Spears - "DeMarcus Cousins, Rajon Rondo have 'powerful' recent meeting with Kings coach George Karl"

[kingjatt]

I dont know if George mellowing out and listening to Cuz and Rondo is a product of old age and wisdom or Vlade telling him that Cuz is not going anywhere and he better do what it takes to make it work. Its nice to have a PG with the IQ that Rondo has who can basically control the game. Now if he can just be allowed to make substitutions we could get somewhere.

 

[Liontech]

Why do I sense that Karl needed a conversion as much as anyone else? I am not sure what drove Karl back into coaching but I suspect that it wasn't altruistic. I definitely until *very* recently have not felt that he was emotionally connected with the success of the franchise. In the best case, this is changing before our eyes, and Karl, Cousins, and Rondo, are all beginning to buy into something bigger than the next step in their own careers. Based on this article, there is definitely reason to be optimistic.

And I think see Vlade's magic at work in this as well. There were multiple points over the past six months where a less stable personality would have caved to Vivek's impulsive tendencies, and this whole experiment would have fizzled. The conversation at the center of Spears' article never takes place without this stabilizing force.

 

[alonshin]

The main thing Rondo and Cousins told Karl was that his film sessions would be better with more constructive criticism and teaching. Rondo and Cousins said they also told Karl not to hesitate to use them as examples in film sessions.

“I told him to start with me. Whatever I can do to help the team,” Rondo told Yahoo Sports. “If you have to bully me or call me out, I can accept that. I’m a 10-year vet. I learned from [former Boston Celtics coach] Doc [Rivers] and the past guys that it has to start with the vets who have the most leeway on the team or the most responsibility.

“[Cousins and I] are both trying to change the culture, change the organization.”

Cousins told Yahoo Sports: “We’re just trying to correct every mistake we have. We want to be a winning team, and I feel it starts with myself on down to Rondo as well.”

Karl said Rondo and Cousins also asked that he be more selective about pushing the pace offensively. Karl said he would agree to slow the offense down under one condition.

“I said, ‘OK, I will slow it down if you do what I want.’ That’s not fighting each other. That’s mutually coming together,” Karl told Yahoo Sports. “If we have to compromise something, we will compromise something.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/demarcus-cousins--rajon-rondo-have-positive--“powerful”-meeting-with-kings-coach-george-karl-223318996.html



Some really really good stuff in this article. Thought it deserved its own thread.

Good article and good news! Thanks for sharing it

 

[Sac.1989]

there is hope. For a minute i was thinking that only us as a passionate fanbase knew what was ailing us and it was blind to the rest of the world.

the players/management meeting was the first step and this is the next.

Demarcus and Rondo have hit the nail on the head and called out exactly what we need to do as a franchise to achieve greatness, its beautiful to see Rondo and Demarcus's relationship grow. I have no doubt Rondo will be here next season if we can move on positively from this.

In all honestly we should be looking beyond that 8th seed and there is no dam reason we cant land it. If Demarcus stays healthy, Karl slows it down and we buy in, the wins will come.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[Blob]

Its a very good sign, but perhaps worth noting this happened just before the Milwaulkee game -- after our Charlotte meltdown. We won vs. the Bucks. Then came back and stunk it up vs. the Wolves. Then tried early, but got badly outclassed vs. the Warriors. Then started slow, but ground down the Mavs. So maybe a better long term sign, but short term it was kind of another team meeting thing when we hit another rough patch, and led to us stabilizing but hardly curb-stomping the league.

Now practical effects? Maybe.

Pace first 15 games: 100.1 (2nd)
Pace last 4 games: 94.6 (24th)

I think it is easy to misinterpret pace. I am not saying you are misinterpreting pace, just that it is easy.

Do you know what effects your pace? Its obviously not just how deep you go into the shot clock before shooting. Pace is a function of (1) your transition defense, i.e. making the opponent run half court offense to decrease pace (2) the preferred pace at which the opponent likes to play dictated by their personnel and (3) your defensive rebounding. If you don't rebound you can't run, which decreases pace.

So pace is influenced by opponent style, defensive rebounding, transition defense, not just how quickly you want to get into your offense.

Regarding the last four games and these various factors:

(1) The Wolves got zero fast break points against us (decrease in pace)
(2) The Mavs are an old and slow and deliberate team (decrease in pace)
(3) The Kings ran the Bucks out of the gym but the Bucks (who have the slowest pace in the NBA) tried to slow the pace to compete (decrease in pace)
(4) The Warriors play at pace but that game was over after 2 quarters so I don't know what to make of that. When games turn into extended garbage time I tend to discount them statistically.

So it would be inaccurate IMHO to conclude there was some sort of dramatic shift in the Kings intention to play with pace over the last 4 games.

I have seen changes and speculated when Cousins had his post-game locker room blow-up it was related to his dissatisfaction with pace. I'll save these observations for another time but basically Karl has been amenable to adjustment which bodes well for cohesiveness prospectively.

