=LarryLegend=
Starter
The big fella did have a nice dunk...
Spencer Hawes shows a glimmer of hope for some...but not others
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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L
Lafayette
Guest
Shouldve played him a bit earlier, they were getting killed on the boards. I think he played well when he was in.
Castasic
G-League
I agree that he played well in the minutes he had. Spence should take this as a reality check and earn his minutes back after he has come off the bench for a good number of games.
captain bill
All-Star
trading spence makes no sense at this point. hes shown signs of life and is 7 feet tall and what...20 years old? unless we get a very good center in return, theres really no point. he good be a very good player in a 3 man big rotation. i dont think him or jt will be legit stars, but they could compliment one extremely well.
Chupacabra
Starter
I enjoyed his enthusiasm tonight. He showed good maturity playing with effort while coming off the bench. He looked a bit hesitant to shoot the ball tonight. We want you to shoot Spencer, as long as you pass on the 3 pointers.
Kings Faithful
Starter
I think it was a good experience for him. I say we bring him off the bench for a few weeks and see what happens. He might be too young to have the pressure of being a starting Center for an NBA basketball team. Coming off the bench might throw our lineups off a little bit by putting Jason at C... but if it does, it's as easy as putting him in the game to fix it.
Nighthawk1
Starter
Spence coming off the bench is where he needs to play right now and probably for the rest of the season. He plays harder and motivated off the bench. He needs someone to compete with for his starting job
So how many rebounds did he have last night? He did nothing IMO. He had a big slam that seemed to me to be letting out a little frustration. When the cameras were on him when he was on the bench he appeared to be stewing over there.
I have been a big fan of Spencers, but this is pro sports. Get on the court and do something, and that something the team needs more than anything is for him to REBOUND and play some defense.
He can not play 25-30 minutes and have 3 stinking rebounds.
I have been a big fan of Spencers, but this is pro sports. Get on the court and do something, and that something the team needs more than anything is for him to REBOUND and play some defense.
He can not play 25-30 minutes and have 3 stinking rebounds.
DocHolliday
Starter
I have to agree with you here. Ok he had a dunk. On defense he still looked soft. I still saw him roaming to the permiter. He was pushed around every single time in the pain on defense. In my opinion Coach W and Petrie made it clear this last off season by their draft picks that they are building a tough team. If Hawes can't gain some strength and toughen up then he won't fit here eventually. Either that, or he will be a backup Center.
Jespher
Starter
Well Spencer only played for 8 minutes this game, and grabbed 2 rebounds in his stint. He was pretty effective, and showed an enthusiasm and toughness that has been lacking from his game recently.
kupman
Starter
I am very impressed with Westphal. Sitting Hawes arse on the bench is exactly what needed to happen and probably needs to continue. I have been a Hawes supporter since he was drafted and am still excited about his prospects. But, he clearly is not ready to get big minutes in the NBA yet.
Sitting him down will take some presuure off him and it will give some more minutes to our other young prospects. It is a great move even if it does mean that we need to play small ball for awhile.
Also, as dissapointed as I have been in Hawes poor play I maintain that being patient with him could reward us in the future. he is currently #16 in scoring and around #20 in rbs among centers. that is not horrible for a 21 year old. having said that, if his numbers and play are the same in 3 years I will be extremely dissappointed.
Sitting him down will take some presuure off him and it will give some more minutes to our other young prospects. It is a great move even if it does mean that we need to play small ball for awhile.
Also, as dissapointed as I have been in Hawes poor play I maintain that being patient with him could reward us in the future. he is currently #16 in scoring and around #20 in rbs among centers. that is not horrible for a 21 year old. having said that, if his numbers and play are the same in 3 years I will be extremely dissappointed.
I just remember him and Noc going after the same rebound and Spencer so easily let it go so Noc could have it. Now i know you dont want teammates fighting over the same ball, but damn it, get the attitude that this ball is mine and no little player is taking it from me.
I know he only played 8 minutes, but I guess I was not impressed at all. Now in fairness to Spencer, the offense brings him up to the free throw line time and time again, then when a shot goers up, he is not in position.
Hell, how many rebounds did Sergio get last night..... probably more than Spencer.
I know he only played 8 minutes, but I guess I was not impressed at all. Now in fairness to Spencer, the offense brings him up to the free throw line time and time again, then when a shot goers up, he is not in position.
Hell, how many rebounds did Sergio get last night..... probably more than Spencer.
S
sactownfan
Guest
spence played alright.... tonight.... he needs to stay on the bench and we STILL NEED A REAL 5!!!
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If I remember that one correctly, it was uncontested by the Wiz, and Hawes could see that it was Nocioni he was deferring to. And Nocioni wasn't deferring. Frankly, in a situation like that I'd much rather see Hawes let Nocioni take it than scrap to try to pad his rebounding stats and take a 10% chance of knocking an uncontested rebound out of bounds.
