Skal Labissiere revisited

#31
Genuine question!

Is Skal better than Chriss? Can't help but feel that he actually might be.
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#33
I like Chriss' potential a lot but I'm not upset about the trade. I had Skal ranked just a couple spots lower and we picked up Bogdanovic and Papagiannis in the deal too. Even if Chriss reaches his potential, if we got three solid rotation guys out of it I think it was a solid decision. If Bogdanovic stays overseas and Bam Bam never cracks the rotation than it starts to look a lot worse but I'm happy betting on Skal's potential. He's not a high flyer like Chriss but he's a lot more explosive than his skinny frame suggests and its hard to oversell the value of a bigman with an unblockable jumper and an instinct for blocking shots on the other end.
 
#34
I like Chriss' potential a lot but I'm not upset about the trade. I had Skal ranked just a couple spots lower and we picked up Bogdanovic and Papagiannis in the deal too. Even if Chriss reaches his potential, if we got three solid rotation guys out of it I think it was a solid decision. If Bogdanovic stays overseas and Bam Bam never cracks the rotation than it starts to look a lot worse but I'm happy betting on Skal's potential. He's not a high flyer like Chriss but he's a lot more explosive than his skinny frame suggests and its hard to oversell the value of a bigman with an unblockable jumper and an instinct for blocking shots on the other end.
Do you guys remember Amare Stoudemire? Skal and Amare had identical athletic measurements at the same age... 32 inch standing 36.5 running. Chris for comparison's sake has a 32 inch standing and 38 inch running vert. (Skal is 2 inches longer) You guys are seriously underestimating the athletic gifts of Skal. He nearly hit his head on the rim blocking that shot last night. I mean how much more do you need?
 
#35
A lot of people seem to like to attack the things this franchise has going for it (Skal/Buddy most of all)). Do these folks want to believe we have no players on this roster?

Skals body is fine. He's a 7 footer who has gained notably since camp
 
#36
Skal is legit. The guy just has the "it" factor. It may be true that Chriss is legit and also has the "it" factor. Time will tell, but I think both sides will be satisfied with the end results, and I'm ok with that.

My question is why was he not getting more PT alongside DMC? That's the frustrating part. If he was allegedly one of the 'top practice players' all year.
 
#37
Was that Kobe or Skal on that fadeaway jumper? That was ridiculous. He must be shooting 80% from mid range at the moment.

I think Skal didn't get playing time next to Cousins because he was much riskier than Kofous or Tolliver. They were right on the cusp of the playoffs so experimenting wasn't really in the cards since it looks like the final playoff spot is going to come down to a game or two.
 
#38
He has plenty of talent. His limitation besides lack of experience is lack of strength. He gets pushed around and needs to get in the weight room, especially for the lower body.
 
#39
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
Chriss has been horrible this year. There are like 5-6 guys who have been better this season from this class. Brogdan, Hield, Murray, Hernangomez, Jaylen Brown. Just because Chriss has gotten minutes doesn't mean he's been good
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#40
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
No
 
#41
Chriss has been horrible this year. There are like 5-6 guys who have been better this season from this class. Brogdan, Hield, Murray, Hernangomez, Jaylen Brown. Just because Chriss has gotten minutes doesn't mean he's been good
ok...no offense, but are you serious? Hield has been terrible for NO this year. Hield has been average at best with the Kings. Murray has sucked...I like Juan as much as the next guy, but to call him a better rookie than Chriss is insulting. I don't think Jaylen Brown has been better than Chriss.

I really don't know what you have against Chriss, because he's seriously the best looking rookie right now. I guess you could put Brogdon over him, but Brogodn is 24, and Chriss is 19. 5 years older than him.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXp0_XKsbqI

Yeah, I'd like to see where any of those guys have done what Chriss has. Really not sure what you have against him to call him "horrible". And Chriss only started receiving big minutes as of late.
 
#42
I watched Chriss play at the UW. He has advanced skills, but is really young and only played one year in college. He is athletically gifted, but so is Skal. Both players are going to be really good but it takes years not months for them to get a level where they can really compete in the NBA.
 
#43
I watched Chriss play at the UW. He has advanced skills, but is really young and only played one year in college. He is athletically gifted, but so is Skal. Both players are going to be really good but it takes years not months for them to get a level where they can really compete in the NBA.
 
