Steve Kerr on Vlade

[John from Hemet]

I am equally happy that Vlade is a Laker and a well paid one too . And you better hope that Mihm is good player too. Because I dont see Vlade contributing much now. For us Vlade had a sentimental value, that was why most of the Kings fans prefered him here. But I think at the moment O'tag is a better player than Vlade. So have fun with the our old man. We are much better off anyway.

We are very happy with Mihm no doubt.....

As for lakers fans were are in a weird situation......when Vlade was last with us he was extremely raw and young.....he went away and grew up.....now he comes back to us as a aged veteran who provides a good locker room presense.....excellent passing ability.....size....and someone who can shoot away from the basket and hit free throws........

For limited minutes.....

 

[50pts]

I am equally happy that Vlade is a Laker and a well paid one too . And you better hope that Mihm is good player too. Because I dont see Vlade contributing much now. For us Vlade had a sentimental value, that was why most of the Kings fans prefered him here. But I think at the moment O'tag is a better player than Vlade. So have fun with the our old man. We are much better off anyway.

Ok i am not a laker fan by any stretch of the imagination but i simply cannot see how Ostertag is a better player then vlade...i respect your opinion but could you please explain how you have come up with this view. If ostertag was still in utah would you be saying the same thing or is it just because he plays for the kings you think he has become better then vlade.


YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Vlade 03-04 SAC 81 81 28.6 .470 .154 .654 1.70 4.00 5.70 5.3 .70 .95 2.14 2.70 9.9
Tag 03-04 UTA 78 51 27.6 .476 .000 .579 2.80 4.60 7.40 1.6 .38 1.78 1.27 2.90 6.8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Vlade played more games
- roughly same minutes
- roughly same FG tag has fg +0.006 but takes less jump shots
- vlade is a better FT shooter
- vlade can shoot a 3 although he usually will miss tag cant and wont
- tag gets a extra offensive rebound
- very similar in defensive rebounding slight edge to tag
- Vlade dishes out almost 4 assits more than tag a night!
- Vlade more steals per game
- tag better blocker
- vlade better assist to turnover ratio but tag less turnovers
- vlade has more ppg than tag

 

[Bricklayer]

Ok i am not a laker fan by any stretch of the imagination but i simply cannot see how Ostertag is a better player then vlade...i respect your opinion but could you please explain how you have come up with this view. If ostertag was still in utah would you be saying the same thing or is it just because he plays for the kings you think he has become better then vlade.


YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Vlade 03-04 SAC 81 81 28.6 .470 .154 .654 1.70 4.00 5.70 5.3 .70 .95 2.14 2.70 9.9
Tag 03-04 UTA 78 51 27.6 .476 .000 .579 2.80 4.60 7.40 1.6 .38 1.78 1.27 2.90 6.8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Vlade played more games
- roughly same minutes
- roughly same FG tag has fg +0.006 but takes less jump shots
- vlade is a better FT shooter
- vlade can shoot a 3 although he usually will miss tag cant and wont
- tag gets a extra offensive rebound
- very similar in defensive rebounding slight edge to tag
- Vlade dishes out almost 4 assits more than tag a night!
- Vlade more steals per game
- tag better blocker
- vlade better assist to turnover ratio but tag less turnovers
- vlade has more ppg than tag

It has become an apples and oranges comparison at this point. The key numbers are rebounds and blocks for Tag, and assists and points for Vlade. Tag makes an impact on the glass and defense, and Vlade makes an impact with his passing, and still has some offensive ability. On the other hand, Tag is a poor passer (although its interesting that he had by far and away his best assisting year last year) and offensive player, and Vlade has slipped badly as a rebounder and interior defender.

Apples and oranges. A few years ago there was no comprison. Vlade was still a solid rebounder and help defender, and of course by far and away superior on offense and passing. But with age Vlade's weaknesses have become almost as glaring as Tag's. He's still a better player, and certainly a more skilled one. But particularly when you are talking about bringing a guy in off the bench he may very well NOT have been a better player in that role.

