SI article on Artest and Pacers breakup

#1
There is some new details in this article. Interesting


http://premium.si.cnn.com/pr/subs2/s...206/index.html

A Season Over The Brink


Look what Ronnie has wrought. The Pacers finally rid themselves of talented but troubled Ron Artest, who made his debut with the Kings last week. But back in Indiana, a team that was once talking title is now facing an overhaul


By Jack McCallum

Until last Thursday afternoon the name Artest was still on a chalkboard in Rick Carlisle's locker room office. "Hmm, guess I haven't changed that starting lineup in a while," said the Indiana Pacers' coach, picking up an eraser. When told that he might want to wipe off o'neal too -- All-Star power forward Jermaine O'Neal will miss at least two months, and perhaps the rest of the regular season, with a torn left groin muscle -- Carlisle considered it. "No," he said finally, "I think I'll leave him on."

Who could blame Carlisle for pretending that his best player was still available? Over the last four months Carlisle has presided over an underachieving and flawed team (21-21 at week's end) held hostage by Ron Artest, a troubled and often troubling soul who was traded to Sacramento on Jan. 25. "The Tru Warier meets the Kings," the 6'7", 246-pound Artest said in a TV interview last week, hyping himself and his record label. Ah, just what they need at sign-happy Arco Arena: a new slogan.

The Pacers' post-Warier era officially began last Friday with a 93-89 loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers at Conseco Fieldhouse, their fifth straight defeat and 13th in their last 19 games. Still, there were positive signs. Indiana was missing not only O'Neal but also point guard Jamaal Tinsley (sore right elbow) and demon rebounder Jeff Foster (back spasms). Plus, sharpshooting forward Peja Stojakovic, obtained from Sacramento for Artest, was unavailable, having arrived in town only hours before the game. Yet Indy played hard and stayed in the game until the end, getting solid performances from rookie forward Danny Granger (21 points, 14 rebounds) and young gun Fred Jones (20 points). "We fought together," said guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, "and that showed we can be a good basketball team."

After months -- nay, years -- of being Ar-tested by one of the strangest personalities on the sports landscape, the Pacers could not be blamed for looking at the bright side. In fact, both teams put a happy face on the swap -- It's a deal that helps both teams! -- but no one can say with certainty if any lasting good will come out of it. It's likely that Artest will eventually lock horns with shoot-first point guard Mike Bibby. And though the 6'10" Stojakovic's size and touch have led to comparisons with Pacers president Larry Bird, Stojakovic's model as a player, Peja lacks Bird's toughness, post-up moves, rebounding skills, playmaker aptitude and get-in-the-passing-lane defensive instincts. He is Larry Ultra Lite.

Larry Legend, who still stops traffic when he goes on international scouting missions, is a central figure in the Artest saga. Bird wanted to swap Artest for Stojakovic after the 2003-04 season -- the deal was nixed by Pacers owners Melvin and Herbert Simon -- yet he is also the member of the organization most closely aligned with Artest, so much so that the Artest Era seems destined to go down as Larry's Folly. If the old, tough-minded Celtic immortal likes him, the thinking went around Pacer Land, everyone had to like him.

But Bird wasn't the only one seduced by Artest. The Simons liked Artest the people's favorite, a man whose strong rapport and gentleness with fans masked the turmoil within. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh liked Artest the talent, a player whose on-court repertoire includes three-point range, a post-up game and demon defense. (He was the league's Defensive Player of the Year in '03-04.) Bird liked Artest the gym rat, the human sweatbox who would practice nonstop for two hours in the off-season. "Then Ronnie might get on a plane and go play a couple of pickup games in Chicago," says Bird. "I wish I had a guy like that to work out with when I was playing."

Fact is, all the Pacers' execs liked Artest so much they were sounding like the Four Seasons: "Ronnie. Ronnie. Ronnie, I am regretting but can't stop forgetting because ... you were my first love."

