Stockton files chapter 9 bankruptcy, Any impact on public funding for an Arena?

[NewKingsFan916]

Does anybody think there will be any political fallout from Stockton filing bankruptcy?

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/27/4591892/stockton-council-votes-to-go-into.html

Thankfully from what I understand Sacramento just passed a balanced budget (with pension cuts) so fiscally in the short term Sacramento seems okay and the fundamentals here are stronger than Stockton (larger city, lots of stable government jobs, etc), but I'm wondering if this is going to sour the mood for using public money for an area. And not just Sacramento, but anywhere in California.

 

[Bricklayer]

Does anybody think there will be any political fallout from Stockton filing bankruptcy?

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/27/4591892/stockton-council-votes-to-go-into.html

Thankfully from what I understand Sacramento just passed a balanced budget (with pension cuts) so fiscally in the short term Sacramento seems okay and the fundamentals here are stronger than Stockton (larger city, lots of stable government jobs, etc), but I'm wondering if this is going to sour the mood for using public money for an area. And not just Sacramento, but anywhere in California.

How could it grow any more sour? A couple of generations ago California spent more money on public works projects than any other state. Had the best roads, the best shcools, people poured in. Post tax revolution the state has turned into an armpit, nobody wants to spend for anything. The roads suck. The schools are broke. And hell no to anything being built. Not surprisingly people are now leaving.

 

[ArcoKings]

How could it grow any more sour? A couple of generations ago California spent more money on public works projects than any other state. Had the best roads, the best shcools, people poured in. Post tax revolution the state has turned into an armpit, nobody wants to spend for anything. The roads suck. The schools are broke. And hell no to anything being built. Not surprisingly people are now leaving.

Oh yes. They are leaving in droves. I read a statistic and a graph a few months ago that showed more Californians leaving the state than people from other states moving in. I want to say this is called Reverse Migration according to the graph but maybe I'm wrong in the terminology. Anyways..... Salt Lake City.... here I come!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The arena really had almost nothing to do with the bankruptcy, so hopefully it won't change much in Sac. Not that there's anything to change in Sac right now...

 

[kennadog]

The arena really had almost nothing to do with the bankruptcy, so hopefully it won't change much in Sac. Not that there's anything to change in Sac right now...

Done conservatively and proprly, arena financing has nothing to do with the general funds, which is where the real problems are.

Brick is right, the anti-tax crowd here in California has just about destroyed the state. No investing for the future equals crappy infra-structure, transportation, education, etc.

 

[Glenn]

Oh yes. They are leaving in droves. I read a statistic and a graph a few months ago that showed more Californians leaving the state than people from other states moving in. I want to say this is called Reverse Migration according to the graph but maybe I'm wrong in the terminology. Anyways..... Salt Lake City.... here I come!

And Mexicans are now hiring coyotes to get back to Mexico.

 

[VF21]

Done conservatively and proprly, arena financing has nothing to do with the general funds, which is where the real problems are.

Brick is right, the anti-tax crowd here in California has just about destroyed the state. No investing for the future equals crappy infra-structure, transportation, education, etc.

At the risk of turning this into a political debate, there is also an inordinate amount of tax money being spent on entitlement programs. Brick said, "Nobody wants to spend for anything," which is misleading IMHO. The problem is not that people don't want to spend as much as it is that some elected officials want to spend way too much on the wrong things.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. In response to the OP, my comment is "No, the Stockton bankruptcy will not have political fallout on a new arena."

 

[Glenn]

I'm on Social Security and am on Medicare.

 

[kennadog]

I'm on Social Security and am on Medicare.

I'll be on SS soon, too. But I'll leave off the political discussion at that. I could get banned.

 

[NewKingsFan916]

I did not intend this to be a political discussion. I was just curious on your guys thoughts on how this relates specifically to the public's attitude towards using public funds for an Arena, which is going to be critical over the next year.

 

[VF21]

I'm on Social Security and am on Medicare.

So am I. NOT my point. Here's a definition of entitlement programs:

The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program. The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.

The problem with most entitlement programs is they are rife with mismanagement, fraud, etc. which leads to massive overspending.

I've already violated the rules of the board on politics enough, so I'm going to quit before I get an infraction from one of the other mods.

 

[PurpleHaze]

No political debate here I hope, but I don't consider social security retirement benefit an entitlement. It's an insurance policy that's paid in to for a guarantee of return, however paultry. Unfortunately, U.S. government raided the S.S. trust fund for wars, pet projects, etc., starting under LBJ and it's been in trouble since. Maybe we should have little "Soap Box" category just for such discussion - although it will always be Kings first and foremost I think everyone agrees.

