So You Wanna Rebuild?

[nbrans]

Ok, so, I'm by no means advocating blowing things up and starting over, but things are a little dead around here, and, well, what's more fun than a few pie in the sky trade proposals? (don't answer that) If the Kings decided to build a young team around Kevin Martin here's what it might look like:

Trade #1: (I'm ashamed to admit that I got this idea from the realgm trade board)
Sacramento outgoing:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas
Sacramento incoming:
Luol Deng
Mike Sweetney
PJ Brown
Knicks #1

Explanation: Yes, you lose your heart and soul. You gain Deng, a 21 year old star on the rise, erase Kenny Thomas' deal, and get a shot at Oden/Durant/Noah/Horford (i.e. your star big man of the future)

Trade #2
Sacramento outgoing:
Brad Miller
Sacramento incoming:
Theo Ratliff
Al Jefferson

Explanation: Trade Brad Miller to the Celtics, who may have too many young players for their own good and are hoping to make a push into respectability while Pierce is still in his prime. Ratliff's contract comes off the books when Deng and Martin are due for extensions.

Trade #3
Sacramento outgoing
Mike Bibby (S&T)
Sacramento incoming
Mo Williams (S&T)
$7 million trade exception

Explanation: Kings go younger at the point, avoid overpaying Bibby and get a trade exception. It's not pretty (in fact it's extremely ugly) but there's more.

Free Agency #1:
Sacramento outgoing
$7 million trade exception
1st Round pick
Sacramento incoming
Anderson Verejao/Darko Milicic (S&T)

Explanation: Kings get a hustler or a shotblocker, take your pick. See? That Bibby trade wasn't so bad. The Kings won't need that pick because they will have had two in the previous draft, the Knicks' pick and their own pick.

Free Agency #2:
Kings sign Brevin Knight with MLE

And... after all those trades and signs are made, here's your opening day 2007/2008 Kings:

PG: Mo Williams (23 years old)/Brevin Knight/Ronnie Price
SG: Kevin Martin (23 years old)/Salmons/Douby
SF: Luol Deng (21 years old)/Salmons/Garcia
PF: Al Jefferson (21 years old)/Shareef/Darko
C: Oden or Noah or X draftee/Darko (21 years old)/Ratliff

There's your young, athletic bunch with a little veteran leadership and multiple shotblockers. See? Easy as pie! (or maybe easy as pie in the sky)

 

[thatguy]

Re: Trade #1

It is pretty obvious that idea came from RealGM. The Bulls would be giving up an awful lot. Maybe Deng, but no way are they giving up a lottery pick for the Artest Experience. Plus, Thomas for Brown eliminates the cap room they are trying to create.

 

[nbrans]

It is pretty obvious that idea came from RealGM. The Bulls would be giving up an awful lot. Maybe Deng, but no way are they giving up a lottery pick for the Artest Experience. Plus, Thomas for Brown eliminates the cap room they are trying to create.

I'd have to agree with you.

 

[BALLER4LIFE]

There is NO way artest gets traded... the 2 untouchables on the kings are artest and kmart.

 

[nbrans]

There is NO way artest gets traded... the 2 untouchables on the kings are artest and kmart.

Here's the thing about Ron. When the Kings first got him I was like, "It would be a cold day in hell the day the Kings traded him, no way no how, franchise player, etc." But with the way he's played in the first 8 games, with the uncertainty about whether he's ever going to "get it" enough for the Kings to win the championship with him, I don't know if I feel that way anymore. The fact is that Ron cannot take the most shots, and he imploded on his last team because he wasn't taking the most shots. I'm not advocating trading him, I don't want the Kings to trade him, obviously the preference is to build around him and cross your fingers that he "gets it." But in the course of the last half season I've gone from "no way in hell" to "maybe for a great offer."

So yeah, this deal is unlikely, I hope Ron gets it and the Kings get inside help and contend with him. I don't know if I'd go so far and call him "untouchable."

 

[Bricklayer]

No no.

Losing a young franchise stud like Artest is rarely the way to rebuild. Even if he's only good enough to be a #2 star on a title team, he is still one of only a few dozen players in the NBA who is a true impact player, and he damn well might be the single best defensive player in the league. What happened last year after Ron arrived revealed something. Not about the numbers. Just baout the impact. People miss that sometimes. Some guys look pretty, some guys actually impact games and entire franchises, Ron is one of the latter.

Inj any case Artest remains the #1 untouchable on the team. Then Kevin next. Am willing to listen to, and propose, all sorts of rebuilding plans involving all of the middle aged enders, Brad, SAR, Kenny, and even Mike (although not for Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao while also tossing in a #1 !). Would theoretically part with Kevin for a superstar type guy. But not Ron.

 

[John Galt]

If we trade Ron I'll figure we "bought low and sold high".

