Someone sell me on Thomas Robinson

this is very true, only problem is for that to happen we would need a coach that actually runs any type of offense at all. there are more Pick N Rolls performed at pick up games during lunch break at a middle school

And there's the rub. Get a middle school coach in here and have them run pick and roll every play and we're already a better team. It worked for Mike Bibby's Kings. With the right players it's still the hardest play to guard in basketball.

I don't know what makes you think that. Rebounding almost always translates to the NBA. Good college rebounders turn into good pro rebounders, and poor college rebounders turn into poor pro rebounders. To my understanding it is the single most translatable stat.

Yes and no. In general I would agree with you -- if you have a wing player who averages a lot of rebounds in college they will probably also average a lot of rebounds in the NBA, provided they get enough playing time. But there's a critical point at which the height factor starts to skew the stats. Most college teams have one player who is tall enough to play PF in the NBA. The elite teams will have two or maybe three. That means that you don't necessarily need good technique to rack up rebounds in the college game if you're at or near that 6'9" cut off point. Size isn't necessarily a good indicator of rebounding prowess. But you do need to have technique -- reading the angles, getting in good position, boxing out, pursuing loose balls relentlessly. If you're a player who relies on size rather than technique in college, than you might have a problem transitioning to the NBA game where size will be negated. Michael Beasley and David West are recent examples. Elite rebounders in college, nothing special in the NBA.

But I don't really think those criticisms apply to Thomas Robinson. He played next to a 7 footer and he played against top level competition and he led the entire NCAA in defensive rebounds by a wide margin. I think he just needs time. He'll learn to slow down and play to his strengths.
 
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I think he's actually one of the few guys who has found a role.

In the summer league/preseason/first few games he was falling victim to lack of roles, and lack of non-roleplayer skills. Once he settled back into a role he's been solid enough. In the preseason he shot 16-42 .381 trying to do too much. Trying to create on his own. Over the last 6 games as he has settled back to run' n jump roleplayer taking catches and trying to finish them around the rim, he's shot 16-29 .552. We're not getting consistent rebounding or defense from him yet, but offensively he has quit hurting us and is sticking to the things his athleticism allows him to do. i..e he's doing a pretty good imiation of a roleplayer.

Really I think that's why our frontcourt is a lot closer to being solid than our little guys. Up front we have one Cousisn, and now 3 guys who are playing their roles pretty well in JT, Hayes and TRob. Put that together and its solid. We need to swap one of those guys for a shotblocker, but at least it makes sense basketballwise. The problem is at the little people spots where Petrie has accumualted, and Smart has coached at least 7 different guys who fight the roleplayer designation, and only 2 largely scrubs at this point who fit it (Cisco and Outlaw).

Whether someone likes or dislikes T. Robb, he's hardly the reason the team is struggling, and I agree with you, he along with JT and Hayes has settled into a role. One of his problems at Kansas is that for his first two years he played behind the Morris twins. I think that lack of playing time hurt his development to some extent. As a result, his post game was comprised of using his athleticism to out quick other players. That can work to some degree in the NBA if your 6'10" and weight 250, but not if your 6'8.75" and weigh 235. Because your trying to out quick the 6'10" 250 player that, in some cases, is just as quick as your are,

He does have some attributes that in the future should help him. He's a very good ballhandler for a player his size. He also has a good feel for the passing game. Unfortunately, right now both those attributes are at times his worse enemy. But once he learns how to use them properly, along with his outstanding athleticism, he could end up being a very good player. I've said from the beginning that I saw a lot of SF in him, and I still think that it could be his destination. He has decent form on his jumpshot, and good range as well. If he can become a good jumpshooter, I can see him being one of the better two way SF's in the league,.

Lest anyone forget, Kahwai Leonard played PF at San Diego St. James Johnson played PF in college as well. So its not that big a reach to project T. Robb to that position. If so, he would go from being an average sized/undersized PF, to being one of the bigger SF's in the league. However, none of this is going to happen overnight. The way it looks right now, were going to add yet more youth in the lottery next offseason. What this team needs is some veteran help. Not just the John Salmons kind of veteran help, but the Chris Webber kind of veteran help.

How much better do you think this team would be if you suddenly added Tim Duncan to the mix. No, I'm not suggesting we trade for Tim Duncan. I'm sure he'll retire with the Spurs. But we need someone like that, who even the Cousins and the Evans of the world will look up to and listen to.
 
I don't know what makes you think that. Rebounding almost always translates to the NBA. Good college rebounders turn into good pro rebounders, and poor college rebounders turn into poor pro rebounders. To my understanding it is the single most translatable stat.

