Should the Kings rebuild?

[BMiller52]

Well should they? Basically trade away every good vet for expirers, young players, and draft picks.

This team with Artest really hasn't had a chance to show what it can do yet but I see people saying "we have no chance at anything ever with a roster that closely resembles this so we should blow it up and we'll get to be the blazers!" The thing is, if you go into full rebuilding mode you also have to trade Artest because he won't waist his time on a team that has no shot at doing anything. It's not like you can just rebuild for one year and be all done, it takes years of sucking, being in the lotto, being a door mat, getting stomped on and obliterated, getting high draft picks because you are a BAD team and then you have to hope you did it right.

So yes or no?

 

[DocHolliday]

I thought that's what they've been in the process of doing the last few off seasons. Did I miss something?

 

[BMiller52]

I thought that's what they've been in the process of doing the last few off seasons. Did I miss something?

By rebuild I mean the "trade everyone away for young players, expiring contracts, and picks" type of rebuild.

 

[DocHolliday]

I'd rather rebuild slowly. Find and juggle pieces and stay competitive until eventually you find the right mix. I like that a lot better than throwing in the towel and trading away *everyone*, including some talented players. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and it's a bit overly reactionary in my book.

 

[SacTownKid]

No. Most teams would be lucky to be in the situation we are in. Just see this upcoming season how things go.

And speaking of rebuilding, what do you think the last 2+ years were exactly? And no DocHolliday you didn't miss anything. This is a completely new team full of some pretty damn good, YOUNG talent. We pretty much already did trade out old players for younger ones.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

we're already rebuilding. see all the youngsters we brought in?

 

[TheJoker]

Yes, it's time to rebuild.

 

[BMiller52]

Yes, it's time to rebuild.

Since different people have different definitions please explain which one you mean.

 

[TheJoker]

Trading you're best players for young talent.

 

[SacTownKid]

And pray that they become half the player the ones you're trading away are.

 

[moradi420]

why rebuild, were coming off a pretty good second half of last season, weve still got without a doubt top ten players at there position at the 1, 3, and 5. unless mussleman screws up, or bibby and miller cant adapt to a new system, it makes no sesne to rebuild.

 

[Warhawk]

I'd rather rebuild slowly. Find and juggle pieces and stay competitive until eventually you find the right mix. I like that a lot better than throwing in the towel and trading away *everyone*, including some talented players. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and it's a bit overly reactionary in my book.

Yep. We're already rebuilding. On the fly. And still in the PO every year so far.

Other than Corliss, Vitaly, and SAR, all the Kings players have 8 years or less experience, and 2 of those 3 are expiring contracts, IIRC. 8 players have 5 years experience or less. Over half the team is pretty young, and most of the rest are probably near their prime (age-wise).

 

[TheJoker]

If we are planning to do a major rebuild what does that mean for Mike Bibby and his future with the Kings?

 

[uolj]

I don't see "a lot of young talent" on this team and I'm not optimistic about the current team contending as is, but I don't think it is time to rebuild the way you are describing it. There are enough pieces here, especially with Artest, that you can attempt to build a team with him and a couple of the other solid players by continuing to make moves, especially if it includes trying to bring in another star.

I wouldn't be pissed if a full rebuild started now, but with Artest as a defensive anchor for the next couple years I'd prefer they make changes to what they've got.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Should they rebuild? Could really go either way at this point, but I'd say they need to either **** or get off the pot.

Do what it takes to bring in the necessary pieces to make this team work, or call it a loss and start over. The half-assed tinkering that's been going on for the last couple of seasons clearly isn't doing the trick.

 

[BawLa]

Well should they? Basically trade away every good vet for expirers, young players, and draft picks.

This team with Artest really hasn't had a chance to show what it can do yet but I see people saying "we have no chance at anything ever with a roster that closely resembles this so we should blow it up and we'll get to be the blazers!" The thing is, if you go into full rebuilding mode you also have to trade Artest because he won't waist his time on a team that has no shot at doing anything. It's not like you can just rebuild for one year and be all done, it takes years of sucking, being in the lotto, being a door mat, getting stomped on and obliterated, getting high draft picks because you are a BAD team and then you have to hope you did it right.

So yes or no?

Just like in Oldschool...

"I like you, but you're crazy."

 

[kingsfan101]

Well should they? Basically trade away every good vet for expirers, young players, and draft picks.

