SI.com - Mixed results: Rewards of deadline deals take time to develop

Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#1
#1
This season's trade deadline falls on Feb. 23, and while we've already seen one blockbuster (the deal that sent Ron Artest to Sacramento for Peja Stojakovic), a whole series of big moves are rumored to be in the offing. With that in mind, I decided to take a look back at the biggest deadline deals of the post-MJ (we're still trying to forget that Wizards stint) era; and see if the moves made any difference.

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The deal: Chris Webber and change is sent from Sacramento to Philly for Corliss Williamson, Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner.


The fallout: Webber's stats have sustained in Philly, but he's none too happy playing alongside Allen Iverson, and the 76ers (owners of the league's third-highest payroll) are clinging to the final playoff slot in the East. The Kings have suffered as well, and though they didn't receive much immediate salary relief, the bigs they received are hard-workers whose contracts are easily movable.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/02/14/trade.fallout/1.html
 
captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#4
#4
Diabeticwonder said:
Much easier to move than Webb's was.
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Based on what? You don't know how many GMs around the league were willing to take on Webber, contract and all. He was still playing great last year, and sustaining a team that proved to be otherwise pretty aweful. The fact is, the Kings moved the contract when they wanted to, and there were probably more than a few teams who would've been happy to send over some expiring contracts for him. These 3 guys, however, are not easily moveable, as they all have long and ugly contracts (relatively), and possess mountains less talent to speak of. Petrie obviously thought he got something good in those 3, otherwise we would have gotten expiring contracts, insted. And I am positive that if he started placing calls around teh league looking for ending contracts for Webber, someone would bite. Not true with say, Kenny Thomas.
 
Arco Arena

Arco Arena

Bench
#5
#5
Diabeticwonder said:
Much easier to move than Webb's was.
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true, webbers contract is a monster that most teams wouldn't want to take,

but i dont know if we want to get into this argument about the webber trade again... =/
 
kingkung

kingkung

Bench
#6
#6
Arco Arena said:
true, webbers contract is a monster that most teams wouldn't want to take,

but i dont know if we want to get into this argument about the webber trade again... =/
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Webber got traded?!?! For who?!?! When did this happen?!?!












Bush got re-elected?!?!?! Are you serious?!?!
 
KP

KP

Starter
#7
#7
One thing I will say is we were 12 games over .500 last year at this time with no Vlade, no Doug, and Bobby on the IL. Artest has had a positive effect so far(5-4 & finally winning at home) but are we as good as that team that was 12 games over .500 and in the hunt for home court on Feb 23rd last year? ... you tell me.
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#8
#8
I actually thought this might have some NEW information. I was somewhat sadly disappointed to see some writers are still on the "more flexible" bandwagon...

Hello? It's been a YEAR since that trade. If those easy-to-move contracts were, in fact, so easy to move they would have been...moved, that is.

I still want to know about the hordes of phone calls Petrie has received from other GMs demanding Corliss, Skinner or Kenny T. in a trade.

;)
 
FullAB

FullAB

G-League
#9
#9
Don't you guys remember? Webber was a cancer in the lockeroom......or at least according to our flagship station's flagship loudmouth......:rolleyes:
 
KP

KP

Starter
#10
#10
Look things are looking postive right now, and I am finally enjoying watching this team again, but I just don't want people to forget where we were at before all this reshuffling occured, it seems to me that some of the people that were unhappy with a team that was maybe not elite but one of the best in the West, are much quicker to praise a team that isn't even as good as they were in the first place.
 
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captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#11
#11
KP said:
Look things are looking postive right now, and I am finally enjoying watching this team again, but I just don't want people to forget where we were at before all this reshuffling occured, it seems to me that some of the people that were unhappy with a team that was maybe not elite but one of the best in the West, are much quicker to praise a team that isn't even as good as they were in the first place.
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Replace the Philly 3 with Webber, SAR with a backup center from FA, and still go through with Peja for Artest, and Bobby for Bonzi. That deep, while maybe lacking some depth, is still much better than our current one, IMO. Who knows, maybe we still sign SAR to backup Webb in the offseason, but I doubt it. Besides, our bench is just Cisco and Kevin now anyway.
Bibby-Bonzi-Artest-Webber-Miller. Bench:Cisco, Kevin, Hart, FAs. (Tag? maybe we pick up his second year w/o Skinner)
Bibby-Bonzi-Artest-SAR-Miller. Thomas, Cisco, Kevin, Hart, Skinner

Really, that added depth doesn't mean much. Webber/Artest is far better than Artest/SAR/Thomas.

