Skiles out as Coach of Bulls

Jerryaki

Jerryaki

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http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/49909/20071224/chicago_fires_skiles/

Chicago Fires Skiles
December 24, 2007 - 12:34 pm
Press Release -
Chicago Bulls ' Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations John Paxson today announced that Scott Skiles has been relieved of his duties as the team’s head coach.

In a statement released this morning, Paxson said:

“This was a difficult decision to make, but one that was necessary at this time. Scott helped us in many ways during his time with the Bulls; most importantly, he helped this franchise get back to respectability. I am appreciative of his hard work and the imprint that he left on our team.”

At this time, no decision has been made on Skiles’ replacement. On November 28, 2003, Skiles became the fifteenth head coach in franchise history when he succeeded Bill Cartwright. Over the span of five seasons with the Bulls, he compiled a record of 165-172 (.490) and guided the team to the playoffs three consecutive years, highlighted by a first-round series sweep of the defending NBA Champion Miami Heat in the 2007 NBA Playoffs. In eight-plus seasons as a head coach in the NBA, Skiles owns a career coaching record of 281-251 (.528).
 
There's a lesson for all the people who want a hard*** coach who rides the players until they hate him and calls them out publicly in the media.
 
Good riddance, and about time.

Was wondering how long it would be before people woke up and smelled the coffee there. What has Skiles ever won? He strangled that team. Might well be a guy who can get you organized, get you respectable, and then you have to can his *** because he will actually stand in the way of you ever getting better. Chased off and alienated a lot of their young players in recent years though. Wonder who is left out there to try to take over? Surely not Larry Brown??
 
Bricklayer said:
He was one of them -- team burned out on him and tuned him out.
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That may be true, but I have to question this decision until they replace him with someone who helps the team get better. Seems that they are placing the blame squarely on his shoulders. To be fair, anytime a team that went to the second round of the playoffs comes out the next season and starts 9-16, the coach has to carry a large portion of the blame. I just wonder who they expect to bring in as an improvement over Skiles.
 
Superman said:
That may be true, but I have to question this decision until they replace him with someone who helps the team get better. Seems that they are placing the blame squarely on his shoulders. To be fair, anytime a team that went to the second round of the playoffs comes out the next season and starts 9-16, the coach has to carry a large portion of the blame. I just wonder who they expect to bring in as an improvement over Skiles.
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Anybody who lets them breath will help at this point.

Skiles is a humorless little petty despot. Good for getting people's attention, but that wears on you and it makes it very hard for a team to develop any internal chemsitry or leadership when your coach interprets any such as a threat to his power. Now there's at least a chance. I think they were hihgly hihgly, stupidly, overrated regardless of the coach -- who the hell was the star player supposed to be? Deng? But I'm willing to bet that there will be a sudden burst in performance for a number of Bulls just from a relief of the pressure if nothing else. Big Ben may even come out of retirment, although we'll have to see what he's got left.
 
Why doesn't it work? It seemed to work well enough for the past three years. Personally, I'm inclined to believe that Ben Wallace and his mangina got him fired.

I don't know, maybe it's me... Maybe it's the by-product of being raised by two military parents, and serving in the military myself, but the concept of an allegedly grown-*** man not being able to function at his best because the guy put in charge of him is a hardass is such a foreign concept to me as to render me incapable of grasping it... I mean, didn't men used to be made of sterner stuff than that?

Reminds me of a Red Forman quote from That 70s Show: "What kind of man starts crying after only fifteen minutes of yelling?"
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Why doesn't it work? It seemed to work well enough for the past three years. Personally, I'm inclined to believe that Ben Wallace and his mangina got him fired.

I don't know, maybe it's me... Maybe it's the by-product of being raised by two military parents, and serving in the military myself, but the concept of an allegedly grown-*** man not being able to function at his best because the guy put in charge of him is a hardass is such a foreign concept to me as to render me incapable of grasping it... I mean, didn't men used to be made of sterner stuff than that?

Reminds me of a Red Forman quote from That 70s Show: "What kind of man starts crying after only fifteen minutes of yelling?"
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I agree it is absolutely a matter of perspective -- in many ways I would have to be called a hardass myself. But I'm not a submissive hardass, for anyone. You get in my face, I get in yours, and I really don't care who you are. And that badge, rank, title or whatever doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to me. I'll respect that rank, but only, and I do mean only, if you respect me back the other way. If not, screw you. Combativeness is a very useful trait in athletics, or in my particular line of work. I've done well at both, and being ornery has been a significant part of it (my obvious problems with authority figures have occasionally been a hindrance however ;) ). And so I 100% completely understand how I, and how many of these guys, respond to a Scott Skiles. There comes a point where its enough, back off already, and then finally its just STFU little man.