This team with Artest really hasn't had a chance to show what it can do yet but I see people saying "we have no chance at anything ever with a roster that closely resembles this so we should blow it up and we'll get to be the blazers!" The thing is, if you go into full rebuilding mode you also have to trade Artest because he won't waist his time on a team that has no shot at doing anything. It's not like you can just rebuild for one year and be all done, it takes years of sucking, being in the lotto, being a door mat, getting stomped on and obliterated, getting high draft picks because you are a BAD team and then you have to hope you did it right.

So yes or no?

I don't think this ever works. As far as I understand, every team that tried it in the recent past (Bulls, Celtics, Blazers now) has had a long period of extremely poor seasons, and after all this, they are not really in the elite status (Bulls are the closest, but look at some of their past seasons). Celtics would be lucky to be where we are in a few years.

The ideal is of course to have 1-2 franchise level players, and build around them with young guys and veterans who are ready to play for cheap in the hope of a ring (la Spurs, Heat, 03-04 Lakers). That is easier said than done though. One has to be very lucky to land such a player. Draft is usually the way to go, since teams that draft such guys, rarely lose them (due to the higher financial incentive they can give). Drafting high is no guarantee though (hello Kwame Brown). It is still possible to land such players via trades, but it is quite unlikely, particularly for a relatively small market franchise.

Remaining in the upper level of teams is likely to attract free agents though (like we were able to attract Brad Miller away from Utah, who were offering a similar contract, and more recently, John Salmons from Toronto. I am not debating the quality of these signings). Rebuilding is a viable option only when a very clear alternate plan seems possible (like Phoenix tanking 03-04 season).

 

[HndsmCelt]

I don't do polls, and I have made my feelings on this topic well known in numerous threads. At the start of this off season the Kings could have either used this season to retool and prepair to rebuild OR fix fix the big problems in the front line and find a hight quality back up PG and try again to make a serious run this season. The other option of course was to contenue to try to "rebuild on the fly".

Well it is obvious that the Kings managment decided to keep doing what they have been doing and therefore they can resonably expect to keep getting what they have been getting.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We are rebuilding... You seem to be asking if we should have a firesale on talent to completely start over. I don't think that really works in the NBA the way it does in some of the other professional leagues (MLB and NFL come to mind).

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water but I do think that we could miss the play offs but we are also a couple of really good trades away from being a contender.

We have a few "nice" pieces that can be packaged "nicely". I am of firm belief that we can rebuild while still being competative. Nothing ****s me off more than teams that delibarately tank.

 

[Bricklayer]

We are rebuilding... You seem to be asking if we should have a firesale on talent to completely start over. I don't think that really works in the NBA the way it does in some of the other professional leagues (MLB and NFL come to mind).

Oh yes it does -- see the current NBA champions for a prime example. But you have get lucky in the draft. Landing a megastud in the lottery though is how 90% of great teams are built. Its how the Mavs got Dirk, the Heat got Wade, the Suns got Amare + Marion, the Spurs got Duncan, the Cavs got LeBron etc.

The trick is to follow the current example of the Heat, the Suns, the Spurs, and to make it a quick, sharp dive to scoop up young talent and then pull out of it.


As an aside, the original poster here posed his question insuch a way so as to slant the poll -- he does not want to see a rebuild, so he slanted it to such drasticness that few could sign on for it either. I am going to ignore that artificial construction and say this:

Players that should go in a rebuild: Brad, SAR, Thomas
Players that should (and will) go regardless: Potapenko, Corliss, Hart, likely Woods
Player on the bubble: Bibby (and may depend on the contract)

Core player to keep: Artest (+ maybe Bibby)
Young guys to keep or swap for better young guys: Kevin, Cisco, Douby, Salmons, Price, Admunson, Williams

So in the end, Bibby question aside, a "full rebuild" is essentially talking about eliminating an admittedly problematic 3 man frontcourt of 30 yr old spare parts, and then a handful of useless vets with ending contracts who are going anyway. Hardly such an impossible undertaking if you just suck it up and do it. The main question in the whole thing just being whether the core you keep is Artest alone, or Artest + Bibby.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Should they rebuild? Could really go either way at this point, but I'd say they need to either **** or get off the pot.