Yeah, it's all in the past and meaningless, but we don't control the future of this team in any significant way either, so we might as well not talk about that.
 
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A

AriesMar27

Guest
#12
#12
though this is old news, nothing good came from the webber trade..... nothing.... we still could have traded for bonzi and artest and probably would have kept house... our bench would be unbelievably deep with darius, barnes, martin, garcia, some fa center and house..... and maybe even evans, though we wouldnt need him with martin garcia and barnes on the team....

that trade was horrible....
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#13
#13
You can hypothesize all you want, but I guarantee you Bonzi and Artest wouldn't have been on the Kings had Webber still been here. With Webber gone, Petrie and the Maloofs saw the mistakes they made and became desperate. These are two guys (Artest/Wells) not many people here were very fond of, can you really say these were players you salivated over when Webber was here?
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#15
#15
thesanityannex said:
You can hypothesize all you want, but I guarantee you Bonzi and Artest wouldn't have been on the Kings had Webber still been here. With Webber gone, Petrie and the Maloofs saw the mistakes they made and became desperate. These are two guys (Artest/Wells) not many people here were very fond of, can you really say these were players you salivated over when Webber was here?
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I have always liked the play of Bonzi and Artest....not to mention my love of Webbers play.

Bonzi at SG
Artest at SF
Webber at PF

Heck yes, that is something to salivate over. Add Bibby and Miller and I like our chances with that team (especially if everyone was healthy).
 
M

MrBiggs

Guest
#16
#16
Diabeticwonder said:
Much easier to move than Webb's was.
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How did you come up with that? We moved Webb and haven't been able to move any of the Philly 3. That's all the evidence I need.
 
D

DeAtHrOw

Guest
#17
#17
MrBiggs said:
How did you come up with that? We moved Webb and haven't been able to move any of the Philly 3. That's all the evidence I need.
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What makes you think Petrie has tried moving them?
 
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thesanityannex

Guest
#20
#20
6th said:
I have always liked the play of Bonzi and Artest....not to mention my love of Webbers play.

Bonzi at SG
Artest at SF
Webber at PF

Heck yes, that is something to salivate over. Add Bibby and Miller and I like our chances with that team (especially if everyone was healthy).
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I think you missed my point. There was complaining by many here about the attitudes of Bonzi/Artest. Not there skills. Imagine if it were rumored they were coming here when Webber was still here and the Kings still had their classic chemistry. It seems like a good fit now, because we've seen that Bonzi/Artest have behaved for the time being. Of course it would be and amazing lineup, but it was not likely to happen with Webber still here, because when he left, it was time for desperate measures. Just my thoughts.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#21
#21
thesanityannex said:
I think you missed my point. There was complaining by many here about the attitudes of Bonzi/Artest. Not there skills. Imagine if it were rumored they were coming here when Webber was still here and the Kings still had their classic chemistry. It seems like a good fit now, because we've seen that Bonzi/Artest have behaved for the time being. Of course it would be and amazing lineup, but it was not likely to happen with Webber still here, because when he left, it was time for desperate measures. Just my thoughts.
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it's tough to say, really. keeping webber meant retaining the old "core." trading webber meant tearing it all down. but both these deals (wells/artest) would still have been present had webber not been traded. wells still would have been disliked by his coach in memphis, and artest sti, in all likelihood, would have requested a trade from indiana. i can easily see the kings pulling the b-jax for wells trade with webber still here. the artest move is less clear, cuz maybe peja continues to thrive off of webber's passing. but if there was any perceived tension between chris and peja, and with webb's contract being so difficult to move, i could see petrie pulling the trigger on the peja for artest trade as well.

of course, this is all speculation, but it seems like it could have been likely. i don't particularly care anymore. i've spent more time arguing against the webber trade than i care to admit. what's done is done. i see some real potential in the team we have. we're only one or two pieces away from contender status again. this is coming from the guy who said it couldn't be done in one or two moves. ron artest makes that much of a difference. i'm excited to see where things go from here...
 