#44
Chris is a promising prospect. Local kid too so i am rooting for him. But to say he is better then Skal at this point is premature to say the least. In my humble opinion Skal is the better player at this time merely because he already has a go to move. That fade away over both shoulders and he is shooting it at like an 80% rate? That shot can't be guarded and he is already showing he can make it at a good rate. Chris could be better in the future or Skal can continue to develop and separate himself further. He was a consensus top 2 pick just 2 years ago...
 
#48
I get the Chriss comparison since that's who we traded away essentially to get Skal, but you have to consider Papagiannis and Bogdanovic in that as well. I think Chriss and Skal are comparable right now so if we get anything from the other 2 that trade is a win.

If what we are seeing from Skal's jumper is legit I think he can be a very good scorer in the NBA and has solid defensive potential. He's got pretty high end potential in my opinion which has me pretty excited for the future. I get impatient with how Coach Joerger is slow-playing his development but it seems to be working so I'm on board right now.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#49
The main difference seems to be, that Skal hasn't the speed or the handle to play SF. So Durant is most likely the wrong guy to look at. But still I don't understand why people are so focused on his body weight or his perchieved lack of strength.
His game isn't really built around drawing contact or using strength. It's more or less centered around getting enough seperation to shoot over people. Why should we force him to change that?
Defense and rebounding could be a concern, but let's be honest - which teams will make it their main point of attack to overpower him inside, meaning forcing him to guard 1vs1 in the post in the era of zone and switch it all defense?
Well if I would coach the Kings, I would count myself a happy guy, if a team like GS says "screw that Green+Curry pick&roll we ran again and again, let's post up Green versus this skinny dude and play from there"...
I don't think this is likely to happen. So it all comes down to a few possessions, where he will give up a putback, because his opponent overpowers him and the ref's don't blow their whistle.
Honestly strength and weight is the last thing I would worry about, if I would coach Skal Labissiere (as every professional athlete he will have his nutritionist and follow a conditioning plan, so these things will gradually improve over his career anyways). Developing him to a point, where he can play a pick&roll or pick&pop in his sleep on both ends is the thing, that will make or break his NBA career.
He is a 6'10 kid with a jumpshot and great hops - the potential in the pick&roll is limitless once he develops 3point range and improves his handle to a point, where he can safely put the ball onto the floor once or twice to get to the basket under control.
Sehr gut! Let him develop the game he has and you will note his skinny little body is not much of a handicap. It may even contribute to some of his turn about moves. He doesn't have Boogie's game. He doesn't crash into groups of people. In fact, and I have been paying a little attention, when he enters the painted area, he is alone. It is silly to say but is the truth; he is a skinny and skilled athlete who has had that body all his life and seems to know what to do with it. I may be hyperbolic (what's new, Glenn) but he seems to know what to do and I will back up the comment 98% that he should work with what he has and not change his game just because he is tall. He can be stronger with a little weight work but he is not going to become the incredible hulk. Imagine if someone thought Durant should be a pf.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#50
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
I will pay attention to Chriss if I get the opportunity. He must be damn good but then every once in awhile Skal makes me giddy with pleasure. :) The trade got us Skal, Richardson, and Big Papa. It is difficult to judge the merits of the trade today. Wait a few years.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#51
Do you guys remember Amare Stoudemire? Skal and Amare had identical athletic measurements at the same age... 32 inch standing 36.5 running. Chris for comparison's sake has a 32 inch standing and 38 inch running vert. (Skal is 2 inches longer) You guys are seriously underestimating the athletic gifts of Skal. He nearly hit his head on the rim blocking that shot last night. I mean how much more do you need?
He skipped the athletic testing at the combine so I didn't know what his vertical leap measurements were. Appearances can be deceiving though. I remember everyone saying James Harden wasn't very explosive and then he posted a 37" max vertical. Some guys can jump out of the gym in drills and then you never see it in a game. It's usually how quick you can get off the ground that matters more in a game context and whether you need to set yourself first and use both feet for lift. I think with Chriss the athleticism is seen more in games -- he's often on the wrong side of wreckless in fact -- whereas Skal is more deliberate in his movements. He obviously has the athleticism when he needs it though and that's particularly apparent on the boards.