Sergio had 0 rebounds last night. Hawes, in his short stint, had the second-highest rebounds per minute on the team last night (Thompson was first).
hardware_failure
G-League
Yes, let Hawes come off the bench please. Props to the coaching staff for not staring him last night, but tsk tsk for starting him so much in past games. The Kings would likely have a better record right now if he didnt start so much.
If coming off the bench makes Hawes a little pissed off.... GOOD! Its clear lack of aggression/softness is a huge weakness for him and anything to get him riled up will help. I agree he has potential but hes not a rookie anymore and its time to man up.
Edit: I forgot to add that I think the reason the coaching staff has started him so much is to accelerate his development, at the cost of losing a slight bit of overall production from the team. THE KINGS ARE 10-3 AT HOME, the time for that is OVER.
If coming off the bench makes Hawes a little pissed off.... GOOD! Its clear lack of aggression/softness is a huge weakness for him and anything to get him riled up will help. I agree he has potential but hes not a rookie anymore and its time to man up.
Edit: I forgot to add that I think the reason the coaching staff has started him so much is to accelerate his development, at the cost of losing a slight bit of overall production from the team. THE KINGS ARE 10-3 AT HOME, the time for that is OVER.
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If I remember that one correctly, it was uncontested by the Wiz, and Hawes could see that it was Nocioni he was deferring to. And Nocioni wasn't deferring. Frankly, in a situation like that I'd much rather see Hawes let Nocioni take it than scrap to try to pad his rebounding stats and take a 10% chance of knocking an uncontested rebound out of bounds.
Spencer so easily let it go so Noc could have it. Now i know you dont want teammates fighting over the same ball,
I said that in my post, but i wonder why Noc wasnt deferring??? because it is a mondset. rebounding is also a mindset, and Spencer needs to change his attitude on rebounding.
Spencer so easily let it go so Noc could have it. Now i know you dont want teammates fighting over the same ball,
I said that in my post, but i wonder why Noc wasnt deferring??? because it is a mondset. rebounding is also a mindset, and Spencer needs to change his attitude on rebounding.
If I remember that one correctly, it was uncontested by the Wiz, and Hawes could see that it was Nocioni he was deferring to. And Nocioni wasn't deferring. Frankly, in a situation like that I'd much rather see Hawes let Nocioni take it than scrap to try to pad his rebounding stats and take a 10% chance of knocking an uncontested rebound out of bounds.
Spencer so easily let it go so Noc could have it. Now i know you dont want teammates fighting over the same ball,
I said that in my post, but i wonder why Noc wasnt deferring??? because it is a mondset. rebounding is also a mindset, and Spencer needs to change his attitude on rebounding.
Spencer so easily let it go so Noc could have it. Now i know you dont want teammates fighting over the same ball,
I said that in my post, but i wonder why Noc wasnt deferring??? because it is a mondset. rebounding is also a mindset, and Spencer needs to change his attitude on rebounding.
The point isn't that Spence "let it go so Noc could have it"...the point is that a KING got it.
What was frustrating early in the season was Kings players battling and canceling each other out for boards, leading to rebounds for the other team. That's happening less because the team is learning to communicate with each other.
And again, as has been mentioned, he had two rebounds in only 8 minutes of play. That translates to 12 per 48 and that's totally within the parameters of acceptability.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Until Hawes learns and practices defending down in the paint and learns to switch to the middle during other team layup drills, he will be up and down in playing time (or not). His basic makeup is all offense. But last two games he appears afraid to pass much and never (almost never) attacks the basket. I think he is confused now and trying to find out how to fit when he is no longer the first option. If he could ever get a transfusion of The Brockness attitude, he could be another Pau Gasol. If not............................ 
Kings Faithful
Starter
Even though he didn't play much and didn't do all that much stat wise, if I remember correct he was part of the spark and energy in the 3rd quarter that gave us our lead back.
Im not trying to turn this into some argument, but I missed out onw hat you are saying. I have been a Spencer fan, but last night for the first time, i was actually happy he wasnt starting.
Then when he came in the game, what exactly did he do to provide a spark?
he had 2 boards, but I bet if I looked back at the game, they likely were the type that fell in his lap.
He had 1 dunk.
What else did he do? Did he play great d on anyone? Did he provide weak side help and get a block?
I just didnt see him do anything that any other player couldnt have done by simply being on the floor.
I simply want to see the same guy that was flying all over the court last season blocking shots and rebounding. I have not seen that guy this year.
Then when he came in the game, what exactly did he do to provide a spark?
he had 2 boards, but I bet if I looked back at the game, they likely were the type that fell in his lap.
He had 1 dunk.
What else did he do? Did he play great d on anyone? Did he provide weak side help and get a block?
I just didnt see him do anything that any other player couldnt have done by simply being on the floor.
I simply want to see the same guy that was flying all over the court last season blocking shots and rebounding. I have not seen that guy this year.
I think the only difference between us is one of expectations. You're expecting to see a Hawes without mistakes, full of confidence and swagger.
