug.
b) he loses interest because team play breaks down and he cannot/will not play "solo" or he loses interest in the games because he caught the bug from VC at the last All star game
c) none of the above - he is just bitching to Serbian media because he doesn't want to (or simply he is incapable of) complaining openly and candidly to his teammates and coaching stuff/management.

 

[KP]

It doesn't matter as far as the credible issue is concern.We look at things diferently,but webb and everyone else caved in last night coach included,Webber just did whodini on everyone by going out the side EXIT.He didn't want to play last night,He hurt his ankle on his own footing.I have heard several coaches players elude to players becoming so tense they injure themselves.I will find a few desriptions of what Iam talking about,How a players fear works against themselves.But peja doesn't get of the hook he could have shown some leadership,But if you rip peja ya better look at Chris webber.

Shaka I still don't know if your for real or what... your accent seems to come and go

... But the replay clearly showed T-Mass back into Webber and Him coming down on his ankle. I know you think it was his body echoing his mental state or whatever but why the hell would Webb be thinking that way? He outstatted and beat Duncan the last time they played, in the last 18 games vs. the Spurs the Kings were 9-9, and he was just coming off a 7 game stretch where he was avg over 28 pts. 13 rebs and 6 assists a game! He has played good against Duncan for the most part so I don't think his mind had anything to do with it. It doesn't matter anyway neither of us can say for sure that we are right about his psycological state... but I can say for sure that Webb would not have stayed in the background if he was on the court in the second half, that is something he never does(and a lot of people hate him for it). The Kings just rolled over in the second half, and Peja should have at least tried to do something about it.

 

[shaka zulu]

Shaka I still don't know if your for real or what... your accent seems to come and go

... But the replay clearly showed T-Mass back into Webber and Him coming down on his ankle. I know you think it was his body echoing his mental state or whatever but why the hell would Webb be thinking that way? He outstatted and beat Duncan the last time they played, in the last 18 games vs. the Spurs the Kings were 9-9, and he was just coming off a 7 game stretch where he was avg over 28 pts. 13 rebs and 6 assists a game! He has played good against Duncan for the most part so I don't think his mind had anything to do with it. It doesn't matter anyway neither of us can say for sure that we are right about his psycological state... but I can say for sure that Webb would not have stayed in the background if he was on the court in the second half, that is something he never does. The Kings just rolled over in the second half, and Peja should have at least tried to do something about it.

I see what your saying KP.But there is a term called The Psychology of Sports Injuries this is what alot of TEAMS around the league do.They bring in sports PSYCHES to observe there TEAMS mental approach to the Game.Webber's track record of choke comes into play with this subject.Take a browse on the internet and read some of the diffrent articles on the subject.If you guy's want to help webb you must pay attention to the dudes subtle antics.Webb himself wanted to finish his college dgree in psychology he knows.But everyone else knows around the league WEBBER'S HEART and this something he needs to work on as well as peja and other kings.That timeout he called in the NCAA championship games stil haunts him and you see it in his play from tim to time.But yeah I didn't see T-mass step on his foot but I still think he was tense and this subtle was a reason he didn't want to play.

 

[Stojakovic]

This article doesn't really surprise me.

At the beginning of the season he was unsatisfied and he spoke out. I knew that he was even unhappier now, and he spoke out again.

I'd rather he kept his mouth shut and play basketball.

There's plenty of teams who'll be interested in him, so I say if you run across a good offer, take it.

 

[uolj]

With either bozzwell's or vj9999's translation, I don't have any problems with Stojakovic's statement about losing interest. That's human nature. I'm glad to see that he recognizes it, and the natural assumption is that with that recognition he will attempt to fix the problem. Mobley said something very similar last night in his comments.

I don't expect him to ever change completely, but Stojakovic can make improvements, and I think how well he overcomes his tendency to shrink in tough times once the playoffs come around will go a long way in determining the Kings' success.

I don't know how you sprain an ankle coming down from a jump shot on your own leg.

You do realize he landed on Tony Massenburg's foot as Massenburg stepped under him to block him out after the shot, right?

