Spencer Hawes has more offensive skills......

i like the second play in that clip. really like the fact that he has several moves to go to if he doesn't get the look he wants. :)
 
I feel bad for bashing this guy. He's pretty damn good.

Crow anyone?


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Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.
 
He plays more like Dirk...without the three pointers.


You know, that's not a completely awful comparison given Hawes comfort inside and out and mobility/willingness to handle the ball. But Spenser obviously has a vastly more sophisticated post game.

The thing is, that Dirk is a unique entity -- the absolute elite of his class of player, and basically with nobody you want on your team beneath him. A poor man's Dirk becomes Keith Van Horn.


Hawes has something he can do at an NBA level -- that gives him the anchor you need to stick it out and be a player of value. But its all the other things, that Dirk doesn't do, that Spenser needs to work on. Unless you can be so dominant you are going to score 25 a game, you can't just suck at the rest of it.
 
??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.

He is like a white version of Eddy Curry
 
Some were quick to vilify, now we're eager to annoint. Let's hold off on both ends of the spectrum.

He's shown why he was drafted, and we here know what the team needs. I'm glad to see he was as advertised on the offensive end, but I also realize he's 19 and is going to skyrocket and slump many times during this upcoming year, so I won't worry/excite myself too much. I also wouldn't write him of as Eddy Curry just yet. He (Hawes) seems to have a much stronger work ethic thus far.

Remember, he's a year removed from high school. Think about that one for a moment, people. To that extent, his offense IS impressive.
 
I'm hoping with some good coaching and much needed strength he can be a solid rebounder.

But his offensive moves are very nice!
 
He hasn't done a whole lot out there other than scoring. He's the player we drafted. Big guy, decent mobility, on the skinny side, lots of post moves, good midrange jumpshot. The results so far are encouraging -- I can see him eventually dominating some games offensively -- but I wouldn't get carried away just yet. He hasn't looked totally in control out there, often rushing his shot and missing what should be automatic if he just took his time. His reaction time on defense still looks slow, and his defensive footwork needs a lot of coaching. The competition obviously is not NBA level yet either.

Other big guys have come into the league with little to no defensive skills but a good work ethic and eventually developed an all-around game (Dirk and Gasol come to mind). It's hard to remember now that they didn't look like sure-fire superstars when they first started in the NBA either. So that's a decent best-case scenario. Although Dirk without the 3point shot and Gasol without the athleticism are not superstars. He's not going to become either of those players, but he could be as good defenisively as them if he works on it. If he can improve the rebounding and defensive positioning, he'll be a good player for us.
 
He's...

only 19. Most big men take around 3 years to blossom. He's going to struggle at times but he's also going to put together good games. I'd like to see him rebound a little bit better but I think that is going to come with time as he develops his body. The one thing that I do like right now is that I think he can score down low in the post....right now in the NBA. We know Miller can't score in the post. A big guy who can score in the post (and hit a 12-15 foot jumper) is tough to come by. I think Petrie came up with another good pick.
 
??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.

If he comes in and averages 15 pts & 6 rebs as a 19 year old I'll be very happy with that problem!:D
 
only 19. Most big men take around 3 years to blossom. He's going to struggle at times but he's also going to put together good games. I'd like to see him rebound a little bit better but I think that is going to come with time as he develops his body. The one thing that I do like right now is that I think he can score down low in the post....right now in the NBA. We know Miller can't score in the post. A big guy who can score in the post (and hit a 12-15 foot jumper) is tough to come by. I think Petrie came up with another good pick.

I'd bet that within 3 years when he's the ripe old age of 22 he hits 18-20 foot jumpers on a very consistent basis; after that he becomes good at hitting open 3 pointers. If he can score inside and outside (very unlike Miller) he's going to create lots of problems for opposing teams. We just need to get some mega-athletes around him to offset any weaknesses he may have in the rebounding/defense area.
 
only 19. Most big men take around 3 years to blossom. He's going to struggle at times but he's also going to put together good games. I'd like to see him rebound a little bit better but I think that is going to come with time as he develops his body. The one thing that I do like right now is that I think he can score down low in the post....right now in the NBA. We know Miller can't score in the post. A big guy who can score in the post (and hit a 12-15 foot jumper) is tough to come by. I think Petrie came up with another good pick.