Both guys are great athletes (Skal and Chriss) so you're right that's it's not really worth quibbling about. What has me really excited about Skal is that he's so fluid with the ball -- that is to say he doesn't look like a typical big man. Whether he backs down or faces up, he's moving more like a wing than a 7 footer. You don't see him thinking moves out in advance. And with that jumper... usually you see 7 footers sling the ball at the basket and he's actually got a jumpshot worthy of the name. He was unfairly overlooked by a lot of teams in the draft because he's not built like a tank and his skillset doesn't fall easily into a simple role. But the potential there is staggering if he can add enough strength to hold his position without sacrificing any of that fluidity. If he played in New York instead of Sacramento right now and got 30 minutes per game we might be hearing rumblings of Porzingis hype about him. I don't think he needs to try to be anyone else though, he's got his own unique thing going on and I'm excited about watching him develop it further.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#52
If anything, Skal might turn into a Marc Gasol type high post skilled player in the mold of when Joeger coached Memphis..
 
#53
ok...no offense, but are you serious? Hield has been terrible for NO this year. Hield has been average at best with the Kings. Murray has sucked...I like Juan as much as the next guy, but to call him a better rookie than Chriss is insulting. I don't think Jaylen Brown has been better than Chriss.

I really don't know what you have against Chriss, because he's seriously the best looking rookie right now. I guess you could put Brogdon over him, but Brogodn is 24, and Chriss is 19. 5 years older than him.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXp0_XKsbqI

Yeah, I'd like to see where any of those guys have done what Chriss has. Really not sure what you have against him to call him "horrible". And Chriss only started receiving big minutes as of late.
I like Chriss a lot, but you're definitely jumping the gun here. He has shown flashes here and there, but he is still too raw to evaluate. He's had some nice games and is solid defensivly, but his shooting %'s are low across the board. He's also an underwhelming rebounder right now.

He's also not the best rookie. Embiid was before he went down and now it is Dario Saric by a mile. Peep his game log. Last 10 games he's averaging about 20/10/3.

To me Skal and Chriss are about equal. Skal has only received playing time as of late and is already showing he can hit the turn around fade way and the left handed hook in the paint. It takes some players years to be able to do those moves consistency.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#54
Skal is a pretty good defender, gets a little lost sometimes but provides some shotblocking and rebounding/weakside help. Reminds me alot of a taller albeit less bulkier Jermaine O Neal/Bosh.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#55
Chriss has been horrible this year. There are like 5-6 guys who have been better this season from this class. Brogdan, Hield, Murray, Hernangomez, Jaylen Brown. Just because Chriss has gotten minutes doesn't mean he's been good
Yeah, your spot on. Chriss has had some good moments, but in general, he's looked like a fish out of water way too often for me to tout him as the being a success. Skal, in his limited minutes has looked far better than Chriss in general. There are times when Chriss appears totally lost on defense and on offense. Of course there are times when the entire Sun's team looks lost. I wasn't that high on Chriss prior to the draft, and if anything, he's been a disappointment. The one area where Skal stands out over Chriss is BBIQ. Skal has a much better feel for the game.

With all that, I'm not saying I dislike Chriss. Just, that at the moment, based on what I've seen so far, I'd choose Skal over Chriss. It's a very small body of work to go on with Skal, but he has shown signs of being star material. I just don't see that in Chriss. Now in fairness to Chriss, Skal hasn't had to guard Cousins. OK. Chriss couldn't guard Cousins, but then not many can.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#56
Skal is a pretty good defender, gets a little lost sometimes but provides some shotblocking and rebounding/weakside help. Reminds me alot of a taller albeit less bulkier Jermaine O Neal/Bosh.
Yeah, I was talking to my son yesterday and I said that Skal reminded me a little bit of LaMarcus Aldridge, and a little bit of Chris Bosh. And please folks, I'm not saying that Skal will be that good, it's just that his offensive game is similar. Lets see what happens when Skal gets the attention of opposing teams, and they start setting up their defense to make life more difficult for him. That's where Willie is right now, figuring out how to adjust since teams are trying to take away the P&R from him.

It's all a learning experience folks... And, it takes time.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#57
He skipped the athletic testing at the combine so I didn't know what his vertical leap measurements were. Appearances can be deceiving though. I remember everyone saying James Harden wasn't very explosive and then he posted a 37" max vertical. Some guys can jump out of the gym in drills and then you never see it in a game. It's usually how quick you can get off the ground that matters more in a game context and whether you need to set yourself first and use both feet for lift. I think with Chriss the athleticism is seen more in games -- he's often on the wrong side of wreckless in fact -- whereas Skal is more deliberate in his movements. He obviously has the athleticism when he needs it though and that's particularly apparent on the boards.

