Section 101
All-Star
Only if he meets starter criteria. He needs to start 40 games or play 2000 minutes. If not then it's $7.2 mil.
Some Bagley love..
- Thread starter Singhisking
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SLAB
Hall of Famer
Jkbiker
Starter
Then the Kings need to make sure he does not start 40 Games and does not play 2000 minutes.
Make the $7.2 mil qual offer, and either sign and trade for an asset
or Match any offer up to 10mil or He takes the 1 year qual offer
letting him get the 14mil qual offer would not be good for the Kings
Either he gets FA, gets a bigger contract offer we dont match, or we pey him too much for 1 year
Livinthedream
All-Star
If it's a business move trying to ensure a player doesn't make an extra $7 mil. by sitting him or other means, then the team is creating the toxic culture.
EIM86
Starter
yeah Idk about creating bad PR like that for a small market team that nobody wants to come to already. I’ve given up on Bagley already but him being healthy is better for us then not
Jkbiker
Starter
if the player is not worth 14 mil, then its just a business move that sets the proper value of the player, not creating a toxic culture
Jason Anderson @JandersonSacBee
Kings forward Marvin Bagley III is headed for free agency after failing to sign a rookie extension before Monday's deadline. Here's why his qualifying offer could drop from $14.8 million to $7.2 million – and why the Kings control the price tag. sacbee.com/sports/nba/sac…
Kings forward Marvin Bagley III is headed for free agency after failing to sign a rookie extension before Monday's deadline. Here's why his qualifying offer could drop from $14.8 million to $7.2 million – and why the Kings control the price tag. sacbee.com/sports/nba/sac…
DesertFox
Starter
You can make an argument that Bagley isn't one of the team's top 10 players. Starting your injury-prone worst defender because of his draft status can create a toxic culture.
Welp. Guess who's not starting opening night?
Livinthedream
All-Star
JJJ gets an extension and he puts up similar numbers and has just as much if not more injury concerns as Marvin. Kings bury Marvin in order to deny him a full qualifying offer. Which team you think a free agent or a draftee would rather play for?
It would be a bad business move.
Padrino
All-Star
It could be a bad business move. But it's also probably the only move left for the Kings. I have no idea how aggressively McNair has tried to shop Bagley, but it's clear that Bagley's been dangled in possible trades. Unable to move him, the team is now stuck with a player on the last year of his rookie deal without a clear idea of what he's going to bring to the team in the long-term.
Offering Bagley an extension along the lines of what JJJ received would be financially imprudent, at best. In three years with Marvin, it's been nothing but flashes. He possesses not a single skill that the Kings can hang their hat on and say confidently, "We need this on our team in order to succeed in our quest for eventual playoff success." That's simply not worth a $14 million gamble.
Positioning Bagley to receive a significantly lower qualifying offer may not look great to free agents or draftees, but unless the franchise is prepared to let Bags walk for nothing next offseason, then it's the smartest play from an asset management standpoint. He would certainly have value in future trades at the cost of $7 million, and if he manages to stay healthy and put it all together on the court, he'll position himself for a bigger payday the following year. It's gotta be on Bagley at that point. He can't be a "wait-and-see" player forever.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Then you let him walk.
Padrino
All-Star
Why?! That's terrible asset management. The Kings have spent enough seasons bleeding talent because they failed to plan accordingly for impending restricted free agency. Bagley would be solid value at $7 million as an off-the-bench big who can get you points on the break.
Livinthedream
All-Star
It is my opinion that Bagley as an asset has been managed poorly from the start. So cut bait and move on. Use the 7 mil on a different big who actually brings one usable skill to the team.
Purposefully keeping his value low and then signing a QO is not going to create a mutually beneficial relationship. Especially if the team believes Marvin brings nothing to the table.
Section 101
All-Star
JJJ at least plays defense, but it's still a big over pay by 2x.
Section 101
All-Star
The Kings don't need to do anything to lower his value. He and his father do that on their own.
Livinthedream
All-Star
May be true. If Marvin is not part of the plan with this team, he's not worth the $7 mil either.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
You can think past the injuries, squint a little, and see JJJ as a 3 & D stud that could flourish in today’s NBA. No clue about his attitude.
Think past Marv’s injuries? Zero defense 3 years later and a slightly improved outside shot and still rumblings of an attitude issue.
I agree JJJ is an overpay, but you can see the rationale. I also see why the Kings didn’t bother with an extension for the Bag Man.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I’m surprised to see some of you willing to poison the well with potential free agents and draftees (who could be assets in their own right) in order to manipulate Bagley’s QO. This franchise has just redeemed itself such that it’s getting good prospects to come and work out again, and you’re willing to throw that away for a $7 million gamble on Bagley. I could not disagree more.
Padrino
All-Star
A prior GM managing an asset poorly is no justification for continuing to manage that asset poorly. I understand that a lot of Kings fans just want to "cut bait and move on" because Marvin Bagley is not Luka Doncic, but at $7 million and 22 years of age, Bagley would have some utility as an offensive spark off the bench with a ceiling that remains unknown. You're not going to find a young big on the free agent market that you can comparably invest in that will bring utility to your bench with upside to burn. Hell, Tristan Thompson is making about $9 million a year just to be a veteran leader who is mildly competent on the defensive end.
Padrino
All-Star
Personally, I don't see it as manipulation. It is convenient, yes, but it's hardly manipulation if you have playoff aspirations and the player in question is unable to contribute to a winning record as a starter. Do you think Bagley should be starting the majority of games this season? If so, then I see your point. If not, then it's just the way it goes. Bagley has been too injured and inconsistent to be gifted the starting nod without question or concern.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Except for the whole “What has Bagley done to earn those starts and minutes” argument that is extremely valid in this case.