 

[vladetomiller]

Definitely its apples and oranges, and i understand that some fans get excited about new players and rightly so. It would happen to any team and any player, the same here about vlade or tag. laker fans seem to think vlade is good for them and kings think tag is better for them. That given, i think stats cant really tell the tale and cant compare them given that the price is also different.

One interesting aspect that we need to consider is tag's stats as a sub and not as a starter. Then i think it makes it more even with the $ in mind, and the intangible could be the locker room presence that vlade could bring and whether he can still do that in LA. It was different with the kings where they accepted vlade as the leader and with the lakers, it is to be seen whether kobe/odom/grant respect vlade the same way. I really have doubts about kobe, cos he is really a very smart person (ok dont come back and say that he didnt make a smart decision last offseason) with high iq and a very good feel for the game. That sometimes makes him more arrogant and it is possible that he might not appreciate vlade's knowledge, but thats something only time can tell. At the same time the positive is that vlade is more experienced to handle those things and he was never demanding.

With the kings, it is also a problem with tag about the chemistry issues that he has had before, and it seemed like sloan/malone/utah players really didnt like that very much on the offensive end and for the mistakes that he would often make, like not catching the ball. But there is no doubt that he is a more of a defensive presence and an intimidator

 

[VF21]

You know what bothers me the most about all this? It's that somehow we have to belittle one player or the other...

Vlade was good for us. We loved him. He provided a lot of tangibles AND intangibles. Vlade left. It doesn't matter why. He left.

So, Petrie went out and got the best replacement back-up center he could find. I personally think he did an excellent job. That doesn't take away anything from Vlade Divac.

Shaq was good, very good, for the Lakers. He left. It doesn't matter why. The Lakers had to find the best possible replacement for him. There aren't a lot of Shaq's out there, so they had to look for a veteran, who could bring maturity, skill, etc. They made an offer to Vlade, which he accepted.

The Lakers are obviously going to be Kobe's team. Vlade will accept that. It's not about leadership and being THE MAN to Vlade.

Is Vlade going to be Shaq? No. Is Tag going to be Vlade? No.

Each team obtained the best player they could to fit their needs. It's really that simple.

 

[50pts]

It has become an apples and oranges comparison at this point. The key numbers are rebounds and blocks for Tag, and assists and points for Vlade. Tag makes an impact on the glass and defense, and Vlade makes an impact with his passing, and still has some offensive ability. On the other hand, Tag is a poor passer (although its interesting that he had by far and away his best assisting year last year) and offensive player, and Vlade has slipped badly as a rebounder and interior defender.

Apples and oranges. A few years ago there was no comprison. Vlade was still a solid rebounder and help defender, and of course by far and away superior on offense and passing. But with age Vlade's weaknesses have become almost as glaring as Tag's. He's still a better player, and certainly a more skilled one. But particularly when you are talking about bringing a guy in off the bench he may very well NOT have been a better player in that role.

yep totally agree, i just didnt agree with the assertion that ostertag is better than vlade (in that i am not saying vlade is better than ostertag).

 

[50pts]

Definitely its apples and oranges, and i understand that some fans get excited about new players and rightly so. It would happen to any team and any player, the same here about vlade or tag. laker fans seem to think vlade is good for them and kings think tag is better for them. That given, i think stats cant really tell the tale and cant compare them given that the price is also different.

One interesting aspect that we need to consider is tag's stats as a sub and not as a starter. Then i think it makes it more even with the $ in mind, and the intangible could be the locker room presence that vlade could bring and whether he can still do that in LA. It was different with the kings where they accepted vlade as the leader and with the lakers, it is to be seen whether kobe/odom/grant respect vlade the same way. I really have doubts about kobe, cos he is really a very smart person (ok dont come back and say that he didnt make a smart decision last offseason) with high iq and a very good feel for the game. That sometimes makes him more arrogant and it is possible that he might not appreciate vlade's knowledge, but thats something only time can tell. At the same time the positive is that vlade is more experienced to handle those things and he was never demanding.