Both guys are great athletes (Skal and Chriss) so you're right that's it's not really worth quibbling about. What has me really excited about Skal is that he's so fluid with the ball -- that is to say he doesn't look like a typical big man. Whether he backs down or faces up, he's moving more like a wing than a 7 footer. You don't see him thinking moves out in advance. And with that jumper... usually you see 7 footers sling the ball at the basket and he's actually got a jumpshot worthy of the name. He was unfairly overlooked by a lot of teams in the draft because he's not built like a tank and his skillset doesn't fall easily into a simple role. But the potential there is staggering if he can add enough strength to hold his position without sacrificing any of that fluidity. If he played in New York instead of Sacramento right now and got 30 minutes per game we might be hearing rumblings of Porzingis hype about him. I don't think he needs to try to be anyone else though, he's got his own unique thing going on and I'm excited about watching him develop it further.
I had some huge arguments with people on this forum about both Harden and Blake Griffin. For some reason some people thought Harden wasn't that athletic, and I thought man, have you actually watched the dude play. Same with Griffin, who in college would usually play at a medium speed, but if you saw him play enough, you'd see he could explode to the basket if he needed to. Same with Harden. Some players wear their athleticism on their sleeve, and some others, like Harden and Griffin hit the gas only when necessary.

While we don't have Skal's max vertical from the combine, Kentucky holds a pro day every year where they run all the Kentucky players through the same drills they run at the combine, and Skal posted 35 inch vertical. He also posted a 9% body fat at Kentucky's Pro day, but at the combine he reduced to 5% body fat. So take that for what its worth. I think we all know there's nothing wrong with Skal's jumping ability. He's very quick off his feet.

And my vote for ROY right now would be Saric first and Brogdan second. So were in agreement on that one.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#58
Sehr gut! Let him develop the game he has and you will note his skinny little body is not much of a handicap. It may even contribute to some of his turn about moves. He doesn't have Boogie's game. He doesn't crash into groups of people. In fact, and I have been paying a little attention, when he enters the painted area, he is alone. It is silly to say but is the truth; he is a skinny and skilled athlete who has had that body all his life and seems to know what to do with it. I may be hyperbolic (what's new, Glenn) but he seems to know what to do and I will back up the comment 98% that he should work with what he has and not change his game just because he is tall. He can be stronger with a little weight work but he is not going to become the incredible hulk. Imagine if someone thought Durant should be a pf.
Yeah, the last thing I worry about is strength. I'm sure Skal has regular workouts with the Kings strength and conditioning coach. And, with normal progression will get stronger has he matures. Obviously Skal doesn't have the frame to pile muscle on, but he can probably carry another 10 to 15 pounds of muscle as he gets older without hampering his game. Right now, he has a fairly advanced game for a 6'11" rookie. If you were to compare him to our own 6'11" Jason Thompson, who was a senior coming to the Kings, he can do things that Thompson couldn't do at that time.
 
#59
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
Skal is already the much better defender. Chriss has a LONG LONG LONG way to go on that end. He's probably the most "handsy" player in the NBA and he's struggled with basically every player who's gone up against him. None of his athletic gifts have helped him in any manner on that end.

Skal on the other hand is making bench bigs look like chumps. 22% USG, 60% TS, 19% TRB, 31% FTR. That's all-star level production quite frankly.

Now there's definetly small sample size problems with Skal and there's a big difference in evaluating 1200 minutes vs 150 minutes for a rookie, but Skal looks far more polished in his limited time than Chriss has. Chriss has the higher upside because of his athletic gifts, but he's so far behind on actually knowing how to play the game.
 
#60
Yeah, your spot on. Chriss has had some good moments, but in general, he's looked like a fish out of water way too often for me to tout him as the being a success. Skal, in his limited minutes has looked far better than Chriss in general. There are times when Chriss appears totally lost on defense and on offense. Of course there are times when the entire Sun's team looks lost. I wasn't that high on Chriss prior to the draft, and if anything, he's been a disappointment. The one area where Skal stands out over Chriss is BBIQ. Skal has a much better feel for the game.

With all that, I'm not saying I dislike Chriss. Just, that at the moment, based on what I've seen so far, I'd choose Skal over Chriss. It's a very small body of work to go on with Skal, but he has shown signs of being star material. I just don't see that in Chriss. Now in fairness to Chriss, Skal hasn't had to guard Cousins. OK. Chriss couldn't guard Cousins, but then not many can.
Yeah, this is what I hope we get to see more of at the end of the season. Him getting exposure to guarding starting bigs and some of the better offensive players in the game. It's easy to bag on Chriss's lack of defense, but we also haven't seen Skal have to guard the same caliber of players that he has.