Certainly Ronnie-love was in the Hoosier air this past summer. Artest, as is his wont, worked out dutifully, and Bird, among others, became convinced that he would come back physically fit (understandable) and mentally stable. (Huh?) The last glimpse of Artest in the 2004-05 season for many Pacers came after Detroit eliminated them in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference semis, when Artest drove a black Escalade wildly onto the Conseco loading dock in full view of the Pistons' team bus, then jumped out of the SUV, ripped off his shirt and walked into the arena. By some accounts he was heading into Conseco to play a late-night shooting game with teammate Jonathan Bender. It was a classic moment from the Theater of Artest -- strangely endearing, seriously loony.

Still, says Bird, "with all that happened last season [a reference to Artest's 73-game suspension for igniting one of the ugliest brawls in sports history at The Palace of Auburn Hills], we really felt that this year would be, maybe not perfect, but all right." O'Neal and Stephen Jackson even joined Artest for an off-season tête-à-tête with Walsh and Bird, during which the players argued for keeping the core together, proving that Artest's seductive powers extended even to those teammates he had let down so often.

But everything went haywire a month into this season, either because Artest believed that the Pacers were trying to trade him (Walsh and Bird say No, no, a thousand times no!) or because, well, because he's Artest.

Two Pacers told SI that Artest regularly started physical altercations during practice. The skirmishes "weren't boxing matches," says one of the players, but they didn't do much for team unity. If Artest believed that he was being treated unfairly in practice by Carlisle or one of his teammates, he refused to run through a play. Or hours before a game he would announce in the locker room that he wasn't going to play that evening, only to change his mind soon thereafter.

At least twice this season, he was outside the locker room, in street clothes, talking on a cellphone 20 minutes before tip-off. He came to believe that everything he did wrong in Indianapolis was magnified, which was true, but he ignored the fact that the hometown fans had cut him enormous slack despite his 87 games' worth of suspensions over 41Ú2 seasons as a Pacer. Among his teammates he was closest to Jackson and Tinsley, but eventually the Tru Warier had no true allies. "It was Ron against the world," says one player.


Still, until Dec. 11, the day Artest announced in an interview with the Indianapolis Star that he wanted to be traded, management spun furiously for him. It was Artest's passion that led him to overreact in games and practices, Pacers execs would say. Sure, the team might be affected by his outbursts, but Artest was "a guy who could walk into a restaurant and get into a conversation with anyone," Bird said last week.

Despite Artest's rap sheet the Kings weren't the only team that tried to get him. Far from it. Dealing Artest for Corey Maggette of the Los Angeles Clippers would have almost certainly gone down three weeks ago had Indiana not been scared off by recent tests on Maggette's left foot. According to a Pacers source, talks with the Denver Nuggets about Artest for Kenyon Martin were serious, but Indiana was unwilling to take on Martin's contract (five years remaining for $70.9 million). The New Orleans Hornets wanted Artest but offered only draft choices. Walsh and Bird had conversations with many other teams, including the Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, Minnesota Timberwolves and Golden State Warriors, but nothing ever came close to being cemented. Eventually, only the Kings, who are trapped in their own going-nowhere nightmare, had enough to get it done, offering a player that Bird had apparently wanted before he became reseduced by the beguiling Warier. "We made a mistake, obviously," says Bird. "When you're in the business of figuring out what's best for a team, you can't fall in love."

So now Indy's spotlight is on Stojakovic, who is in some ways the anti-Artest: shy, modest, congenitally unable to foment discontent. Though the way he found out about the trade angered him -- Kings owners Joe and Gavin Maloof spilled the beans on television before they told Stojakovic -- he seems genuinely glad to be in Indiana under the watchful eye of his hoops role model. "Being on Larry's team," he said last Friday, "is kind of like a dream." Stojakovic, 28, can opt out of his contract at season's end, but Bird says, "I've been after this kid for two years, and I don't want him to be here two weeks."

Stojakovic will never be the defensive warrior Artest is, but he will have to improve his D to satisfy Carlisle, not to mention the hoops-savvy fans at Conseco. Since Indy plans to dust off some old Reggie Miller-type plays for him, Stojakovic will have ample opportunity to prove that his declining scoring average (from 24.2 points per game in '03-04 to 20.1 last season to 16.5 in 31 games through Sunday) resulted from nagging injuries (pinky, groin, back) and a Sacramento offense that turned from move the ball to move out of Bibby's way.

