Spencer Hawes has more offensive skills......

[HndsmCelt]

Personally I think he will develop in to...



































...Spencer Hawes
I really hate the endless comparions. Let the Kid become who he will become and judge him for who he is not who he is not.

 

[kupman]

I really hate the endless comparions. Let the Kid become who he will become and judge him for who he is not who he is not.

Thanks dude.....I really needed that.

 

[Spike]

edit:
Ha! I got you before you edited!


second edit:

I like cheese. No further discussion necessary.

 

[rockeastwood]

Didn't realize his shot was so sweet. First thing I thought of when we drafted him was Joe Klien

Can't wait to him in the Kings Jersey.

ROY candidate? He should get plenty of playing time to contend for it. Ok, I gone to far. Well, I hope so anyways.

 

[Gary]

??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.

I am actually beginning to like the pick ONLY (and this is a BIG ONLY) if we put a top tier PF next to him. I am talking top 8 in the league PF....

Like: Dirk, Brand, Duncan, Boozer, Garnett, Amare, Howard, and I know I am forgetting a couple, but this is off the top of my head. Of course I would rather have an Elton Brand, Howard, or Okafor type player next to him more-so than a Dirk, Boozer, or Amare.

By "type player" I mean someone that is an elite rebounder, shot blocker, and that can score a little (does not need to get 20 a game)

 

[Gary]

6) Second point though, and a little counter to that last, is I wonder about Hawes' upside compared to almost any other kid his age. Here's why: he has all the skills already. Normally when you talk about upside for a kid its in anticipation that he will develop skills to go with an already impressive physical package. Give him a few years, let him work on his jumper/post moves or whatever, and start dreaming. But Spenser already has all of that. And I do mean almost all of it. Jumpers, post moves, can handle, can pass. His skills are already complete. As always can refine or whatnot, but other than adding a three point shot (which I would rather he did NOT) he's already got almost everything you could learn in a gym anyway (and no doubt through endless work in a gym, probably playing against his dad since about age 5 -- just guessing). So the whole potential thing is twisted.

Supposedly Hawes played a lot of guard before reaching full height which is a plus, and probally why he has a better shot than rebounding skill.

 

[fnordius]

How much do I trust highlights?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zCMNzTyzfU

 

[SacTownKid]

??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.

Not to me! I must be watching different games then everybody else or something. Even at this strength level Hawes is holding his own on D. He has been facing awkward matchups as well. Fast guys like Balkman, huge guys like Morris, outside guys, and more. I have been pleasently surprised considering all the garbage talk on the dude.

 

[Bricklayer]

He has been facing awkward matchups as well.

Well gee, I am sure am glad he won't be facing any of those in the NBA. He can be our specialist Michael Doleac stopper.

I have been pleasently surprised considering all the garbage talk on the dude.

No you haven't. You can't be surprised when you are bound and determined to your conclusion before you even start. If we sign Danny Fortson tommorow you'll be "pleasantly surprised" by what a great guy he is. Because we signed him, and you have made a conscious decision to love whatever we do, no matter how asinine.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well gee, I am sure am glad he won't be facing any of those in the NBA. He can be our specialist Michael Doleac stopper.



No you haven't. You can't be surprised when you are bound and determined to your conclusion before you even start. If we sign Danny Fortson tommorow you'll be "pleasantly surprised" by what a great guy he is. Because we signed him, and you have made a conscious decision to love whatever we do, no matter how asinine.

And you have continued to hate every single thing this franchise does no matter what it is. But hey, I don't blame you, it's the safest bet in the race to, "I told you so". You'd rather bash every single thing, watch it fail, and act as if you predicted the "big one".

I could look at things the way you do I guess. But I don't know if I would be a Kings fan at that point.

People were pawning this guy off to be a complete stiff! Well, I can honestly say I haven't seen the stiff yet. Nowhere did I make any unrealistic statements about his athletic skill.

 

[mac]

Is there really a need to make it seem as if you're the only person on the board with an opinion that matters? (not targetted specificically at anyone, forgive me if this seems like whining)

Anyway on to the topic, yes his offensive skills are rather impressive. But he needs to post up nearer to the basket, or he'll end up shooting fade away jump shots all the time.

 

[slugking50]

Hahahahahaha.

This video is VERY misleading.

Hawes looked absolutely pathetic in the game against the Knicks and also the game before that.

I could make a video of Greg Ostertag's made buckets and make him look like a star.

Watching Spencer Hawes play in the summer league is unbelievably painful, especially Live, since you cannot fast forward.

The guy has a cute little jumpshot but don't expect anything else from him.


Ugh, next Vlade? My @ss

< makes note not to hire Juicy J as GM if he ever owned a team >

 

[gunks]

Well, he's done just as good if not better then Oden and Durant in summer league....SO.....