Guys have to want to play for you. And I think what Skiles has done the last few years is drive them as far as he can forcing them to play for him. But they have never ignited to anything more than a boring, slightly above average team. And part of that is they have had aboslutely no desire to go win one for the coach, little esprit d' corps, and not much self will. You can only go to the whip so many times before the animal has had enough, and you really know you have a winner when you never have to break out the whip at all.

And I do separate that from a guy like Pop, because I think Pop has a humanity about him that the steel rod jammed up Skiles butt entirely prevents him from having. Pop can be self-effacing, he's apparently personable off the court and involved in a humble friend sort of way with his players' personal lives. It softens the hardass. He's not aloof, unapproachable, me coach you maggot. His guys want to play for him. I've just never seen that with Skiles. His players, at any of his stops, have never rallied around him. Half the time they seem to be rallying together against him.

P.S. And yes, I never would have made it out of basic training. ;) I have often imagined the novelty of the scene the first time a drill sergeant got in my face...would have been...colorful.
 
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Bricklayer said:
P.S. And yes, I never would have made it out of basic training. ;) I have often imagined the novelty of the scene the first time a drill sergeant got in my face...would have been...colorful.
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Yeah... I'm imagining an R. Lee Ermey moment.

I'll grant you that it's definitely a matter of perspective; I just happen to think that professional athletes have too much a sense of entitlement, and are largely wusses.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Yeah... I'm imagining an R. Lee Ermey moment.

I'll grant you that it's definitely a matter of perspective; I just happen to think that professional athletes have too much a sense of entitlement, and are largely wusses.
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a lot of them do not have a sense of entitlement. and it's unfair to skiles to assume that he is the problem. it's unfair to the bulls players to assume they are a bunch of crybabies that need to be rocked to sleep.

as for ben wallace, how many coaches does he have to have a problem with before anybody suspects that he is the problem?
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Yeah... I'm imagining an R. Lee Ermey moment.

I'll grant you that it's definitely a matter of perspective; I just happen to think that professional athletes have too much a sense of entitlement, and are largely wusses.
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I agree. I'm tired of hearing about how "courageous" a player is because he comes back from an injury a couple games before it was expected. That's not courage.

I do think that Brick is on point with his assessment of the Bulls tuning Skiles out this season, but I think that he is only half of the problem. Players like Ben Wallace who make a big deal out of not being able to wear a headband on the court lend themselves to lots of criticism. And since Wallace was supposed to be the senior player on the team, his contentiousness certainly wore off on the rest of the team, most of them young and impressionable.

I don't know how great of a decision it was for the Bulls to get rid of Skiles when they did, especially since there's not a clear-cut favorite assistant that's has been waiting in the wings to take over. But I do think that he eventually had to go.

It's kind of like how the Cowboys needed Parcells to get them fundamentally sound, crack the whip so to speak, and then Wade Phillips comes in and brings a more laid-back approach, and the Cowboys suddenly become the best team in the NFC. I don't think the Bulls have the talent to become one of the best teams in the League, but I do think that they needed to eventually part ways with Skiles.

Maybe they need to part ways with some players also.
 
Of course, Skiles getting canned has a lot to do with Skiles the coach, but Skiles as a hard-*** who lost the team is a red herring if I ever saw one.

According to Wallace (quoted in Tribune), Chicago beat writers and Skiles himself - Skiles quit on this team, not the other way around.

Skiles was a hard ***, that's why he got fired by the Suns and that's why he made some adjustments. He got too much flack for being a company man (for example no-head-bands rule was Paxson's team rule that Skiles enforced) but the players that he came down on were either traded or not renewed. Calling out Tyrus Thomas for 0 effort is not a hard-*** it's frustration precisely because he gives 0 percent.

And if Skiles was such a hard-***, why are leading candidates Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle? You know, those are your typical player-coaches...

Meanwhile...

Pax trades away all Kraus' picks and signings good (Chandler) or bad (Crawford), gives 60 mil to Used-to-be-Big Ben Wallace, holds on to his picks despite KG and Gasol being dangled, maybe even Kobe. Let's see those picks now:

Kirk Heinrich - The Floor Inspector. He absolutely has to bounce the ball of every single piece of hardwood in the building before attempting a half-assed pass or taking bad shot.

Loul Dang - I thought this kid would be a perenial All Star, but to watch him wilt and shrink since Kobe trade-talk is painful.

Ben Gordon - great 6th man, but has no position as a starter. He'd rather be very poor man's Arenas then very rich man's Bobby Jackson.

Tyrus "I want to be Tim when I grow up" Thomas. Enough said.