With the kings, it is also a problem with tag about the chemistry issues that he has had before, and it seemed like sloan/malone/utah players really didnt like that very much on the offensive end and for the mistakes that he would often make, like not catching the ball. But there is no doubt that he is a more of a defensive presence and an intimidator

yeh in terms of defensive i think ostertag might bring some more toughness although i always like vlade's defensive IQ even if sometimes he wasn’t the toughest. Tag should be a good in short spurts but i cannot see him getting more than 15 mpg.

 

[50pts]

So, Petrie went out and got the best replacement back-up center he could find.

dont want to go off the topic but does anyone know hwat ostertags contract is worth? i recall hearing that it was infact more expensive than vlade's is that true??

 

[HndsmCelt]

dont want to go off the topic but does anyone know hwat ostertags contract is worth? i recall hearing that it was infact more expensive than vlade's is that true??

It is a 2 year contract witha player option for the second year. The detailes were not disclosed and there is some debate over weather or not the contract was a total contract for 4.5 mill or if it was 4 mill a year. I belive NME had asource he trusted that indicated it was 4.5 total which woudl make it similar to the offer made to Vlade. It hardly seems to amke sense to think the Kings would only offer Vlade 2.5 mil and then turn arround and offer Ostertag 4 mill.

 

[50pts]

It is a 2 year contract witha player option for the second year. The detailes were not disclosed and there is some debate over weather or not the contract was a total contract for 4.5 mill or if it was 4 mill a year. I belive NME had asource he trusted that indicated it was 4.5 total which woudl make it similar to the offer made to Vlade. It hardly seems to amke sense to think the Kings would only offer Vlade 2.5 mil and then turn arround and offer Ostertag 4 mill.

yeh thats what ive been hearing and if that’s true its hard to see tag being worth it cause his D isnt that much better than vlades and his offense is not close to vlades (in my opinion of course) . Perhaps there is more to it...but im all out of conspiracy theories

 

[Bricklayer]

His D isn't that much better than Vlades???

 

[50pts]

His D isn't that much better than Vlades???

no it isnt.

 

[slugking50]

no it isnt.

: scratches head :


Ummm ok.....

 

[VF21]

yeh thats what ive been hearing and if that’s true its hard to see tag being worth it cause his D isnt that much better than vlades and his offense is not close to vlades (in my opinion of course) .

50pts - I think you misunderstood Celt's point. He says it's most likely, and everyone pretty much agrees, that Tag signed a contract for two years for $4.5 mil. TOTAL - not $4.5 mil each year.

In addition, you are making the mistake of thinking that the Kings chose Tag over Vlade. That simply isn't true. Vlade made a decision. He left. Petrie looked around for the best option still available to get the Kings a decent back-up center and found Ostertag.

As far as Tag's defense not being "much better" than Vlade's, I hope I don't sound rude, but are you on crack?

Vlade Divac is not now and never was a defensive juggernaut. Ostertag may not be the best defensive center in the league but he'll be able to actually leap more than 2" into the air. He can block shots. He'll be a defensive presence inside that doesn't go by the nickname "floppy."

He was the right choice for the Kings to make to fill the gap caused by Divac's departure.

 

[50pts]

: scratches head :


Ummm ok.....

Im sorry if there is any misunderstanding and i repsect everyones view on this board.
so can i ask you : ummm ok what? what point are you trying to make?

 

[50pts]

50pts - I think you misunderstood Celt's point. He says it's most likely, and everyone pretty much agrees, that Tag signed a contract for two years for $4.5 mil. TOTAL - not $4.5 mil each year.

In addition, you are making the mistake of thinking that the Kings chose Tag over Vlade. That simply isn't true. Vlade made a decision. He left. Petrie looked around for the best option still available to get the Kings a decent back-up center and found Ostertag.

As far as Tag's defense not being "much better" than Vlade's, I hope I don't sound rude, but are you on crack?

Vlade Divac is not now and never was a defensive juggernaut. Ostertag may not be the best defensive center in the league but he'll be able to actually leap more than 2" into the air. He can block shots. He'll be a defensive presence inside that doesn't go by the nickname "floppy."