Hawes>>>>>Oden/Durant

 

[Emma]

Well, he's done just as good if not better then Oden and Durant in summer league....SO.....

Hawes>>>>>Oden/Durant

Agreed , and yes, he will be ROY. Called my shot.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Is there really a need to make it seem as if you're the only person on the board with an opinion that matters? (not targetted specificically at anyone, forgive me if this seems like whining)

Anyway on to the topic, yes his offensive skills are rather impressive. But he needs to post up nearer to the basket, or he'll end up shooting fade away jump shots all the time.

He might be able to if he was strong enough to establish position down low.

 

[Kingster]

A number of points here:

1) first of all the above is not really true. NONE of these kids has worked with NBA strength and conditioning programs. Some of them are nonetheless able to board/defend. That Hawes does not, compared to his peers at the same point in their careers, is quite significant. they will get better too at the same time he does.

2) and in addition, as the son of an NBAer, a guy who has obviosuly developed very sophisticated post moves and whatnot through extensive coaching, and has been ont eh edges of the NBA world since birth, I would say its far MORE likely that Hawes has exposed to that sort of program than soem raw kid out of Africa or whatnot. That goes for all that plyometics stuff too. That's hardly cutting edge, and any top athlete knows about it. One who has trqained his whole life for the role is quite likely to already be using it to some degree too.

3) I am actually a bit nonplussed about it to some degree, as Hawes is more mobile than advertised, and has good length. Physically, he should be able to do better. At a certain point it comes down to mentality/knack. Just as some people see the game as scorers, some see it as rebounders/defenders (see Justin for example). Switch the two guys from body to body and I suspect they largely switch roles (although Justin would probably have a hard time staying in the NBA in Hawes' body).

4) Hawes absolutely needs to get stronger. Randolph Morris, who is maybe a year older and a fringe NBAer at best just put his shoulder into him and bulldozed him wherever he wanted to go. But I would be a bit nervous about Spenser bulking up. He is already a shaky athlete. If he threw on 20lbs to bang with, it could tip the scales toward bad. Might make him settle into the post more though.

5) which brings me to a point which may sound unfair, actually two of them:
First, I think Hawes may actually suffer from having TOO many skills on offense. Or too many things he can do to some degree, but not dominantly. Sounds odd, but watching him attack it seems like he has a shot for every occasion form wherever on the floor. That should be a good thing, is a good thing in a lot of ways, but it actually impresses me that maybe its not. He ends up taking the first shot in his repertoire from wherever, rather than working to get to his spot on the floor, a prime spot. Would almost be better if he did not feel comfortable from everywhere so he would be induced to go where he has the biggest advantage. Hence if he gained weight, might almost help him to get dedicated to the post. In any case, looking forward, I could see this being perhaps the area of greatest growth for him. Simply learning how to use it, how to organize his attack. Rather than taking first shot, how to use one set of skills against the big slow guys, another against smaller guys. Again, properly organized and used, versatility like his is a huge plus and something many stars have. Right now, first impression is that its almost too much.

6) Second point though, and a little counter to that last, is I wonder about Hawes' upside compared to almost any other kid his age. Here's why: he has all the skills already. Normally when you talk about upside for a kid its in anticipation that he will develop skills to go with an already impressive physical package. Give him a few years, let him work on his jumper/post moves or whatever, and start dreaming. But Spenser already has all of that. And I do mean almost all of it. Jumpers, post moves, can handle, can pass. His skills are already complete. As always can refine or whatnot, but other than adding a three point shot (which I would rather he did NOT) he's already got almost everything you could learn in a gym anyway (and no doubt through endless work in a gym, probably playing against his dad since about age 5 -- just guessing). So the whole potential thing is twisted.

I think #5 and #6 are nice problems to have. Miller and a lot of other centers that have been in league for years don't have the post moves of Hawes. I think Hawes' improvement will come in several areas:

1) Strength. He's a big boned kid. I believe he will get quite strong over the next 3 years. I like the fact that the Kings org is focusing on getting him stronger, but not heavier.

2) Shooting percentage. He has good form. He's a pretty good free throw shooter. He should get even better with time.

3) RECOGNITION. Experience will allow him to recognize when to take what shot and who to take it against. He will also become an even better passer due to his experience, and hopefully being in an offense that won't change from year to year. I think the kid has a pretty high basketball IQ, so I am going to be quite surprised and dissapointed if he doesn't get very good at "recognition" after say 3 years.

What gives me a fair degree of confidence on the above three is: Work Ethic. Everything I've seen, everything I've heard leads me to believe that he is a worker. What is really going to separate him or not from the crowd - what will make him a star - or a "pretty good" player that is below a star - is mental toughness. Can he hit the big shot? With 5 seconds on the clock, the score tied, and he's open for an 18 footer, can he hit it? Can he make the big pass in a pressure situation? What kind of poise does he have under pressure? We'll see....

