Should the Kings rebuild?

[BawLa]

All of you people who say the Kings should rebuild are acting like you know we'll get Oden or another good player. You don't know that, draft picks are unknowns. For all you know you could get the next Joe Smith. It's not like a team with Artest, Martin, and Bibby on it is even going to be bad anyway. If you trade away your frontcourt and those other guys you're just going to be like 10th, 11th, or 12th. Not bad enough to get one of the top prospects but not good enough to make the playoffs or actually do something.

This team is basically one trade for a post defender/shotblocker away from contention. For all we know Petrie is just waiting to see who he can get before the deadline. It's not like you even know how good of a coach you have yet, it's not like you've seen a full season of Artest yet, it's not like you know what this team can do for a whole season. You guys act like for sure you can pull a PHX/Dallas/Miami. Miami had Wade but they didn't get really good until they traded for Shaq. Phoenix didn't get good until they got Nash.
...

Totally agree. All of the Miami role players and DWade developed around Shaq. All of the Dallas role players developed around Dirk. And yes, all of the role players for Phoenix developed around Nash.

Now we need people to develop around Artest. Kevin is already on-board.

Every team needs a "will not be denied" type player. Also, it takes a skilled coach to help guide their team through the tough times. All of the successful teams have had this, however if you look at the Detroit team a couple years back, that was more of a team of leaders. Regardless, only time will tell if we have the right coach and roleplayers. And I have faith that GP will do the best he can.

 

[kingsfan101]

Oh yes it does -- see the current NBA champions for a prime example.

Heat is not a typical example. They endured two seasons of 36 and 25 wins. Got incredibly lucky at landing Wade at No. 4. Even this would have been adequate with Shaq. And don't forget Zo and Payton who played virtually for free.

The only decent shot we have at rebuiling is to take the route Phoenix did. After Amare went down, they realized in some time that their season was not going anywhere, and decided to tank the season completely by trading Starbury to Knicks. Remember they still had Amare, Marion and Johnson though. Adding Nash, Q and a coaching upgrade pushed them at an elite level. Unfortunately for us, Isiah seems to have traded away his future assets as well. By next year, he might not be around for Petrie to pull a Colangelo on him.

 

[kingsfan101]

Got incredibly lucky at landing Wade at No. 4.

Apologies for the error. Wade was picked by Heat at 5 and not 4.

 

[Dave McNulla]

kings should rebuild around mike bibby. bonzi is good, but inconsistant. artest is good, but crazy. all the other big checks suck (miller, thomas, SAR, salmons). others can make good role players.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Hate to be bearer of reality but there is only three ways teams normally get better. The First getting a top lottery pick that pans out the examples of poor to middling teams that have vastly improved with in a couple years of bringing in a top 5 pick are too numerous to list here but the short list would include, Cleveland (Lebron), Denver (Mello), Miami (Wade), Lakers (Kobe), Boston (Bird), Chicago (Jordan) and so forth.

The second way teams improve is through singing TOP Free Agents, This list gets a little hazy but again looking at the Lakers signing of Shack, Pheonix singing of Nash, NJ's one good year after heaping tons of cash on Kidd. Again plenty of other examples abound.

The third and actaully LEAST common way teams GREATLY improve is through trades. This is where many Kings Fans become delusional thanks in part to fact that Petrie actually managed to trade tallent for improved tallent several times and built a contending team that way ONCE. But in general trades result in marginal improvements, shifts of tallent (trading a shooter for a rebounded) or cleared salary. It is actually pretty rare when you trade an aging star near retirement for a young 20-10-8 guy who has issues. The idea that the Kings can trade some expiring contracts and a bench player for a serious big man or a top back up pg is the kind of Grail quest that fans can never let go of.

