Skal looking to make leap in year 3

#31
Willie covers pick and roll at a level very few bigs can and that is a VERY important in today's NBA. He can switch 1-5. Skal can't guard ANY position and will get absolutely smoked if he gets switched onto any competent player that plays 1-4. Willie is a much better roll man than Skal. Willie runs the floor as well as any big his size in the league. If Willie was used more like a Clint Capela his strengths would show more. Look I'm not saying Willie is this great NBA player and yes you question him between the ears but he is WAY better than Skal Labissiere right now, Skal is unplayable until he gets strong enough to play at the 5 because that is the only way it makes sense to put him on the floor.
Let's see, how do I put this delicately....

Willie sucks.

Capella destroys Willie every time they play because he's the far better player. It is not a matter of how he is used or not used. It is a matter of fundamentals, physical and mental attributes. Capella has them. Willie doesn't. Willie is good at lob dunks when Boggy or Fox serves up for him on a platter. Every once and a while he will make the spot up shot and crafty interior pass. That's about it. He's inefficient ineffective rebounder, low post player, high post player and interior defender. I do NOT see what you on the perimeter defending. He is porous and slow to slide his feet and recover.

"Skal is unplayable."

Okay I am going to add this comment to my mental JCW checklist for future reference:
  • Bagley is a complete project
  • Bagley doesn't know how to play basketball
  • Skal is unplayable
 
#32
Let's see, how do I put this delicately....

Willie sucks.

Capella destroys Willie every time they play because he's the far better player. It is not a matter of how he is used or not used. It is a matter of fundamentals, physical and mental attributes. Capella has them. Willie doesn't. Willie is good at lob dunks when Boggy or Fox serves up for him on a platter. Every once and a while he will make the spot up shot and crafty interior pass. That's about it. He's inefficient ineffective rebounder, low post player, high post player and interior defender. I do NOT see what you on the perimeter defending. He is porous and slow to slide his feet and recover.

"Skal is unplayable."

Okay I am going to add this comment to my mental JCW checklist for future reference:
  • Bagley is a complete project
  • Bagley doesn't know how to play basketball
  • Skal is unplayable
I never said he could be as good as Capela nor am I making the arguement he will be anything more than a starting caliber Center. The only reason I responded to this thread is because I am super low on Skal and someone said he is better than WCS and I just view that as categorically false. Skal has as low a basketball IQ as you will find at this level(Ben McLemore bad). Defensively he is clueless(while Willie has shown when engaged he can read pick and roll pretty well). Laterally and defending in space Skal is as bad as 37 year old ZBo(Willie is very good at switching onto guards and forward and holding his own). Offensively he is a complete black hole in the post and isn't even good(Willie at least makes his moves quick when he's in there, not that I'm saying that should be a regular thing). Skal seems very mentally fragile which I'm not a fan of at this level, in a way he reminds me of the big man version of Ben McLemore. You think he could be good and certain parts of their games look the part but they completely fall apart once the competition gets tough.
 
#33
I never said he could be as good as Capela nor am I making the arguement he will be anything more than a starting caliber Center. The only reason I responded to this thread is because I am super low on Skal and someone said he is better than WCS and I just view that as categorically false. Skal has as low a basketball IQ as you will find at this level(Ben McLemore bad). Defensively he is clueless(while Willie has shown when engaged he can read pick and roll pretty well). Laterally and defending in space Skal is as bad as 37 year old ZBo(Willie is very good at switching onto guards and forward and holding his own). Offensively he is a complete black hole in the post and isn't even good(Willie at least makes his moves quick when he's in there, not that I'm saying that should be a regular thing). Skal seems very mentally fragile which I'm not a fan of at this level, in a way he reminds me of the big man version of Ben McLemore. You think he could be good and certain parts of their games look the part but they completely fall apart once the competition gets tough.
I don’t care who is better now. Skal is 22 and hasn’t gotten the time or years to show what he’s capable of.

Willie isn’t a center IMO, can’t rebound/rim protect/play in the paint defensively

Skal’s a better investment going forward as far as I’m concerned.
 
#34
I don’t care who is better now. Skal is 22 and hasn’t gotten the time or years to show what he’s capable of.

