Darth Divac
Bench
'Nuff said.
So when do we retire Peja's jersey(and possibly Bibby's too)?
- Thread starter Darth Divac
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We don't. Not at the level of retired jerseys.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Based off of numbers I'd like to see Peja's. Based off of impact i wish Bobby Jackson would to. I know that will ever happen but there's no doubt they are all time kings.
Darth Divac
Bench
Peja, who averaged 20.8 points on 45% shooting in eight years with us? Who finished fourth in MVP voting in 2004 and had 3 All-Star appearances, all in Sacramento? And Mike, who averaged 17 points and 5.4 assists in 7 years with us, while hitting a game-winner in the 2002 WCF run? Gee, I really wonder why we'd retire their jerseys. Such a conundrum.
Last edited:
uolj
Starter
From a quick check of DatabaseBasketball.com he averaged 18.3 points for the Kings.
And regardless, he didn't matter nearly enough to get his jersey retired. There has to be some historical significance to the player for the team to retire his jersey. Richmond, Webber, and Divac all were historically significant to the Kings. Peja and Bibby, not as much.
Padrino
All-Star
averaging 20 pts per game and finishing fourth in a single season's MVP voting is hardly worthy of rafter space. don't get me wrong, i was always a fan of peja's. he was one the league's all-time great shooters. but mitch richmond was the first sacramento king of stature. c-webb was a legitimate superstar and the unquestioned face of the franchise during his run with sacramento. and vlade divac was among the first crop of successful european talents to make their mark in the league. he was a special talent given his position, evolving the notion of what a big man's role is on his team, and remains a global ambassador of the nba. those kinds of distinctions merit jersey retirement...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You don't retire the jerseys of every good player who passes through town. Soon you'd be out of numbers entirely and it makes the honor meaningless. Number retirements are for the giants. HOFs or close with the occasional special case like Vlade. The "So and so and the Sacramento Kings" guys. Those guys were never the franchise, here or elsewhere.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
See brick's note above. There are no rules as to whose number gets retired as different teams have different skill levels of players. If the Lakers retired the number of every player at the level of Peja, they'd have no numbers left.
My inner standard is that I want a reminder of a player hanging from the rafters if it is a person I don't want forgotten. For instance, look at the name Lacy hanging from the rafters. It almost gets you to look up records and find out about him. Anyway the three numbers retired in the Kings' era seem to be the proper numbers.
Can I suggest that "'Nuff said" is not an adequate point to make when suggesting something?
My inner standard is that I want a reminder of a player hanging from the rafters if it is a person I don't want forgotten. For instance, look at the name Lacy hanging from the rafters. It almost gets you to look up records and find out about him. Anyway the three numbers retired in the Kings' era seem to be the proper numbers.
Can I suggest that "'Nuff said" is not an adequate point to make when suggesting something?
Section 101
All-Star
Lets actually check some stats for Kings career. These all include the 3 current players hanging (mitch, chris, vlade), LTrain and Peja. Going by Peja's comparison to the 3 hanging then yes he should be there too.
Through 2006 season. Bibby is shorted on this list.