Reality check: The days of the Kings being one or two players away from the championship are gone. The Fact that they are still in the play offs as 8-5 seeds makes it WORSE if what you want to do is win a Championship. If for not other reason than because it limits the avenues for VAST improvement by one third. As is the Kings have only two starters that are ranked as a top 5 in their position and one is the one uber-softie most of the posters on this board would like to see go -Brad. The other is the most unstable player in the NBA since Denis Rodman, which pretty much makes him #2 in the history of the NBA (Rodman fans might argue that Artest actually leads this dubious category given number of games missed due to suspension and number of suspensions) Our Bench is made up of one undersized, over paid PF who HATES being on the bench (unless of course Muss actaully Starts Kenny which is WORSE news) a couple of almost unplayable vets and some kids only one of who has ever seen any real NBA play time. I’m glad folks are optimistic about the new kids and I do wish them the best but folks I'd say it's a safe bet that the future of this franchise is not Williams, or Admundson. I'd love to be wrong but we are NOT talking about the kind of plan ANY GM would call Plan "A" here. The Truth is the Kings so far have taken a nice step back this season, there are too many question marks to be sure how bad it was and IF improved play by vets like Bibby, Miller, SAR and Kevin will help off set it by much. So how can this team be improved next season? By a 12th pick? By a player signed for Vet's min or the LLE? Or will most of the folks who oppose clearing the decks THIS season be advocating trading Hart, Price, Kenny and who ever for KG once again?

Truth is Kiki did it right when he inherited the dying Nuggs. He knew that relatively talented group of guys were NOT going to contend so he got rid as much contract as he could and in process positioned himself excellently in a GREAT draft year. (Remember they HAD to take Mello at number 2!) Now we can argue about the FA's he picked up and especially what he paid for them (Boozer and K-Mart) but given those bad signing we can also say that Denver COULD have rocketed to number one contenders in ONE off season. See Miami for similar moves (helped by Shack's trade demand).

Bottom Line: Next years draft is good, might even be great. Next year's FA offerings will be very good. But to be players in THAT game the Kings have to clear the books THIS season. Muddling through hoping for a number 5 or 6 seed and TRYING to get out of the first round then picking up 12-19 pick in draft and being at or near the cap just perpetuates the cycle of Fan Abuse.

 

[SacTownKid]

Some teams also improve with chemistry. At least that's what CWebb told me.

 

[BigWaxer]

I'd say they need to either **** or get off the pot.

My wife is always telling me that!!!

I am mixed about the rebuild. This slow version that we are currently doing is painfull at times to watch. I have waited long enough for a ring and my impatience is showing with that statement.

Don't think it matters much. A team with vets and young bucks is the best way to go IMO.

 

[kingsfan101]

Hate to be bearer of reality but there is only three ways teams normally get better. The First getting a top lottery pick that pans out the examples of poor to middling teams that have vastly improved with in a couple years of bringing in a top 5 pick are too numerous to list here but the short list would include, Cleveland (Lebron), Denver (Mello), Miami (Wade), Lakers (Kobe), Boston (Bird), Chicago (Jordan) and so forth.

The second way teams improve is through singing TOP Free Agents, This list gets a little hazy but again looking at the Lakers signing of Shack, Pheonix singing of Nash, NJ's one good year after heaping tons of cash on Kidd. Again plenty of other examples abound.

The third and actaully LEAST common way teams GREATLY improve is through trades. This is where many Kings Fans become delusional thanks in part to fact that Petrie actually managed to trade tallent for improved tallent several times and built a contending team that way ONCE. But in general trades result in marginal improvements, shifts of tallent (trading a shooter for a rebounded) or cleared salary. It is actually pretty rare when you trade an aging star near retirement for a young 20-10-8 guy who has issues. The idea that the Kings can trade some expiring contracts and a bench player for a serious big man or a top back up pg is the kind of Grail quest that fans can never let go of.