There are other issues for a team that was seventh in the East at week's end. With the arrival of Stojakovic, Carlisle will have to find minutes and shots for Granger and Jones. Tinsley's shot-clock-devouring, back-back-back-it-down style needs an overhaul. And with O'Neal out, it might be a good time for Jackson -- a sometimes delightful guy who occasionally stares absentmindedly into the stands during games, as he did on Friday during an abysmal 6-for-20 shooting performance -- to zone in instead of zoning out. Most important, the franchise will have to decide whether O'Neal is a franchise player or just a talented opening act who needs a headliner. Many around the league suspect the latter.

The one certainty is that, for now, all is quieter on the Conseco front. "Ron was a funny dude, and we'll miss some of that," says backup point guard Anthony Johnson. "But it was time for it to be over." Make that way past time, A.J.

Issue date: February 6, 2006
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#2
Unclebuck said:
"But it was time for it to be over." Make that way past time
Dude, its over. I believe the majority of Kings fans here are over it as well and are tired of his past being brought up again and again. He's got a clean slate, just as Peja does. Do you see any Kings fans on the Pacers board constantly reminding you how soft or heartless he was? Doubt it.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#5
I'm not saying to delete it, I just think the majority here are tired of these negative articles. We've got a new King and we've welcomed him, you've got a new Pacer, embrace him.



Kings113- Duh.......;)
 
#7
Whoa Whoa Whoa...this doofus says it's likely that Bibby and Artest will eventually lock horns?? I don't see that at all. Especially not if they start winning...winning makes Mike Bibby a happy man. Plus, he's not known for having many personal issues with players, even if we are talking about Ron Artest.

Other than that, the article was a bunch of retreaded stories. It's over, alright.

MOVING ON!
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
KingCookie said:
Whoa Whoa Whoa...this doofus says it's likely that Bibby and Artest will eventually lock horns?? I don't see that at all. Especially not if they start winning...winning makes Mike Bibby a happy man. Plus, he's not known for having many personal issues with players, even if we are talking about Ron Artest.

Other than that, the article was a bunch of retreaded stories. It's over, alright.

MOVING ON!
I could actually see a Bibby/Artest problem IF Bibby resists being shoved aside as the leader Otherwise, no. But there is that one little way it could go bad. For most of the last year Mike has on and off flirted with this being "his team". Hopefully he can step back in the face of a superior talent. Not anticipating problems, but not impossible. And the guy who wrote this article was obviously not a Bibby fan, so sensationalism aside he was clearly going to take the negative view.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
I honestly view Mike preferring the side kick role. He didn't really want to be the leader, it was more a case of the public, the media, etc. demanding that he step up... His reluctance was pretty obvious, despite saying the right things.

I've mentioned it in other threads, but I believe Mike will be perfectly happy to serve as the guy with ice water in his veins, the hired gun who serves the Warrior King.

I also believe the current Kings scenario is just about as good as it could possibly get for Artest. He's clearly the center ring, the headliner, the one all the attention is focued on. And I believe he's already showing it's the situation in which he can flourish.
 
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A

artestG

Guest
#11
Bricklayer said:
I could actually see a Bibby/Artest problem IF Bibby resists being shoved aside as the leader Otherwise, no. But there is that one little way it could go bad. For most of the last year Mike has on and off flirted with this being "his team". Hopefully he can step back in the face of a superior talent. Not anticipating problems, but not impossible. And the guy who wrote this article was obviously not a Bibby fan, so sensationalism aside he was clearly going to take the negative view.
yo artest and bibby are homies they respect each other. bibby and artest are a defensive wreaking machine
 
A

artestG

Guest
#13
VF21 said:
I honestly view Mike preferring the side kick role. He didn't really want to be the leader, it was more a case of the public, the media, etc. demanding that he step up... His reluctance was pretty obvious, despite saying the right things.

I've mentioned it in other threads, but I believe Mike will be perfectly happy to serve as the guy with ice water in his veins, the hired gun who serves the Warrior King.