I'm not expecting that to happen over night. What Hawes has been going through is a tangible crisis of confidence IMHO and based on what I've heard. It's going to take a while for him to get that confidence back and until he does, he's not going to be the player you saw last season.
Since people have zeroed in on every single mistake the poor kid has made this season, I think it's only fair that he receive at least a little credit when he at least tries and doesn't act as though he's his own - and the Kings - worst enemy when he's on the court.
We both want him to do well. I'm just willing to let him take a while to get his head on straight, knowing that he desperately wants to do so.
As far as what he did on the court, read Brickie's grades. I think he summarizes it pretty well.
EDIT: Oops, my bad. Brick hasn't posted the Hawes part yet. I guess I'm so used to having faith in his post-game assessments that I knew in my heart he would be right on about Spencer.
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Im hardly expecting him to be perfect. i was SCREAMING on this board prior to the season starting that Donte should see huge minutes knowing full well he would make many mistakes.
This si no longer Spencers rookie season, this is his third year in the NBA, and you would expect to see some progress.
I dont think Spencer ever lacked confidence, up until just recently. He might have even been too confident, which is why he likes to shoot the 3.
I said from day 1 that i dont have any great expectations for this team (although their play makes me reevaluate that statement) so I can handle mistakes.
In any event, it doesnt really matter, because if he doesnt get his butt in gear, it looks like Westphal will have his Butt on the bench.
Wont I dont want to see is him on the bench pouting. You dont see donte do it, but I thought I saw Spencer doing it last night when they put the camera on him.
This si no longer Spencers rookie season, this is his third year in the NBA, and you would expect to see some progress.
I dont think Spencer ever lacked confidence, up until just recently. He might have even been too confident, which is why he likes to shoot the 3.
I said from day 1 that i dont have any great expectations for this team (although their play makes me reevaluate that statement) so I can handle mistakes.
In any event, it doesnt really matter, because if he doesnt get his butt in gear, it looks like Westphal will have his Butt on the bench.
Wont I dont want to see is him on the bench pouting. You dont see donte do it, but I thought I saw Spencer doing it last night when they put the camera on him.
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I don't want to see that either - and I didn't see it last night, and as I remarked in the game thread, I was keeping as close an eye as possible on Hawes to look for things like that. At one point in the game, Grant and Jerry even touched on Hawes and his attitude last night and how he came in and gave eight GOOD minutes of basketball. When Westphal took him out, I'm sure Spence was disappointed and you did see that reflected on his face, but I didn't see him pouting on the bench.
We may be viewing the same things differently or interpreting them based on what we're looking for or expecting to see. It happens.
I'll just say that, for me, Hawes' performance last night was a step back in the right direction and leave it at that, hoping the game against the Wolves shows more of the same.
GO KINGS!!!
Padrino
All-Star
hawes is so unfortunately up-and-down. he's like a massive heart attack at the center position. you never know which spencer is gonna show up. when the matchups seem to favor his talents, he manages to play very poorly. when you figure he's gonna get eaten alive, sometimes he manages to hold his own. i really don't get the guy. there are so few big men in the nba with true low-post skill (brook lopez, as an aside, has impressed me so far this season), and maybe spencer really is just too soft to assert himself down low consistently. i hope that's not the case, but this is his third year in the nba. he's gotta start making more than just one step in a positive direction after taking two steps back every other game. his already-shaky confidence needs some kinda boost before he runs himself down so much that he loses out on a productive career of playing at a high level. its certainly not his minutes. apart from his minimal playing time last night, he's received lots of time on the court so far this season. and its certainly not his touches. tyreke gets him the ball consistently in his spots, but often spencer robs 'reke of what should be stat-padding in the assist column. spencer really just needs to sack up, ignore the past, and really push at this basketball thing. it is the nba, after all. he's gotta work for it if he wants it. i question how much he wants it.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
See, I was thinking about this too, and up until maybe a couple of days ago, I thought the same thing. I think Spencer's problem is that he just thinks too much on the court. He has to relax. He is too worried about messing up that he just can't have any flow to his game. Sometimes I think he wants it too much, even though he may not show it. I thought yesterdays dunk was more than just a dunk. It was a statement from him, not to anyone, but to himself. He can play in this league, and he has excellent talent. I just hope he doesn't rob himself of it by thinking too much.
I thought yesterdays dunk was more than just a dunk. It was a statement from him
That is EXACTLY what entered my mind the second it happened, but I thought it was a statement to others. I felt he was pissed about sitting(look at him on the bench prior to him coming into the game, he was not happy) then his dunk was put down emphatically. I cant remember him doing that before. Westphal was definitely sending Spencer a message, regardless of what he said about match ups. I think that message to Spence was " We need more from you!!!!!"
That is EXACTLY what entered my mind the second it happened, but I thought it was a statement to others. I felt he was pissed about sitting(look at him on the bench prior to him coming into the game, he was not happy) then his dunk was put down emphatically. I cant remember him doing that before. Westphal was definitely sending Spencer a message, regardless of what he said about match ups. I think that message to Spence was " We need more from you!!!!!"
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