Reality check: The days of the Kings being one or two players away from the championship are gone. The Fact that they are still in the play offs as 8-5 seeds makes it WORSE if what you want to do is win a Championship. If for not other reason than because it limits the avenues for VAST improvement by one third. As is the Kings have only two starters that are ranked as a top 5 in their position and one is the one uber-softie most of the posters on this board would like to see go -Brad. The other is the most unstable player in the NBA since Denis Rodman, which pretty much makes him #2 in the history of the NBA (Rodman fans might argue that Artest actually leads this dubious category given number of games missed due to suspension and number of suspensions) Our Bench is made up of one undersized, over paid PF who HATES being on the bench (unless of course Muss actaully Starts Kenny which is WORSE news) a couple of almost unplayable vets and some kids only one of who has ever seen any real NBA play time. I’m glad folks are optimistic about the new kids and I do wish them the best but folks I'd say it's a safe bet that the future of this franchise is not Williams, or Admundson. I'd love to be wrong but we are NOT talking about the kind of plan ANY GM would call Plan "A" here. The Truth is the Kings so far have taken a nice step back this season, there are too many question marks to be sure how bad it was and IF improved play by vets like Bibby, Miller, SAR and Kevin will help off set it by much. So how can this team be improved next season? By a 12th pick? By a player signed for Vet's min or the LLE? Or will most of the folks who oppose clearing the decks THIS season be advocating trading Hart, Price, Kenny and who ever for KG once again?

Truth is Kiki did it right when he inherited the dying Nuggs. He knew that relatively talented group of guys were NOT going to contend so he got rid as much contract as he could and in process positioned himself excellently in a GREAT draft year. (Remember they HAD to take Mello at number 2!) Now we can argue about the FA's he picked up and especially what he paid for them (Boozer and K-Mart) but given those bad signing we can also say that Denver COULD have rocketed to number one contenders in ONE off season. See Miami for similar moves (helped by Shack's trade demand).

Bottom Line: Next years draft is good, might even be great. Next year's FA offerings will be very good. But to be players in THAT game the Kings have to clear the books THIS season. Muddling through hoping for a number 5 or 6 seed and TRYING to get out of the first round then picking up 12-19 pick in draft and being at or near the cap just perpetuates the cycle of Fan Abuse.

As much as I agree with the contents, for each of the above example, numerous counter examples exist. Let's consider some.
Drafts
Sure, some teams improved dramatically after drafting a top player. While others have continued to live in lottery land for long time.
Chicago: 1st draft pick in 99 (Brand), 4th, 7th in 2000 (Marcus Fizer, Chris Mihm: Yikes, even in a weak draft), 4th (Eddy Curry) in 2001, 2nd (Jay Will) in 2002, 7th (Kirk Hinrich) in 2003, 3rd, 7th (Ben Gordon, Loul Deng) in 2004.
Toronto: 4th in 98 (Jamison, converted to Vinsanity), 5th and 12th (Jon Bender and some guy never heard of) in 99, 4th (Bosh) in 2003, 8th (Rafael A.) in 2004, 7th (Charlie V.) in 2005 and 1st in 2006. They shall be lucky to make the playoffs in a weak conference.
Houston: 7th (Joel P.) in 2000, 13th, 18th and 23rd in 2001 (traded for Eddie Griffin), 1st in 2002 (Yao). They also got McGrady on the cheap. However, injuries have been big for them.
Wizards: 4th in 95 (Rasheed), 7th in 99 (Rip), 1st in 2001 (Kwame), 11th in 2002 (Jared Jeffries), 10th in 2003 (Jarvis Hayes)
Clippers, Warriors. Examples could go on.

Even in a deep draft (as next year's is projected to be), chances of getting a franchise level players are remote beyond no. 4 or 5 (one can get lucky like Suns with Amare at 9, but that is an exception though). We shall need to really suck to have a shot at that, and that can happen only if we trade away most of our guys (Other teams need to be willing to take our guys and give us draft picks/expiring contracts)

Cap space: Most top free agents sign with their team. Teams with cap, particularly rebuilding teams, usually overpay for second tier guys, and then go right back on the bubble of making playoffs, or not even that (Arenas, Joe Johnson). Rarely a top free agent, dissatisfied with the current team might decide to change, but even they usually want a sign and trade. For that again, we need assets.