I also believe the current Kings scenario is just about as good as it could possibly get for Artest. He's clearly the center ring, the headliner, the one all the attention is focued on. And I believe he's already showing it's the situation in which he can flourish.
got that right artest leads this team, he is the leader, he will lead us to a championship, bibby and wells down with him they gonna wreak this league and make the wallace brothers look like little girls. im telling yall just wait tehy get the job done
 
#14
Bibby:" This is my team definitely...I'm vocal leader on and off court"...now, maloofs, fans, barkley, media, everybody, in hysterical euphoria, are promoting artest as new leader, franchise player, fish who saved Pittsburgh.... so now Biby should say:" Ups, my bad...I'm not leader...Ron is the man"
 
A

artestG

Guest
#15
starks said:
Bibby:" This is my team definitely...I'm vocal leader on and off court"...now, maloofs, fans, barkley, media, everybody, in hysterical euphoria, are promoting artest as new leader, franchise player, fish who saved Pittsburgh.... so now Biby should say:" Ups, my bad...I'm not leader...Ron is the man"
thats right ron is the leader this team has been missin, he will take control and bring us the championship
 
#17
thesanityannex said:
Dude, its over. I believe the majority of Kings fans here are over it as well and are tired of his past being brought up again and again. He's got a clean slate, just as Peja does. Do you see any Kings fans on the Pacers board constantly reminding you how soft or heartless he was? Doubt it.
wtf? This is new stuff, first time it has been brought up.
 
A

artestG

Guest
#18
thesanityannex said:
I'm not saying to delete it, I just think the majority here are tired of these negative articles. We've got a new King and we've welcomed him, you've got a new Pacer, embrace him.



Kings113- Duh.......;)
word man word

artest done nothing wrong he showed he aint gonna be roughed up by no detoit punks and he wants to be on a team which can win the championship. artest just has to silence the haters the same way he silences all da punks who dis him
 
#20
please try to realize something kings fans....most every pacer fan stated it was time to trade ron...either that or it was long past the time...

so theyre really looking for continuing validation of that...though most will say just the opposite, theyre hoping problems do develop as it will serve as validation that the pacers made the right move and they got the better end of the deal...

because really....if both players play up to their potential, is there any question who got the better end of the deal??? especially when u consider peja is up for a new deal while ron will have 2 more years at a bargain basement rate??? thats what most pacer fans are scared of....

so anything at all that can make them feel better about having traded him, they will probably trumpet....because deep down, while they wont admit it, and while peja is a fine player, this could turn out to be a pretty poor trade...even moreso with the possibility that peja could easily walk at the end of the season....

the pacers and most of their fans dont wanna deal with the prospect that they dumped ron for next to nothing, only to have him prosper somewhere else....thats why u will see most of the fans say its only a matter of time before he blows up....if they didnt, what else could they say????
 
#21
foretaz said:
please try to realize something kings fans....most every pacer fan stated it was time to trade ron...either that or it was long past the time...

so theyre really looking for continuing validation of that...though most will say just the opposite, theyre hoping problems do develop as it will serve as validation that the pacers made the right move and they got the better end of the deal...

because really....if both players play up to their potential, is there any question who got the better end of the deal??? especially when u consider peja is up for a new deal while ron will have 2 more years at a bargain basement rate??? thats what most pacer fans are scared of....

so anything at all that can make them feel better about having traded him, they will probably trumpet....because deep down, while they wont admit it, and while peja is a fine player, this could turn out to be a pretty poor trade...even moreso with the possibility that peja could easily walk at the end of the season....

the pacers and most of their fans dont wanna deal with the prospect that they dumped ron for next to nothing, only to have him prosper somewhere else....thats why u will see most of the fans say its only a matter of time before he blows up....if they didnt, what else could they say????
How could it be a bad trade? Ron wasn't even part of the team anymore. Unless we brought back somebody who was so bad that he'd be no help at all (Devean George :p ), then it'd be a bad deal....


Neither player was 'clicking' for either team. Seems like a match made in heaven.
 
#22
SoupIsGood said:
How could it be a bad trade? Ron wasn't even part of the team anymore. Unless we brought back somebody who was so bad that he'd be no help at all (Devean George :p ), then it'd be a bad deal....