Do what it takes to bring in the necessary pieces to make this team work, or call it a loss and start over. The half-assed tinkering that's been going on for the last couple of seasons clearly isn't doing the trick.

agreed

 

[sdballer]

Should they rebuild? Could really go either way at this point, but I'd say they need to either **** or get off the pot.

Do what it takes to bring in the necessary pieces to make this team work, or call it a loss and start over. The half-assed tinkering that's been going on for the last couple of seasons clearly isn't doing the trick.

Perfect answer. That's been my biggest frustration with this team. If you're not a title contender now, make the tweaks necessary to be one. If not, trade your high caliber players while they still have value for young talent to be a contender tomorrow.

 

[BawLa]

The team should rebuild when we have a losing season. Until then all you can do is retool and keep pushing.

 

[AriesMar27]

it would depend on how well mart, garcia, salmons and douby play... i would keep reef because of his smallish contract.... but everyone else could go... if we could trade bibby and artest for kg... i would do it... or preferably bibby and miller.... but then again, how far could kg take us without artest and bibby?

but that would depend on what kind of draft pick we get... if we cant draft a big that we need why trade the one we have?

how much longer will teams like miami and phoenix be elite teams? like the lakers and kings before them, not very long... when nash burns out in 2 years how good will that team be? they will still have amare, marion, diaw and barbosa... but will they be any good without nash? in 2 years shaq will be gone but what will wade, jwill and friends be like? same for the spurs...

in all honesty, our current team would be much better than theirs as is baring some huge injury to artest or bibby...

if the young players pan out as we all think they will....

salmons, douby, martin and garcia are a good start at a very versatile team... we would already have versatility and outside shooting taken care of. some defensive minded bigs would make them even better. a 4 with a low post game and a rebounding/shotblocking 5 would make this team pretty fun to watch... and possibly very competetive...

but it could also blow up in our faces.... atleast we are better off than the lakers...

 

[Big Cuz 15]

it would depend on how well mart, garcia, salmons and douby play... i would keep reef because of his smallish contract.... but everyone else could go... if we could trade bibby and artest for kg... i would do it... or preferably bibby and miller.... but then again, how far could kg take us without artest and bibby?

but that would depend on what kind of draft pick we get... if we cant draft a big that we need why trade the one we have?

how much longer will teams like miami and phoenix be elite teams? like the lakers and kings before them, not very long... when nash burns out in 2 years how good will that team be? they will still have amare, marion, diaw and barbosa... but will they be any good without nash? in 2 years shaq will be gone but what will wade, jwill and friends be like? same for the spurs...

in all honesty, our current team would be much better than theirs as is baring some huge injury to artest or bibby...

if the young players pan out as we all think they will....

salmons, douby, martin and garcia are a good start at a very versatile team... we would already have versatility and outside shooting taken care of. some defensive minded bigs would make them even better. a 4 with a low post game and a rebounding/shotblocking 5 would make this team pretty fun to watch... and possibly very competetive...

but it could also blow up in our faces.... atleast we are better off than the lakers...

i wouldn't trade artest to get KG. KG is in his 30s. He only has so much left in his tank. Artest is a lock to play on both ends of the floor and is very very good at his position. bibby, miller and SAR for KG anyday.


-The team should rebuild when we have a losing season. Until then all you can do is retool and keep pushing.

i disagree. if we're planning to rebuild, we should dump the big player contracts that aren't performing for us and suck it up for a year or two. there is a stud in this upcoming draft named oden. you get a player like that and your right back in the mix. give him a few years and you will be definitely contending every year for the next decade rather than retooling year after year looking for FA scraps since we're close to the cap or o-v-e-r.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Oh yes it does -- see the current NBA champions for a prime example. But you have get lucky in the draft. Landing a megastud in the lottery though is how 90% of great teams are built. Its how the Mavs got Dirk, the Heat got Wade, the Suns got Amare + Marion, the Spurs got Duncan, the Cavs got LeBron etc.

The trick is to follow the current example of the Heat, the Suns, the Spurs, and to make it a quick, sharp dive to scoop up young talent and then pull out of it.