 

[macadocious]

My only issue with that article is that it says that Cuz didn't respect any veteran before Rondo. Um, Rudy Gay is still on this team, Cassipi is still on this team, Collison, etc. I hope that was just a mischaracterization of wording, because if that is true, like really true, that could potentially cause some locker room issues. Especially if those guys read it and see it that way.

 

[Larry89]

Looking forward to seeing Demarcus not get injured so often then!

 

[gunks]

My only issue with that article is that it says that Cuz didn't respect any veteran before Rondo. Um, Rudy Gay is still on this team, Cassipi is still on this team, Collison, etc. I hope that was just a mischaracterization of wording, because if that is true, like really true, that could potentially cause some locker room issues. Especially if those guys read it and see it that way.

Eh. There is respect, and there is respect. Of the three guys you listed, I suppose Gay is the one who could take the most offense at this. But on the court, he's always been second fiddle to Cuz. DC....More of a third fiddle (on his good days, which we haven't seen a lot of lately). Casspi and Cuz are tight, so I doubt there will be issues there.

Rondo is the most alpha-dog, take over a game, type of guy we've had playing next to Cousins in his career. He's also a BB genius and has a ring.

I think the locker room will be fine!

 

[Gliesian]

I think it is easy to misinterpret pace. I am not saying you are misinterpreting pace, just that it is easy.

Do you know what effects your pace? Its obviously not just how deep you go into the shot clock before shooting. Pace is a function of (1) your transition defense, i.e. making the opponent run half court offense to decrease pace (2) the preferred pace at which the opponent likes to play dictated by their personnel and (3) your defensive rebounding. If you don't rebound you can't run, which decreases pace.

So pace is influenced by opponent style, defensive rebounding, transition defense, not just how quickly you want to get into your offense.

Regarding the last four games and these various factors:

(1) The Wolves got zero fast break points against us (decrease in pace)
(2) The Mavs are an old and slow and deliberate team (decrease in pace)
(3) The Kings ran the Bucks out of the gym but the Bucks (who have the slowest pace in the NBA) tried to slow the pace to compete (decrease in pace)
(4) The Warriors play at pace but that game was over after 2 quarters so I don't know what to make of that. When games turn into extended garbage time I tend to discount them statistically.

So it would be inaccurate IMHO to conclude there was some sort of dramatic shift in the Kings intention to play with pace over the last 4 games.

I have seen changes and speculated when Cousins had his post-game locker room blow-up it was related to his dissatisfaction with pace. I'll save these observations for another time but basically Karl has been amenable to adjustment which bodes well for cohesiveness prospectively.

I guess I'm still confused as to why a faster pace wins games. I get it, however, if youre a young team or play at high elevation. But let's assume that teams try to get back on D and go for rebounds to the best of their abilities, bc they prob do. That just leaves getting into your offense quickly, sprinting, passing a lot etc. I can see the chance for a another shot attempt if the ball misses the rim, it fits a dribble drive, but I also see a lot more turnovers... I see more injuries... am I missing something?

 

[funkykingston]

I guess I'm still confused as to why a faster pace wins games. I get it, however, if youre a young team or play at high elevation. But let's assume that teams try to get back on D and go for rebounds to the best of their abilities, bc they prob do. That just leaves getting into your offense quickly, sprinting, passing a lot etc. I can see the chance for a another shot attempt if the ball misses the rim, it fits a dribble drive, but I also see a lot more turnovers... I see more injuries... am I missing something?

Last year the two teams in the Finals ranked #1 and #25 in Pace. Of the teams in the top 10 for pace last season five made the playoffs and five didn't. The Kings and the Sixers are in that group (#7 & #8 respectively). Here's where all of last year's playoff teams ranked in terms of pace:

1 Golden State #1
2 Houston #2
3 Los Angeles #10
4 Portland #12
5 Memphis #26
6 San Antonio # 16
7 Dallas #9
8 New Orleans #27

1 Atlanta #15
2 Cleveland #25
3 Chicago #21
4 Toronto #22
5 Washington #18
6 Milwaukee #13
7 Boston #5
8 Brooklyn #24

The only number that really surprised me is Washington being 18th. With Wall & Beal I figured they'd be higher and this year they are currently 3rd. Milwaukee also seemed a bit high but then I realized that their pace really slowed down after the trade deadline when they swapped Brandon Knight for Michael Carter-Williams.

Otherwise those pace numbers all look right to me. Successful teams play at the correct pace based on their personnel - and in the case of Denver, their geographical advantage. The Jazz are doing pretty well this year by playing slow, mostly because of their defense. Cleveland is in about the same spot at #26. Phoenix's style fits a fast pace and they are currently tops in the league. The Warriors are still playing fast but are currently 4th in pace this year instead of first.

This year the Kings are currently #2 in pace. And they are 7-12

Last year after 19 games they were 10-9.

Even if you account for Cousins being out of the lineup, this year the team is 6-5 with Cousins and last year they were 9-6 with Cousins after the Kings first 19 games.

With what we'd all consider a much improved roster (especially the bench) and a hall of fame coach with a full offseason/training camp to install his schemes I think we all expected this team to be better. And yeah, this year's early schedule has been brutal but last years was just as hard.