First, welcome to Kingsfans.com!!!

I agree pretty much down the line with your comments. I think we're seeing the beginning of Hawes. The progression could be a lot of fun for Kings fans for years to come.

:)
 
He obviously has problems with rebounding and defense, that was understood on draft night but he has yet to really work with a NBA strength and conditioning program so this isn't really the best time to be judging him on those things.
 
He obviously has problems with rebounding and defense, that was understood on draft night but he has yet to really work with a NBA strength and conditioning program so this isn't really the best time to be judging him on those things.


A number of points here:

1) first of all the above is not really true. NONE of these kids has worked with NBA strength and conditioning programs. Some of them are nonetheless able to board/defend. That Hawes does not, compared to his peers at the same point in their careers, is quite significant. they will get better too at the same time he does.

2) and in addition, as the son of an NBAer, a guy who has obviosuly developed very sophisticated post moves and whatnot through extensive coaching, and has been ont eh edges of the NBA world since birth, I would say its far MORE likely that Hawes has exposed to that sort of program than soem raw kid out of Africa or whatnot. That goes for all that plyometics stuff too. That's hardly cutting edge, and any top athlete knows about it. One who has trqained his whole life for the role is quite likely to already be using it to some degree too.

3) I am actually a bit nonplussed about it to some degree, as Hawes is more mobile than advertised, and has good length. Physically, he should be able to do better. At a certain point it comes down to mentality/knack. Just as some people see the game as scorers, some see it as rebounders/defenders (see Justin for example). Switch the two guys from body to body and I suspect they largely switch roles (although Justin would probably have a hard time staying in the NBA in Hawes' body).

4) Hawes absolutely needs to get stronger. Randolph Morris, who is maybe a year older and a fringe NBAer at best just put his shoulder into him and bulldozed him wherever he wanted to go. But I would be a bit nervous about Spenser bulking up. He is already a shaky athlete. If he threw on 20lbs to bang with, it could tip the scales toward bad. Might make him settle into the post more though.

5) which brings me to a point which may sound unfair, actually two of them:
First, I think Hawes may actually suffer from having TOO many skills on offense. Or too many things he can do to some degree, but not dominantly. Sounds odd, but watching him attack it seems like he has a shot for every occasion form wherever on the floor. That should be a good thing, is a good thing in a lot of ways, but it actually impresses me that maybe its not. He ends up taking the first shot in his repertoire from wherever, rather than working to get to his spot on the floor, a prime spot. Would almost be better if he did not feel comfortable from everywhere so he would be induced to go where he has the biggest advantage. Hence if he gained weight, might almost help him to get dedicated to the post. In any case, looking forward, I could see this being perhaps the area of greatest growth for him. Simply learning how to use it, how to organize his attack. Rather than taking first shot, how to use one set of skills against the big slow guys, another against smaller guys. Again, properly organized and used, versatility like his is a huge plus and something many stars have. Right now, first impression is that its almost too much.

6) Second point though, and a little counter to that last, is I wonder about Hawes' upside compared to almost any other kid his age. Here's why: he has all the skills already. Normally when you talk about upside for a kid its in anticipation that he will develop skills to go with an already impressive physical package. Give him a few years, let him work on his jumper/post moves or whatever, and start dreaming. But Spenser already has all of that. And I do mean almost all of it. Jumpers, post moves, can handle, can pass. His skills are already complete. As always can refine or whatnot, but other than adding a three point shot (which I would rather he did NOT) he's already got almost everything you could learn in a gym anyway (and no doubt through endless work in a gym, probably playing against his dad since about age 5 -- just guessing). So the whole potential thing is twisted.
 
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maybe he turns out to be like Karl Malone baby!!! i hope. ahha. Malone's Jumper killed us so often. I hated that shot so much. It was so ugly, and went in all the time.
 
maybe he turns out to be like Karl Malone baby!!! i hope. ahha. Malone's Jumper killed us so often. I hated that shot so much. It was so ugly, and went in all the time.
If he added like 30 pounds of muscle, maybe, but I dont see Hawes being compared to the Mailman in our lifetime.
 