When you have no PG, no reliable outside shooting, your best low post scorer is someone called Aaron Gray and Ben Wallace is your veteran leader and you still stick with them (even Wallace - for the most part) you should be fired. But so should the GM.
 
bozzwell said:
And if Skiles was such a hard-***, why are leading candidates Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle? You know, those are your typical player-coaches...
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Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown are top candidates? Or are they top suggestions by fans and the media? Pretty big difference in the two.
 
VF21 said:
Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown are top candidates? Or are they top suggestions by fans and the media? Pretty big difference in the two.
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And, by the way, both have shown the ability to actually win in the NBA. Scott Skiles has not.
 
VF21 said:
Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown are top candidates? Or are they top suggestions by fans and the media? Pretty big difference in the two.
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I think that's media speculation because they are the biggest names out there, but Bozzwell is actually in the Chicago area, so perhaps he has superior info.

The amusing thing is the rest of the article where I saw those names raised also mentioned Doug Collins, Jeff Van Gundy, and Mike Fratello. Look at that list -- the biggest name unemployed coaches on the market, and now add Skiles to the list, and you are basically talking about the hardass strangle the team walk the ball up egomaniacal hall of fame. Nearly every major coach of that ilk has been canned in the last couple of years, and I'm not sure which, if any, of them are coming back to coach the Bulls.

As for Skiles burnout -- that is possible too. But its all from the same cause. Constantly yell, berate, fight, whatever, gets exhausting for everybody -- players, coaches, fans. Burnout is inevitable if that's all you've got. Its difficult to go years at a stretch without ever cracking a smile.
 
Hey, maybe they'd be interested in a Power Point guy. Wouldn't that get the Maloofs off the hook for the last year of his salary?

:p
 
VF21 said:
Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown are top candidates? Or are they top suggestions by fans and the media? Pretty big difference in the two.
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From the Bulls beat reporter's first response article. Suggestion is that they are Paxson type of coaches, not that they are just the best available.

Not much sports radio talk from fans, they are still arguing who's fault it is: Skiles, Paxson or players. Chicago it The City That Works so players are getting trashed.

Either way, I love it. No more Kings trash talk when I wear my No 4 or No 21 Kings jersey. ;)
 
Superman said:
And, by the way, both have shown the ability to actually win in the NBA. Scott Skiles has not.
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Showing they HAD the ability/luck/players to actually win in the NBA is relative. They also had the ability to alienate their players, their assistant coaches, and a good percentage of their fan base.
 
Bricklayer said:
I think that's media speculation because they are the biggest names out there, but Bozzwell is actually in the Chicago area, so perhaps he has superior info.

The amusing thing is the rest of the article where I saw those names raised also mentioned Doug Collins, Jeff Van Gundy, and Mike Fratello. Look at that list -- the biggest name unemployed coaches on the market, and now add Skiles to the list, and you are basically talking about the hardass strangle the team walk the ball up egomaniacal hall of fame. Nearly every major coach of that ilk has been canned in the last couple of years, and I'm not sure which, if any, of them are coming back to coach the Bulls.

As for Skiles burnout -- that is possible too. But its all from the same cause. Constantly yell, berate, fight, whatever, gets exhausting for everybody -- players, coaches, fans. Burnout is inevitable if that's all you've got. Its difficult to go years at a stretch without ever cracking a smile.
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Point well taken. It's just that I don't think that Skiles is that angry or unreasonable. And this comes from a guy that is allergic to authority and hard-***-liners.
 
bozzwell said:
From the Bulls beat reporter's first response article. Suggestion is that they are Paxson type of coaches, not that they are just the best available.

Not much sports radio talk from fans, they are still arguing who's fault it is: Skiles, Paxson or players. Chicago it The City That Works so players are getting trashed.

Either way, I love it. No more Kings trash talk when I wear my No 4 or No 21 Kings jersey. ;)
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Thanks for the info. If this is basically just the Bulls' equivalent of Sam Amick tossing out some obvious names I'm not gonna worry too much about the poor Bulls fans having to live through either Carlisle or Brown. Not that I'd be too worried. They'd lynch Carlisle and I don't think Larry Brown could last very long in the windy city, either.
 
VF21 said:
Showing they HAD the ability/luck/players to actually win in the NBA is relative.
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I don't think that this is a fair assessment of Larry Brown; the guy has coached a variety of groups of players, under different circumstances and, with the exception of the Knicks, he has made every single team he's ever coached better... And seeing as how the Knicks have quit on Isaiah Thomas just as surely as they quit on Brown (and after boasting how much better they were with Thomas), so I don't think that's an indictment on Brown so much. As for alienating everybody, eh... six in one, and so forth...
 
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