Stat of the Night

Bricklayer said:
I'm not sure you have fully considered the inevitably pernicious spin that stat is going to be given.
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No Rondo, no Cuz doesn't hurt!!!

Obviously we need to move forward with a core of Seth and DC. Maaaaaybe keep Trill. We should get on the phone ASAP with The Lakers so that we can unload Cuz and hopefully get D 'Lo back!

....

There's your spin Brick! Muhahaha!


(Please don't ban me!)
 
I loved this game. The first time we beat anyone fairly easily without Cousins in years. I liked the team play. Seven players in double figures.

I don't care if we lose the pick this year BTW. We either lose this years or next years. The only way we gain anything is to continue losing for the next two years. So just win and let the picks go.
 
Siranthony said:
I loved this game. The first time we beat anyone fairly easily without Cousins in years. I liked the team play. Seven players in double figures.

I don't care if we lose the pick this year BTW. We either lose this years or next years. The only way we gain anything is to continue losing for the next two years. So just win and let the picks go.
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Next year it turns into a 2nd rounder doesn't it?
 
KingMilz said:
Next year it turns into a 2nd rounder doesn't it?
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No. Still top ten protected first round next year. If it still does not convey next year then it converts to two second round picks the year after that. The minus to losing this years pick is losing the pick this year. And if we are terrible next year then we could get another pick next year. So -1 pick in that scenario if we continue to lose. But losing our pick this year protects our 2018 pick in the top 10. But again we have to be losing to benefit. So either way we have to lose to gain more picks. With this years draft being pretty weak outside the top three or so, I would rather pick next year anyway. We will have a first round pick next year if we convey this years pick. If we do happen to pick this year then I won't complain. It's probably slightly to our benefit to pick this year. But winning a few games may help more in the long run.
 
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Bricklayer said:
I'm not sure you have fully considered the inevitably pernicious spin that stat is going to be given.
Click to expand...

Not gonna lie - I thought about it. But out of respect for a game well played I left it alone. Plus, I am totally sick of the the finger pointing and division associated with this team.
 
WHY are we winning ? Owners too cheap to pay a potential 1st round draft pick ?

Oh wait! That was a Magoof's trick...
 
Siranthony said:
No. Still top ten protected first round next year. If it still does not convey next year then it converts to two second round picks the year after that. The minus to losing this years pick is losing the pick this year. And if we are terrible next year then we could get another pick next year. So -1 pick in that scenario if we continue to lose. But losing our pick this year protects our 2018 pick in the top 10. But again we have to be losing to benefit. So either way we have to lose to gain more picks. With this years draft being pretty weak outside the top three or so, I would rather pick next year anyway. We will have a first round pick next year if we convey this years pick. If we do happen to pick this year then I won't complain. It's probably slightly to our benefit to pick this year. But winning a few games may help more in the long run.
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One thing your leaving out of the equation is where were picking. Right now, were picking at seven, which is protected. Worse case scenario is we move to eleven, which is unlikely, and we lose the pick. Next year we could be greatly improved, and end up in the playoffs, with our draft pick being somewhere between fifteen and twenty-five. So we would lose a much worse pick. At least on paper. Now you could argue that there's not much difference between the eleventh pick and the twenty-fifth pick, but personally, I'd rather take my chances with the eleventh pick.

Look, I'm not saying you have to root for us to lose, but I'd rather keep the pick, especially if we end up seventh. This team needs help now, not next year or the year after. For me, I can't help but get caught up in the excitement of winning a game, but at the same time, because of our draft situation, losing becomes more palatable.
 
bajaden said:
One thing your leaving out of the equation is where were picking. Right now, were picking at seven, which is protected. Worse case scenario is we move to eleven, which is unlikely, and we lose the pick. Next year we could be greatly improved, and end up in the playoffs, with our draft pick being somewhere between fifteen and twenty-five. So we would lose a much worse pick. At least on paper. Now you could argue that there's not much difference between the eleventh pick and the twenty-fifth pick, but personally, I'd rather take my chances with the eleventh pick.

Look, I'm not saying you have to root for us to lose, but I'd rather keep the pick, especially if we end up seventh. This team needs help now, not next year or the year after. For me, I can't help but get caught up in the excitement of winning a game, but at the same time, because of our draft situation, losing becomes more palatable.
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It is amazingly difficult to root for losing. My view on what this team needs is a guard and there seem to be quite a few of decent to great guards available this year in the draft be they SG, PG, or PG/SG. I very much want to keep this pick this year. If, as many assume, a new coach and a little tweaking here and there plus that draft pick turns us into a very competitive team, this year may be the last year we can get a decent player in the draft.