He’s a terrible pair next to the long-term freshly signed starter. Why should he start? It isn’t blatant MLB level screwing with guys’ service time to save money stuff here.
yeah exactly this. We still aren't sure Bagley can be a playoff rotation level rotation player. Much less a high-level starter you expect from a #2 pick.
EIM86
Starter
JJJ has played 50+ games 2/3 seasons he’s played. If he can play 50+ this season, it means he only had 1 bad injury season out of 4. Bagley hasn’t even come close to that
Jaren Jackson Jr's contract is an overpay, sure, but he and Bagley are also very different players. Sure, over their careers JJJ has averaged 15.4 and 4.7 while Bagley has averaged 14.5 and 7.5 and both have missed a lot of games due to injury.
But the differences are that (1) Jackson Jr plays a modern NBA big man game (2) Jackson Jr plays defense (3) Jackson Jr is a good fit with his teams best player.
One of Bagley's only areas of improvement is his outside shot. Last season he averaged 34% from outside but it was only on 2.5 attempts per game. His previous two seasons he averaged less than 2 3PA per game and shot a worse percentage. JJJ missed almost all of last season and had poor shooting numbers on a small sample size of games, but the season before he shot nearly 40% from 3 on 6.5 attempts per game.
Bagley still gets wide open looks from outside because he's not a knockdown shooter and teams would rather give him that shot than close hard and have him go inside where he's more effective. JJJ is a better floor spacer right now.
Jackson also is a better and more active defender who gets more steals and blocks than Bagley but more importantly, is much more aware on that end of the court. Bagley still looks to me like he gives token effort on defense but is really just waiting to run out on the break for easy baskets. It seems clear to me that that's where his focus is. He's definitely a much better rebounder (JJJ is pretty abysmal for a guy with his size and length) but otherwise, Jackson both spaces the floor better and is a plus on defense rather than a minus.
And both of those reasons are why Morant and Jackson Jr are a better pairing than Fox and Bagley. Morant needs a floor spacer to open up the lane, and Jackson's shooting and defensive versatility allow him to either play the 5 in small lineups or slide next to a full size center without creating spacing issues on offense and switching issues on defense.
Bagley SHOULD be a good pairing with Fox as a big that can really run the floor and finish, but his defensive shortcomings, inability to consistently space the floor, and tendency to be a black hole with the ball in his hands mean that three years in that duo hasn't worked well together.
I've said for the last couple seasons that Bagley is much more of a throwback PF (with poor defense) in a league that has largely phased out throwback PFs. Without great outside shooting his best position is probably at the 5 but you can't have him as your defensive anchor and expect to win games.
Bagley shouldn't start games next season because of how it might impact his QO. He also shouldn't come off the bench for the same reason. The only thing that should dictate whether Marvin starts or not is whether putting him in the starting lineup gives the team a better chance to win. Unless something changes dramatically this season, I don't think he does.
But the differences are that (1) Jackson Jr plays a modern NBA big man game (2) Jackson Jr plays defense (3) Jackson Jr is a good fit with his teams best player.
One of Bagley's only areas of improvement is his outside shot. Last season he averaged 34% from outside but it was only on 2.5 attempts per game. His previous two seasons he averaged less than 2 3PA per game and shot a worse percentage. JJJ missed almost all of last season and had poor shooting numbers on a small sample size of games, but the season before he shot nearly 40% from 3 on 6.5 attempts per game.
Bagley still gets wide open looks from outside because he's not a knockdown shooter and teams would rather give him that shot than close hard and have him go inside where he's more effective. JJJ is a better floor spacer right now.
Jackson also is a better and more active defender who gets more steals and blocks than Bagley but more importantly, is much more aware on that end of the court. Bagley still looks to me like he gives token effort on defense but is really just waiting to run out on the break for easy baskets. It seems clear to me that that's where his focus is. He's definitely a much better rebounder (JJJ is pretty abysmal for a guy with his size and length) but otherwise, Jackson both spaces the floor better and is a plus on defense rather than a minus.
And both of those reasons are why Morant and Jackson Jr are a better pairing than Fox and Bagley. Morant needs a floor spacer to open up the lane, and Jackson's shooting and defensive versatility allow him to either play the 5 in small lineups or slide next to a full size center without creating spacing issues on offense and switching issues on defense.
Bagley SHOULD be a good pairing with Fox as a big that can really run the floor and finish, but his defensive shortcomings, inability to consistently space the floor, and tendency to be a black hole with the ball in his hands mean that three years in that duo hasn't worked well together.
I've said for the last couple seasons that Bagley is much more of a throwback PF (with poor defense) in a league that has largely phased out throwback PFs. Without great outside shooting his best position is probably at the 5 but you can't have him as your defensive anchor and expect to win games.
Bagley shouldn't start games next season because of how it might impact his QO. He also shouldn't come off the bench for the same reason. The only thing that should dictate whether Marvin starts or not is whether putting him in the starting lineup gives the team a better chance to win. Unless something changes dramatically this season, I don't think he does.
SCKingsfan
Bench
Someone should change the OP title of this tread. I'm not feeling that love! ;-)
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Lol, but it’s a civil debate this time! No bashing, so we’re good! How we have all grown over the last three years!
whozit
Starter
Secondly, there is nothing to prevent Bagley from earning more. And if he does, good for both him and the team.
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