As an aside, the original poster here posed his question insuch a way so as to slant the poll -- he does not want to see a rebuild, so he slanted it to such drasticness that few could sign on for it either. I am going to ignore that artificial construction and say this:

Players that should go in a rebuild: Brad, SAR, Thomas
Players that should (and will) go regardless: Potapenko, Corliss, Hart, likely Woods
Player on the bubble: Bibby (and may depend on the contract)

Core player to keep: Artest (+ maybe Bibby)
Young guys to keep or swap for better young guys: Kevin, Cisco, Douby, Salmons, Price, Admunson, Williams

So in the end, Bibby question aside, a "full rebuild" is essentially talking about eliminating an admittedly problematic 3 man frontcourt of 30 yr old spare parts, and then a handful of useless vets with ending contracts who are going anyway. Hardly such an impossible undertaking if you just suck it up and do it. The main question in the whole thing just being whether the core you keep is Artest alone, or Artest + Bibby.

Well you and I are of like mind on this which of course means they will crucify us side by side as heritics. I would not that Bibby is the BEST trade bait on the team and there for has the greatest potential to bring BACK a net gain in tallent. Martin and too a lesser degree Cisco have/has lots of potential yet to be developed and as low priced players really should be the LEAST expendable since most trades that would include them ore more likely to result in a net loss down the road puncuated by a Homer Simpson style "Doh!" and a slap on the head when/if they develop into full fledged stars.

Bottom line is the days of "picking up the missing piece(s)" is gone. Look in the reareview mirror, wave goodbye, then dry your tears and look at the NEXT stop on the map and PLAN how to get ther instead of dreaming aobut how to get there.

 

[BMiller52]

All of you people who say the Kings should rebuild are acting like you know we'll get Oden or another good player. You don't know that, draft picks are unknowns. For all you know you could get the next Joe Smith. It's not like a team with Artest, Martin, and Bibby on it is even going to be bad anyway. If you trade away your frontcourt and those other guys you're just going to be like 10th, 11th, or 12th. Not bad enough to get one of the top prospects but not good enough to make the playoffs or actually do something.

This team is basically one trade for a post defender/shotblocker away from contention. For all we know Petrie is just waiting to see who he can get before the deadline. It's not like you even know how good of a coach you have yet, it's not like you've seen a full season of Artest yet, it's not like you know what this team can do for a whole season. You guys act like for sure you can pull a PHX/Dallas/Miami. Miami had Wade but they didn't get really good until they traded for Shaq. Phoenix didn't get good until they got Nash.

You don't know if that will work. Denver did the cap room thing and sucked for a while. They had to overpay badly to get KMart to come. Melo's been good but they haven't gone anywhere or done anything yet. Portland tried rebuilding the way you put it and they got sucked into it, now they're 2-3 years away from making the playoffs and they've been downright awful for years. Chicago rebuilt after Jordan and they were awful for like 7 years. They got the high draft picks and cap room too. Now 7 years later they're hoping MAYBE they can do something after none of their high draft picks have materialized into "that guy". Boston tried doing it while keeping their star(basically what you wanted), they've got a lot of young talent but since they kept Pierce they haven't been bad enough to get the 1st pick or anything. Atlanta did what you want the Kings to do(rebuild with cap room and picks), they had to overpay badly for Joe Johnson and they still haven't gotten "that guy" even though they had the 2nd pick in the '05 draft. Nothing's materialized for the bobcats yet and yeah I realize they're an expansion team but they've had the cap room and the picks. They haven't gotten "that guy"(although Morrison may be similar) and they haven't had anyone to spend their cap room on.

Cap room doesn't usually get you a real good player anymore. All of those guys resign with their team since they're restricted so you're stuck drastically overpaying the 2nd tier free agents. It happened with Joe Johnson, it happened with Kenyon Martin, it happened with Peja, it happened with Larry Hughes, it happened with Zach Randolph, do I need to go on?

 

[Jerryaki]

^ the draft thing is true. so i guess the question becomes which path is easier to improve with, staying mediocre for many years somehow waiting for a trade or free agent pick-up, or bombing a season and rolling the dice on a draft pick.

 

[BMiller52]

^ the draft thing is true. so i guess the question becomes which path is easier to improve with, staying mediocre for many years somehow waiting for a trade or free agent pick-up, or bombing a season and rolling the dice on a draft pick.

The thing is if you're a good team you can't just choose to go to the lottery for a year and then be good again the next. To get to the lottery(the good part anyway) you have to trade away most of your good players. You can't just think "well if I plug Greg Oden into this team then we're contenders". You got to realize you'll be without most of your good players and assets.