Neither player was 'clicking' for either team. Seems like a match made in heaven.
well...for starters....peja walks while ron is performing at an allstar level in sacramento....

but this really isnt the place for this sorta thing...i agree with kings fans in this case...ron has had problems in his past....continuing to point them out, especially when its pacer fans doing it, just is inappropriate...just as it would be for a kings fan to go on a pacer forum and start bringing up negative things about pejas past....

doesnt matter....both players have been granted clean slates by their new teams....to go on the other teams message board to try and 'dirty' that slate seems out of line....to say things like its just a matter of time and what have u just wreaks of sour grapes....if someone is truly happy to have him gone, then they shouldnt feel compelled to go attempt to dirty the water elsewhere...
 
#23
foretaz said:
well...for starters....peja walks while ron is performing at an allstar level in sacramento....

but this really isnt the place for this sorta thing...i agree with kings fans in this case...ron has had problems in his past....continuing to point them out, especially when its pacer fans doing it, just is inappropriate...just as it would be for a kings fan to go on a pacer forum and start bringing up negative things about pejas past....

doesnt matter....both players have been granted clean slates by their new teams....to go on the other teams message board to try and 'dirty' that slate seems out of line....to say things like its just a matter of time and what have u just wreaks of sour grapes....if someone is truly happy to have him gone, then they shouldnt feel compelled to go attempt to dirty the water elsewhere...
Taz, speaking of Peja walkin, I have a question, I'll try to PM you soon here.

But who has said the rest of that stuff? I don't think that was UB's intent, he is a hardcore Ron fan.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#24
I don't think there was any bad intent with the posting of the article. No probs with me.

And I will go on record: Peja will not walk on the Pacers if Larry wants to keep him. That quote of Bird's is rather telling.
 
C

Coach

Guest
#25
Artest has been a King for about a week. In light of the countless number of disruptions he has created in the past several years, it might be wise to wait a little longer than seven days before declaring that he is a changed man.

We'll all know a lot more a year or so from now.
 
#26
SoupIsGood said:
Taz, speaking of Peja walkin, I have a question, I'll try to PM you soon here.

But who has said the rest of that stuff? I don't think that was UB's intent, he is a hardcore Ron fan.
i know it wasnt ub's intent....and u and ub are two of my favorite pacer posters...anywhere....but i also think the both of u kinda fall into the category of fans that felt like it was time to go, but are tormented inside by the reality of what could happen....

i just think it probably wouldve been much better if this article was posted in the nba forum, than in this forum....as its much more about the pacers and ron than it is about the kings and ron....i understand it from both perspectives....and pacer boards dont have nba forums....its just all together....but i cant help but think this might have been much better suited for the nba forum...
 
#28
It's all cool. I really appreciate Pacer fans hanging around and providing their perspective and input. It's only fair that both Ron and Pedja are give clean slate by both sets of fans, but writers (and radioboobs) need to earn their paycheck, too.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#29
artestG said:
thats right ron is the leader this team has been missin, he will take control and bring us the championship
hopefully not in the same way the he brought it to the pacers because they are still waiting for it
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#30
I don't think there's a Kings fan around who isn't well aware of Artest's past. But the main thing is...it is his past. Should we condemn him out of hand, not support him and pretty much poison the well?

Why not give him the benefit of a new start and see what happens? It's not like we have a choice. The trade was made; it's history. The Maloofs took the big gamble.

I, for one, was against it. I spoke my mind often about my fears and concerns and reasons I wouldn't do the trade. But now, that's all over. The trade was made and Artest is in the uniform of the team I love.

I am going to give him my full and total support until and unless he gives me reason not to. Anything else would be like shooting myself in the foot. If he fails, the team fails. I don't think any real Kings fan wants that...

As far as Peja goes, he isn't the type to just chase after a deal. Had things not gotten so contentious between he and Webber (with a very large part of the blame on that going to our local media vitriol dealers), he never would have asked for a trade. Things wouldn't have deterioriated IMHO to the point where he just wasn't happy here any longer.

Let Peja know he's appreciated. Give him a chance to play his game and he'll be with you to the end.

I, too, really enjoy the exchange between PacersDigest and KingsFans. I think we can both see each other's points of view. All I ask and recommend is that we not pee in each other's cereals. There ain't nuthin' else in the cupboard.

;)