And this is what I'm most disappointed with Robinson about - he doesn't box out. For such a good rebounder it's just weird to see him never box out his man. That and for a guy with his athleticism he rarely ever contests shots at the rim.
 
I guess he could become a Paul Milsap type player if he ever reaches his potential... His offense would have too get WAYYYYYY better to reach that ceiling tho.... I would of prefered us drafting drummond.. but whatever.. im "meh" on the whole robinson thing. Im not impressed by the pick and im not too dissapointed.
 
But as you know, Kawhi Leonard has nothing to do with the Robinson pick.

In the K Leonard draft I wanted Kemba Walker, and very close behind him I wanted Brandon Knight; didn't see Leonard in college. Just like most on this board, I was very dissapointed in the Jimmer/Salmons draft and trade.
I

[facepalm] Note to self. Never try to help others understand posts by Section 101 ever again. [/facepalm]
 
Anyone we drafted will get screwed. If MJ was on this team, he be screwed as well. No $$$ for a good coach = no development for any player.
 
He's not getting much of a chance in Smart's rotation. Neither is Jimmer. T-Rob will be a stud, he just needs PT to develop in the NBA.
 
Lets see, most NBA ready player in the draft and then comes in and looks completely lost. I'd say it's the coach, although I feel bad for hating on Smart. Plus he's on a team with a bunch of shot happy guards. Not like he can really get too many opportunities on pick and rolls/pops where he would do well and we don't run much so he's screwed there also. He is a good player. I think we need a better coach.
 
Lets see, most NBA ready player in the draft and then comes in and looks completely lost. I'd say it's the coach, although I feel bad for hating on Smart. Plus he's on a team with a bunch of shot happy guards. Not like he can really get too many opportunities on pick and rolls/pops where he would do well and we don't run much so he's screwed there also. He is a good player. I think we need a better coach.

He looked lost in summer league too. That has nothing to do with the coach.
 
he went away from his natural game in Summer League, he was trying to play small forward/Point forward most of the time, dribbling up the floor and shooting deep 2's.

when he finally decided to do what he can do in the final game he looked better.
 
Remember, it was the Kings coaching staff that wanted to experiment with Robinson at the 3. And in the summer league, I don't have a problem with that. They wanted to stretch him as far as they thought possible and see what would happen. Well, they obviously saw he's not ready for the 3. But now they have to put him in positions to succeed at the 4, and so far I have seen little of that.
 
Hindsight is always easy but man Harrison Barnes woulda fit in and contributed right away, hed be a massive 2 guard or a good size SF. He can post, athletic, smart, defend. moves without the ball well and can create his own shot as well as provide floor spacing. Having him and Tyreke out there would have been something imo.

As far as Robinson I watched a lot of him in college where his mid range was MONEY, everytime I watch him in the NBA but its like hes so tense and nervous thats why he gets called for so many travels and most likely why he lashed out at the Pistons player. He really has to be a PF and hopefully once he calms down can become something like a Paul Milsap type player a undersized athlete with a solid mid range game. At the moment tho hes not relaxed and mentally hes struggling for mine, hes got the physical gifts to succeed but yeah calm down out there young fella.
 
Hindsight is always easy but man Harrison Barnes woulda fit in and contributed right away, hed be a massive 2 guard or a good size SF.

I'm not sure that's even "hindsight". There were quite a few here (including myself) who thought that Barnes was a very good fit and hoped that we would have an opportunity to draft him. Waiters was a huge joker in the draft deck - giving us the opportunity to choose between Robinson and Barnes (with Lillard and Drummond presumably also in the mix). It will be years before we can confidently say whether we made the right choice, but it's not like Barnes wasn't high on our board.
 
Jury is still out but I really liked Barnes as a prospect. I always thought reek and him would have fit hand and glove. robinson still has time to shine plus he is Rebs like a monster.
 
plus he is Rebs like a monster.

we've yet to see how that's going to go. Rebounding often translates, but maybe not as much so when you maybe depended on being bigger and more atheltic, and enter a league where you're not. Its early yet, but he's ranked 122nd in the league in rebs/per 40 right now. Wedged in between Andrei Kirilenko and Charlie Villanueva and worst amongst our 4 bigs (Cousins is #29, Hayes is #90 and JT #108). In fact he's only 21st amongst rookies on that list right now. You have to imagine that's going to change, but how much its hard to say right now.
 
JT looked like a scrub for sometime to before he found his niche. Same can go for Robinson he still has the potential to become really good even if it is off the bench.
 