Willie isn’t a center IMO, can’t rebound/rim protect/play in the paint defensively

Skal’s a better investment going forward as far as I’m concerned.
Yeah Willie really needs to take a big step this year to earn a second contract. At this point he hasn't shown the desire or ability to consistently do any of the things you NEED a center to do in the current NBA game. Skal's upside is well worth keeping on that late-first rookie deal.

If Willie does take that step though do the Kings pay him? Would there be any concern that he balls out in a contract year?
 
#36
Yeah Willie really needs to take a big step this year to earn a second contract. At this point he hasn't shown the desire or ability to consistently do any of the things you NEED a center to do in the current NBA game. Skal's upside is well worth keeping on that late-first rookie deal.

If Willie does take that step though do the Kings pay him? Would there be any concern that he balls out in a contract year?
Absolutely. He’s already mentioned that this is “Baggz Szn” (Money Bags Season) on his twitter account.
 
#39
The thing about Willie is that every once in a while there's a game like the next-to-last game of the season at San Antonio. The Kings, of course, were playing out the string, but the Spurs needed a win to ensure they would make the playoffs. You would have expected the Kings would get blown out, but Willie dominated LaMarcus Aldridge and the Spurs didn't get the lead until midway through the 4th. It's the occasional game like that that makes me think there may be hope for him yet. Then, after a few bad games, I want to get rid of him again.

It's the inconsistency that bothers me the most. Why can't he play well more often? I'd say if there isn't significant improvement this season, it's time to go.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#43
To be fair (and I wouldn't have been in favor at the time).....given what IT did in the 3 years after he left Sac, they probably should have.
he had one MVP like season with him handling the ball full time and I can't imagine what his usage rate was, I don't think that justifies him earning a 100+ million dollar deal, too small of a sample size imo.
 
#44
What restrictions do we have, if any, on having Skal (or any other King not on a 2-way contract) play in the G League?
I haven't given up on Skal, but I think having him play starter's minute in the G League could do wonders for his development and confidence. Also, I'm not comfortable putting him ahead of Giles or Bagley (or WCS) in the rotation right now.
I actually like the idea of giving the 96 minutes from the 4 & 5 to Giles, Bagley and WCS (with very limited min for Z-Bo and KK). But Skal needs minutes to develop, if he is going to develop. I think the best thing we can do right now is give Skal lots of G League minutes and bring him to Sac when an injury presents an opportunity for NBA minutes.
 
#46
Skal is way behind in his experience level. That is hard to overcome. He has some skills and physical ability, but mentally he is too passive to play in the NBA. I think Skal and Willie both have their greatest weaknesses in their mental game. They both need some Jon Brockman.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#47
Right now, Willie is a far better player than Skal, and anyone that can't see that doesn't want to see that. I was a huge Skal fan, but he's been a disappointment to me so far. Showing up in one out of every 5 or 6 games isn't going to cut it.. However, I'm not saying we should get rid of him. He's on a cheap contract, and he does have talent, so I'd still like to see him get a shot at making it..

Having said that, whatever minutes he gets this coming season he needs to use to buy more minutes. He's had his easy chances handed to him, now he'll have to earn them. There's still a spot for him on the team. After this year Randolph and likely Koufos will be gone. With more muscle, and added confidence, I could see Skal as our backup center behind Willie. If somehow he manages to out-preform Willie, then reverse the roles. Hell, let Giles, Bagley, Willie and Skal battle it out for minutes.

For those that see Willie as nothing but their personal whipping boy, there's nothing I can say that would influence you otherwise. I will tell you this, Willie is valued quite highly around the league, and the Kings would have no problem finding a trading partner for him. However, the Kings value him as well, and that's not about to happen. The idea that we should just dump him, is pure lunacy.
 
#48
Right now, Willie is a far better player than Skal, and anyone that can't see that doesn't want to see that. I was a huge Skal fan, but he's been a disappointment to me so far. Showing up in one out of every 5 or 6 games isn't going to cut it.. However, I'm not saying we should get rid of him. He's on a cheap contract, and he does have talent, so I'd still like to see him get a shot at making it..