 

[Gary]

I have ansolutely nothing against Hawes. From what I've seen he's a great offensive weapon and a great post play. Is he a good player? You bet. Does he address the Kings' issues in any way? Nope. We needed someone to defend the paint (since none of our big men can, except Justin Williams), and Hawes has no defensive skills. We needed a shotblocker and a rebounder, and Hawes doesn't provide that either. So what do we have next year? Another year of lay-up drills in our paint? You are very right though, a team manager probably knows better what he's doing, but from a fan standpoint, many of us don't see any positives from this pick. Plus, Theus wants a run 'n gun team, and Hawes probably won't be useful at it either, since he's big and slow. But I'm sure Petrie knows what he's doing. Do you, VF, think he's gonna pull something out of his hat before next season starts?

People keep saying he meets none of our needs. You are right there, but he does not have to meet any immediate needs. We are rebuilding so this has nothing to do with immediate needs what so ever. Now if we were an established team I would be pissed.

 

[dmj]

People keep saying he meets none of our needs. You are right there, but he does not have to meet any immediate needs. We are rebuilding so this has nothing to do with immediate needs what so ever. Now if we were an established team I would be pissed.

I just thought I'd add to this a thought that I believe Geoff expressed in an interview following the draft. There simply wasn't anyone available at #10 who could have fixed our problems with rebounding and low post defense.

At that point in the draft we took the best player available to some extent, but more importantly we took a player who actually does fill a need for us as a backup center who can takeover once Brad is gone.

 

[jtt]

looks good in college but in NBA?

Remember Christain Laetner and Danny Ferry. They had all the fancy moves in college and dominated offensively in the paint. The get bulldozed over and swatted in the NBA and disappeared. Hawes doesn't even compare to CL and DF in college. How do you think he's going to do in NBA. Just remember how dominant Boozer was in the playoffs. Muscle, hops, and will are very important in the NBA. Hawes better pump weights like there is no tomorrow or he'll get embarrased once the real season starts.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Remember Christain Laetner and Danny Ferry. They had all the fancy moves in college and dominated offensively in the paint. The get bulldozed over and swatted in the NBA and disappeared. Hawes doesn't even compare to CL and DF in college. How do you think he's going to do in NBA. Just remember how dominant Boozer was in the playoffs. Muscle, hops, and will are very important in the NBA. Hawes better pump weights like there is no tomorrow or he'll get embarrased once the real season starts.

Hawes only had one year in college. People seem to be conveniently forgetting this.

 

[Bricklayer]

Remember Christain Laetner and Danny Ferry. They had all the fancy moves in college and dominated offensively in the paint. The get bulldozed over and swatted in the NBA and disappeared. Hawes doesn't even compare to CL and DF in college. How do you think he's going to do in NBA. Just remember how dominant Boozer was in the playoffs. Muscle, hops, and will are very important in the NBA. Hawes better pump weights like there is no tomorrow or he'll get embarrased once the real season starts.

I think you may not quite understand just how MANY skills Spenser Hawes has offensively. It really is rather eye opening. There is not a shot, not a move, he does not seem to possess. No hesitation either or shyness about putting them up.

The questions are going to remain can he do enough of the "other thngs" to stay on the floor so he can use those offensive skills.

 

[Kingster]

I think you may not quite understand just how MANY skills Spenser Hawes has offensively. It really is rather eye opening. There is not a shot, not a move, he does not seem to possess. No hesitation either or shyness about putting them up.

The questions are going to remain can he do enough of the "other thngs" to stay on the floor so he can use those offensive skills.

Let's assume that Hawes has the same rebounding/defensive skills of Miller prior to 2 years ago. Miller was "pretty good" then. I find it hard to believe that this kid will be any worse than Miller in those defensive/rebounding areas than Miller two years ago. If the assumption is correct, then I don't see why the kid won't get pt.

The key with this kid is not going to be his ability to do the "other things", but rather the ability of our GM to surround him with very athletic players who can do the "other things." If you surround him with the players we have now, all of his warts will be extremely prominant because we have a pg who can't guard and a pf who can't cover from the weak side, and even Artest*, who is mainly a one-on-one defender rather than a help defender, but who does rebound when he puts his mind to it. I'm not so much concerned with Hawes at center, but I'm very concerned that Petrie will use his skills-first criterion on his selection of future draft picks, FAs, etc. If Petrie does that, it ain't gonna work. Then we'll all be talking about what Hawes doesn't do well as opposed to what he does do well.