 

[sloter]

But it is all about Pedja not believing that this team is going to win the ring and therefore... you fill in the blanks.

Um ... who does ?

 

[sloter]

I'm gonna put my grammar nazi hat on here - bear with me, please.

He said (according to B92 interview - in Serbian): "možda se i ja nekad utopim"

And you translated it as: "maybe sometimes I blend in to the".

The two are not the same. He said "i ja" which literally trasnslated is "and I". Anyone familiar with colloquial Serbian understands that the expression is equal to the English "I, too" or in a different sentence/context "me too". Original interview translated it as "I also" which would suggest that Pedja looses interest in games and blands in to bad play in addition to whatever else he does, when clearly he is saying that _he_too_ plays badly and looses interest (in _addition_ to his teammates playing badly/loosing interest).

Nice point. He was saying that he is not blaming anyone else on the team, but that he is also a part of the bad games...

 

[sloter]

You are geting personal here.

Partizan is a club that always manages to embarras Serbs especially while playing agains the "neighbor" nations.

Hey, piksi. I would like to see Red Star play a game in international competition in the Spring ... do you know which sport I should be watching ???

 

[shaka zulu]

With either bozzwell's or vj9999's translation, I don't have any problems with Stojakovic's statement about losing interest. That's human nature. I'm glad to see that he recognizes it, and the natural assumption is that with that recognition he will attempt to fix the problem. Mobley said something very similar last night in his comments.

I don't expect him to ever change completely, but Stojakovic can make improvements, and I think how well he overcomes his tendency to shrink in tough times once the playoffs come around will go a long way in determining the Kings' success.


You do realize he landed on Tony Massenburg's foot as Massenburg stepped under him to block him out after the shot, right?

He did |I did not see that.But I still think he psyched himself out and caved in.But hopefully if he plays thursday he will come out tuff like he did the last spurs game when he played the tuff D and Banged with tim duncan.

 

[Alacron]

He did |I did not see that.But I still think he psyched himself out and caved in.But hopefully if he plays thursday he will come out tuff like he did the last spurs game when he played the tuff D and Banged with tim duncan.

Dude, HE LANDED ON A FOOT. Tell me how his ankle was NOT supposed to roll.

You said, "I look at the intangibles the things that go unseen unoticed."

How about looking at a replay?

Just like Kobe psyched himself out and hurt his ankle, or Malone last year with his knee. And let's not forget Peja's ankle vs. Dallas. Was so terrified he had to be carried off the court. And of course, the mentally fragile Bobby Jackson, who telekinetically severed his own wrist ligament.

For the record, I have never been seriously hurt in a competitive game (due to my warrior mentality?) but I did roll my ankle on a simple jumpshot in practice (fear of not having an opponent?) and was on crutches for two weeks. What do ya make of that, Sigmund?
~~

 

[shaka zulu]

Dude, HE LANDED ON A FOOT. Tell me how his ankle was NOT supposed to roll.

You said, "I look at the intangibles the things that go unseen unoticed."

How about looking at a replay?

Just like Kobe psyched himself out and hurt his ankle, or Malone last year with his knee. And let's not forget Peja's ankle vs. Dallas. Was so terrified he had to be carried off the court. And of course, the mentally fragile Bobby Jackson, who telekinetically severed his own wrist ligament.

For the record, I have never been seriously hurt in a competitive game (due to my warrior mentality?) but I did roll my ankle on a simple jumpshot in practice (fear of not having an opponent?) and was on crutches for two weeks. What do ya make of that, Sigmund?
~~

Bobby jackson is inujury prone because of the way he plays.He plays at 110mph.Peja terrified because he is soft.Malone his thing was the time factor,it wsn't in the cards for them to advance the lakers.Chris webber's thang last night was he was tense,and if you ever get a chance to look into sports psychology they talk about how athletes get injured by being tense and having bottle up anxiety.He could of continued but his first two jumpers didn't go down.So he mailed in the stats he didn't want to bang it out,although he could have.

 

[keflanag]

Chris webber's thang last night was he was tense,and if you ever get a chance to look into sports psychology they talk about how athletes get injured by being tense and having bottle up anxiety.