Not that I don't love Ron - I do. I love him. But I don't quite feel secure with him as the franchise cornerstone.

So I wouldn't howl if he was moved at maybe the peak of his market value, but I don't dream up "trade Ron" scenarios because I'm so very glad he's on my team.

Anyway, I hope the team doesn't "rebuild". The team is good enough now to be tough at home and entertaining overall. Maybe weasle into the playoffs. Good enough for me (verus paying a couple years of rebuilding dues {at contender ticket prices so potentially some other city can reap the reward with the "rebuilt" team} ). {added after Bricklayer's comment below}

Now if we get a 30 year arena lease in place, then I'll be happy to rebuild around Kevin and wait it out.

 

[Bricklayer]

Anyway, I hope the team doesn't "rebuild". The team is good enough now to be tough at home and entertaining overall. Maybe weasle into the playoffs. Good enough for me (verus paying a couple years of rebuilding dues).

That's terrible. I mean...that's the ultimate nightmare. Rather suck than be a cowardly franchise with no aspirations of ever winning. What's the point? Actually more fun to be bad, REALLY bad, than it is to be mediocre and pointless. At least really bad leads somewhere.


BTW, does this thread count as the first of my recently predicted "trade Ron, make Kevin the franchise" threads? If so, didn't take long.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't think the Maloofs are ever goint to want to fully "re-build". They don't seem like they have the patience or their minds work that way. They want to win. For better or worse.

Have to agree with Brick, that's not really how you should rebuild. Taking every good to great player on your team and dumping them starts you back at zero but that isn't exactly a good thing.

But I would also agree that anything you get from Ron would have to be considered bought low sold high. But we did lose Peja who is a damn good player. Of course they way we were playing "stars" or any other player and what level they are on seems rather insignificant when you are losing.

 

[fnordius]

I agree that the Maloofs don't impress me as the rebuilding sort, I think they'd rather respond to disappointment by intervening in team management, firing people, etc. But if they were inclined towards rebuilding, my thought would be to trade most of the team away for expiring contracts and draft picks. Everybody's going to have their own ideas about who, aside from KMart, should be spared, which is fine... if we could trade for some young and promising players, great! But if not, P.J.Brown, Eddie Jones, James Posey, Reuben Patterson and Joe Smith are just the sort of guys for us (plus four first round picks, of course).

Anyway, we'd head straight into the lottery this year, but might have a truly great team within 4 years or so.

 

[hearns]

What about Bibby+Thomas for Devis Harris+Croshere+Stackhouse?

MAVS:
Bibby/Johnson
Terry/Buckner
Howard/George
Nowitzi/Thomas
Dampier/Diop

Dallas would be the favourite to win the title. The defense of Bibby wouldn't be a problem with players like Terry,Buckner,Howard,Dampier,Diop around him, and Thomas would be a great back up for Dirk.

Sacramento acquire a young pg with potential and two expirings. With all that money a big free agent could land here.

 

[uopmatt]

Trading Artest..

I'm all for trading Artest as long as we get equal commodity in return. The guy just doesn't seem to understand that his team is never going to win when he is chucking up 20 plus shots a game. He is never going to be a bryant-like player. Why he doesn't play in the post more where he is almost unstoppable, I don't know. I can't stand it when he tries to take over a game. When is he going to learn to take shots in the flow of the offense? He just seems way to selfish on offense for me sometimes.

 

[greypoupon]

It is pretty obvious that idea came from RealGM. The Bulls would be giving up an awful lot. Maybe Deng, but no way are they giving up a lottery pick for the Artest Experience. Plus, Thomas for Brown eliminates the cap room they are trying to create.

Nobody is giving up a lottery ticket for Greg Oden. They're not trading that pick (if they trade it) until the lottery results are finished in May.

 

[DETON8ER]

Al jefferson the starter

 

[crutonimo]

Hearns hit it on the head...If Dallas does this you start dancing around and celebrating

Trade Mike Bibby., whether you rebuild or not...

 

[nbrans]

BTW, does this thread count as the first of my recently predicted "trade Ron, make Kevin the franchise" threads? If so, didn't take long.

That was not my intent, no -- the idea was just to build a very young team. I was just curious though, about how people felt about the possibility of trading Artest, which is why I made that first deal a ridiculously lopsided deal. Deng and a high first round pick in a loaded draft for Artest plus erasing Thomas' deal? I mean, I consider Ron the franchise and everything, but I don't think he's the type of player where you just say no to that type of a deal out of principle. He's a tone-setter, a tough guy, a guy you always want on your side, but he's not a guy where you hang up the phone without listening first.

In any case, it's not realistic, nor was it really meant to be, and I definitely wasn't trying to favor Kevin over Artest, but I also don't believe in sacred cows. Everyone is tradeable for the right deal.

 

[Troy]

No no.