Minutes Played - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 19532
2. Peja Stojakovic 17723
3. Chris Webber 14627
4. Mike Bibby 13725
5. Vlade Divac 13676
6. Lionel Simmons 13472
Games Played - Career
1. Peja Stojakovic 518
2. Mitch Richmond 517
3. Vlade Divac 454
4. Lionel Simmons 454
5. Duane Causwell 429
6. Corliss Williamson 398
7. Mike Bibby 379
8. Chris Webber 377
Games Started - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 517
2. Vlade Divac 453
3. Peja Stojakovic 408
4. Mike Bibby 379
5. Chris Webber 377
6. Wayman Tisdale 363
7. Doug Christie 355
8. Lionel Simmons 307
Points Scored - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 12070
2. Peja Stojakovic 9498
3. Chris Webber 8843
4. Wayman Tisdale 6808
5. Mike Bibby 6778
6. Lionel Simmons 5833
7. Vlade Divac 5176
Total Rebounds - Career
1. Chris Webber 4007
2. Vlade Divac 3538
3. Olden Polynice 3053
4. Lionel Simmons 2833
5. Wayman Tisdale 2676
6. Peja Stojakovic 2581
7. LaSalle Thompson 2276
8. Otis Thorpe 2242
9. Duane Causwell 2009
10. Mitch Richmond 1933
Assists - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 2128
2. Mike Bibby 2117
3. Spud Webb 2024
4. Reggie Theus 1943
5. Chris Webber 1791
6. Vlade Divac 1693
7. Doug Christie 1505
8. Lionel Simmons 1498
Steals - Career
1. Doug Christie 717
2. Mitch Richmond 670
3. Chris Webber 568
4. Peja Stojakovic 543
5. Lionel Simmons 514
6. Mike Bibby 477
7. Vlade Divac 453
Blocks - Career
1. Duane Causwell 695
2. Chris Webber 553
3. Vlade Divac 523
4. LaSalle Thompson 363
5. Lionel Simmons 361
3-Pt Field Goals
1. Peja Stojakovic 1070
2. Mitch Richmond 993
3. Mike Bibby 775
4. Francisco Garcia 475
5. Kevin Martin 459
Free Throw Pct
1. Peja Stojakovic .893
2. Jon Barry .886
3. Doug Christie .863
Through 2006 season. Bibby is shorted on this list.
Minutes Played - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 19532
2. Peja Stojakovic 17723
3. Chris Webber 14627
4. Mike Bibby 13725
5. Vlade Divac 13676
6. Lionel Simmons 13472
Games Played - Career
1. Peja Stojakovic 518
2. Mitch Richmond 517
3. Vlade Divac 454
4. Lionel Simmons 454
5. Duane Causwell 429
6. Corliss Williamson 398
7. Mike Bibby 379
8. Chris Webber 377
Games Started - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 517
2. Vlade Divac 453
3. Peja Stojakovic 408
4. Mike Bibby 379
5. Chris Webber 377
6. Wayman Tisdale 363
7. Doug Christie 355
8. Lionel Simmons 307
Points Scored - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 12070
2. Peja Stojakovic 9498
3. Chris Webber 8843
4. Wayman Tisdale 6808
5. Mike Bibby 6778
6. Lionel Simmons 5833
7. Vlade Divac 5176
Total Rebounds - Career
1. Chris Webber 4007
2. Vlade Divac 3538
3. Olden Polynice 3053
4. Lionel Simmons 2833
5. Wayman Tisdale 2676
6. Peja Stojakovic 2581
7. LaSalle Thompson 2276
8. Otis Thorpe 2242
9. Duane Causwell 2009
10. Mitch Richmond 1933
Assists - Career
1. Mitch Richmond 2128
2. Mike Bibby 2117
3. Spud Webb 2024
4. Reggie Theus 1943
5. Chris Webber 1791
6. Vlade Divac 1693
7. Doug Christie 1505
8. Lionel Simmons 1498
Steals - Career
1. Doug Christie 717
2. Mitch Richmond 670
3. Chris Webber 568
4. Peja Stojakovic 543
5. Lionel Simmons 514
6. Mike Bibby 477
7. Vlade Divac 453
Blocks - Career
1. Duane Causwell 695
2. Chris Webber 553
3. Vlade Divac 523
4. LaSalle Thompson 363
5. Lionel Simmons 361
3-Pt Field Goals
1. Peja Stojakovic 1070
2. Mitch Richmond 993
3. Mike Bibby 775
4. Francisco Garcia 475
5. Kevin Martin 459
Free Throw Pct
1. Peja Stojakovic .893
2. Jon Barry .886
3. Doug Christie .863
Last edited:
macadocious
Starter
What he says.
Getting your jersey retired is an honor reserved for an elite few. We were lucky enough to have two guys who so complemented each other's games that they made each other better. And their jerseys were raised to the rafters in the same year. Vlade and Webber are immortals, Peja and Bibby the guys who carried their capes.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
IMO, the only jersey's worthy of retirement in the Sacramento era were Mitch Richmond and Chris Webber.
With all due respect to Mr. Divac (and this site's own VF21) I don't feel he was worthy of jersey retirement and it set precedent wherein guy like Peja and Bibby appear just as worthy, if not more.