Yeah. I TOTALLY AGREE!! Same thing happened a few weeks ago. Maurice Evans was so scared to drive in against Utah that he did a flip in the air and landed on his head. Some people say they saw a replay of him getting fouled, but sports psychology says that if he got hurt ... it must have been because he was tense and afraid to play. He must have been unbelievable afraid because his head split open all by itself.

 

[mcsluggo]

Bobby jackson is inujury prone because of the way he plays.He plays at 110mph.Peja terrified because he is soft.Malone his thing was the time factor,it wsn't in the cards for them to advance the lakers.Chris webber's thang last night was he was tense,and if you ever get a chance to look into sports psychology they talk about how athletes get injured by being tense and having bottle up anxiety.He could of continued but his first two jumpers didn't go down.So he mailed in the stats he didn't want to bang it out,although he could have.

Are you sitting in lotus position, levitating 3 feet above a carpet with incense swirling around and your eyes rolled back in your head as you chant this out.

Because if you are, I'm buying every word of it.

 

[VF21]

Iam not saying he faked the injury what Iam saying is his body gave out on him due to fear of the competition.I don't think he wanted to handle the pressure that was coming at him.So his body caved into the pressuse and pressure does bust pipes.He didn't want any parts of that game last night.But I will say this that he fought the last game against Duncan and the spurs,But you have to keep that fire coming because timmy and T-mass and popovich were coming for blood last night.they got what they wanted a kick butt game.

The best laugh I've had all day. Your takes on the Kings are about as relevant as Michael Jackson lectures on Childcare.

 

[VF21]

So, let me see if I have this straight. You rant on and on about Webber without even knowing what happened. When the truth is pointed out to you, all you can say is:

He did |I did not see that.But I still think he psyched himself out and caved in.

You find out WHY Webber had to leave the game and you STILL try to further your own agenda.

That's pathetic. I certainly hope you get a postcard from reality once in a while.

 

[shaka zulu]

The best laugh I've had all day. Your takes on the Kings are about as relevant as Michael Jackson lectures on Childcare.

Dude is a headcase on the court the league knows this,players know chris webber has a problem with pressure and so what he made one Big shot in a 11 year year career It's about time he does.The fact is he quit last night and he knows this.

 

[shaka zulu]

Are you sitting in lotus position, levitating 3 feet above a carpet with incense swirling around and your eyes rolled back in your head as you chant this out.

Because if you are, I'm buying every word of it.

hey I had to laugh on that one.tha's real funny mcsluggo.But yeah he didn't come through Big game.But yeah that's a good one.

 

[VF21]

Now that we all agree (to disagree) I would suggest that Bricklayer's diagnosis is the correct one: Pedja is passive-aggressive. Pedja's responses are too ambiguous and broad, leaving it to our own interpretation whether he is:
a) bringing up his trade request again or suggesting that more new faces are required in addition to Mobly/since "loosing" Doug.
b) he loses interest because team play breaks down and he cannot/will not play "solo" or he loses interest in the games because he caught the bug from VC at the last All star game
c) none of the above - he is just bitching to Serbian media because he doesn't want to (or simply he is incapable of) complaining openly and candidly to his teammates and coaching stuff/management.

I think there's a d) The writer of the article, just like many American writers, is spinning the article just a bit to suit his own agenda.

Pedja needs to learn to just shut up and play. I get the feeling he never turns down an interview with b92, and I suspect it's because they speak to him in his native tongue and he feels more at ease. Bottom line, however, is that they're still part of the media and Pedja is going to have to learn that anything he says can be taken out of context, twisted, etc.

There's a big different between "I lose interest and play badly" and "I play badly and lose interest just like the rest of the team."

I've seen Pedja grow and mature more on defense this year than I thought possible. AND I don't think he's that unhappy with the team. I do think that some members of the media, here and abroad, feel he's being pushed out and want to see him go elsewhere.

At this point, IMHO, if Pedja keeps talking to the press, he's going to alienate a lot of his fan base. And it will be a shame because again IMHO his comments are having a lot more read into them than he meant.