To me the biggest issue is having a team that is suited for the halfcourt trying to constantly play uptempo basketball. I'd also suspect that the pace has something to do with Cousins' injuries.

A faster pace doesn't win games. A slower pace doesn't win games. Playing at the pace that maximizes your team's talent wins games. Hopefully Rondo and Boogie's meeting with Karl translates into some adjustments in that regard because I think this team is playing way too fast right now.

 

[bajaden]

I dont know if George mellowing out and listening to Cuz and Rondo is a product of old age and wisdom or Vlade telling him that Cuz is not going anywhere and he better do what it takes to make it work. Its nice to have a PG with the IQ that Rondo has who can basically control the game. Now if he can just be allowed to make substitutions we could get somewhere.

Look, I don't think this thing is as complicated as some are trying to make it. After all the turmoil during the summer, and Karl trying to smoke the peace pipe with Cousins, the gauntlet had been passed to Cousins. He was either going to buy in, or he wasn't. He was either going to forgive Karl, or he wasn't. I think Rondo is the catalyst here. Both he and Cousins had some issues they wanted to resolve, and Rondo, who has a lot more experience in these matters, along with Cousins wanting to win more than he wanted to stay mad at Karl, decided to do a sit down with Karl. And it was a good idea.

One thing I can assure you of, Karl didn't suddenly become senile, or throw up his hands in surrender. Speaking as someone whose been down that same road, you become more set in your ways as you get older. Basically, you start throwing out all the idealistic BS and you hang on to what has worked in your life. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not. That doesn't mean you won't compromise for the overall good of the team, as long as the other party is willing to compromise as well. In this case that appears to have happened. Other than the pace of the game, I have no idea what they talked about, nor do I care, as long as it brings results. Rondo is looking like a huge steal right now.

 

[Entity]

Any idea when this meeting took place? Pre or post Dallas?

 

[Gliesian]

Last year the two teams in the Finals ranked #1 and #25 in Pace. Of the teams in the top 10 for pace last season five made the playoffs and five didn't. The Kings and the Sixers are in that group (#7 & #8 respectively). Here's where all of last year's playoff teams ranked in terms of pace:

1 Golden State #1
2 Houston #2
3 Los Angeles #10
4 Portland #12
5 Memphis #26
6 San Antonio # 16
7 Dallas #9
8 New Orleans #27

1 Atlanta #15
2 Cleveland #25
3 Chicago #21
4 Toronto #22
5 Washington #18
6 Milwaukee #13
7 Boston #5
8 Brooklyn #24

The only number that really surprised me is Washington being 18th. With Wall & Beal I figured they'd be higher and this year they are currently 3rd. Milwaukee also seemed a bit high but then I realized that their pace really slowed down after the trade deadline when they swapped Brandon Knight for Michael Carter-Williams.

Otherwise those pace numbers all look right to me. Successful teams play at the correct pace based on their personnel - and in the case of Denver, their geographical advantage. The Jazz are doing pretty well this year by playing slow, mostly because of their defense. Cleveland is in about the same spot at #26. Phoenix's style fits a fast pace and they are currently tops in the league. The Warriors are still playing fast but are currently 4th in pace this year instead of first.

This year the Kings are currently #2 in pace. And they are 7-12

Last year after 19 games they were 10-9.

Even if you account for Cousins being out of the lineup, this year the team is 6-5 with Cousins and last year they were 9-6 with Cousins after the Kings first 19 games.

With what we'd all consider a much improved roster (especially the bench) and a hall of fame coach with a full offseason/training camp to install his schemes I think we all expected this team to be better. And yeah, this year's early schedule has been brutal but last years was just as hard.

To me the biggest issue is having a team that is suited for the halfcourt trying to constantly play uptempo basketball. I'd also suspect that the pace has something to do with Cousins' injuries.

A faster pace doesn't win games. A slower pace doesn't win games. Playing at the pace that maximizes your team's talent wins games. Hopefully Rondo and Boogie's meeting with Karl translates into some adjustments in that regard because I think this team is playing way too fast right now.

Sigh, I guess hes just a stubborn old man then. At least its a tool in the box!

 

[Bricklayer]

Any idea when this meeting took place? Pre or post Dallas?

pre Milwaulkee actually.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

Eh. There is respect, and there is respect. Of the three guys you listed, I suppose Gay is the one who could take the most offense at this. But on the court, he's always been second fiddle to Cuz. DC....More of a third fiddle (on his good days, which we haven't seen a lot of lately). Casspi and Cuz are tight, so I doubt there will be issues there.

Rondo is the most alpha-dog, take over a game, type of guy we've had playing next to Cousins in his career. He's also a BB genius and has a ring.

I think the locker room will be fine!

I don't think anybody will make an issue of that. Rondo is simply the first really talented playmaker to play with DMC and he is enjoying it. Clearly the most critical player for his game.

 

[VF21]

If this is what he wanted he should have just asked. Because the only reason they went to him was because of how bad he's coached so far. Unless you're implying that Karl sabotaged the team and make the situation so bad that he knew they'd come knocking. Either way this is dumb and just another reason why Karl should be fired.

You totally missed my point. But that's cool...