Why Richmond and Webber? Despite neither winning a title and despite Richmond mostly playing on a bad team, they are widely recognized and acknowledged as the 2 best players the franchise has ever had during the Sacramento era.
Webber was unequivocally the best player on all those 50, 60+ win teams that came within an eyelash of winning an NBA title (yes, I confidently assume the Kings destroy New Jersey had they beaten LA). At his peak in Sacramento, Webber was arguably one of the top 5 players in the league. No other Sacramento Kings player can say that.
Richmond put the Kings on the map. He was their first all-star. He won the 1995 All-Star MVP. He's one of only a few players to average over 21+ ppg the first 10 years of his career. During his peak in Sacramento, he was widely regarded as one of the best SG's in the NBA behind only Michael Jordan and, possibly, Clyde Drexler. Jordan has stated numerous times that Mitch defended him as well, if not better, than anyone he played against.
Why not Divac, Peja and Bibby? They were never the best player on their teams. They didn't make the same impact on the franchise as Webber and Richmond did. Peja and Bibby had longer tenures with the team and may have accumulated more franchise related stats, but they weren't stars of the team. Without Webber, the Kings were a very good playoff team, but not a title contender. Without Richmond, the Kings never get Webber.
With all due respect to Mr. Divac (and this site's own VF21) I don't feel he was worthy of jersey retirement and it set precedent wherein guy like Peja and Bibby appear just as worthy, if not more.
Why Richmond and Webber? Despite neither winning a title and despite Richmond mostly playing on a bad team, they are widely recognized and acknowledged as the 2 best players the franchise has ever had during the Sacramento era.
Webber was unequivocally the best player on all those 50, 60+ win teams that came within an eyelash of winning an NBA title (yes, I confidently assume the Kings destroy New Jersey had they beaten LA). At his peak in Sacramento, Webber was arguably one of the top 5 players in the league. No other Sacramento Kings player can say that.
Richmond put the Kings on the map. He was their first all-star. He won the 1995 All-Star MVP. He's one of only a few players to average over 21+ ppg the first 10 years of his career. During his peak in Sacramento, he was widely regarded as one of the best SG's in the NBA behind only Michael Jordan and, possibly, Clyde Drexler. Jordan has stated numerous times that Mitch defended him as well, if not better, than anyone he played against.
Why not Divac, Peja and Bibby? They were never the best player on their teams. They didn't make the same impact on the franchise as Webber and Richmond did. Peja and Bibby had longer tenures with the team and may have accumulated more franchise related stats, but they weren't stars of the team. Without Webber, the Kings were a very good playoff team, but not a title contender. Without Richmond, the Kings never get Webber.
Padrino
All-Star
to claim vlade divac was not worthy of his jersey retirement is to fail to grasp divac's impact on the way the center position is played in the nba, as well as his impact on the globalization of the nba. not to mention the fact that he was the first piece of the golden era's puzzle, and the glue that held it all together through every up, down, injury, and setback...
With all due respect, you underestimate the value of Vlade Divac to this franchise at your peril.
Without Vlade signing with the Kings AS A FREE AGENT, there would have been no one here to greet Webber and convince him there was something worth working for. Without Vlade, Peja would have been lost. Vlade was the ultimate and consummate professional, and a role-model for a lot of our players. He was and still is a true gentleman, and a ambassador from the world of sports who has given much more of himself than you could possibly realize.
Vlade was also a constant presence in the community, giving of his time and his money to help those less fortunate, often without fanfare or publicity.
On the court, Vlade was the heart of our team. Webber may have been the best, but it was Vlade who held everything together. As someone who was at both Webber and Vlade's retirement jersey ceremonies, I can say with all honesty that BOTH of those individuals were rightfully honored for their deeds and their commitment to our team. And their respect for each other is paramount.
If you're going to judge someone solely by whether or not they were the BEST player on the team, you might as well take down at least one of the jerseys currently in the rafters. But before you do, you might want to read the stories. It isn't solely about performance; it's about humanity and dedication and commitment and heart.
During Webb's ceremony, he teared up and hugged Vlade at one point, stating for all to hear that he (Webber) would not be standing there that day to receive the honor if it weren't for Vlade Divac.