*I'm assuming his presence on the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Let's assume that Hawes has the same rebounding/defensive skills of Miller prior to 2 years ago. Miller was "pretty good" then. I find it hard to believe that this kid will be any worse than Miller in those defensive/rebounding areas than Miller two years ago. If the assumption is correct, then I don't see why the kid won't get pt.

The key with this kid is not going to be his ability to do the "other things", but rather the ability of our GM to surround him with very athletic players who can do the "other things." If you surround him with the players we have now, all of his warts will be extremely prominant because we have a pg who can't guard and a pf who can't cover from the weak side, and even Artest*, who is mainly a one-on-one defender rather than a help defender, but who does rebound when he puts his mind to it. I'm not so much concerned with Hawes at center, but I'm very concerned that Petrie will use his skills-first criterion on his selection of future draft picks, FAs, etc. If Petrie does that, it ain't gonna work. Then we'll all be talking about what Hawes doesn't do well as opposed to what he does do well.

*I'm assuming his presence on the team.

Miller two to three years ago would have pushed this kid all over the gym on the glass. Shotblocking..no. Miller was always pathetic there. He is neither long, ahtletic, nor can he get off the floor. But as a rebounder, Miller peaked at over 10, and his per minutes for years before that would have put him up near 10 if teams had seen him as more than a 26-30 minute guy. He was a better reboudner than Hawes has ever been, and may ever be.

And as an aside, Valde was a MUCH better reboudner than Hawes, and a much better shotblocker too. We got old Vlade, and people have let it bleed over into Vlade in his prime -- guy had three seasons over 10rpg, 2 over 2 blk/gm, and in general in his prime was a complete package center. Did it all.

And yes, if Spenser Hawes cannot grab more than 5-6 rebounds a game in the NBA in major minutes, Spenser Hawes will NOT play major minutes. That simple. The only major minute (30+) center that pathetic in memory was Rik Smits, and precisely because of that, he was not truly a major minute guy. They got 25-30 min out of him tops, surrounded him with bashers, fed him while he was in, and then sat him the rest of the way. You of course have Eddie Curry, but again not only was he a well deserved object of ridicule, but he was always held down under 30 min/gm for the same reason.

Hawes is young, it was just summer league. But he did not get it done there against very weak competition, just as he did not get it done in college against even weaker competition. I am going to assume he was a good rebounder in high school just on the basis of being 7 feet tall while everybody else was 6'6".


next test: training camp. But he's got to show up eventually, and not just get excuses made for him, or you are essentially talking about an offensive roleplayer. A specialist you bring in for one purpose ala Bill Cartwright, feed a few times, then bench.

 

[kupman]

He was a better reboudner than Hawes has ever been, and may ever be.

And as an aside, Valde was a MUCH better reboudner than Hawes, and a much better shotblocker too.

These sentences are kind-of funny when you consider that Hawes is a 19 year-old kid who has yet to play a single minute of NBA basketball.

 

[creAtivetfh]

Hawes is the next Hakeem Olajuwon

 

[Bricklayer]

These sentences are kind-of funny when you consider that Hawes is a 19 year-old kid who has yet to play a single minute of NBA basketball.

Yes, you are of course right. We can know nothing about nothing that we don't wish to know about. In fact perhaps I should delete this entire thread as premature as its obvious Spenser has not played a game in the NBA yet and so therefore we can't know he has more post skills than Adonal Foyle either.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hawes is the next Hakeem Olajuwon

here are some possible decorative choices to accompany such a statement:








Leave the specifics up to you.

 

[supamari0]

Hawes is the next Hakeem Olajuwon

tee hee

 

[kupman]

Yes, you are of course right. We can know nothing about nothing that we don't wish to know about. In fact perhaps I should delete this entire thread as premature as its obvious Spenser has not played a game in the NBA yet and so therefore we can't know he has more post skills than Adonal Foyle either.

I am just saying that we should all just be patient with a 19 year-old who is still growing and learning the game......is that so wrong? geesh

 

[Jerichoholic]

Indeed, I think the redeeming qualities for Hawes when it comes to his rebounding and defense are that he is only 19 years old (which is basically like coming out of high school), he only weights 235 which is low for a center, and he hasn't played a minute of NBA ball yet. Give him some time to put on weight, get stronger, and get an understanding of the NBA game and then we'll see.

The only downside that I see is that he just never seemed to be around the ball when it came to rebounds. What I mean by that is look at Justin Williams and even Caner-Medley, when there was a rebound these guys were all over it, even if they didn't get it they were always in the play. This is why they got so many boards and it was very noticable. Then look at Hawes, you see that he got 5 or 6 and you can't even remember a single one. My point is that some guys have a nose for the ball and some don't. Hopefully Hawes' problem is simply experience and lack of coaching, that can definitely be fixed.