Bottomline: If we want to rebuild, this is probably the best year, since next year's draft and free agent class is good. For us to have a decent shot at a top pick, we shall need to suck, and for that, we shall need to trade most of our vets for expiring contracts/draft picks. Even if Petrie manages to do that, this approach is too risky. We might have a better chance hoping one or more of our young guys (Kevin, Cisco, Douby) develop into good (hopefully great) players. Of course, if during the current season, KG gets dissatisfied and demands a trade, it shall help if we can pull it off. Kenny, Corliss, Potatoe, Hart and Price are not going to cut it though. We shall definitely to part with some productive vets and young guns.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Sure drafts are not a sure thing and of course signing FA's does usually result in over paying and frequentlly the top prospects resign at home (usually still getting too much money) but the point remains that these are still pretty much the ONLY way that teams improve dramatically. You draft smart, sign with some wisdom, pick up bargins for the role players and you are in buisness. But the srcaping by and hoping your second round pick "blows up" or that a magic trade will bring a great rebounding shot blocker to the team for spare parts is just unrealistic.

Oh and I do propose that the team trade away ALL it's big paper for expering contracts except Artest and possibly Bibby. and the net result of that would indeed be a teamtaht sucked so bad it could get a 1-5 pick AND have BIG buck available to sign at least one top tier player. Let the kids who play cheap get some time in this season and you have a rough draft of a winning squad next season... then you can start going after the "missing pieces" Right now the Kings have more missing than pieces.

 

[kingsfan101]

Oh and I do propose that the team trade away ALL it's big paper for expering contracts except Artest and possibly Bibby.

Yes, if it could be done. Also pray that Ron won't go and strangle Petrie and or Maloofs for it.

I would also keep Reef. He is a bargain at MLE.

 

[Bricklayer]

Amare was a #9. Dirk was a #9. Pierce a #10. McGrady was a #9. You can get guys at just below the legend level in the mid to late lottery. Heck, Kobe was a #13.

Of course that still might not do you any good. In the last 25 years the ONLY title team ever led by a player lower than #6 pick was the freak Pistons squad of a couple of years back. Otherwise its been Wde (#4) Shaq (#1) Duncan (#1) Jordan (#3) Hakeem (#1) Zeke (#2) Magic/Kareem (#1/#1) Bird (#6) and...well, I guess the 1983 Sixers might be an exception too led by two HOF ABAers (Moses, Erving). Of course we've got Reef (#3), so I guess we're set.

And you don't have to actually lose enough to nab a #9 by yourself, although that could be very useful. You have to position yourself so that you can combine assets to get a #9 from somebody else. To take your #16 pick or whatever, throw in an unwanted player, and get back the higher pick.

 

[Gary]

In a rebuild like Brick said I would keep....

Artest, Bibby, Martin, and MAYBE Garcia. The rest are gone (including SAR)

If somehow we can turn the rest of the guys into either a draft pick, or a star than I am all for it.

 

[kingsfan101]

Amare was a #9. Dirk was a #9. Pierce a #10. McGrady was a #9. You can get guys at just below the legend level in the mid to late lottery. Heck, Kobe was a #13.

Of course that still might not do you any good. In the last 25 years the ONLY title team ever led by a player lower than #6 pick was the freak Pistons squad of a couple of years back. Otherwise its been Wde (#4) Shaq (#1) Duncan (#1) Jordan (#3) Hakeem (#1) Zeke (#2) Magic/Kareem (#1/#1) Bird (#6) and...well, I guess the 1983 Sixers might be an exception too led by two HOF ABAers (Moses, Erving). Of course we've got Reef (#3), so I guess we're set.

And you don't have to actually lose enough to nab a #9 by yourself, although that could be very useful. You have to position yourself so that you can combine assets to get a #9 from somebody else. To take your #16 pick or whatever, throw in an unwanted player, and get back the higher pick.

And Bibby (#2).

But that's the point. Draft is not a sure thing. You may land a gem with a lower pick and a bust with higher. Such reversals shall still be exceptions though, despite their relative abundance.

 

[BMiller52]

You guys are saying we should throw away everything we have so we can suck for a year and get a good draft pick. But you know that you can't just do it for a year right? You can't say "well we'll suck for a year then pull out." It doesn't work that way.