This may just be a paraphrase of what bajaden just wrote.
 
gunks said:
Howbout,

We all root for us to win......And we also root for all the other scrubby teams to win so that we dont jump them in the standings!

Problem solved!
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This is a very good idea but I hope you realize that our rooting does not effect the game. :)
 
Bricklayer said:
I'm not sure you have fully considered the inevitably pernicious spin that stat is going to be given.
Click to expand...

Sure I have. The first thing that came to mind is that the stat should not be surprising since Cuz and Rondo weren't playing. Wanting a lower turnover rate is wanting to give our Kings a better chance of winning more often. And that's what I want.
 
REAL Stat of the night:
Malone had been done dirty by Vivek and the Kings organization, so he wanted to gift the Kings a win which hurts their draft position.
 
bajaden said:
One thing your leaving out of the equation is where were picking. Right now, were picking at seven, which is protected. Worse case scenario is we move to eleven, which is unlikely, and we lose the pick. Next year we could be greatly improved, and end up in the playoffs, with our draft pick being somewhere between fifteen and twenty-five. So we would lose a much worse pick. At least on paper. Now you could argue that there's not much difference between the eleventh pick and the twenty-fifth pick, but personally, I'd rather take my chances with the eleventh pick.

Look, I'm not saying you have to root for us to lose, but I'd rather keep the pick, especially if we end up seventh. This team needs help now, not next year or the year after. For me, I can't help but get caught up in the excitement of winning a game, but at the same time, because of our draft situation, losing becomes more palatable.
Click to expand...

I'm a little surprised you chose to bring up this argument in a whimsical thread devoted to a rare win and an even rarer accomplishment in regards to turnovers. Against all odds, our Kings managed to gut out a win ...

I will NEVER root for a loss and it's not palatable to me when you consider how hard those guys played IN
FREAKING DENVER on the second night of a back-to-back without DMC, Rondo or Omri. (I'm aware I'm not including Marco in that list).

They deserved the win and they certainly deserve some attaboys from the fans.
 
Glenn said:
This is a very good idea but I hope you realize that our rooting does not effect the game. :)
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Says who? Sorry Glenn, but I'm not ever going to believe that my cheering and rooting all the way from here in the middle of the forest doesn't send some kind of psychic energy surge to our Kings.

:)
 
Is it sacrilegious to note that Rondo and Cousins are both among the league leaders in turnovers? I don't get it.,.
 
I just cannot see why people object to losing these last few games and keeping the pick. Sure we lose a few games now but it gives us a chance to add a good piece. Winning 35 games and losing your pick would be the worst thing that can happen right now. Kriss Dunn would be a nice piece to put behind Darren next season.
 
G_M said:
Is it sacrilegious to note that Rondo and Cousins are both among the league leaders in turnovers? I don't get it.,.
Click to expand...

Other players amongst the lead leaders in turnovers (averagign 3.0+ this season):

James Harden #6 assists, #2 scoring
Russel Westbrook #2 in Assists, #7 scoring
John Wall #3 in Assists
Rajon Rondo #1 in assists
DeMarcus Cousins #4 scoring
Kevin Durant #3 scoring
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight
Stephen Curry #1 scoring
Damian Lillard #5 scoring
Paul George #9 scoring
Lebron James #10 assists, #6 scoring
Emmanuel Mudiay
Draymond Green #7 assists
Kyle Lowry #13 scoring

Aside from the Phoenix boys, who weren't exactly playing winning ball this season, does anything on there stand out as aberrant? Chris Paul is a rare bird. In general the more you have the ball and the more you create, the more you turn it over.