Most of these kids aren't 19 years old with only one years of college experience, most of them are older and have developed bodies. Hawes IMO still has a lot of room to grow physically and he was sick most of his season so his body is not in top condition. I'm just saying he hasn't really had much of a chance to improve his strength and conditioning and now is probably not the best time to evaluate the parts of his game that are helped by size and strength, that's all really. I'm not saying that he's ever going to be a dominant rebounder or defender, the athleticism is not there for that neither is a killer instinct on the boards but it's not unreasonable to believe that he can become an 8-9 rpg and take that along with his 15-18 ppg scoring potential and you have one of the better centers in the league. I don't think this is unrealistic expectations to put on him and I think it would be great value for the 10th pick.

As far as his potential to improve offensively, you're right he doesn't have a whole lot left to develop in terms of raw skills but there is more to being a finished product than just skills. Right now his skills are allowing him to get it done offensively but when he's in the NBA he's going to get pushed more off the block and he's going to rush and take bad shots if not deter to his teammates. While he was connecting, he was rushing a lot of his shots and he wasn't really getting that deep of position but more relying on his range/touch. The things he can improve are going to come with experience (learning the NBA game and his competition), maturing physically, and becoming more aggressive in the post instead of settling for shots around 15 ft. I think he has a lot of scoring potential offensively, outside of having the athleticism to explode to the basket over defenders he's got everything else. Great touch with both hands, excellent footwork, very good court vision, range out to 20 ft, and good ball handling ability.

He's a smart player and very hard working, I think he'll max out on his potential, which may not be a perenial all-star but one of the better centers in the league.
 
The thing is, that Dirk is a unique entity -- the absolute elite of his class of player, and basically with nobody you want on your team beneath him. A poor man's Dirk becomes Keith Van Horn.


Hawes has something he can do at an NBA level -- that gives him the anchor you need to stick it out and be a player of value. But its all the other things, that Dirk doesn't do, that Spenser needs to work on. Unless you can be so dominant you are going to score 25 a game, you can't just suck at the rest of it.
We're probably looking more at a Mehmet Okur type of player than a Keith van Horn (or Dirk), just with more talent and touch than Okur, but with a bit less range. I don't anticipate Hawes being a consistent double-double threat at any point in his career. He'll probably be just what he was at Washington, an offensive-minded player with defensive deficiencies his entire career. If he's lucky, he's as successful as Vlade was offensively, but he won't ever win a rebounding title or be the defensive player of the year.
 
If he....

becomes a version of Vlade, I'd take that. Thats probably a good comp between the 2. Hawes is supposed to have passing skills and that has always fit in with the type of player Petrie goes after. He's not a guy thats going to carry the team but I do believe that he will be a player you can't ignore on offense. Defensively, I think he's going to need to have strong defenders with him in the lineup......PG being a good start. There was another post that said that we would need good, quick athletes along side him. I whole-heartedly agree with that.
 
??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.

??

I was bashing the pick more than anything else, because he looked like a younger version of Miller. Turns out, he works well with his back to the basket... basically Miller with a post game and a little more quickness. Not bad.

I never bashed his offensive skills. His athleticism, defense and rebounding... that's another story. Anyone that assumed I was criticizing his offense is "just being ignorant."
 
??

I was bashing the pick more than anything else, because he looked like a younger version of Miller. Turns out, he works well with his back to the basket... basically Miller with a post game and a little more quickness. Not bad.

I never bashed his offensive skills. His athleticism, defense and rebounding... that's another story. Anyone that assumed I was criticizing his offense is "just being ignorant."

Look, you may not have been aware of it, but the occasional "Miller" comparison tossed around by media boobs aside, Hawes' ENTIRE rep as a player coming up was his post game. That was what all the clips were going to be. What was going to be talked about. Young guy with a post game. Was even compared to McHale coming out of high school (I do so tire of skin color based comparisons after awhile). That's what made him of interest. Young non-rebounding/defending guy with a jumper = 2nd round pick or undrafted like Miller. Its actually more of a surprise -- and haven't figured out whether its a good one or a nasty one -- how comfrotable he is shooting jumpers. You would have thought (and perhaps hoped) that his game was almost ALL in the post based on his hype. In any case, his post skills are clearly elite, and that was never a quesion really. Whether its enough is.

"Ignorant" is not always a synonym for stupid. Sometimes it means just what it means, i.e. that somebody just does not know something.
 
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