JT looked like a scrub for sometime to before he found his niche. Same can go for Robinson he still has the potential to become really good even if it is off the bench.

JT was a late lottery pick. Thomas Robinson was a high lottery pick who was supposed to have an immediate impact. We passed other players that could have been excellent here (Lilliard, Barnes, etc). Its not fair to give him those expectations but thats what happens when you are drafted that high. You don't draft players that high to be low impact role players.
 
we've yet to see how that's going to go. Rebounding often translates, but maybe not as much so when you maybe depended on being bigger and more atheltic, and enter a league where you're not. Its early yet, but he's ranked 122nd in the league in rebs/per 40 right now. Wedged in between Andrei Kirilenko and Charlie Villanueva and worst amongst our 4 bigs (Cousins is #29, Hayes is #90 and JT #108). In fact he's only 21st amongst rookies on that list right now. You have to imagine that's going to change, but how much its hard to say right now.

From what I've seen, TRob doesn't box out. You're not going to be a good rebounder in the NBA if you don't box out, regardless of how athletic you are.
 
From what I've seen, TRob doesn't box out. You're not going to be a good rebounder in the NBA if you don't box out, regardless of how athletic you are.

In particular when you are undersized and most the PF's/C's can simple reach over you, hes going to be a good offensive rebounder due to his quick movements and jump but on the defensive boards hes gonna struggle imo
 
He's too active on defense and is out of position too often. Needs to take a lot of lessons from JT on how to slow down.
He literally took the ball from his opponent's hands a couple of times so upper body strength is not an issue. On the other hand, lower body is not that strong and is somewhat a concern as he's moved pretty easily.
 
Do you guys think TRob has a higher ceiling than Faried? He's playing at a very high level now, and Denver's system fits him perfectly.
 
Do you guys think TRob has a higher ceiling than Faried? He's playing at a very high level now, and Denver's system fits him perfectly.

Yeah because he already has a better jumper and will get better and hes bigger, althought I don't know if he can be as relentless as Faried but he def will have better skills eventually.
 
JT looked like a scrub for sometime to before he found his niche. Same can go for Robinson he still has the potential to become really good even if it is off the bench.

Just so. Robinson had the potential to be an eventual starter when we drafted him and he still does.
 
Do you guys think TRob has a higher ceiling than Faried? He's playing at a very high level now, and Denver's system fits him perfectly.

Actually, when I was talking to a friend about Robinson, I compared him to Faried. Rebounding for the most part, technique aside, is about effort. Faried is an excellent rebounder, and he's smaller than Robinson. As Bricky said, rebounding is usually the one skill that almost always translates to the NBA from college. You may not be quite as good as you were in college, but you should still be good. I don't think it has anything to do with coming off the bench either. His first two years in college he came off the bench behind the Morris twins, and in his second year, he lead the NCAA in rebounds per 40.

I think he's still adjusting to the NBA. Way too early to jump to any conclusions.
 
Actually, when I was talking to a friend about Robinson, I compared him to Faried. Rebounding for the most part, technique aside, is about effort. Faried is an excellent rebounder, and he's smaller than Robinson. As Bricky said, rebounding is usually the one skill that almost always translates to the NBA from college. You may not be quite as good as you were in college, but you should still be good. I don't think it has anything to do with coming off the bench either. His first two years in college he came off the bench behind the Morris twins, and in his second year, he lead the NCAA in rebounds per 40.

I think he's still adjusting to the NBA. Way too early to jump to any conclusions.

With this notation: most of the time when rebounding doesn't translate, its precisely size/strength that gets you. Anthony Bonner is one of the Top 10 rebounders in NCAA history. So was Malik Rose. Paul Milsap led the NCAA one year. I think Brad Sellers did too. Point just being, rebounding translates to a much greater degree than scoring for instance, but like anything, the step up in weight class can leave guys punchless. Right now I am of two minds. My biggest concern is that TRob may have already maxed out his body. He's ripped. But he's also a short 6'9" and possibly on the wrong side of 240. He gets bounced around in there a lot, and when he does snatch a rebound, you can tell how much effort he is expending to get it. Like Jimmer's footspeed problems, these may be physical issues that aren't going to go away. There's a reason for the old maxim that you can't teach size.
 
I like Robinson, but the thought that we could of had our future SF locked up in Barnes is still kinda irking to me.
 
I wouldn't be too hard on Robinson or anyone else on this team. There are way to many other problems on this team. No player is looking his best by a long shot.
 
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