Just as importantly we've played Denver 3 times in 6 weeks, won all 3, and scored 116, 114 with Rajon and Cousins, and now 115 without them. Which of course some jackass can take and say see? We don't need them! But which would generally answer the charge that damn they turn it over so we looooose!!! :( :( :(

People have to quit looking for scapegoats at some point. If you know the game you know main scoring weapons and main creative assistmen rack up turnovers. That's part of it. Especially when you are playing in a wacky undisciplined paceball system
 
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Bricklayer said:
Other players amongst the lead leaders in turnovers (averagign 3.0+ this season):

James Harden #6 assists, #2 scoring
Russel Westbrook #2 in Assists, #7 scoring
John Wall #3 in Assists
Rajon Rondo #1 in assists
DeMarcus Cousins #4 scoring
Kevin Durant #3 scoring
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight
Stephen Curry #1 scoring
Damian Lillard #5 scoring
Paul George #9 scoring
Lebron James #10 assists, #6 scoring
Emmanuel Mudiay
Draymond Green #7 assists
Kyle Lowry #13 scoring

Aside from the Phoenix boys, who weren't exactly playing winning ball this season, does anything on there stand out as aberrant? Chris Paul is a rare bird. In general the more you have the ball and the more you create, the more you turn it over.


Just as importantly we've played Denver 3 times in 6 weeks, won all 3, and scored 116, 114 with Rajon and Cousins, and now 115 without them. Which of course some jackass can take and say see? We don't need them! But which would generally answer the charge that damn they turn it over so we looooose!!! :( :( :(

People have to quit looking for scapegoats at some point. If you know the game you know main scoring weapons and main creative assistmen rack up turnovers. That's part of it. Especially when you are playing in a wacky undisciplined paceball system
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So?
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Perhaps because the Kings haven't fared too well in the draft in recent years AND some are tired of the albatross of owing that pick? Whether you agree with it or not, it is a valid reason to object.
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Plus, if we lose the pick we have more money for other moves.
 
Bricklayer said:
Other players amongst the lead leaders in turnovers (averagign 3.0+ this season):

James Harden #6 assists, #2 scoring
Russel Westbrook #2 in Assists, #7 scoring
John Wall #3 in Assists
Rajon Rondo #1 in assists
DeMarcus Cousins #4 scoring
Kevin Durant #3 scoring
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight
Stephen Curry #1 scoring
Damian Lillard #5 scoring
Paul George #9 scoring
Lebron James #10 assists, #6 scoring
Emmanuel Mudiay
Draymond Green #7 assists
Kyle Lowry #13 scoring

Aside from the Phoenix boys, who weren't exactly playing winning ball this season, does anything on there stand out as abstand
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm just trying to figure out when turnovers cross the line from a side effect to a problem.
 
jcwkings said:
I just cannot see why people object to losing these last few games and keeping the pick. Sure we lose a few games now but it gives us a chance to add a good piece. Winning 35 games and losing your pick would be the worst thing that can happen right now. Kriss Dunn would be a nice piece to put behind Darren next season.
Click to expand...
People who pay money to see games object if the team they are following isn't trying to win. That is probably why Boogie is not playing in away games and will play at home. The Kings FO at least understands the needs of the people paying all the money.
 
pshn80 said:
So?
Click to expand...

Noting that Cousins and Rondo have a lot of turnovers is functionally the same thing as noting that they are 4th in scoring and leading the league in assists.

Magic Johnson averaged 11.2 ast/gm over his career. His career TOs? 3.9
John Stockton averaged 11.9 ast/gm over his career. His career TOs? 3.2
Rajon Rondo is averaging 11.6 ast/gm this season. His TOs? 3.9

There is nothing aberrant or particularly problematic about Rajon's TOs this year. You get a big assistman, you get a big turnover man.

As for Boogie, he leads the league in usage, OF COURSE he has a lot of turnovers. Here are the Top 10 players in the NBA in USG%, with their TOs/100 possessions.

USG_Player_TO/100
35.4 Cousins 5.3 = USG/TO 6.67
32.5 Curry 4.7 = USG/TO 6.91
32.4 Harden 6.0 = USG/TO 5.40
31.9 Wade 4.7 = USG/TO 6.78
31.8 Westrbook 6.0 = USG/TO 5.30
31.5 James 4.6 = USG/TO 6.85
31.4 Lillard 4.6 = USG/TO 6.83
31.0 Bryant 3.5 = USG/TO 8.86
30.5 Durant 4.8 = USG/TO 6.35
30.5 George 4.6 = USG/TO 6.63

So again, there is nothign aberrant about Boogie's turnovers. they are exactly where they should be for a player with his usage rate.


This is not why we struggle. And indeed as that article the other day pointed out, when both our TO guys are on the court at the same time we have a Top 10 offense. Its not a major issue.
 
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