Stockton and before it (about 4 yrs ago) Vallejo are bankrupt due to horrible leadership (of course voters elected them all) which gave public employees huge retirement contracts - even if you just worked for the city one day!! That's one stupid example reported. As far as "anti-tax" crowd. Count me as one since I am a Calif resident paying highest sales tax in nation on average (7.75% in Sac County - hey, it's zero in Oregon!), among highest state income tax in nation (whack another near 10% annual off my income), highest gasoline tax in U.S. with special fuel additive tax only in CA adding more), and on and on.

I figure I'm giving my fair share and more since only around 50% of working age Californian's actually file a tax return - to pay state and federal taxes. The rest don't because their reportable income is too small, they are disabled, or working in the state "illegally."

 

[kennadog]

No political debate here I hope, but I don't consider social security retirement benefit an entitlement. It's an insurance policy that's paid in to for a guarantee of return, however paultry. Unfortunately, U.S. government raided the S.S. trust fund for wars, pet projects, etc., starting under LBJ and it's been in trouble since. Maybe we should have little "Soap Box" category just for such discussion - although it will always be Kings first and foremost I think everyone agrees.

Stockton and before it (about 4 yrs ago) Vallejo are bankrupt due to horrible leadership (of course voters elected them all) which gave public employees huge retirement contracts - even if you just worked for the city one day!! That's one stupid example reported. As far as "anti-tax" crowd. Count me as one since I am a Calif resident paying highest sales tax in nation on average (7.75% in Sac County - hey, it's zero in Oregon!), among highest state income tax in nation (whack another near 10% annual off my income), highest gasoline tax in U.S. with special fuel additive tax only in CA adding more), and on and on.

I figure I'm giving my fair share and more since only around 50% of working age Californian's actually file a tax return - to pay state and federal taxes. The rest don't because their reportable income is too small, they are disabled, or working in the state "illegally."

I have worked with "illegals." Whole bunches of them are paying into social security medicare, state unemployment and disability and having taxes withheld. They will never benefit from any of what they pay in, in most cases. For social Security, they are often paying into someone's legitimate account, too, benefiting that person.

I've also seen estimates that say our food and clothing would probably double in price, without "illegal" workers. That doesn't even take into account that we get cheap products from low=paid, even abused labor in jobs sent overseas.

It is not a one-way street.

(I must stop)

 

[VF21]

Maybe we should have little "Soap Box" category just for such discussion - although it will always be Kings first and foremost I think everyone agrees.

We actually had a separate forum called the Foxhole that was dedicated to political discourse. It lasted a very short time before becoming a total and complete fiasco, with members who had been friends for years at each other's throats with increasingly hostile and vitriolic commentary. It was removed and the rule was initiated that the board would not tolerate discussion of issues that were divisive and non-Kings related.

I apologize to one and all for my own indiscretion in this matter. I know the rules and, what's more important, I'm fully aware of why they exist. I should not have responded.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I have worked with "illegals." Whole bunches of them are paying into social security medicare, state unemployment and disability and having taxes withheld. They will never benefit from any of what they pay in, in most cases. For social Security, they are often paying into someone's legitimate account, too, benefiting that person.

I've also seen estimates that say our food and clothing would probably double in price, without "illegal" workers. That doesn't even take into account that we get cheap products from low=paid, even abused labor in jobs sent overseas.

It is not a one-way street.

(I must stop)

I don't disagree that it's not a one-way street and did not imply that it was. But "whole bunches" is not all of them and not even the majority.

I'm hiring two illegal aliens (official US govt term used) for a landscaping job with plenty of hard labor this Saturday. They wanted $100 total and I provide everything except the labor. It's fairly rare occurance for me since I do most such home improvement labor but these two late 20s guys are more suited for this one since I'm nearly twice their age.
I found them in front of Home Depot and communicated in some Spanish plus broken English and did not try to low-ball them after they saw the project at my home.
I figure it works out to around $10/hr. for complete job.

They told me they jumped the fence near Nogales, AZ about seven years ago but may return home soon as they are having a very difficult time making ends meet with the economy still in recession in Calif. They were sending nearly half their under the table earnings back home but now can barely send any funds back to family in Mexico. One is single , one is married with two kids in California elementary school and gets other state supported benefits like Medi-Cal, etc. His wife is disabled and gets SSI -how that's possible I don't know? I am certain they get more out of the state coffers than they put into them. Still, they seem like honorable hard working guys and not drug dealers or involved in any criminal activity.

Ok, no more discussion on this from me...