Having said that, whatever minutes he gets this coming season he needs to use to buy more minutes. He's had his easy chances handed to him, now he'll have to earn them. There's still a spot for him on the team. After this year Randolph and likely Koufos will be gone. With more muscle, and added confidence, I could see Skal as our backup center behind Willie. If somehow he manages to out-preform Willie, then reverse the roles. Hell, let Giles, Bagley, Willie and Skal battle it out for minutes.

For those that see Willie as nothing but their personal whipping boy, there's nothing I can say that would influence you otherwise. I will tell you this, Willie is valued quite highly around the league, and the Kings would have no problem finding a trading partner for him. However, the Kings value him as well, and that's not about to happen. The idea that we should just dump him, is pure lunacy.
how highly valued? do you think he is worth any top 14 pick next year?

because I would be shocked if anybody on the other side of at trade came along and proved that he is valued around the league. he seems like the one guy who, when we read the Woj bomb that he's traded for a second rounder and rights to some nobody Euroballer, people will just shrug and not try to kill Vlade over it.

I sure hope I'm wrong but I just see a guy who's stats are going to demand an overpay and I want out from under.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#49
Skal is way behind in his experience level. That is hard to overcome. He has some skills and physical ability, but mentally he is too passive to play in the NBA. I think Skal and Willie both have their greatest weaknesses in their mental game. They both need some Jon Brockman.
I agree to some extent. But I think both players are quite different. Skal has the talent, and the instincts, but doesn't believe in himself enough to commit. Willie started behind the curve, and has a tendency to think to much when he should just react. If I had to choose between the two afflictions, I'd choose Willie's, because with hard work, the game becomes more instinctive, and you naturally start to react instead of think.

Skals affliction can be harder to overcome. If you don't have confidence in your own abilities your giving the edge to your opponent. There's not an easy answer to lack of confidence, other than going out and building it through experience. Some players never overcome it. Ben McLemore springs to mind. As a coach you try and put the player into good situations where he can succeed. Remember, almost all of Skal's success came against second string competition, where Willie's came against the other teams first unit.

Example: When Willie guarded players like Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge, he did a decent to good job, depending on which game you want to go back and re-watch. When Skal had a chance to guard Griffin, he got destroyed. That's not to say that Skal will never be able to defend those players, but that right now, he's not at that level. Strength and experience hopefully will build his confidence to the point where he becomes the player we all hope he can be.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#50
how highly valued? do you think he is worth any top 14 pick next year?

because I would be shocked if anybody on the other side of at trade came along and proved that he is valued around the league. he seems like the one guy who, when we read the Woj bomb that he's traded for a second rounder and rights to some nobody Euroballer, people will just shrug and not try to kill Vlade over it.

I sure hope I'm wrong but I just see a guy who's stats are going to demand an overpay and I want out from under.
Well of course any argument I would make would be an abstract argument. No way to prove it one way or the other. Even if a team valued Willie as the equal of the 14th or 15th pick in the draft, they certainly wouldn't offer that right off the bat. You always try to get what you want as cheaply as you can. So the bottom line would be, how high do the Kings value Willie. Right now, I doubt they would trade him for the 14th pick in the draft. As little appreciated as Willie might be on this forum, it would be hard to guarantee you would get any player better than him with that pick. And that would be the only reason to make that trade.

Look, I was fan of McLemore, but I reached a point where I had to swallow my optimism and realize that what you see is what you get. Ben reached a point where he didn't improve from one year to the next. That's not true of Willie. He's improved every year, and while it may not be at the speed some on this forum want, it does show he's putting in the work, and there appears to be more there to be had. As I said in an earlier post, this is an important year for Willie. It's put up or shut up time.

For those worried about it being a contract year, you can't argue on one hand that he lacks the talent to be good, and then argue on the other hand that yeah, he has the talent to be good, but only for his contract year. You can't have it both ways. He either has the talent, or he doesn't. And if he does, and then decides to get lazy and not care, which I doubt, there will be another team that saw what he can do, and would be willing to gamble that they can get him to play hard.

Personally, I don't see that happening. It's a premise based on what? He likes to paint in his spare time? Seldom will a lazy person put in the work to get better and then go back to being lazy. They don't put in the work to begin with. Donte Greene got his first big contract and never put in the work from the get go. My experience has been that if you put in the work to become good, you don't suddenly not care and throw all that work down the drain. It was too hard to get there. Trust me, its a lot more fun to be good, than it is mediocre.