He was the right choice for the Kings to make to fill the gap caused by Divac's departure.

If they offered vlade 2.5 mil and then offered tag 4.5 mil it seems that they did choose tag over vlade because they were willing to pay tag more. kings managment think tag is worth more than vlade or why didnt they offer vlade 4.5 mil? Now notice i use the word "if" cause if that is not the case well than i guess vlade did choose to leave.

You do sound rude when you ask "are you on crack"...and im sure you know you sound rude but i guess its your choice how you want to talk to people who have different opinions to you. I can only wonder what would happen if i said that to you.... I have no interest in turning this into an "argument" so if you disagree i think you have made your point.

 

[VF21]

The point people are trying to make, quite frankly, is that at times it seems you must have very limited access to information about the Kings. The statements you make are way out there and totally unsupported by any kinds of facts.

 

[50pts]

50pts - I think you misunderstood Celt's point. He says it's most likely, and everyone pretty much agrees, that Tag signed a contract for two years for $4.5 mil. TOTAL - not $4.5 mil each year.

In addition, you are making the mistake of thinking that the Kings chose Tag over Vlade. That simply isn't true. Vlade made a decision. He left. Petrie looked around for the best option still available to get the Kings a decent back-up center and found Ostertag.

As far as Tag's defense not being "much better" than Vlade's, I hope I don't sound rude, but are you on crack?

Vlade Divac is not now and never was a defensive juggernaut. Ostertag may not be the best defensive center in the league but he'll be able to actually leap more than 2" into the air. He can block shots. He'll be a defensive presence inside that doesn't go by the nickname "floppy."

He was the right choice for the Kings to make to fill the gap caused by Divac's departure.

Just to add floppying is a sign of smart defense and it was enough to tick shaq off. I always said tag is a tougher defender but vlade is a smarter defender. that is why i only think tag is a bit better than vlade in D. Maybe the kings need a tougher defender if tag fills that void i will be happy but you cant ignore vlades defensive IQ.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just to add floppying is a sign of smart defense and it was enough to tick shaq off. I always said tag is a tougher defender but vlade is a smarter defender. that is why i only think tag is a bit better than vlade in D. Maybe the kings need a tougher defender if tag fills that void i will be happy but you cant ignore vlades defensive IQ.

Vlade's individual defense has slipped too, but not as much, and that's not the real issue. In the last couple of year's its been his HELP defense, shot blocking, intimidation etc. that are just totally gone. There is no comparison at all anymore to Tag, who is not an Alonzo Mourning intimidator but definitely makes people think twice about driving the lane. He helps EVERYBODY become a better defender by playing goalkeeper. Vlade just can't move or get off the ground at all to keep people away from the rim anymore.

 

[VF21]

If they offered vlade 2.5 mil and then offered tag 4.5 mil it seems that they did choose tag over vlade because they were willing to pay tag more. kings managment think tag is worth more than vlade or why didnt they offer vlade 4.5 mil? Now notice i use the word "if" cause if that is not the case well than i guess vlade did choose to leave.

You do sound rude when you ask "are you on crack"...and im sure you know you sound rude but i guess its your choice how you want to talk to people who have different opinions to you. I can only wonder what would happen if i said that to you...yes id probably get banned. I have no interest in turning this into an "argument" so if you disagree i think you have made your point.

They offered Vlade a certain amount to stay as backup center. He declined and left. They were then faced with the proposition of having to go out and find a backup center, because you can't really compete without one. They didn't want the cheapest one; they wanted one that would do the best possible job AS a backup. What had happened with Vlade was now over and done. Completely and totally...

Petrie found Tag. He is a VERY GOOD acquisition for the Kings and should fit very nicely into our team as a backup center. Petrie made the best deal he could. At that point, it makes absolutely no difference that the deal might have been close to what Vlade was offered. NONE.

Because you continue to make public comments after being warned privately repeatedly, I will make this comment publicly:

FROM VF21 the moderator: When I'm speaking as a fan, you have every right to disagree with me. If you continue to whine about possibly being banned, you will find it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.