Losing a young franchise stud like Artest is rarely the way to rebuild. Even if he's only good enough to be a #2 star on a title team, he is still one of only a few dozen players in the NBA who is a true impact player, and he damn well might be the single best defensive player in the league. What happened last year after Ron arrived revealed something. Not about the numbers. Just baout the impact. People miss that sometimes. Some guys look pretty, some guys actually impact games and entire franchises, Ron is one of the latter.

Inj any case Artest remains the #1 untouchable on the team. Then Kevin next. Am willing to listen to, and propose, all sorts of rebuilding plans involving all of the middle aged enders, Brad, SAR, Kenny, and even Mike (although not for Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao while also tossing in a #1 !). Would theoretically part with Kevin for a superstar type guy. But not Ron.

Exactly, I'd say Ron is pretty much untouchable as he righly should be followed by KMart. After that it's all about what can we get for the rest of the guys. We know Pot, Corliss, Hart, Taylor are off the books after this year. Cisco could be a very good dynamic player if he settles down. Price is just an amazing young PG! Wow, I cannot get his dunk over Boozer out of my head, I could watch that 100s of times and not get bored, it was that good!!!! He is also a tenacious defender and kept Darin Williams from driving to the hoop. That really brings me and I think many of us to a conclusion...while Bibby is a great shooter and one of the top PGs in the league, he is so bad defensively and is more of a shoot 1st, pass 2nd PG that I would really love a Chris Paul, Darin Williams (if he continues to play like he is now and grow), Kirk Heinrich. Bibby does play through pain and is a leader, but he is sure making some big $, more than Nash.

Same with Brad, he is one of the top Centers in the league, but a young Dalembert, Tyson Chandler, plus vet scrub big man, etc and I'd trade him.

To summarize, the only untouchables are Artest and Kmart. Bibby and Miller are untouchable until the offer sounds pretty good.

Really in life, just about anything is for sale, for the right price of course!

 

[BMiller52]

Wow, someone shoot me in the face please.

 

[Troy]

That was not my intent, no -- the idea was just to build a very young team. I was just curious though, about how people felt about the possibility of trading Artest, which is why I made that first deal a ridiculously lopsided deal. Deng and a high first round pick in a loaded draft for Artest plus erasing Thomas' deal? I mean, I consider Ron the franchise and everything, but I don't think he's the type of player where you just say no to that type of a deal out of principle. He's a tone-setter, a tough guy, a guy you always want on your side, but he's not a guy where you hang up the phone without listening first.

In any case, it's not realistic, nor was it really meant to be, and I definitely wasn't trying to favor Kevin over Artest, but I also don't believe in sacred cows. Everyone is tradeable for the right deal.

You have to listen to the phone about any player. Even Kobe is worth maybe 3-4 good players, maybe not all starters, but a combo of maybe 2 starters, 2 bench.

Just about anything in life is for sale, well except maybe the wife/husband and kids....but after that how much do you want to give me for my house....car....pets..... ......SOLD....now when will I be getting the $$$$????


I'm sure the Wolves are hearing all kinds of offers for KG for sometime now. At some point though, even if a player is Kobe, Artest, Lebron, etc if you can get 3-4 players for 1 player that are decent/good and unpaid/young, then you should at least consider it. Especially when you have a player making over $15M or so, you don't want to get 3-5 garbage players, but young talent can be had for a low price, at least in the 1st few years. Just think if that player gets hurt and has a career ending/altering injury like CWebb, you can use those 3-5 players and if they are combo guys, that helps as well.

I'm not really thrilled with the CWebb for the 3 guys we got, it really was a 3 for 3 trade....moveable parts are overated...at least here in Kingsland!!! You at least should listen and if you have a premier player than you can afford to be greedy, you have the upper hand.

While I think Artest does shoot way too much, I know I'm not alone here....he feels he needs to inorder to carry this team. He wants to win so bad, and that is hard to put a price on...he has the heart and work ethic of a champion, he just has to play to his and his teams strengths and be strong enough to listen to guidance and do what's best for the team. I wouldn't put too much into Ron chunking up too many shots and writing him off, he hasn't been here that long and we are still jelling.

If we do decide to go the young route then let's blow it up soon, Bibby and Miller aren't getting any younger!

 

[fnordius]

I'm all for trading Artest as long as we get equal commodity in return. The guy just doesn't seem to understand that his team is never going to win when he is chucking up 20 plus shots a game.

If he was capable of objectively evaluating his own performance, do you think he'd still be making CDs?

"According to SoundScan, the oddball baller and brawler, Sacramento Kings' small forward Ron Artest , 26, has sold 343 copies of his rap album, 'My World,' since its release last month. SoundScan, an information system that tracks sales of music, added that amounts to about 5 percent of Kevin Federline's first-week total." -- Detroit News

I think that works out to 335 copies sold to Kings fans, and 8 copies sold to members of the Artest family.