M

MrBiggs

Guest
#24
#24
DeAtHrOw said:
Hvae you heard a SINGLE rumour involving any of the three?
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How about the Kenny Thomas/Desmond Mason rumor?

Besides that though, when do you ever hear rumors of Petrie's trades or moves? The only reason why we heard the Peja/Artest rumors is because the deal has made sense the last two or three seasons. The media discussed a potential trade before Walsh/Bird and Petrie ever started talking about it.
 
M

MrBiggs

Guest
#27
#27
DeAtHrOw said:


On the other hand no I did not hear about that rumour.
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Then you don't listen to much KHTK do you? What about my other question? How often do you EVER hear rumors of Petrie's trade discussions? I'll answer since you obviously want to ignore most of a post and focus on the fact that you probably only believe rumors are legit when you read them on the internet: Very rarely.

Let's take a look at the last big moves that Petrie has done.

1. Ron Artest for Peja - Sure. We all heard these rumors. The exception on the rule.

2. Bobby Jackson for Bonzi - Didn't hear about it until the day it was done.

3. Webb for Skinner/Thomas/Williamson - Didn't hear about it until the night it was done.

4. Christie for Mobley - Nope, didn't hear about this one until it was complete.

The fact of the matter is Petrie stated himself that his intentions in the trade was to acquire 3 moveable peices so if he's not trying to prove right on his original intentions, the trade will always be looked at as a bad one.

And about the crack of beating a dead horse, you responded to my post first. I could easily accuse you of beating the horse but I have more pride in my debate than that.
 
B

bigbadred00

Starter
#28
#28
Kings113 said:
Also how Petrie tried to get Lorenzen Wright with Bonzi for B-Jax/Corliss. Grizz said "nay", hence we just got Bonzi.
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Lorenzen is awful this year. It's almost a joke around town (Memphis Resident). He is sulking. Last year he had a career year. This year....a career crappy year ^^. I'm pretty sure he's pulling a VC like on purpose demise. The Grizzles could really use his quality services if they were available.
 
D

DeAtHrOw

Guest
#29
#29
MrBiggs said:
Then you don't listen to much KHTK do you? What about my other question? How often do you EVER hear rumors of Petrie's trade discussions? I'll answer since you obviously want to ignore most of a post and focus on the fact that you probably only believe rumors are legit when you read them on the internet: Very rarely.

Let's take a look at the last big moves that Petrie has done.

1. Ron Artest for Peja - Sure. We all heard these rumors. The exception on the rule.

2. Bobby Jackson for Bonzi - Didn't hear about it until the day it was done.

3. Webb for Skinner/Thomas/Williamson - Didn't hear about it until the night it was done.

4. Christie for Mobley - Nope, didn't hear about this one until it was complete.

The fact of the matter is Petrie stated himself that his intentions in the trade was to acquire 3 moveable peices so if he's not trying to prove right on his original intentions, the trade will always be looked at as a bad one.

And about the crack of beating a dead horse, you responded to my post first. I could easily accuse you of beating the horse but I have more pride in my debate than that.
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DOn't take it personally. "Beating the dead horse" was intended for both of us not just you. And since I live in Toronto no I do not listen to KHTK.
 
CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#30
#30
VF21 said:
I actually thought this might have some NEW information. I was somewhat sadly disappointed to see some writers are still on the "more flexible" bandwagon...

Hello? It's been a YEAR since that trade. If those easy-to-move contracts were, in fact, so easy to move they would have been...moved, that is.
;)
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I guess the view is that it's easier to move one of three $6.5m contracts than to move one $20m that is partially damaged goods.

I think Petrie is satisified with KT and Skinner and Corliss is the ultimate good guy no matter the circumstance and is great in locker room (so I guess and from what little I hear). KT continues to get 14/10 most nights (and will hopefully cut down dum TO's) and is a keeper now with Artest. Skinner is a much better defender than Miller but not much scoring. Corliss is used where the matchups make sense and is a really good presence on the bench.

So don't think Petrie is trying to move any of those tho' Corliss can fit in several other places better than here, where they need a low post banger and 8-10 pts a night. What do we really need other than time to play together?

With SAR, Cisco, Skinner and Price off the bench, they are doing quite well, most of the time. They all need some consistency

But when Geoff is ready to deal, having 3 pieces at $6.5m or so will be much easier than one partially damaged $20m.
 
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