I could go on and on but you are entitled to your opinion. I will never, however, agree with it and I think you're doing a vast disservice to the man by saying he didn't make the same impact on the franchise as Webber and Richmond did. I could talk about Richmond's contribution, which basically entailed him being traded after he had given up on the Kings, but that's neither here nor there.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Padrino and VF21, I'm not failing to understand Vlade's importance to the team. I fully understand it. Furthermore, I understand Vlade's importance to the game of basketball on a global scale. I've been watching the game for a long time and, when it comes to the Kings, have seen a vast majority of all their games since they moved to Sac. I have a really good grasp of Kings history.
Fact is, the Kings never won a title. Had they done so, I would have no problem including Divac given that he was the glue that held the team together. But if you don't win a title, don't accomplish anything uniquely historic or were never a franchise type player or one of the top 5 or 10 players in the league during your prime ... I have a hard time believing you're worthy of jersey retirement. But that's just me. Obviously, I'm in the minority on this and that's fine. My main point is that, given my opinion on Divac, there's no way do I believe Peja or Bibby should be considered.
Lastly, I'm really not trying to touch any nerves or disparage Vlade in any way. I really liked him as a player and as a King. And I'm certainly not going to try to argue and convince anybody I'm right. It's just a subjective opinion and I gave several reasons why I feel the way I do. Regardless, again, the main point is that if I don't feel Divac jersey is worthy of retirement, I'm most definitely gonna feel the same of Peja and Bibby. I love both players, but they weren't even as impactful as Vlade.
Fact is, the Kings never won a title. Had they done so, I would have no problem including Divac given that he was the glue that held the team together. But if you don't win a title, don't accomplish anything uniquely historic or were never a franchise type player or one of the top 5 or 10 players in the league during your prime ... I have a hard time believing you're worthy of jersey retirement. But that's just me. Obviously, I'm in the minority on this and that's fine. My main point is that, given my opinion on Divac, there's no way do I believe Peja or Bibby should be considered.
Lastly, I'm really not trying to touch any nerves or disparage Vlade in any way. I really liked him as a player and as a King. And I'm certainly not going to try to argue and convince anybody I'm right. It's just a subjective opinion and I gave several reasons why I feel the way I do. Regardless, again, the main point is that if I don't feel Divac jersey is worthy of retirement, I'm most definitely gonna feel the same of Peja and Bibby. I love both players, but they weren't even as impactful as Vlade.
HereWeStay
Bench
vlade kept the locker room intact, that was his role, with out him, we do not have the glory years plain and simple
Sac.1989
Starter
We need to worry about reke and boogie's jersey retirement. We should need to worry about that in the future if we do things right, our sole focus should be on getting our team situation right and then making up for lost time. We have the ability to be great again
Remember the past but we have to focus on the future.
Remember the past but we have to focus on the future.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I like both Bibby and Peja and as a countrymen, I am proud of what Peja has accomplished in the NBA but there is no way either of them deserves to have their jersey retired!
L
LWP777
Guest
I'm also in the no retired jersey camp for Peja and especially not Bibby. Even though I absolutely loved the guy on and off the court, I have to agree with some that retiring Divac's jersey was borderline. Ultimately, I'm okay with it but I think the purist in me thinks he probably shouldn't be up there. If he didn't have the enormous global popularity that he has there would be no chance it would have been retired.
Last edited by a moderator:
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Do you remember where Webb's career was before the Kings traded for him? What was it that suddenly changed the direction of that career. One could argue that it was Vlade Divac. Webb brought a great smile, 20 plus points a game, and a lot of rebounds to the Kings. Vlade brought magic! Vlade brought the chemistry that glued that team together. There are some things that you can't see, or measure, that are more important than those you can. Vlade was the leader of that team, and you have to wonder if Webb would have been the same player without Vlade on that team. Webb credited Vlade for his success when his number was retired. And still does to this day.
Numbers aren't retired because of a championship or gaudy stats. They're retired because a player brought something that impacted a team in a way that no one else could. There are players that played on that team, whose names elude us. But no one will ever forget Vlade Divac. He brought class, respect and legitimacy to the team, and made everyone around him better for it. Vlade brought magic!