 

[Bricklayer]

You guys are saying we should throw away everything we have so we can suck for a year and get a good draft pick. But you know that you can't just do it for a year right? You can't say "well we'll suck for a year then pull out." It doesn't work that way.

Tell that to the Spurs.

Or it might take 2 or 3, as it did for the Heat or Suns.

And if you were giving up something really great maybe you don't take the chance. Now when you are talking about giving up institutionalized mediocrity by offloading the very players who would need to be replaced anyway if you wanted to win a title, maybe you do. The easiest thing in the world to do is be too cowardly to take the chance at to be good.

 

[BMiller52]

Tell that to the Spurs.

Or it might take 2 or 3, as it did for the Heat or Suns.

And if you were giving up something really great maybe you don't take the chance. Now when you are talking about giving up institutionalized mediocrity by offloading the very players who would need to be replaced anyway if you wanted to win a title, maybe you do. The easiest thing in the world to do is be too cowardly to take the chance at to be good.

Well the spurs situation was special, DRob and some other guys all were injured basically that hole season.

Or it might take 7 years to rebuild like it did for the bulls, it could take an infinite ammount of years like the Hawks, it could take a while like the Blazers, you just don't know how long it'll take and you're just looking at the best case scenario.

IMO if we're going to rebuild with young players we should just trade some of our guys for a draft pick that will be good or something. Atleast that way you won't suck but you still get the good pick. I dunno maybe trade Mike for a younger PG who isn't as good and a high pick.

Thing is you don't know if you need to rebuild. There is a chance KG demands a trade this season and we can make a good/decent offer. There's a chance Kenyon Martin comes back 100% and we all know he wants out, he has a bad contract so it's not like you'd have to give anyone better than KT to get him. There's a chance the Pistons really miss Ben and they want to shed Rasheed Wallace's contract, we could offer Reef(younger and his contract is half of Sheeds, also consistently plays in the post), Corliss(expiring contract), and a pick. There's a chance other decent defenders and good shotblockers will be available. Petrie might as well wait to rebuild until he knows if he can get a player that can take us over the top.

You don't need a super star drafted by you to win the chip. I think we could make a team similar to the pistons if we got a healthy Kenyon Martin or Rasheed Wallace. The team that is known for hustling, defending, etc. If KG demanded out and it could happen we could make a decent offer and possibly have a starting line up of Salmons/Martin/Artest/Garnett/Miller. You end up with your 2 stars and you get your shotblocking there.

How about waiting until we see what opportunities are out there ok? You guys won't even give Musselman a chance to coach, you aren't giving this team a chance to play. Atleast see what you've got and if you're going to be good before you tear your team apart and rebuild.

 

[Warhawk]

Well the spurs situation was special, DRob and some other guys all were injured basically that hole season.

Or it might take 7 years to rebuild like it did for the bulls, it could take an infinite ammount of years like the Hawks, it could take a while like the Blazers, you just don't know how long it'll take and you're just looking at the best case scenario.

That's my problem with this speculation as well. Draft picks aren't slam dunks and I bet Petrie gets the green light to be more aggressive if Q&R pass. If they don't pass, in all likelyhood we don't have to worry about how well the Kings do anyways, since they will probably be in another city before too long.

The Maloofs want to win. I think they have seen this day coming and just want to know where they are going to be before they open the checkbook again for another serious run.

 

[TheJoker]

Brick, i'm not sure about throwing a year into the Dumpster just by hoping we land someone like Greg Oden. with the Arena issue we don't need this right now yeah the draft might be deep right now but i rather miss the playoffs while we try then be jerks like the Spurs.

 

[VF21]

That's my problem with this speculation as well. Draft picks aren't slam dunks and I bet Petrie gets the green light to be more aggressive if Q&R pass. If they don't pass, in all likelyhood we don't have to worry about how well the Kings do anyways, since they will probably be in another city before too long.

The Maloofs want to win. I think they have seen this day coming and just want to know where they are going to be before they open the checkbook again for another serious run.

WHY is it that people continue to predict the Kings will leave if Q&R don't pass? I honestly think that kind of comments turns people against the Maloofs because it sounds as though they really don't want to be here.