I think there's a little Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde in Willie, and he's slowly learning how to let Mr. Hyde out on the court. A lot of players are that way. Cousins was an entirely different person on and off the court. It appears that Giles is the same way. You can see those moments with Willie, and you wonder where has that person been. I hope to see none other than Mr. Hyde on the court this season.
 
#51
I think there's a little Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde in Willie, and he's slowly learning how to let Mr. Hyde out on the court. A lot of players are that way. Cousins was an entirely different person on and off the court. It appears that Giles is the same way. You can see those moments with Willie, and you wonder where has that person been. I hope to see none other than Mr. Hyde on the court this season.
I think Giles on court demenor will be just the thing to bring out Willies Mr. Hyde. Looking forward to watching that KG passion rub off on his teammates
 
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#52
I agree to some extent. But I think both players are quite different. Skal has the talent, and the instincts, but doesn't believe in himself enough to commit. Willie started behind the curve, and has a tendency to think to much when he should just react. If I had to choose between the two afflictions, I'd choose Willie's, because with hard work, the game becomes more instinctive, and you naturally start to react instead of think.

Skals affliction can be harder to overcome. If you don't have confidence in your own abilities your giving the edge to your opponent. There's not an easy answer to lack of confidence, other than going out and building it through experience. Some players never overcome it. Ben McLemore springs to mind. As a coach you try and put the player into good situations where he can succeed. Remember, almost all of Skal's success came against second string competition, where Willie's came against the other teams first unit.

Example: When Willie guarded players like Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge, he did a decent to good job, depending on which game you want to go back and re-watch. When Skal had a chance to guard Griffin, he got destroyed. That's not to say that Skal will never be able to defend those players, but that right now, he's not at that level. Strength and experience hopefully will build his confidence to the point where he becomes the player we all hope he can be.
What happened to there's no way of knowing what's between a player's ears or in their minds?
 
#54
It is a matter of time before Bagley and Giles take over. KK will do what he does and be very dependable.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it. with thanks to Charles Barkely.
 
#56
What restrictions do we have, if any, on having Skal (or any other King not on a 2-way contract) play in the G League?
I haven't given up on Skal, but I think having him play starter's minute in the G League could do wonders for his development and confidence. Also, I'm not comfortable putting him ahead of Giles or Bagley (or WCS) in the rotation right now.
I actually like the idea of giving the 96 minutes from the 4 & 5 to Giles, Bagley and WCS (with very limited min for Z-Bo and KK). But Skal needs minutes to develop, if he is going to develop. I think the best thing we can do right now is give Skal lots of G League minutes and bring him to Sac when an injury presents an opportunity for NBA minutes.
I guess I’ll have to answer my own question since no one here knew the answer (or was willing to share the info). According to gleague.nba.com, a player with an NBA contract (who hasn’t been waived etc) can be assigned to the team’s g league team if they have not yet played three or more seasons.
So this is perfect for Skal, IMO. Even if he has a great training camp/preseason, I still think he would benefit most from lots of g league minutes to build his confidence and develop his game. And when the Sac Kings need depth, Skal slides in.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#57
Right now, Willie is a far better player than Skal, and anyone that can't see that doesn't want to see that. I was a huge Skal fan, but he's been a disappointment to me so far. Showing up in one out of every 5 or 6 games isn't going to cut it.. However, I'm not saying we should get rid of him. He's on a cheap contract, and he does have talent, so I'd still like to see him get a shot at making it..

Having said that, whatever minutes he gets this coming season he needs to use to buy more minutes. He's had his easy chances handed to him, now he'll have to earn them. There's still a spot for him on the team. After this year Randolph and likely Koufos will be gone. With more muscle, and added confidence, I could see Skal as our backup center behind Willie. If somehow he manages to out-preform Willie, then reverse the roles. Hell, let Giles, Bagley, Willie and Skal battle it out for minutes.

For those that see Willie as nothing but their personal whipping boy, there's nothing I can say that would influence you otherwise. I will tell you this, Willie is valued quite highly around the league, and the Kings would have no problem finding a trading partner for him. However, the Kings value him as well, and that's not about to happen. The idea that we should just dump him, is pure lunacy.
This is why I checked "Like" on your post!:)