It took a couple of times for the deal to get done in San Antonio. Houston wasn't without problems.

The ONLY people who have commented about the Kings probably moving are media types who have to find something to stir the pot. There isn't any indication of it happening...at least not yet.

Yes, Arco needs to be replaced BUT it hasn't fallen down already. I think the handwriting is pretty clear that Stern and the league WANT the Kings to remain in Sacramento because it's such a good market. I'm not sure Q&R will pass, but I'd like to wait and see what happens before we continue the "they're gonna move!" scenario. To me, that has the markings for a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people say it enough and enough people come to believe it, then it might happen...

/end rant

 

[TheJoker]

Maloofs like Sacramento atleast from what i heard, i'm not sure why they can't just keep the team in Sacramento. we have the best fans the loudest arena what more do we need? the only thing we want right now is a winning team. and the Maloofs are worried about the freaking Luxury Suite.

 

[Packt]

A straight up tank chasing the highest pick possible, I'll be okay with. Next summer is a draft class worth gambling on.

A, trade our best players for other middling players, who might or might not fit, I would not be down with. It comes down to the details, and the players involved.

 

[VF21]

Tanking a season is about the most deplorable thing a team can do, IMHO. And why would anyone bother to attend a game when they knew the team wasn't even going to try?

 

[TheJoker]

Tanking a season is about the most deplorable thing a team can do, IMHO. And why would anyone bother to attend a game when they knew the team wasn't even going to try?

To eat the delicious Pop-corn in Arco Arena .... but you have a good point the only people who will even watch the Kings play while they don't try are fans who are hoping they Tank.... i just don't see the Kings tankin at all i can see a fan protest if it were the case.
​

 

[HndsmCelt]

There is a BIG difference between "Tanking" a season and dumping tallented players with long contracts for a bunch of expiring paper and loosing despite the best efforts of the guys you get stuck with for the season.

The salery dump that coincides with a loosing season is aceptable and no discrace... siting starters in order to loose your way into the loto is a whole different story.

People focusing on the risk of the draft miss two main points. First letting go of players who have not and can not get you to the finals is not much risk despite the odds against landing a franchise player who MIGHT. More importantly is this: the MAIN foucs of a salery dump is not so much the loto as having the necessary capitol to land a top FA straight up instead of having to trade a valued pice for him. These TWO seperate criteria combine to make trading away players for expiring contracts a very wise and time tested stratagy for teams traped in mediocricty. The rareity is for a team to jump from middling to contending WITH OUT aquiring either a top FA or draft pick.

 

[Warhawk]

WHY is it that people continue to predict the Kings will leave if Q&R don't pass? I honestly think that kind of comments turns people against the Maloofs because it sounds as though they really don't want to be here.

It took a couple of times for the deal to get done in San Antonio. Houston wasn't without problems.

The ONLY people who have commented about the Kings probably moving are media types who have to find something to stir the pot. There isn't any indication of it happening...at least not yet.

Yes, Arco needs to be replaced BUT it hasn't fallen down already. I think the handwriting is pretty clear that Stern and the league WANT the Kings to remain in Sacramento because it's such a good market. I'm not sure Q&R will pass, but I'd like to wait and see what happens before we continue the "they're gonna move!" scenario. To me, that has the markings for a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people say it enough and enough people come to believe it, then it might happen...

/end rant

I don't think they want to leave at all, I just feel that after fighting for so long to get a deal done the opposition will be bolstered if the vote fails and the Kings may effectively feel "driven" out of town.

You can only stand and fight for so long before you just start feeling unwanted.

I, for one, have two "Yes on Q&R" ads prominantly displayed in my truck's back window and one by my front door and encourage everyone I talk to to vote for it. I want it to pass. I just think that at some point MS&E is going to have to look elsewhere if they don't get some serious help from the developer/government and the community, and soon. They've been fighting for this for years and I hope they will keep fighting even if it fails.

 

[VF21]

I don't think they want to leave at all, I just feel that after fighting for so long to get a deal done the opposition will be bolstered if the vote fails and the Kings may effectively feel "driven" out of town.

You can only stand and fight for so long before you just start feeling unwanted.

I, for one, have two "Yes on Q&R" ads prominantly displayed in my truck's back window and one by my front door and encourage everyone I talk to to vote for it. I want it to pass. I just think that at some point MS&E is going to have to look elsewhere if they don't get some serious help from the developer/government and the community, and soon. They've been fighting for this for years and I hope they will keep fighting even if it fails.

I'm sorry I sounded so rabid.

The ONLY thing I hate about living up here is that I'm not a registered voter in Sacramento County. I can't vote for Q&R, as much as I want to, and I feel helpless at times ...

 

[Packt]

Tanking a season is about the most deplorable thing a team can do, IMHO. And why would anyone bother to attend a game when they knew the team wasn't even going to try?

If you decide you're going to tank, you would've accepted, and taken into consideration fan support will drop. Take the short term hit, for the future; we do it all the time. Of course it will never happen. It will be sold as a rebuild and salary dump like HndsmCelt wrote. The concepts are the same, except one is done under the guise of "rebuilding". Both plans start you off losing in hopes for a more successful future.

 

[VF21]

We who do it all the time?

Sorry, Packt, but you're advocating intentionally losing games where fans have paid good money to see a game. That would NOT be acceptable.

Rebuilding is understandable; tanking a season is not. It's an insult to everything sports is supposed to stand for. And I would NOT support a team that would openly dump games just to get a better draft pick. It's sleazy and smarmy and makes me want to take a shower.

 

[Bricklayer]

And yet I know you were a fan of the Kings in 1990. And that after all was when we tried exactly the same tactic -- traded away the whole damn team for draft picks, 4 #1s actually, and decided to gamble on the future. Knew when we did it we would lose games, and a lot of them, in the short term. Hoped that in the end we would win more than we would ever have otherwise (of course we executed the plan incompetently).

Its about perspective, scope. Fans normally lack it, and even if you have it you have to trust that the frront office sticks to its guns. Successful franchises have to have it at some point. If you are a front office that thinks like a fan you become the New York Knicks -- too terrified to ever rebuild and have a bad season that you admit to and know is coming, so you wallow and shift around crappy assets in a feeble attempt to fool the fanbase.

ALL franchises try to win (possible exception of the Clippers). It is just a question of timing. You can be focused on making sure you win 40 every single year and never get any better. Or you can be focused on trying to win 60 in 3 years, and accept winning 30 the next few as the cost. You are still trying to win, in fact the latter team is the one really trying to WIN. The other one is just trying not to lose. You're just taking the longer view and trying to win big in the long run, rather than small in the short run. Neither the Spurs, nor their fans, lose a moment of sleep over having a horrible season back in '96 or '97 or whenever that was. They are too busy admiring all the rings on their fingers.

A potential "rebuild" for us at this point is moving 3, maybe 4, players. That is all it takes to tip the scale, grab a high pick, clear up a ton of capspace to sign a major free agent, probably grab a few other picks and prospects along the way. Its certainly a viable strategy from our current position, and one explicitly aimed at "winning", as in really WINNING.

P.S. and this "tanking" language inserted into this thread is inappropriate. The players ALWAYS try to win. The question is what is the front office trying to win, and when?

 

[Packt]

We who do it all the time?

I should've said, "In the real world, we do it all the time", meaning we accept short term losses, with hopes that in the long run, things turn out better.

To me, "tanking" and "rebuilding" is just semantics- the two go hand in hand. Either way, the front office has made clear and concise efforts to lose. In the best case scenario, we get to keep our own players and still chase a top pick, but I'm also fine with chasing a top pick and having to make a run at FA's.

Clearly the feathers of the league office will be ruffled if they think you're just throwing games. That's why now would be would be the time to do it, while maintaining some semblance of "trying", since we have a new coach and new system to hide under.

No matter how it comes about, I'm not going to fret about losing games if rebuilding is the goal. With support as good as it is a complete rebuild probably won't happen. Why take the chance on losing fan support when the status quo is good enough for most.